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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> on 2008/12/09 19:26:09 UTC
Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Here's what we have:
* Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
* Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
* Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
* Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
don't change.
A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
converted over from).
I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
.project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 9-Dec-08, at 2:41 PM, Andy Levy wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Here's what we have:
>> ...
>> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
>> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
>> converted over from).
>> ...
>
> I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
> slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
> operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
> consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
More detail is definitely needed. One area where a dev 'fresh from
CVS' might think Subversion slower is on initial checkout on a non-
trivial working copy.
--Toby
>
> What's the definition of "much slower"?
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by "Bolstridge, Andrew" <an...@intergraph.com>.
LOL. If Microsoft really designed Windows to perform badly with Java,
they shot themselves in the foot when they "invented" .NET :-)
I think the primary culprit is additional services though - like
indexing and particularly virus scanning. (once our sysadmin set the
virus scanner to check every file, my build times were horrendous as it
scanned every .obj file everytime they were written to...)
It might be worthwhile filtering the .svn directories from your scanner,
and seeing if that keeps your 25% performance increase (if you have a
virus, the working copy file will be infected too and that'll be
flagged)
The only other thing I would do is to try running on a different
filesystem, even if it's just FAT32.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:32 PM
To: Taylor, Jonathan (PCLN-NW)
Cc: Bolstridge, Andrew; users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
[snip]
I also think Microsoft designed Windows so programs like Java would
run poorly. That way, the could mitigate the threat Java caused on
their desktop monopoly.
So, running a Java based application like Eclipse, and downloading
files from a server to a machine that's running an OS that wasn't
designed to be an efficient network OS. Then, add to that the fact
that every single file needs to be scanned and indexed by multiple
programs, you can see why you might have some performance issues with
Windows based machines.
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Taylor, Jonathan (PCLN-NW)
<Jo...@priceline.com> wrote:
> I've tried adjusting the NTFS options, disabling indexing, and turning
off
> real-time virus scanning. Of those, the only one that had a
noticeable
> speed improvement was turning off the virus scanning, which improved
> performance by about 25% on heavily I/O-intensive tasks such as svn
> checkout.
>
> But even with the improvements due to these configuration changes,
there was
> still a huge difference between Windows and either Linux or MacOS in
the svn
> checkout and svn switch tasks. The exact reason remains a mystery.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
JeremyP wrote:
>
>> I also think Microsoft designed Windows so programs like Java would
>> run poorly. That way, the could mitigate the threat Java caused on
>> their desktop monopoly.
>
> This is off topic, but I'm intrigued as to how you think that
> Microsoft could have designed an operating system that could recognise
> a particular class of program and sabotage its performance.
At least until recently, they simply used undocumented intefaces for
their own programs to give them an advantage over the worse-performing
documented versions and for things like office, they pre-load their own
shared libs into ram at boot time so everyone else looks worse. Last
year they released tens of thousands of pages of previously withheld
documentation and specifications though, so perhaps the practice no
longer stands.
> If Java
> runs poorly on Windows compared to other programs, it's because the
> design of the Java VM is bad (at least in the the context of the
> Windows environment).
Java was a bit more evil:
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-251401.html?tag=untagged
Microsoft originally sold 'something-like-java' that, if you used the
default settings, generated code that wasn't java, wasn't portable, and
made it look like everything but windows was broken.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
Bob Archer wrote:
>> For the case of Java, however, Microsoft was actually very friendly to
>> the technology (for awhile). Their Java compiler and VM for Windows
>> were the fastest around. But this was in the 1990s, and Microsoft's
>> attitude toward Java has changed considerably since then.
>
> IIRC Sun didn't want MS shipping a JVM... especially one superior to the
> one Sun shipped. Nor did they want MS shipping a Java IDE which is why
> J++ was dropped. Sun's complaint was that if you used J++ apps wouldn't
> be cross platform which was only true if you used the Windows API
> extensions.
Which, if that was the only version of something-like-java that you
used, you would use because they were on by default and you wouldn't
know until you tested on a different platform that it wasn't portable.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bob Archer <bo...@amsi.com>.
> For the case of Java, however, Microsoft was actually very friendly to
> the technology (for awhile). Their Java compiler and VM for Windows
> were the fastest around. But this was in the 1990s, and Microsoft's
> attitude toward Java has changed considerably since then.
IIRC Sun didn't want MS shipping a JVM... especially one superior to the
one Sun shipped. Nor did they want MS shipping a Java IDE which is why
J++ was dropped. Sun's complaint was that if you used J++ apps wouldn't
be cross platform which was only true if you used the Windows API
extensions.
But, if Java is slow or bad on Windows it is only Sun's fault and not
MS's.
BOb
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[OT] - Microsoft anticompetitive strategies - was Re:
Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 30-Jan-09, at 8:04 AM, Trevor Harmon wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2009, at 7:04 AM, Andy Levy wrote:
>
>> For some reason, somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall MS
>> getting caught doing exactly that - having an OS (it may have been as
>> far back as DOS) which intentionally ran certain programs slower than
>> the competing MS applications.
>
> Perhaps you're thinking of the legend of "DOS ain't done 'til Lotus
> won't run":
>
> http://www.proudlyserving.com/archives/2005/08/dos_aint_done_t.html
>
> Or the AARD code:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code
>
> For the case of Java, however, Microsoft was actually very friendly to
> the technology (for awhile).
They used a variation of "embrace, extend, extinguish" to try to kill
Java (and were successfully sued over it*). It's the same thing they
tried to do to HTML, using IE. All designed to achieve lock-in.
Silverlight is out of the same bag of tricks.
--T
* - http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
> Their Java compiler and VM for Windows
> were the fastest around. But this was in the 1990s, and Microsoft's
> attitude toward Java has changed considerably since then.
>
> Trevor
>
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Trevor Harmon <tr...@vocaro.com>.
On Jan 30, 2009, at 7:04 AM, Andy Levy wrote:
> For some reason, somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall MS
> getting caught doing exactly that - having an OS (it may have been as
> far back as DOS) which intentionally ran certain programs slower than
> the competing MS applications.
Perhaps you're thinking of the legend of "DOS ain't done 'til Lotus
won't run":
http://www.proudlyserving.com/archives/2005/08/dos_aint_done_t.html
Or the AARD code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code
For the case of Java, however, Microsoft was actually very friendly to
the technology (for awhile). Their Java compiler and VM for Windows
were the fastest around. But this was in the 1990s, and Microsoft's
attitude toward Java has changed considerably since then.
Trevor
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 03:39, JeremyP <je...@jeremyp.net> wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2009, at 17:31, David Weintraub wrote:
>
>>
>> I also think Microsoft designed Windows so programs like Java would
>> run poorly. That way, the could mitigate the threat Java caused on
>> their desktop monopoly.
>
> This is off topic, but I'm intrigued as to how you think that
> Microsoft could have designed an operating system that could recognise
> a particular class of program and sabotage its performance. If Java
> runs poorly on Windows compared to other programs, it's because the
> design of the Java VM is bad (at least in the the context of the
> Windows environment).
For some reason, somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall MS
getting caught doing exactly that - having an OS (it may have been as
far back as DOS) which intentionally ran certain programs slower than
the competing MS applications. I tried a few searches but didn't find
anything, so I could be misremembering.
Java I/O (or at least Tomcat's) does seem ludicrously slow on Windows
vs. other OSes. I always assumed it was Java not being optimized for
it on the platform, but why Sun would allow that when they're
constantly fighting the "Java is slow" perception is beyond me.
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by JeremyP <je...@jeremyp.net>.
On 29 Jan 2009, at 17:31, David Weintraub wrote:
>
> I also think Microsoft designed Windows so programs like Java would
> run poorly. That way, the could mitigate the threat Java caused on
> their desktop monopoly.
This is off topic, but I'm intrigued as to how you think that
Microsoft could have designed an operating system that could recognise
a particular class of program and sabotage its performance. If Java
runs poorly on Windows compared to other programs, it's because the
design of the Java VM is bad (at least in the the context of the
Windows environment).
>
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
There are certain design issues in the Windows kernel that aren't as
efficient networking wise as on Unix based systems.
Unix based systems were written from the ground up to be network
based. It was assumed that applications wouldn't live on your desktop
machine, or that your files would be stored there.
