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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> on 2012/12/21 11:58:11 UTC
Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Hello fellows,
with Onami we are currently working to release a parent pom (only).
Its just related to maven and so our idea was to spread it via
repository.a.o only.
Now reading this:
"All releases must be archived on http://archive.apache.org/dist/.
An automated process adds releases to the archive about a day after
they first appear on to http://www.apache.org/dist/. Once a release is
placed underhttp://www.apache.org/dist/ it will automatically be
copied over to http://archive.apache.org/dist/ and held there
permanently, even after it is deleted from
http://www.apache.org/dist/."
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#mirroring
it seems we need to push it to /dist, even when its Maven only. Is
that correct? I am asking because I could not find the Apache parent
pom there (maybe I missed it) and it let me hope that we do not need
to commit it to /dist.
Thanks
Christian
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Given how the discussion on other closed lists is proceeding, as chair
of this committee, I feel compelled to contribute the following:
The current stated policy of the Foundation is that releases go onto
/dist. If you are using Maven tooling to make your releases, you
should first of all be sure to produce real, buildable, releases using
the profiles in the ASF POM, and secondly, you should copy those zip
files to /dist after a vote passes.
If this policy changes, I'll be quite sure to make this list aware of
it, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
In short, I misjudged the historical context of this particular issue.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Mohammad Nour El-Din
<no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I agree about how policy should change.
>
> But when it comes to apply on this case I believe we have to read the
> release rules carefully and we will see that we don't need policy change we
> just need to add more details and hence make it more clear
>
> The release rules assume you are release source code not just a pom file
> (s) which for sure people will not use it by downloading a dist from
> anywhere.
> They either will svn co the tag and build it locally or use the one
> deployed in Nexus
>
> It is just a different situation not an exception
>
> Christian and I already discussed that offline and kindly took the effort
> to bring it to the list :)
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3
> Apologies for any typos
> On Dec 21, 2012 5:12 PM, "Benson Margulies" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My belief is that the policy changed a long time ago but was not
>> properly edited into the document. If I didn't believe that, I'd be
>> taking a different approach here. My secondary belief is that the
>> existing document is an ambiguous writing job, and I'm as entitled to
>> my opinion as to the actual intention as anyone else with rights to
>> edit it.
>>
>> And, as such, I think that the right thing to do is to put up the
>> edits and see who complains.
>>
>> I am perfectly happy to set the example of boldly editing documents to
>> state the policy as I understand it, and then inviting people to
>> comment. I am in part inspired by the other thread about the
>> uselessness of DRAFT and suchlike markings.
>>
>> If you are so convinced that I am entirely changing, as opposed to
>> clarifying, a Foundation invariant, then you should say as much on the
>> thread over on infra. If you feel strongly enough, you should revert
>> my commit.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>
> wrote:
>> > Benson Margulies wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 07:01:03 -0500:
>> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marcel Offermans
>> >> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>> >> > Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states
> that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or
> change the policy.
>> >>
>> >> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
>> >
>> > The way to change a policy is to obtain consensus on the new policy, not
>> > to edit the web page that documents the existing policy --- particularly
>> > when someone just expressed an opinion in favour of the documented
> policy.
>> >
>> > You're setting a good counter-example to podlings.
>>
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Mohammad Nour El-Din <no...@gmail.com>.
Hi
I agree about how policy should change.
But when it comes to apply on this case I believe we have to read the
release rules carefully and we will see that we don't need policy change we
just need to add more details and hence make it more clear
The release rules assume you are release source code not just a pom file
(s) which for sure people will not use it by downloading a dist from
anywhere.
They either will svn co the tag and build it locally or use the one
deployed in Nexus
It is just a different situation not an exception
Christian and I already discussed that offline and kindly took the effort
to bring it to the list :)
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3
Apologies for any typos
On Dec 21, 2012 5:12 PM, "Benson Margulies" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My belief is that the policy changed a long time ago but was not
> properly edited into the document. If I didn't believe that, I'd be
> taking a different approach here. My secondary belief is that the
> existing document is an ambiguous writing job, and I'm as entitled to
> my opinion as to the actual intention as anyone else with rights to
> edit it.
