Scoring Issue

[aurora <si...@radways.co.uk>]

Hi there,

Recently we have switched over how our emails get sent. Emails now get sent
from our server at the office, they then get scanned and routed through the
ISP's mail server and then get forwarded on to the end recipients server.

My question is: Due to the configuration, if a customer runs SpamAssasin
will it detect this as spam because it thinks the message is now being
relayed?

Basically, we now get alot of customers calling us saying that they have not
received our email and it's because it has been held on their spam server
with a score of 6, even though its a plain text email! We have only been
getting these issues since we have switched the configuration over.

If SpamAssasin doesn't increase the score due to this extra hop/relay, I can
discard this as being a cause of the problem.

Thanks in advance
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Re: Scoring Issue

[aurora <si...@radways.co.uk>]

Anthony Peacock wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> aurora wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Duncan Hill wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 23 August 2006 10:19, aurora wrote:
>>>> Basically, we now get alot of customers calling us saying that they
>>>> have
>>>> not received our email and it's because it has been held on their spam
>>>> server with a score of 6, even though its a plain text email! We have
>>>> only
>>>> been getting these issues since we have switched the configuration
>>>> over.
>>>>
>>>> If SpamAssasin doesn't increase the score due to this extra hop/relay,
>>>> I
>>>> can discard this as being a cause of the problem.
>>> Relaying itself is a fundemental part of how e-mail works, and when I
>>> last 
>>> looked, SA doesn't hit you for doing that.
>>>
>>> As the customers who are spam-quarantining for the rules that hit - you
>>> may 
>>> find that a relay server is listed in a blacklist or similar.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> Hi Duncan, thanks for the quick response.
>> 
>> As I understand that relaying is a fundamental part of delivering an
>> email,
>> I'm guessing this configuration is not normal. Our SMTP server hits the
>> ISP's SMTP server which then hits the customers SMTP/POP server. In most
>> cases, your SMTP server will just find a direct route to the destination
>> server and only the sending server and receiving server will be involved
>> without a server being "in the middle", no?
>> 
>> Is it not classed as a form of open relaying, even though there is a form
>> of
>> authentication (IP check) on it? Both our external IP and the ISP's email
>> IP
>> are not listed on any blacklist (checked with dnsstuff.com).
>> 
>> Again, thanks for the quick reply, it's appreciated.
> 
> Your setup does not sound any different to many others.
> 
> We are shooting in the dark here, you need to ask your customers to 
> provide you with the reasons that they blocked your messages.  As they 
> are the ones that are blocking they are the only ones who can tell you 
> what the reasons are.
> 
> If they are using SpamAssassin and they can provide you with the list of 
> rules that hit your emails, then this list might be able to give you 
> advice on how to stop this happening in the future.  Without that we are 
> just guessing.
> 
> -- 
> Anthony Peacock
> CHIME, Royal Free & University College Medical School
> WWW:    http://www.chime.ucl.ac.uk/~rmhiajp/
> "If you have an apple and I have  an apple and we  exchange apples
> then you and I will still each have  one apple. But  if you have an
> idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us
> will have two ideas." -- George Bernard Shaw
> 
> 

Thanks for your help Duncan and Anthony, I shall discount this reason for
being the cause of the problem. I will try and get the scores from one of
our customers.

Have a good day!
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Re: Scoring Issue

[Anthony Peacock <a....@chime.ucl.ac.uk>]

Hi,

aurora wrote:
> 
> 
> Duncan Hill wrote:
>> On Wednesday 23 August 2006 10:19, aurora wrote:
>>> Basically, we now get alot of customers calling us saying that they have
>>> not received our email and it's because it has been held on their spam
>>> server with a score of 6, even though its a plain text email! We have
>>> only
>>> been getting these issues since we have switched the configuration over.
>>>
>>> If SpamAssasin doesn't increase the score due to this extra hop/relay, I
>>> can discard this as being a cause of the problem.
>> Relaying itself is a fundemental part of how e-mail works, and when I last 
>> looked, SA doesn't hit you for doing that.
>>
>> As the customers who are spam-quarantining for the rules that hit - you
>> may 
>> find that a relay server is listed in a blacklist or similar.
>>
>>
> 
> Hi Duncan, thanks for the quick response.
> 
> As I understand that relaying is a fundamental part of delivering an email,
> I'm guessing this configuration is not normal. Our SMTP server hits the
> ISP's SMTP server which then hits the customers SMTP/POP server. In most
> cases, your SMTP server will just find a direct route to the destination
> server and only the sending server and receiving server will be involved
> without a server being "in the middle", no?
> 
> Is it not classed as a form of open relaying, even though there is a form of
> authentication (IP check) on it? Both our external IP and the ISP's email IP
> are not listed on any blacklist (checked with dnsstuff.com).
> 
> Again, thanks for the quick reply, it's appreciated.