In fact, it was quite possible that the computer on your desk didn't
even have a hard drive (it was booted off a network partition). Or,
even that you actually had a computer. (It could have been a simple
X11 terminal).
Windows, on the other hand, was written for a system that was assumed
to be stand alone. Your files are on that box. You run applications on
that box. Maybe there would be some networking but only for a file
here or there, but most of the time, it was all on your local box.
So, part of the issue for Windows machines is that they simply aren't
as fast as networking as their Unix counterparts. It wasn't part of
their specs.
I also think Microsoft designed Windows so programs like Java would
run poorly. That way, the could mitigate the threat Java caused on
their desktop monopoly.
So, running a Java based application like Eclipse, and downloading
files from a server to a machine that's running an OS that wasn't
designed to be an efficient network OS. Then, add to that the fact
that every single file needs to be scanned and indexed by multiple
programs, you can see why you might have some performance issues with
Windows based machines.
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Taylor, Jonathan (PCLN-NW)
<Jo...@priceline.com> wrote:
> I've tried adjusting the NTFS options, disabling indexing, and turning off
> real-time virus scanning. Of those, the only one that had a noticeable
> speed improvement was turning off the virus scanning, which improved
> performance by about 25% on heavily I/O-intensive tasks such as svn
> checkout.
>
> But even with the improvements due to these configuration changes, there was
> still a huge difference between Windows and either Linux or MacOS in the svn
> checkout and svn switch tasks. The exact reason remains a mystery.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 28-Jan-09, at 1:09 PM, David Weintraub wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Toby Thain
> <to...@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
>> I assume you saw the 10-fold (or better) increase in speed that
>> Jonathan
>> Taylor measured?
>
> I don't want to say a 10-fold speed increase. That means instead of
> something taking 20 minutes, it takes two. We were using Eclipse too
> which is a Java app, and Java apps aren't as fast on Windows as Linux.
> I never really measured the difference.
> ... If
> you're using VisualStudio, you're pretty much stuck with Windows when
> using Subversion.
That depends. The compilers and toolchain runs fine under WINE (for
x86, ia64 and x86_64 targets. I think the .NET tools as well, but I
have no use for those). Eclipse on Linux makes a nice Win32 IDE.
--Toby
>
>>
>> I am sure that Reiser 3 would be even faster (if I recollect my own
>> experiences upgrading old RedHat systems to Gentoo+r3, I wouldn't be
>> surprised to see at least a further doubling of bulk working copy
>> operations
>> versus ext2/3).
>>
>> It strikes me that this information (that Linux/UNIX is 10-20x as
>> fast as
>> Windows when working with Subversion working copies) should be
>> mentioned
>> more prominently in the manual or FAQ. That factor must soon have
>> a tangible
>> effect on productivity.
>>
>> From other recent threads here it appears there are also substantial
>> performance benefits to serving from Linux/UNIX (in addition to
>> all the well
>> known reliability/maintainability benefits).
>>
>> --Toby
>>
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Weintraub
>>> qazwart@gmail.com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?
>>> dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=1063312
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail:
>>> [users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
> I assume you saw the 10-fold (or better) increase in speed that Jonathan
> Taylor measured?
I don't want to say a 10-fold speed increase. That means instead of
something taking 20 minutes, it takes two. We were using Eclipse too
which is a Java app, and Java apps aren't as fast on Windows as Linux.
I never really measured the difference.
However, it is absolutely obvious that Subversion is usually faster on
Linux than on Windows, and even MS junkies admit to that.
And, the Gnome desktop is pretty good substitute for the Windows
desktop. The only real "Windows" applications we use are MS Office,
Outlook, and MS Project. Open Office is a pretty good substitute for
MS Office. Because we are using Exchange 2003 still, we can use
Evolution, and we can use VirtualBox when we need to run MS Project.
Unfortunately, I understand that not everyone is in my position. If
you're using VisualStudio, you're pretty much stuck with Windows when
using Subversion.
>
> I am sure that Reiser 3 would be even faster (if I recollect my own
> experiences upgrading old RedHat systems to Gentoo+r3, I wouldn't be
> surprised to see at least a further doubling of bulk working copy operations
> versus ext2/3).
>
> It strikes me that this information (that Linux/UNIX is 10-20x as fast as
> Windows when working with Subversion working copies) should be mentioned
> more prominently in the manual or FAQ. That factor must soon have a tangible
> effect on productivity.
>
> From other recent threads here it appears there are also substantial
> performance benefits to serving from Linux/UNIX (in addition to all the well
> known reliability/maintainability benefits).
>
> --Toby
>
>
>>
>> --
>> David Weintraub
>> qazwart@gmail.com
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=1063312
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail:
>> [users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 28-Jan-09, at 9:49 AM, David Weintraub wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Bolstridge, Andrew
>> There are a couple of tricks to speed up NTFS.
>
> My favorite is to install Linux over the NTFS partition ;-).
>
> The major problem is Windows playing mucky-mucky on the Subversion
> files. Every time a new file is created, Window Virus scanners scan it
> for viruses. ...
>
> If you have Windows Indexing suddenly trying to index a few thousand
> new files, you'll have even more problems. ...
>
> If possible, turn off virus scanning and Indexing on the directories
> where you do your checkouts.
>
> Fortunately, I was in the position where my development system didn't
> need Windows on it. I was able to install Fedora and that really sped
> things up.
I assume you saw the 10-fold (or better) increase in speed that
Jonathan Taylor measured?
I am sure that Reiser 3 would be even faster (if I recollect my own
experiences upgrading old RedHat systems to Gentoo+r3, I wouldn't be
surprised to see at least a further doubling of bulk working copy
operations versus ext2/3).
It strikes me that this information (that Linux/UNIX is 10-20x as
fast as Windows when working with Subversion working copies) should
be mentioned more prominently in the manual or FAQ. That factor must
soon have a tangible effect on productivity.
From other recent threads here it appears there are also substantial
performance benefits to serving from Linux/UNIX (in addition to all
the well known reliability/maintainability benefits).
--Toby
>
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?
> dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=1063312
>
> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Jonathan Taylor <jo...@priceline.com>.
I've tried adjusting the NTFS options, disabling indexing, and turning off
real-time virus scanning. Of those, the only one that had a noticeable
speed improvement was turning off the virus scanning, which improved
performance by about 25% on heavily I/O-intensive tasks such as svn
checkout.
But even with the improvements due to these configuration changes, there was
still a huge difference between Windows and either Linux or MacOS in the svn
checkout and svn switch tasks. The exact reason remains a mystery.
On 1/28/09 9:49 AM, "David Weintraub" <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Bolstridge, Andrew
>> There are a couple of tricks to speed up NTFS.
>
> My favorite is to install Linux over the NTFS partition ;-).
>
> The major problem is Windows playing mucky-mucky on the Subversion
> files. Every time a new file is created, Window Virus scanners scan it
> for viruses. When you checkout a 1000 file repository, Subversion
> creates a .svn directory filled with all sorts of files, plus a
> duplicate of each file you checked out. And, each one gets scanned by
> the virus scanner. I've seen computers with two or three separate
> virus scanners operating on them. Seems like the company keeps getting
> a new anti-virus program, but forgets to uninstall the old ones.
>
> If you have Windows Indexing suddenly trying to index a few thousand
> new files, you'll have even more problems. Combine that with Google
> Desktop which also has to have a turn molesting your files, and you
> can see why Subversion can be slow on Windows.
>
> If possible, turn off virus scanning and Indexing on the directories
> where you do your checkouts.
>
> Fortunately, I was in the position where my development system didn't
> need Windows on it. I was able to install Fedora and that really sped
> things up.
>
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Bolstridge, Andrew
> There are a couple of tricks to speed up NTFS.
My favorite is to install Linux over the NTFS partition ;-).
The major problem is Windows playing mucky-mucky on the Subversion
files. Every time a new file is created, Window Virus scanners scan it
for viruses. When you checkout a 1000 file repository, Subversion
creates a .svn directory filled with all sorts of files, plus a
duplicate of each file you checked out. And, each one gets scanned by
the virus scanner. I've seen computers with two or three separate
virus scanners operating on them. Seems like the company keeps getting
a new anti-virus program, but forgets to uninstall the old ones.