>
> And, as such, I think that the right thing to do is to put up the
> edits and see who complains.
>
> I am perfectly happy to set the example of boldly editing documents to
> state the policy as I understand it, and then inviting people to
> comment. I am in part inspired by the other thread about the
> uselessness of DRAFT and suchlike markings.
>
> If you are so convinced that I am entirely changing, as opposed to
> clarifying, a Foundation invariant, then you should say as much on the
> thread over on infra. If you feel strongly enough, you should revert
> my commit.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>
wrote:
> > Benson Margulies wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 07:01:03 -0500:
> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marcel Offermans
> >> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> >> > Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states
that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or
change the policy.
> >>
> >> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
> >
> > The way to change a policy is to obtain consensus on the new policy, not
> > to edit the web page that documents the existing policy --- particularly
> > when someone just expressed an opinion in favour of the documented
policy.
> >
> > You're setting a good counter-example to podlings.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
Nobody should **EVER** revert another's commit.
That is a truly horrible suggestion. The original committer should
revise/revert. Nobody else.
-g
(sorry; tablet; abbreviated)
On Dec 21, 2012 8:12 AM, "Benson Margulies" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My belief is that the policy changed a long time ago but was not
> properly edited into the document. If I didn't believe that, I'd be
> taking a different approach here. My secondary belief is that the
> existing document is an ambiguous writing job, and I'm as entitled to
> my opinion as to the actual intention as anyone else with rights to
> edit it.
>
> And, as such, I think that the right thing to do is to put up the
> edits and see who complains.
>
> I am perfectly happy to set the example of boldly editing documents to
> state the policy as I understand it, and then inviting people to
> comment. I am in part inspired by the other thread about the
> uselessness of DRAFT and suchlike markings.
>
> If you are so convinced that I am entirely changing, as opposed to
> clarifying, a Foundation invariant, then you should say as much on the
> thread over on infra. If you feel strongly enough, you should revert
> my commit.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>
> wrote:
> > Benson Margulies wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 07:01:03 -0500:
> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marcel Offermans
> >> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> >> > Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states
> that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or
> change the policy.
> >>
> >> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
> >
> > The way to change a policy is to obtain consensus on the new policy, not
> > to edit the web page that documents the existing policy --- particularly
> > when someone just expressed an opinion in favour of the documented
> policy.
> >
> > You're setting a good counter-example to podlings.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
My belief is that the policy changed a long time ago but was not
properly edited into the document. If I didn't believe that, I'd be
taking a different approach here. My secondary belief is that the
existing document is an ambiguous writing job, and I'm as entitled to
my opinion as to the actual intention as anyone else with rights to
edit it.
And, as such, I think that the right thing to do is to put up the
edits and see who complains.
I am perfectly happy to set the example of boldly editing documents to
state the policy as I understand it, and then inviting people to
comment. I am in part inspired by the other thread about the
uselessness of DRAFT and suchlike markings.
If you are so convinced that I am entirely changing, as opposed to
clarifying, a Foundation invariant, then you should say as much on the
thread over on infra. If you feel strongly enough, you should revert
my commit.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> Benson Margulies wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 07:01:03 -0500:
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marcel Offermans
>> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>> > Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or change the policy.
>>
>> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
>
> The way to change a policy is to obtain consensus on the new policy, not
> to edit the web page that documents the existing policy --- particularly
> when someone just expressed an opinion in favour of the documented policy.
>
> You're setting a good counter-example to podlings.
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Benson Margulies wrote on Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 07:01:03 -0500:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marcel Offermans
> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> > Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or change the policy.