Your setup does not sound any different to many others.

We are shooting in the dark here, you need to ask your customers to 
provide you with the reasons that they blocked your messages.  As they 
are the ones that are blocking they are the only ones who can tell you 
what the reasons are.

If they are using SpamAssassin and they can provide you with the list of 
rules that hit your emails, then this list might be able to give you 
advice on how to stop this happening in the future.  Without that we are 
just guessing.

-- 
Anthony Peacock
CHIME, Royal Free & University College Medical School
WWW:    http://www.chime.ucl.ac.uk/~rmhiajp/
"If you have an apple and I have  an apple and we  exchange apples
then you and I will still each have  one apple. But  if you have an
idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us
will have two ideas." -- George Bernard Shaw

Re: Scoring Issue

[Duncan Hill <sa...@nacnud.force9.co.uk>]

On Wednesday 23 August 2006 10:37, aurora wrote:

> ISP's SMTP server which then hits the customers SMTP/POP server. In most
> cases, your SMTP server will just find a direct route to the destination
> server and only the sending server and receiving server will be involved
> without a server being "in the middle", no?

Eh - sort of.  Your SMTP relayhosts/smarthosts to your ISP.  The ISP server 
will usually do an MX query for the destination domain of the e-mail, and 
deliver to that server.  That server is not necessarily the post-box server - 
it may have to feed the mail to another server, and so on.

> Is it not classed as a form of open relaying, even though there is a form
> of authentication (IP check) on it? Both our external IP and the ISP's
> email IP are not listed on any blacklist (checked with dnsstuff.com).

No, smarthosting isn't open relaying.

While dnsstuff.com may not list them, I'd still ask the customer to get the 
rules that scored the e-mail high enough for quarantine.  Only by seeing the 
rule names will you be able to determine what characteristics of the e-mail 
are triggering the quarantine.

Re: Scoring Issue

[aurora <si...@radways.co.uk>]

Duncan Hill wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday 23 August 2006 10:19, aurora wrote:
>> Basically, we now get alot of customers calling us saying that they have
>> not received our email and it's because it has been held on their spam
>> server with a score of 6, even though its a plain text email! We have
>> only
>> been getting these issues since we have switched the configuration over.
>>
>> If SpamAssasin doesn't increase the score due to this extra hop/relay, I
>> can discard this as being a cause of the problem.
> 
> Relaying itself is a fundemental part of how e-mail works, and when I last 
> looked, SA doesn't hit you for doing that.
> 
> As the customers who are spam-quarantining for the rules that hit - you
> may 
> find that a relay server is listed in a blacklist or similar.
> 
> 

Hi Duncan, thanks for the quick response.

As I understand that relaying is a fundamental part of delivering an email,
I'm guessing this configuration is not normal. Our SMTP server hits the
ISP's SMTP server which then hits the customers SMTP/POP server. In most
cases, your SMTP server will just find a direct route to the destination
server and only the sending server and receiving server will be involved
without a server being "in the middle", no?

Is it not classed as a form of open relaying, even though there is a form of
authentication (IP check) on it? Both our external IP and the ISP's email IP
are not listed on any blacklist (checked with dnsstuff.com).

Again, thanks for the quick reply, it's appreciated.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Scoring-Issue-tf2151288.html#a5941127
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.

Re: Scoring Issue

[Duncan Hill <sa...@nacnud.force9.co.uk>]

On Wednesday 23 August 2006 10:19, aurora wrote:
> Basically, we now get alot of customers calling us saying that they have
> not received our email and it's because it has been held on their spam
> server with a score of 6, even though its a plain text email! We have only
> been getting these issues since we have switched the configuration over.
>
> If SpamAssasin doesn't increase the score due to this extra hop/relay, I
> can discard this as being a cause of the problem.

Relaying itself is a fundemental part of how e-mail works, and when I last 
looked, SA doesn't hit you for doing that.

As the customers who are spam-quarantining for the rules that hit - you may 
find that a relay server is listed in a blacklist or similar.