If you have Windows Indexing suddenly trying to index a few thousand
new files, you'll have even more problems. Combine that with Google
Desktop which also has to have a turn molesting your files, and you
can see why Subversion can be slow on Windows.
If possible, turn off virus scanning and Indexing on the directories
where you do your checkouts.
Fortunately, I was in the position where my development system didn't
need Windows on it. I was able to install Fedora and that really sped
things up.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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RE: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by "Bolstridge, Andrew" <an...@intergraph.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Taylor [mailto:jonathan.taylor@priceline.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: RE: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
> So my suspicion is that this has something to do with the file system
itself rather than anything
> within the svn code base that can be optimized for Windows. But it
would sure be nice to find a
> way to get svn on our Windows machines to run faster (we have a lot of
them!), like a file-system-
> within-a-file-system trick or something similar.
There are a couple of tricks to speed up NTFS. I havn't seen them do
that much in the real world, but if you're benchmarking.....
Firstly, turn of 'update access time':
fsutil behavior set disablelastaccess 1
Turn off the 8.3 filename creation:
fsutil behavior set disable8dot3 1
Turn off all the "useful" windows services, like indexing, and make sure
you're not using compression (or encryption). Turn off system restore
for the partition too.
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RE: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Jonathan Taylor <jo...@priceline.com>.
Indeed, we have noticed the same thing here and done some controlled tests to verify it.
The tests were done on a medium-sized source tree from one of our projects. Including the additional files that svn creates in the working copy, the working copy consists of about 7300 files and 4600 folders.
A checkout of the working copy into an empty directory takes 1:19 (79 seconds) to run on a Lenovo T61 laptop running Windows XP. On the same laptop running Linux (with ext3), the same operation takes just 8 seconds. On a MacBook Pro it takes about 11 seconds.
However, I have noticed that it takes significantly longer just to un-zip an archive containing lots of small files and folders on a Windows machine. When I zipped up the working copy and then un-zipped it, it took more than a minute to un-zip on Windows and about 10 seconds on Linux.
So my suspicion is that this has something to do with the file system itself rather than anything within the svn code base that can be optimized for Windows. But it would sure be nice to find a way to get svn on our Windows machines to run faster (we have a lot of them!), like a file-system-within-a-file-system trick or something similar.
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by B Smith-Mannschott <bs...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:05 PM, B Smith-Mannschott
<bs...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Just a datapoint:
>
> In this scenario I'm checking out a single trunk over https from the
> central svn server at my place of work. The resulting working copy consists
> of 21'239 files and 6'129 directories. (This count includes the
> administrative stuff in the .svn directories.)
>
The resulting working copy consumes 481 MB on disk.
>
> The server is running svn 1.4.x. Both clients are running a 1.5.x client.
>
> svn -q co https://..../trunk the-trunk
>
> (1) Windows XP; P4 HT@3GHz; NTFS; Single 7200 RPM HDD; McAffee virus
> scanner active and scanning-on-access.
>
> checkout takes 10 minutes
>
> (2) Linux 2.6.24-22 32-bit (Ubuntu); Core2Duo @ 2.6GHz; EXT3; Dual 7200
> RPM HDD in RAID 1 (Which speeds up reads, but not writes); No virus scanner.
>
> checkout takes 1 minute
>
> Conclusion: My employer provided workstation sucks weasles for software
> development. Other tests have tended to indicate that much of the blame
> belongs to the antivirus software (and the operating system which makes it
> necessary).
>
> It is true and unfortunate that Subversion's working copy management
> requires a lot of file individual file-system operations. Clearly this is
> one area where Windows+NTFS+McAffee can't hold a candle to Linux.
>
> For those stuck on Windows, one can hope that the working copy rewrite will
> narrow the gap between Windows and Linux.
>
> --
// Ben Smith-Mannschott
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by B Smith-Mannschott <bs...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:05 PM, B Smith-Mannschott
<bs...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:07 AM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 23:00, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
>> > notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
>> > brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
>> > over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
>> > diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
>> > connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
>> >
>> > We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
>> > is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
>> >
>> > Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
>> > with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
>> > for Eclipse.
>>
>> Is it the network access & server that's slow, or is it local
>> performance? Remember that Subversion pulls everything down into a
>> temp directory in the .svn directory, then copies it to the "real"
>> location. So disk I/O can be a killer. Especially if you're running an
>> on-access virus scanner.
>>
>
> I can second this. At my job most developers work on Windows with a
> locked-down scan-on-access virus scanner that seems to be set to "paranoid".
> Checking out jars is especially painful.
>
> I develop mostly an a linux box I put together myself. Much more pleasant.
> Much faster.
>
Just a datapoint:
In this scenario I'm checking out a single trunk over https from the central
svn server at my place of work. The resulting working copy consists of
21'239 files and 6'129 directories. (This count includes the administrative
stuff in the .svn directories.)
The server is running svn 1.4.x. Both clients are running a 1.5.x client.
svn -q co https://..../trunk the-trunk
(1) Windows XP; P4 HT@3GHz; NTFS; Single 7200 RPM HDD; McAffee virus scanner
active and scanning-on-access.
checkout takes 10 minutes
(2) Linux 2.6.24-22 32-bit (Ubuntu); Core2Duo @ 2.6GHz; EXT3; Dual 7200 RPM
HDD in RAID 1 (Which speeds up reads, but not writes); No virus scanner.
checkout takes 1 minute
Conclusion: My employer provided workstation sucks weasles for software
development. Other tests have tended to indicate that much of the blame
belongs to the antivirus software (and the operating system which makes it
necessary).
It is true and unfortunate that Subversion's working copy management
requires a lot of file individual file-system operations. Clearly this is
one area where Windows+NTFS+McAffee can't hold a candle to Linux.
For those stuck on Windows, one can hope that the working copy rewrite will
narrow the gap between Windows and Linux.
// Ben
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by B Smith-Mannschott <bs...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:07 AM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 23:00, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
> > notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
> > brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
> > over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
> > diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
> > connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
> >
> > We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
> > is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
> >
> > Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
> > with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
> > for Eclipse.
>
> Is it the network access & server that's slow, or is it local
> performance? Remember that Subversion pulls everything down into a
> temp directory in the .svn directory, then copies it to the "real"
> location. So disk I/O can be a killer. Especially if you're running an
> on-access virus scanner.
>
I can second this. At my job most developers work on Windows with a
locked-down scan-on-access virus scanner that seems to be set to "paranoid".
Checking out jars is especially painful.
I develop mostly an a linux box I put together myself. Much more pleasant.
Much faster.
--
// Ben Smith-Mannschott
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 23:00, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
> notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
> brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
> over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
> diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
> connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
>
> We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
> is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
>
> Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
> with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
> for Eclipse.
Is it the network access & server that's slow, or is it local
performance? Remember that Subversion pulls everything down into a
temp directory in the .svn directory, then copies it to the "real"
location. So disk I/O can be a killer. Especially if you're running an
on-access virus scanner.
An anecdotal data point: after I upgraded my repositories to 1.5 (and
our clients as well; we're running Windows all around, so this is
TortoiseSVN), a co-worker told me that his SVN operations were
noticeably faster than before. I, OTOH, noticed little to no
improvement (same repositories), and in some cases maybe even a
performance degradation. His system is significantly better in I/O
performance than mine, in part due to a faster hard drive and in part
because my system desperately needs to be reimaged.
I've also noticed that Java disk I/O seems to be much slower on
Windows than other OSes.
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Here's what we have:
>>>
>>> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
>>> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
>>> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
>>> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
>>> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
>>> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
>>> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
>>> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
>>> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
>>> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
>>> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
>>> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
>>> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
>>> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
>>> don't change.
>>>
>>> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
>>> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
>>> converted over from).
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
>>> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
>>> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
>>> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
>>
>> I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
>> slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
>> operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
>> consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
>>
>> What's the definition of "much slower"? What would adding the .svn
>> folders as exceptions in .project accomplish (IOW, what will it do
>> that isn't being done now, and how do you think that would impact
>> performance)?
>>
>> I don't think a specific version will change things either way, other
>> than the notion that newer versions are generally all-around better
>> than older versions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
>
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 23:00, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
> notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
> brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
> over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
> diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
> connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
>
> We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
> is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
>
> Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
> with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
> for Eclipse.