>
> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
The way to change a policy is to obtain consensus on the new policy, not
to edit the web page that documents the existing policy --- particularly
when someone just expressed an opinion in favour of the documented policy.
You're setting a good counter-example to podlings.
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Marcel Offermans
<ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>
> On Dec 21, 2012, at 13:52 , Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Martijn Dashorst
>> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
>>
>> While I agree that the page has a lot to say about putting releases on
>> /dist, I could not find any point in which it said, in so many words,
>> that /dist was required. I do, however, see how people would take that
>> implication.
>
> It does state that all releases must be archived on http://archive.apache.org/dist/ so I think that more or less implies that all releases must be put on /dist.
>
> I just feel that as soon as we start making exceptions, we will end up with many, and I really don't understand why this exception is necessary in the first place. In fact, I think it's a great benefit that all releases can be found in one single location, no exceptions.
>
>> So, I edited it to say the opposite for this case. I'm not pushing the
>> publish button; rather, I've started a thread on infra@ (which seems
>> to supervise this content) inviting people to tell me that I am wrong.
>> If I am still wearing my head tonight on the subject, I'll push the
>> publish button.
>
> I objected there as well, to me this is a big policy change, and one that I don't understand the reason of.
I think one thread of debate on this is enough, so I won't reply further here.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.
On Dec 21, 2012, at 13:52 , Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Martijn Dashorst
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
>
> While I agree that the page has a lot to say about putting releases on
> /dist, I could not find any point in which it said, in so many words,
> that /dist was required. I do, however, see how people would take that
> implication.
It does state that all releases must be archived on http://archive.apache.org/dist/ so I think that more or less implies that all releases must be put on /dist.
I just feel that as soon as we start making exceptions, we will end up with many, and I really don't understand why this exception is necessary in the first place. In fact, I think it's a great benefit that all releases can be found in one single location, no exceptions.
> So, I edited it to say the opposite for this case. I'm not pushing the
> publish button; rather, I've started a thread on infra@ (which seems
> to supervise this content) inviting people to tell me that I am wrong.
> If I am still wearing my head tonight on the subject, I'll push the
> publish button.
I objected there as well, to me this is a big policy change, and one that I don't understand the reason of.
Greetings, Marcel
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> You ought to leave it for 72 hours, a half day is not enough time for infra
> to respond.
Ross is completely right. Stay tuned, the discussion on whether I'm
right or not has already begun, and quite aside from his good counsel
of caution, could well go on for some time.
In the mean time, it can't hurt to copy that bundle from Onami to
/dist if you all want to get on with your lives.
>
> Ross
>
>
> On 21 December 2012 12:52, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Martijn Dashorst
>> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
>> >
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
>>
>> While I agree that the page has a lot to say about putting releases on
>> /dist, I could not find any point in which it said, in so many words,
>> that /dist was required. I do, however, see how people would take that
>> implication.
>>
>> So, I edited it to say the opposite for this case. I'm not pushing the
>> publish button; rather, I've started a thread on infra@ (which seems
>> to supervise this content) inviting people to tell me that I am wrong.
>> If I am still wearing my head tonight on the subject, I'll push the
>> publish button.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Martijn
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
You ought to leave it for 72 hours, a half day is not enough time for infra
to respond.
Ross
On 21 December 2012 12:52, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Martijn Dashorst
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
>
> While I agree that the page has a lot to say about putting releases on
> /dist, I could not find any point in which it said, in so many words,
> that /dist was required. I do, however, see how people would take that
> implication.
>
> So, I edited it to say the opposite for this case. I'm not pushing the
> publish button; rather, I've started a thread on infra@ (which seems
> to supervise this content) inviting people to tell me that I am wrong.
> If I am still wearing my head tonight on the subject, I'll push the
> publish button.
>
>
> >
> > Martijn
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
While I agree that the page has a lot to say about putting releases on
/dist, I could not find any point in which it said, in so many words,
that /dist was required. I do, however, see how people would take that
implication.
