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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2003/02/21 16:02:34 UTC
[proposal] Removing the scratchpad
The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and forgotten.
A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
the project.
I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you want
the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by yourself
(like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system and
things will be much more organic at the end.
Thoughts?
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and forgotten.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
>
> Thoughts?
Big +1 on the principle, but with a practical question: what happens to
"scratchpad" code that belongs to the core and not to a given block (say
new/revised pipeline implementations)? Should we have a "core" block too?
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l.
http://www.pro-netics.com
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote, On 21/02/2003 16.02:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and forgotten.
>
> A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
> it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
> the project.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
>
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
> and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
>
> Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
> properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you want
> the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by yourself
> (like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
>
> This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system and
> things will be much more organic at the end.
>
> Thoughts?
It makes me think about Avalon Excalibur (*shiver*).
First of all, what do you want to achieve?
If you want code not to be forgotten, this IMO is not going to work.
Look at excalibur, it's basically all "blocks", or cornerstone. Our
scratchpad is more lively than those.
Also, how can we make trials with things that are not blocks? Branches?
There is only one thing that I see the need of: a block scratchpad. This
is a different thing that what you propose.
./src
./scratchpad
./blocks
./scratchpad-blocks
In this way we can keep scratchpad stuff packaged as blocks but still
*clearly* marked as scratchpad. I've seen that it's just too easy for
users to be confused by things that are in the same place. Do you know
what packages in Excalibur are alpha or not? I don't. A single
scratchpad space is less indivudualistic than many small projects.
I feel it's wrong to close a space like the scratchpad, and even more to
make a similar thing that is even more individualistic.
Hence -1
But I'd propose that we make the
./src
./scratchpad
./blocks
./scratchpad-blocks
And that code that is older than X months is wiped out from it, so that
cruft doesn't accumulate.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and
> forgotten.
>
> A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
> it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
> the project.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
>
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml'
> descriptor and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build
> system shows that.
>
> Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
> properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you
> want the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by
> yourself (like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
>
> This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system
> and things will be much more organic at the end.
>
> Thoughts?
Basically +1, but... considering that blocks are organized by
function/feature (database, fop, etc), what about experimental
development in an area where the block is stable ?
Should the block go back to alpha stage, or should we create an
alpha-xxx (e.g. alpha-database) block to hold unstable/experimental
features ? Of course, I'm in favor of the second solution, but what do
you think ?
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and
> forgotten.
>
> A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
> it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
> the project.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
+1
PS Any comment on
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=104577542213710&w=2 ?
Vadim
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml'
> descriptor and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build
> system shows that.
>
> Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
> properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you
> want the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by
> yourself (like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
>
> This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system
> and things will be much more organic at the end.
>
> Thoughts?
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and forgotten.
>
> A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
> it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
> the project.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
>
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
> and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
>
> Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
> properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you want
> the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by yourself
> (like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
>
> This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system and
> things will be much more organic at the end.
>
> Thoughts?
+1.
Pier
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
Le Vendredi, 21 fév 2003, à 16:02 Europe/Zurich, Stefano Mazzocchi a
écrit :
> ...I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
+1
> ...Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in
> the properties files and removed from the official distribution....
+1
-Bertrand
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
>>and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
>
>
> Is it that <project status="unstable"/> thinghy???
yes
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
> and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
Is it that <project status="unstable"/> thinghy???
Pier
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Giacomo Pati <gi...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and forgotten.
>
> A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
> it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
> the project.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
>
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
> and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
>
> Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
> properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you want
> the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by yourself
> (like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
>
> This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system and
> things will be much more organic at the end.
>
> Thoughts?
+1
Giacomo
Re: [proposal] Removing the scratchpad
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> The scratchpad was born as a place where things can be worked-on on
> alpha status, but it because a place where things are dumped and forgotten.
>
> A scratchpad is against the continuous integration concept. In short,
> it's an individualistic short-cut but doesn't help the community, nor
> the project.
>
> I propose to dump it and to move the code into 'alpha blocks'.
>
> Each block is currently described into the 'project-info.xml' descriptor
> and has an attribute that marks it 'alpha' and the build system shows that.
>
> Of course, that also means that those blocks are marked as such in the
> properties files and removed from the official distribution. if you want
> the experimental code, you have to turn it on one by one by yourself
> (like in compiling the linux kernel, so to speak)
>
> This will solve several issues we currently have in the build system and
> things will be much more organic at the end.
>
> Thoughts?
I'm not sure. Sometimes I need a playground for things, which are not
enough for a block, or you will first look if everything works fine. What
about a scratchpad block?
Stephan.