Is it the network access & server that's slow, or is it local
performance? Remember that Subversion pulls everything down into a
temp directory in the .svn directory, then copies it to the "real"
location. So disk I/O can be a killer. Especially if you're running an
on-access virus scanner.
An anecdotal data point: after I upgraded my repositories to 1.5 (and
our clients as well; we're running Windows all around, so this is
TortoiseSVN), a co-worker told me that his SVN operations were
noticeably faster than before. I, OTOH, noticed little to no
improvement (same repositories), and in some cases maybe even a
performance degradation. His system is significantly better in I/O
performance than mine, in part due to a faster hard drive and in part
because my system desperately needs to be reimaged.
I've also noticed that Java disk I/O seems to be much slower on
Windows than other OSes.
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Here's what we have:
>>>
>>> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
>>> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
>>> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
>>> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
>>> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
>>> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
>>> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
>>> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
>>> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
>>> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
>>> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
>>> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
>>> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
>>> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
>>> don't change.
>>>
>>> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
>>> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
>>> converted over from).
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
>>> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
>>> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
>>> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
>>
>> I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
>> slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
>> operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
>> consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
>>
>> What's the definition of "much slower"? What would adding the .svn
>> folders as exceptions in .project accomplish (IOW, what will it do
>> that isn't being done now, and how do you think that would impact
>> performance)?
>>
>> I don't think a specific version will change things either way, other
>> than the notion that newer versions are generally all-around better
>> than older versions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
>
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:47, Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
>
> On 9-Dec-08, at 11:00 PM, David Weintraub wrote:
>
>> It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
>> notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
>> brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
>> over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
>> diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
>> connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
>
>
> I find it hard to believe that anyone with typical development patterns
> (not, for example, managing 20MB binary files) would have any problems with
> Subversion's speed. I never have, on dozens of projects and multi-GB
> repositories, often accessed internationally via VPN.
>
>>
>> We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
>> is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
>
> Not in any way that a remote user could ever notice! The remark is baseless.
I get the feeling that, since it's only a subset of developers (David
originally wrote "a couple of developers..." which implies to me that
the majority are not reporting issues), this is more about those
developers who are complaining resisting the change to Subversion
because they're set in their ways and not them having valid issues
with the system itself.
Or, maybe their systems are misconfigured.
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 9-Dec-08, at 11:00 PM, David Weintraub wrote:
> It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
> notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
> brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
> over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
> diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
> connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
I find it hard to believe that anyone with typical development
patterns (not, for example, managing 20MB binary files) would have
any problems with Subversion's speed. I never have, on dozens of
projects and multi-GB repositories, often accessed internationally
via VPN.
>
> We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
> is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
Not in any way that a remote user could ever notice! The remark is
baseless.
>
> Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
> with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
> for Eclipse.
I've used Subclipse for 4+ years, it's excellent.
--Toby
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 18:01, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual core
> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and running
> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>
> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about 10
> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
What do you get w/ Windows on the command line, to compare Linux vs.
Windows w/o Eclipse being a factor? Or, try Eclipse/Subclipse on Linux
to compare with Windows/Eclipse/Subclipse. Either way, it sounds like
you're making good progress against the claims that these developers
are making about SVN.
Is it possible to break the project down into smaller chunks to check
out? Granted, you can't *stop* the developers from checking out "too
much", but you can at least offer them alternatives to get things done
quicker.
OTOH, how frequently do they *really* need to be checking out a full
WC in the first place?
> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>
> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows XP/Eclipse/Subversion
> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you use
> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
> seem available on my installation)?
It's been so long since I set up Eclipse & Subversion that I've
forgotten what I'm using - probably whatever the default is. I haven't
had a chance yet to run a checkout w/ Eclipse & the command line for
my project to see if there's a significant difference.
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:34 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Andy Levy wrote:
>> Why would you have to license SVNKit? If you're a "consumer"
>> of it, or distributing an Open Source project that uses it,
>> it's Open Source. If you want to integrate it into a non-Open
>> Source application, then you have to license it.
>>
>> http://svnkit.com/licensing.html
>
> The license could be read in two ways:
>
> * If you have a proprietary commercial application, and you
> redistribute SVNKit with your application, you need to pay a licensing
> fee.
>
> * If you used SVNKit while developing your proprietary commercial
> application, you need to pay a licensing fee.
>
> I read it the second way because it doesn't make much sense to read it
> the first way for open source applications. Most open source licenses
> wouldn't allow the project to have a proprietary component like SVNKit
> to be distributed as part of the application.
>
> Besides, if the first example this was the case, how many licenses
> would TMate Software be selling? Only commercial proprietary
> applications that were written in Java and needed access to Subversion
> would have to pay a licensing fee. So, you are pretty much limiting it
> to Java based, proprietary IDEs.
You are reading their license incorrectly. Feel free to email
support@svnkit.com for clarification.
The intent of their license is basically that it is OK to use it in
open source applications, but they also offer a commercial license so
that people that want to embed SVN functionality in commercial
applications have to license it from them.
--
Thanks
Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Andy Levy wrote:
> Why would you have to license SVNKit? If you're a "consumer"
> of it, or distributing an Open Source project that uses it,
> it's Open Source. If you want to integrate it into a non-Open
> Source application, then you have to license it.
>
> http://svnkit.com/licensing.html
The license could be read in two ways:
* If you have a proprietary commercial application, and you
redistribute SVNKit with your application, you need to pay a licensing
fee.
* If you used SVNKit while developing your proprietary commercial
application, you need to pay a licensing fee.
I read it the second way because it doesn't make much sense to read it
the first way for open source applications. Most open source licenses
wouldn't allow the project to have a proprietary component like SVNKit
to be distributed as part of the application.
Besides, if the first example this was the case, how many licenses
would TMate Software be selling? Only commercial proprietary
applications that were written in Java and needed access to Subversion
would have to pay a licensing fee. So, you are pretty much limiting it
to Java based, proprietary IDEs.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:56, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
>> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
>> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
>> license SVNKit).
>
> Why would you have to license SVNKit? If you're a "consumer" of it, or
> distributing an Open Source project that uses it, it's Open Source. If
> you want to integrate it into a non-Open Source application, then you
> have to license it.
>
> http://svnkit.com/licensing.html
>
> I just checked; I'm using JavaHL, and it's the only option I have
> installed. I have Eclipse 3.4.1 and the current Subclipse installed. I
> can't complain about the performance but I'm sure my WCs & projects
> are much smaller than yours.
>
>> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
>> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
>> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers. Instead,
>> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
>>
>> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat, and
>> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He does
>> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
>> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual core
>>>> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
>>>> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and running
>>>> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>>>>
>>>> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
>>>> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about 10
>>>> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>>>>
>>>> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
>>>> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>>>>
>>>> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>>>> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you use
>>>> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
>>>> seem available on my installation)?
>>>
>>> I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This Wiki
>>> page explains how to get it working:
>>>
>>> http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>>>
>>> Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse does
>>> some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
>>> So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>>>
>>> For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works with Subclipse.
>>>
>>> http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mark Phippard
>>> http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> David Weintraub
>> qazwart@gmail.com
>>
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>> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=982891
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>>
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:56, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
> license SVNKit).
Why would you have to license SVNKit? If you're a "consumer" of it, or
distributing an Open Source project that uses it, it's Open Source. If
you want to integrate it into a non-Open Source application, then you
have to license it.
http://svnkit.com/licensing.html
I just checked; I'm using JavaHL, and it's the only option I have
installed. I have Eclipse 3.4.1 and the current Subclipse installed. I
can't complain about the performance but I'm sure my WCs & projects
are much smaller than yours.
> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers. Instead,
> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
>
> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat, and
> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He does
> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual core
>>> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
>>> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and running
>>> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>>>
>>> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
>>> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about 10
>>> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>>>
>>> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
>>> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>>>
>>> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>>> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you use
>>> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
>>> seem available on my installation)?
>>
>> I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This Wiki
>> page explains how to get it working:
>>
>> http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>>
>> Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse does
>> some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
>> So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>>
>> For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works with Subclipse.
>>
>> http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>>
>> --
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mark Phippard
>> http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=982891
>
> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
Evolution is a Linux only package and uses GNOME. The Exchange
interface is via the OWA (Outlook Web Access) which is very limited
and most larger corporate users don't support OWA.