So, I edited it to say the opposite for this case. I'm not pushing the
publish button; rather, I've started a thread on infra@ (which seems
to supervise this content) inviting people to tell me that I am wrong.
If I am still wearing my head tonight on the subject, I'll push the
publish button.
>
> Martijn
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
Martijn
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Give me a URL where this policy is and I'll edit it.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Marcel Offermans
<ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or change the policy.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
> On Dec 21, 2012, at 12:53 , Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Maven PMC pushes no plugin releases nor parent poms to /dist. We
>> just leave them on repository.apache.org and of course on Maven
>> central. So, I think this is a pretty safe precedent.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>> <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello fellows,
>>>
>>> with Onami we are currently working to release a parent pom (only).
>>> Its just related to maven and so our idea was to spread it via
>>> repository.a.o only.
>>>
>>> Now reading this:
>>>
>>> "All releases must be archived on http://archive.apache.org/dist/.
>>>
>>> An automated process adds releases to the archive about a day after
>>> they first appear on to http://www.apache.org/dist/. Once a release is
>>> placed underhttp://www.apache.org/dist/ it will automatically be
>>> copied over to http://archive.apache.org/dist/ and held there
>>> permanently, even after it is deleted from
>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/."
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#mirroring
>>>
>>> it seems we need to push it to /dist, even when its Maven only. Is
>>> that correct? I am asking because I could not find the Apache parent
>>> pom there (maybe I missed it) and it let me hope that we do not need
>>> to commit it to /dist.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.
Well, I don't think it's fine. As long as our release policy states that all releases must be archived on /dist we should do exactly that. Or change the policy.
Greetings, Marcel
On Dec 21, 2012, at 12:53 , Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Maven PMC pushes no plugin releases nor parent poms to /dist. We
> just leave them on repository.apache.org and of course on Maven
> central. So, I think this is a pretty safe precedent.
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Christian Grobmeier
> <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello fellows,
>>
>> with Onami we are currently working to release a parent pom (only).
>> Its just related to maven and so our idea was to spread it via
>> repository.a.o only.
>>
>> Now reading this:
>>
>> "All releases must be archived on http://archive.apache.org/dist/.
>>
>> An automated process adds releases to the archive about a day after
>> they first appear on to http://www.apache.org/dist/. Once a release is
>> placed underhttp://www.apache.org/dist/ it will automatically be
>> copied over to http://archive.apache.org/dist/ and held there
>> permanently, even after it is deleted from
>> http://www.apache.org/dist/."
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#mirroring
>>
>> it seems we need to push it to /dist, even when its Maven only. Is
>> that correct? I am asking because I could not find the Apache parent
>> pom there (maybe I missed it) and it let me hope that we do not need
>> to commit it to /dist.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Christian
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: Do all releases need to go to /dist?
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
The Maven PMC pushes no plugin releases nor parent poms to /dist. We
just leave them on repository.apache.org and of course on Maven
central. So, I think this is a pretty safe precedent.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Christian Grobmeier
<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello fellows,
>
> with Onami we are currently working to release a parent pom (only).
> Its just related to maven and so our idea was to spread it via
> repository.a.o only.
>
> Now reading this:
>
> "All releases must be archived on http://archive.apache.org/dist/.
>
> An automated process adds releases to the archive about a day after
> they first appear on to http://www.apache.org/dist/. Once a release is
> placed underhttp://www.apache.org/dist/ it will automatically be
> copied over to http://archive.apache.org/dist/ and held there
> permanently, even after it is deleted from
> http://www.apache.org/dist/."
> http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#mirroring
>
> it seems we need to push it to /dist, even when its Maven only. Is
> that correct? I am asking because I could not find the Apache parent
> pom there (maybe I missed it) and it let me hope that we do not need
> to commit it to /dist.
>
> Thanks
> Christian
>
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