I've never tried Evolution. If I reconfigure my machine as a Linux
system, I'll have to give it a try.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com> wrote:
> What about Evolution?
>
> http://projects.gnome.org/evolution/index.shtml
>
> I've heard about it... but never tried it.
>
> BOb
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:21 PM
>> To: Bob Archer
>> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
> users@subversion.tigris.org
>> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>>
>> The big problem with Windows is the anti-virus software which checks
>> each and every file copied onto the system from the network.
>>
>> There is no alternative to Exchange clients except Microsoft clients.
>> Our office has IMAP open which means I can use Thunderbird or even
>> Apple's Mail client. (I too have a Mac at home. It is a six year old
>> Mac Mini and it runs Eclipse faster than my Windows machine even
>> though it is running over the corporate VPN). Most corporations
>> wouldn't allow such access. Plus, this doesn't take care of the
>> corporate calendars under Exchange.
>>
>> I use Google's Calendar Sync to sync my Outlook calendar to a Google
>> Calendar. However, I need to keep Outlook as my default mail
>> application and I found I have to keep it open at all times.
>> Otherwise, the Google Sync process will have to open it.
>>
>> I'm trying to convince the Tech Service people to drop Exchange in
>> favor of Google Apps. No such luck.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
> wrote:
>> > This thread is drifting a bit off topic. But, I guess that happens.
>> >
>> > I actually bought a personal Mac to use at home to learn a new way
> of
>> > doing things. I never disliked Windows as much as I do now. But, it
> pays
>> > the bills. The Mac is so much faster and stable. Svn flies on it.
>> >
>> > I'm surprised, is there no Linux mail client that will connect to an
>> > exchange server? I know that you could run Open Office and deal with
> the
>> > MS Office documents.
>> >
>> > BOb
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:45 PM
>> >> To: Bob Archer
>> >> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
>> > users@subversion.tigris.org
>> >> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop
> for
>> >> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run
> on
>> >> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux
> version.
>> > ;)
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I left a Windows shop to get away from the Microsoft development
>> >> world. I feel for you guys. We were doing .NET development. What a
>> >> mess.
>> >>
>> >> I doubt that my company would abandon Exchange and Microsoft Office
>> >> because the corporate people all use it. However, one smart guy
>> >> reformatted his disk, downloaded Fedora and virtual box, and then
>> >> loaded up Windows as a VM.
>> >>
>> >> Now, he has access to the corporate desktop via Windows, yet he
> spends
>> >> most of his days in the Linux world. He has no performance issues
> with
>> >> his PC.
>> >>
>> >> I'm thinking of doing the same, and then encouraging all the other
>> >> developers to do the same.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop
> for
>> >> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run
> on
>> >> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux
> version.
>> > ;)
>> >> >
>> >> > Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements
>> > for
>> >> > the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to
> happen?
>> > Is
>> >> > this slated for 1.6 or later?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks... this has been a great thread.
>> >> >
>> >> > BOb
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
>> >> >> To: Mark Phippard
>> >> >> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to
> try
>> >> >> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make
> sure
>> >> >> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
>> >> >> license SVNKit).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
>> >> >> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
>> >> >> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers.
>> > Instead,
>> >> >> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with
> Eclipse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed
> RedHat,
>> > and
>> >> >> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He
>> > does
>> >> >> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook
> and
>> >> >> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard
> <ma...@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub
>> > <qa...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a
> dual
>> >> > core
>> >> >> >> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion
>> > via
>> >> >> >> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
>> >> > running
>> >> >> >> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about
> five.
>> >> >> >> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took
>> > about
>> >> > 10
>> >> >> >> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more
>> > memory
>> >> >> >> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
>> >> > XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>> >> >> >> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do
>> > you
>> >> > use
>> >> >> >> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which
>> > doesn't
>> >> >> >> seem available on my installation)?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred.
> This
>> >> > Wiki
>> >> >> > page explains how to get it working:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as
> Eclipse
>> >> > does
>> >> >> > some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and
>> > cached.
>> >> >> > So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This
> includes/works
>> >> > with
>> >> >> Subclipse.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Thanks
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Mark Phippard
>> >> >> > http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> David Weintraub
>> >> >> qazwart@gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageI
>> >> > d=
>> >> >> 982891
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
>> >> >> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --
>> >> David Weintraub
>> >> qazwart@gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> David Weintraub
>> qazwart@gmail.com
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Frank Gruman <fg...@verizon.net>.
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 15:32 -0500, Bob Archer wrote:
> What about Evolution?
>
> http://projects.gnome.org/evolution/index.shtml
>
> I've heard about it... but never tried it.
>
> BOb
Huh - this got WAAAAYYYYYYY off topic. But I can truly contribute to
this one...
Evolution's current Exchange connector uses the Outlook Web Access on
your corporate Exchange server up to Exchange2003. I used it this way
for years at my previous job. MS changed their web access protocols
with Exchange 2007(from a glorified webDav to some sick SharePoint-esque
type of beast).
The current Exchange connector will NOT connect to Exchange 2007. The
folks at Evolution are working on a MAPI solution that looked like it
was preparing for alpha stages.
http://www.go-evolution.org/MAPIProvider
btw - on the topic itself - ours isn't a huge repo, but our Windows
times are not that different from the Linux ones. In our case, we have
set anti-virus exceptions on a specific folder that the code / working
copy goes into. This keeps the developers happy and IT happy.
Regards,
Frank
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>.
What about Evolution?
http://projects.gnome.org/evolution/index.shtml
I've heard about it... but never tried it.
BOb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:21 PM
> To: Bob Archer
> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>
> The big problem with Windows is the anti-virus software which checks
> each and every file copied onto the system from the network.
>
> There is no alternative to Exchange clients except Microsoft clients.
> Our office has IMAP open which means I can use Thunderbird or even
> Apple's Mail client. (I too have a Mac at home. It is a six year old
> Mac Mini and it runs Eclipse faster than my Windows machine even
> though it is running over the corporate VPN). Most corporations
> wouldn't allow such access. Plus, this doesn't take care of the
> corporate calendars under Exchange.
>
> I use Google's Calendar Sync to sync my Outlook calendar to a Google
> Calendar. However, I need to keep Outlook as my default mail
> application and I found I have to keep it open at all times.
> Otherwise, the Google Sync process will have to open it.
>
> I'm trying to convince the Tech Service people to drop Exchange in
> favor of Google Apps. No such luck.
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
wrote:
> > This thread is drifting a bit off topic. But, I guess that happens.
> >
> > I actually bought a personal Mac to use at home to learn a new way
of
> > doing things. I never disliked Windows as much as I do now. But, it
pays
> > the bills. The Mac is so much faster and stable. Svn flies on it.
> >
> > I'm surprised, is there no Linux mail client that will connect to an
> > exchange server? I know that you could run Open Office and deal with
the
> > MS Office documents.
> >
> > BOb
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:45 PM
> >> To: Bob Archer
> >> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
> > users@subversion.tigris.org
> >> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
> > wrote:
> >> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop
for
> >> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run
on
> >> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux
version.
> > ;)
> >> >
> >>
> >> I left a Windows shop to get away from the Microsoft development
> >> world. I feel for you guys. We were doing .NET development. What a
> >> mess.
> >>
> >> I doubt that my company would abandon Exchange and Microsoft Office
> >> because the corporate people all use it. However, one smart guy
> >> reformatted his disk, downloaded Fedora and virtual box, and then
> >> loaded up Windows as a VM.
> >>
> >> Now, he has access to the corporate desktop via Windows, yet he
spends
> >> most of his days in the Linux world. He has no performance issues
with
> >> his PC.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of doing the same, and then encouraging all the other
> >> developers to do the same.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
> > wrote:
> >> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop
for
> >> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run
on
> >> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux
version.
> > ;)
> >> >
> >> > Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements
> > for
> >> > the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to
happen?
> > Is
> >> > this slated for 1.6 or later?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks... this has been a great thread.
> >> >
> >> > BOb
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
> >> >> To: Mark Phippard
> >> >> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to
try
> >> >> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make
sure
> >> >> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
> >> >> license SVNKit).
> >> >>
> >> >> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
> >> >> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
> >> >> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers.
> > Instead,
> >> >> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with
Eclipse.
> >> >>
> >> >> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed
RedHat,
> > and
> >> >> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He
> > does
> >> >> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook
and
> >> >> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard
<ma...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub
> > <qa...@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a
dual
> >> > core
> >> >> >> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion
> > via
> >> >> >> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
> >> > running
> >> >> >> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about
five.
> >> >> >> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took
> > about
> >> > 10
> >> >> >> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more
> > memory
> >> >> >> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
> >> > XP/Eclipse/Subversion
> >> >> >> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do
> > you
> >> > use
> >> >> >> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which
> > doesn't
> >> >> >> seem available on my installation)?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred.
This
> >> > Wiki
> >> >> > page explains how to get it working:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as
Eclipse
> >> > does
> >> >> > some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and
> > cached.
> >> >> > So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This
includes/works
> >> > with
> >> >> Subclipse.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mark Phippard
> >> >> > http://markphip.blogspot.com/
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> --
> >> >> David Weintraub
> >> >> qazwart@gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageI
> >> > d=
> >> >> 982891
> >> >>
> >> >> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
> >> >> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> David Weintraub
> >> qazwart@gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Frank Gruman <fg...@verizon.net>.
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:21 -0500, Bob Archer wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bert Huijben [mailto:rhuijben@open.collab.net]
> > For optimal performance also make sure that TortoiseSVN is not
> watching
> > your
> > directories while you perform expensive operations.
>
> How?
>
> BOb
Settings -> Look and Feel -> Status Cache (assuming a version of TSVN
greater than 1.4) -
http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/tsvn_1.4_releasenotes.html
Also check out this link -
http://www.paraesthesia.com/archive/2007/09/26/optimize-tortoise-svn-cache-tsvncache.exe-disk-io.aspx
Regards,
Frank
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Frank Gruman <fg...@verizon.net>.
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:21 -0500, Bob Archer wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bert Huijben [mailto:rhuijben@open.collab.net]
> > For optimal performance also make sure that TortoiseSVN is not
> watching
> > your
> > directories while you perform expensive operations.
>
> How?
>
> BOb
Settings -> Look and Feel -> Status Cache (assuming a version of TSVN
greater than 1.4) -
http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/tsvn_1.4_releasenotes.html
Also check out this link -
http://www.paraesthesia.com/archive/2007/09/26/optimize-tortoise-svn-cache-tsvncache.exe-disk-io.aspx
Regards,
Frank
------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bert Huijben [mailto:rhuijben@open.collab.net]
> For optimal performance also make sure that TortoiseSVN is not
watching
> your
> directories while you perform expensive operations.
How?
BOb
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bert Huijben [mailto:rhuijben@open.collab.net]
> For optimal performance also make sure that TortoiseSVN is not
watching
> your
> directories while you perform expensive operations.
How?
BOb
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bert Huijben <rh...@open.collab.net>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> Sent: donderdag 11 december 2008 21:21
> To: Bob Archer
> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
> users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>
> The big problem with Windows is the anti-virus software which checks
> each and every file copied onto the system from the network.
For optimal performance also make sure that TortoiseSVN is not watching your
directories while you perform expensive operations.
The TSVNCache process has a file system monitor that scans 'open'
directories (and below that) for changes. This continuous scan can really
hurt your disk performance.. especially when you also have that anti-virus
software that watches the original changes and TSVNCache monitoring the
changes (by reading the files).
If you're comparing merge performance, please try with Subversion 1.5.4
instead of older versions. Some unneeded disk scanning issues were resolved
in that version.
Another noticeable speedup will be that the Subversion 1.6 libraries will
reduce delays when it detects a file system that has a better timestamp
precision than 1 second. (Subversion has to wait until the next timestamp
after many operations).
NTFS users will see this as performance improvement of the working copy, as
will users of other OSs with a modern file system. (ufs on FreeBSD, on
Linux: reiser4, ext4 and some others.)
Bert
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
The big problem with Windows is the anti-virus software which checks
each and every file copied onto the system from the network.
There is no alternative to Exchange clients except Microsoft clients.
Our office has IMAP open which means I can use Thunderbird or even
Apple's Mail client. (I too have a Mac at home. It is a six year old
Mac Mini and it runs Eclipse faster than my Windows machine even
though it is running over the corporate VPN). Most corporations
wouldn't allow such access. Plus, this doesn't take care of the
corporate calendars under Exchange.
I use Google's Calendar Sync to sync my Outlook calendar to a Google
Calendar. However, I need to keep Outlook as my default mail
application and I found I have to keep it open at all times.
Otherwise, the Google Sync process will have to open it.
I'm trying to convince the Tech Service people to drop Exchange in
favor of Google Apps. No such luck.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com> wrote:
> This thread is drifting a bit off topic. But, I guess that happens.
>
> I actually bought a personal Mac to use at home to learn a new way of
> doing things. I never disliked Windows as much as I do now. But, it pays
> the bills. The Mac is so much faster and stable. Svn flies on it.
>
> I'm surprised, is there no Linux mail client that will connect to an
> exchange server? I know that you could run Open Office and deal with the
> MS Office documents.
>
> BOb
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:45 PM
>> To: Bob Archer
>> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
> users@subversion.tigris.org
>> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
> wrote:
>> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
>> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
>> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version.
> ;)
>> >
>>
>> I left a Windows shop to get away from the Microsoft development
>> world. I feel for you guys. We were doing .NET development. What a
>> mess.
>>
>> I doubt that my company would abandon Exchange and Microsoft Office
>> because the corporate people all use it. However, one smart guy
>> reformatted his disk, downloaded Fedora and virtual box, and then
>> loaded up Windows as a VM.
>>
>> Now, he has access to the corporate desktop via Windows, yet he spends
>> most of his days in the Linux world. He has no performance issues with
>> his PC.
>>
>> I'm thinking of doing the same, and then encouraging all the other
>> developers to do the same.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
> wrote:
>> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
>> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
>> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version.
> ;)
>> >
>> > Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements
> for
>> > the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to happen?
> Is
>> > this slated for 1.6 or later?
>> >
>> > Thanks... this has been a great thread.
>> >
>> > BOb
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
>> >> To: Mark Phippard
>> >> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
>> >> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>> >>
>> >> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
>> >> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
>> >> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
>> >> license SVNKit).
>> >>
>> >> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
>> >> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
>> >> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers.
> Instead,
>> >> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
>> >>
>> >> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat,
> and
>> >> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He
> does
>> >> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
>> >> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub
> <qa...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual
>> > core
>> >> >> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion
> via
>> >> >> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
>> > running
>> >> >> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
>> >> >> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took
> about
>> > 10
>> >> >> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more
> memory
>> >> >> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
>> > XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>> >> >> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do
> you
>> > use
>> >> >> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which
> doesn't
>> >> >> seem available on my installation)?
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This
>> > Wiki
>> >> > page explains how to get it working:
>> >> >
>> >> > http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>> >> >
>> >> > Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse
>> > does
>> >> > some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and
> cached.
>> >> > So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>> >> >
>> >> > For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works
>> > with
>> >> Subclipse.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark Phippard
>> >> > http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --
>> >> David Weintraub
>> >> qazwart@gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageI
>> > d=
>> >> 982891
>> >>
>> >> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
>> >> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> David Weintraub
>> qazwart@gmail.com
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
I just talked to our one developer who was smart enough to reformat
his drive and put Linux on it. He's running Fedora and VirtualBox with
XP. I thought he was using Outlook running under VirtualBox, but he's
using Evolution and says it works great. He has full access to the
calendar and his Exchange email.
I'm getting a new system next week, and I'm going to try the same
setup. If it works, I'll encourage all the developers to try a similar
setup.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
>
> On 11-Dec-08, at 3:06 PM, Bob Archer wrote:
>
>> This thread is drifting a bit off topic. But, I guess that happens.
>>
>> I actually bought a personal Mac to use at home to learn a new way of
>> doing things. I never disliked Windows as much as I do now. But, it pays
>> the bills. The Mac is so much faster and stable. Svn flies on it.
>>
>> I'm surprised, is there no Linux mail client that will connect to an
>> exchange server? I know that you could run Open Office and deal with the
>> MS Office documents.
>
> Evolution is supposed to, but I admit I never got it to work.
>
> --Toby
>
>>
>> BOb
>>
>>
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 11-Dec-08, at 3:06 PM, Bob Archer wrote:
> This thread is drifting a bit off topic. But, I guess that happens.
>
> I actually bought a personal Mac to use at home to learn a new way of
> doing things. I never disliked Windows as much as I do now. But, it
> pays
> the bills. The Mac is so much faster and stable. Svn flies on it.
>
> I'm surprised, is there no Linux mail client that will connect to an
> exchange server? I know that you could run Open Office and deal
> with the
> MS Office documents.
Evolution is supposed to, but I admit I never got it to work.
--Toby
>
> BOb
>
>
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>.
This thread is drifting a bit off topic. But, I guess that happens.
I actually bought a personal Mac to use at home to learn a new way of
doing things. I never disliked Windows as much as I do now. But, it pays
the bills. The Mac is so much faster and stable. Svn flies on it.
I'm surprised, is there no Linux mail client that will connect to an
exchange server? I know that you could run Open Office and deal with the
MS Office documents.
BOb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:45 PM
> To: Bob Archer
> Cc: Mark Phippard; Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga;
users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
wrote:
> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version.
;)
> >
>
> I left a Windows shop to get away from the Microsoft development
> world. I feel for you guys. We were doing .NET development. What a
> mess.
>
> I doubt that my company would abandon Exchange and Microsoft Office
> because the corporate people all use it. However, one smart guy
> reformatted his disk, downloaded Fedora and virtual box, and then
> loaded up Windows as a VM.
>
> Now, he has access to the corporate desktop via Windows, yet he spends
> most of his days in the Linux world. He has no performance issues with
> his PC.
>
> I'm thinking of doing the same, and then encouraging all the other
> developers to do the same.
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>
wrote:
> > Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
> > ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
> > Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version.
;)
> >
> > Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements
for
> > the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to happen?
Is
> > this slated for 1.6 or later?
> >
> > Thanks... this has been a great thread.
> >
> > BOb
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
> >> To: Mark Phippard
> >> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
> >> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
> >>
> >> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
> >> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
> >> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
> >> license SVNKit).
> >>
> >> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
> >> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
> >> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers.
Instead,
> >> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
> >>
> >> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat,
and
> >> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He
does
> >> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
> >> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub
<qa...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual
> > core
> >> >> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion
via
> >> >> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
> > running
> >> >> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
> >> >>
> >> >> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
> >> >> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took
about
> > 10
> >> >> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
> >> >>
> >> >> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more
memory
> >> >> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
> >> >>
> >> >> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
> > XP/Eclipse/Subversion
> >> >> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do
you
> > use
> >> >> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which
doesn't
> >> >> seem available on my installation)?
> >> >
> >> > I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This
> > Wiki
> >> > page explains how to get it working:
> >> >
> >> > http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
> >> >
> >> > Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse
> > does
> >> > some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and
cached.
> >> > So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
> >> >
> >> > For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works
> > with
> >> Subclipse.
> >> >
> >> > http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Mark Phippard
> >> > http://markphip.blogspot.com/
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> David Weintraub
> >> qazwart@gmail.com
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >
http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageI
> > d=
> >> 982891
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
> >> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com> wrote:
> Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
> ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
> Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version. ;)
>
I left a Windows shop to get away from the Microsoft development
world. I feel for you guys. We were doing .NET development. What a
mess.
I doubt that my company would abandon Exchange and Microsoft Office
because the corporate people all use it. However, one smart guy
reformatted his disk, downloaded Fedora and virtual box, and then
loaded up Windows as a VM.
Now, he has access to the corporate desktop via Windows, yet he spends
most of his days in the Linux world. He has no performance issues with
his PC.
I'm thinking of doing the same, and then encouraging all the other
developers to do the same.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com> wrote:
> Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
> ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
> Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version. ;)
>
> Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements for
> the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to happen? Is
> this slated for 1.6 or later?
>
> Thanks... this has been a great thread.
>
> BOb
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
>> To: Mark Phippard
>> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
>> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>>
>> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
>> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
>> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
>> license SVNKit).
>>
>> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
>> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
>> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers. Instead,
>> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
>>
>> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat, and
>> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He does
>> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
>> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual
> core
>> >> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
>> >> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
> running
>> >> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>> >>
>> >> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
>> >> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about
> 10
>> >> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>> >>
>> >> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
>> >> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>> >>
>> >> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
> XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>> >> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you
> use
>> >> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
>> >> seem available on my installation)?
>> >
>> > I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This
> Wiki
>> > page explains how to get it working:
>> >
>> > http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>> >
>> > Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse
> does
>> > some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
>> > So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>> >
>> > For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works
> with
>> Subclipse.
>> >
>> > http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Mark Phippard
>> > http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> David Weintraub
>> qazwart@gmail.com
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=1065&dsMessageI
> d=
>> 982891
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
>> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 11-Dec-08, at 11:54 AM, Bob Archer wrote:
> Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
> ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
> Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version. ;)
>
The CLI compilers and toolchain runs fine under WINE...
--Toby
> Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements for
> the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to happen? Is
> this slated for 1.6 or later?
>
> Thanks... this has been a great thread.
>
> BOb
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
>> To: Mark Phippard
>> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
>> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>>
>> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
>> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
>> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
>> license SVNKit).
>>
>> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
>> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
>> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers. Instead,
>> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
>>
>> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat, and
>> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He does
>> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
>> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual
> core
>>>> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
>>>> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
> running
>>>> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>>>>
>>>> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
>>>> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about
> 10
>>>> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>>>>
>>>> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
>>>> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>>>>
>>>> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
> XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>>>> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you
> use
>>>> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
>>>> seem available on my installation)?
>>>
>>> I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This
> Wiki
>>> page explains how to get it working:
>>>
>>> http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>>>
>>> Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse
> does
>>> some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
>>> So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>>>
>>> For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works
> with
>> Subclipse.
>>>
>>> http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mark Phippard
>>> http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> David Weintraub
>> qazwart@gmail.com
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?
> dsForumId=1065&dsMessageI
> d=
>> 982891
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
>> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54, Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com> wrote:
> Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
> ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
> Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version. ;)
>
> Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements for
> the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to happen? Is
> this slated for 1.6 or later?
According to the roadmap [1], 1.6.0 is coming pretty soon (so if it's
not slated for 1.6 yet, it won't happen there), and "centralized"
metadata is "eventually."
1: http://subversion.tigris.org/roadmap.html
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RE: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Bob Archer <Bo...@amsi.com>.
Great idea if you can do it. "Unfortunately" a few of us develop for
ASP.Net using Visual Studio... which last I checked doesn't run on
Linux. Oh well, maybe the VS 2010 will have a native Linux version. ;)
Until then, it would be nice to see some performance improvements for
the windows stack. When it the new .svn structure going to happen? Is
this slated for 1.6 or later?
Thanks... this has been a great thread.
BOb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Weintraub [mailto:qazwart@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:56 AM
> To: Mark Phippard
> Cc: Toby Thain; Hilco Wijbenga; users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
>
> Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
> the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
> that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
> license SVNKit).
>
> We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
> Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
> provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers. Instead,
> we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
>
> One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat, and
> then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He does
> his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
> MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual
core
> >> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
> >> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and
running
> >> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
> >>
> >> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
> >> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about
10
> >> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
> >>
> >> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
> >> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
> >>
> >> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows
XP/Eclipse/Subversion
> >> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you
use
> >> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
> >> seem available on my installation)?
> >
> > I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This
Wiki
> > page explains how to get it working:
> >
> > http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
> >
> > Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse
does
> > some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
> > So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
> >
> > For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works
with
> Subclipse.
> >
> > http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
> >
> > --
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark Phippard
> > http://markphip.blogspot.com/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
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d=
> 982891
>
> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
Thanks! This is the information I was looking for. I'm going to try
the CollabNet Desktop -- Eclipse Edition. I also know to make sure
that developers are using JavaHL (especially since we'd have to
license SVNKit).
We are going to be redoing our infrastructure. If we get rid of
Microsoft Exchange and go with a more "Open" email and calendar
provider, we wouldn't need Windows desktops for developers. Instead,
we could have Linux machines which seem much faster with Eclipse.
One of our developers took his desktop machine, installed RedHat, and
then used an open VM to install Windows as a virtual machine. He does
his development in Linux and uses the Windows side for Outlook and
MS-Word. Maybe that's the way we should be going.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual core
>> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
>> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and running
>> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>>
>> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
>> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about 10
>> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>>
>> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
>> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>>
>> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows XP/Eclipse/Subversion
>> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you use
>> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
>> seem available on my installation)?
>
> I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This Wiki
> page explains how to get it working:
>
> http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
>
> Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse does
> some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
> So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
>
> For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works with Subclipse.
>
> http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
>
> --
> Thanks
>
> Mark Phippard
> http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual core
> Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
> Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and running
> SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
>
> A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
> However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about 10
> minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
>
> I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
> for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
>
> What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows XP/Eclipse/Subversion
> combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you use
> Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
> seem available on my installation)?
I'd say most users use it on Windows. JavaHL is preferred. This Wiki
page explains how to get it working:
http://subclipse.tigris.org/wiki/JavaHL
Subclipse has to do more than a command line checkout as Eclipse does
some stuff and the svn status of all items is calculated and cached.
So it is normal for it to be slower than the command line.
For merge you should use CollabNet Desktop. This includes/works with Subclipse.
http://desktop-eclipse.open.collab.net/
--
Thanks
Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
I'm attempting to get this running on my machine. This is a dual core
Pentium with a gigabyte of memory. Checking out in Subversion via
Eclipse Ganymede using the most recent copy of Subclipse and running
SVNkit took almost 13 minutes.
A similar task on Linux via the command line takes about five.
However, checking out from CVS was not much faster. It took about 10
minutes. This is a big project (probably too big).
I've tried a merge, and Eclipse crashed (probably needs more memory
for its Java process. I'm attempting to try again.
What I am trying to find out is who uses Windows XP/Eclipse/Subversion
combination and whether they also have performance issues. Do you use
Subversive or Subclipse? Do you use SVNKit or JavaHL (which doesn't
seem available on my installation)?
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Toby Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au>.
On 10-Dec-08, at 12:06 PM, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> 2008/12/9 David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>:
>> We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
>> is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
>
> One thing you might want to check is whether your LDAP authorisation
> is working optimally.
>
> At my previous place of employment the initial setup did authorisation
> *per file* instead of per command. This made access very slow. Your
> administrators should be able to tell by looking at the logs whether
> this is the case.
>
> "FSFS makes it so slow" is nonsense but we did notice a definite
> advantage to using Linux instead of Windows (Linux is faster),
> especially for svn co.
Ah! I've always used Linux or OS X as client, so I have nothing to
complain about :-)
The plaintiffs may consider upgrading ... :)
--Toby
>
> Cheers,
> Hilco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://subversion.tigris.org/ds/viewMessage.do?
> dsForumId=1065&dsMessageId=982320
>
> To unsubscribe from this discussion, e-mail: [users-
> unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org].
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Hilco Wijbenga <hi...@gmail.com>.
2008/12/9 David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>:
> We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
> is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
One thing you might want to check is whether your LDAP authorisation
is working optimally.
At my previous place of employment the initial setup did authorisation
*per file* instead of per command. This made access very slow. Your
administrators should be able to tell by looking at the logs whether
this is the case.
"FSFS makes it so slow" is nonsense but we did notice a definite
advantage to using Linux instead of Windows (Linux is faster),
especially for svn co.
Cheers,
Hilco
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
for Eclipse.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's what we have:
>>
>> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
>> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
>> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
>> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
>> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
>> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
>> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
>> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
>> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
>> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
>> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
>> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
>> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
>> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
>> don't change.
>>
>> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
>> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
>> converted over from).
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
>> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
>> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
>> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
>
> I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
> slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
> operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
> consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
>
> What's the definition of "much slower"? What would adding the .svn
> folders as exceptions in .project accomplish (IOW, what will it do
> that isn't being done now, and how do you think that would impact
> performance)?
>
> I don't think a specific version will change things either way, other
> than the notion that newer versions are generally all-around better
> than older versions.
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
It's mainly using Subversion for updating and checking out where they
notice it slower. I know that Subversion has a lot more data that's
brought over the network, and Windows is not good at transferring data
over the network, but it should be faster than CVS in updating,
diffing, revering, and other activities because it doesn't have to
connect to the server to fetch a lot of data.
We are using http:// w/ LDAP authorization, and FSFS. One programmer
is saying that FSFS is what makes it so slow.
Anyway, I was just curious whether or not this seemed to be an issue
with anyone. Or whether Subclipse or Subversive was a better plugin
for Eclipse.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's what we have:
>>
>> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
>> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
>> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
>> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
>> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
>> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
>> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
>> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
>> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
>> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
>> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
>> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
>> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
>> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
>> don't change.
>>
>> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
>> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
>> converted over from).
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
>> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
>> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
>> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
>
> I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
> slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
> operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
> consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
>
> What's the definition of "much slower"? What would adding the .svn
> folders as exceptions in .project accomplish (IOW, what will it do
> that isn't being done now, and how do you think that would impact
> performance)?
>
> I don't think a specific version will change things either way, other
> than the notion that newer versions are generally all-around better
> than older versions.
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's what we have:
>
> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
> don't change.
>
> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
> converted over from).
>
> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
What's the definition of "much slower"? What would adding the .svn
folders as exceptions in .project accomplish (IOW, what will it do
that isn't being done now, and how do you think that would impact
performance)?
I don't think a specific version will change things either way, other
than the notion that newer versions are generally all-around better
than older versions.
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 14:26, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's what we have:
>
> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
> don't change.
>
> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
> converted over from).
>
> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
I think more detail is needed. Is the perception that Subversion is
slowing down the application when running under JBoss? Or that
operations in Eclipse are slow? Or are all Subversion operations
consistently slower than their CVS counterparts?
What's the definition of "much slower"? What would adding the .svn
folders as exceptions in .project accomplish (IOW, what will it do
that isn't being done now, and how do you think that would impact
performance)?
I don't think a specific version will change things either way, other
than the notion that newer versions are generally all-around better
than older versions.
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Subversion/Eclipse Performance on Windows
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
Here's what I finally did: I got rid of Windows and installed Fedora
on my PC. Performance is much better, and other developers will be
following suit.
As developers, we spend very little time in Windows only applications,
and most of our time in cross-platform applications. We use
Subversion, Eclipse, and JBoss. The only real issue is access to our
mail, and we use Evolution as the mail client on our Linux boxes to
handle that. I understand this may not work for Exchange 2007, but it
works for Exchange 2003.
I am not sure exactly what was causing the performance problem. I
suspect that it is our anti-virus software which not only inspected
each file downloaded, but also checked the contents of every file that
Subversion created on our system. It could be that Java based
applications run much faster under Linux than Windows.
Whatever it is, we found that the problem seems to be with the OS and
not with Eclipse or Subversion.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:26 PM, David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's what we have:
>
> * Subversion is running on a Linux box under a fairly recent version
> of Redhat. This is not exactly a high performance box, but I don't
> think this is an issue. They use Subclipse as the plugin to allow
> Eclipse to talk to Subversion.
> * Our Subversion server is running release 1.5. However, it is still
> using Format 2 instead of Format 3 because of issues with viewvc.
> * Developers use Eclipse running on a Windows XP box. These boxes are
> Pentium Dual Core running around 2.8Ghz and have betwen 1Gb and 2Gb of
> memory. Diskspace is about 100Gb.
> * Our application runs under JBoss. It isn't a .NET application (which
> I know can cause performance issues). However, it really is a sort of
> sprawling application. There are lots of JAR files that have to be
> checked out (Most are probably not even needed, but that's another
> story altogether). However, once you do a checkout, the JAR files
> don't change.
>
> A couple of developers are complaining about very poor performance.
> They claim that Subversion is much slower than CVS (which we just
> converted over from).
>
> I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for improving
> performance. Would putting the .svn folders as exemptions in our
> .project file help? Would using a particular version of Eclipse or a
> particular version of Subclipse? What about Subversive?
>
> --
> David Weintraub
> qazwart@gmail.com
>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com