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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> on 2004/09/01 02:17:30 UTC
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> David Crossley wrote:
> >
> > In your output below, "com/ibm/crypto/provider/IBMJCE" is nothing
> > to do with either Forrest or Cocoon.
>
> [relevant output included below]
>
> i don't do java, so i don't know what the java messages mean. *i*
> certainly never typed anything with 'com/ibm/crypto' in it. not now,
> not when i installed the ibm jdk, and at no time in between. :-(
>
> my WAG is that my jdk version is too old. any thoughts on that?
> if that turns out to be the case, maybe a test for that could be
> added to one of the build files so it can say so rather than
> failing mysteriously and spectacularly like this. :-D
Well i did investigate your issue as thoroughly as i could.
Normally i use J2SDK 1.4 but i reverted to 1.3 to test this
and could not reproduce your issue.
Would you please do this:
* In the forrest.properties file uncomment the line
for "forrest.echo=true".
* Do 'forrest -v > log' to trap verbose output.
* Attach that file to the Forrest Issue tracker.
--David
> >> Now Cocoon will generate the rest ...
> >>
> >> Static site will be generated at:
> >> /home/coar/apache-incubator/build/site
> >>
> >> Note that there are various reasons for "build failed" messages.
> >> * Cocoon will report the status of each document:
> >> - in column 1: *=okay X=brokenLink ^=pageSkipped (see FAQ).
> >> * Even if only one link is broken, you will still get "failed".
> >> * Your site would still be generated, but some pages would be broken.
> >> * Please check the file:
> >> /home/coar/apache-incubator/build/tmp/brokenlinks.xml
> >> for any broken links in the generated site.
> >> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
> com/ibm/crypto/provider/IBMJCE (wrong name: org/apache/cocoon/Main)
>
>
> - --
> #ken P-)}
>
> Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
> Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
>
> "Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by thorsten <th...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
>
>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>
>>> David Crossley wrote:
>>>
>>>> However i see that the Derby page is a mess.
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
>>>>
>>>> This is because you are using the recent Forrest
>>>> but have not updated the configuration files.
>>>
>>>
>>> :-? Rather than that I _guess_ it's because the site is still using
>>> the old css... sites should still work ok with crust, or we have a
>>> problem...
>>
>>
>>
>> The Incubator CVS is still set up to use the old
>> Forrest-0.5.1 config. Yet some people there are trying
>> to use Forrest-0.6-dev which would need the various
>> upgrades done, e.g. tweaking skinconf.xml
>>
>> Or are you saying that default colours and stuff should
>> be automatically handled if they have not upgraded
>> their skinconf.xml ?
>
>
> It should AFAIK...
>
Yeah, but not really! I tested it last night with pelt:
1) no <colors/> will result in a weird color profile
2) no <color> will work fine for pelt.
King regards
thorsten
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>However i see that the Derby page is a mess.
>>>http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
>>>
>>>This is because you are using the recent Forrest
>>>but have not updated the configuration files.
>>
>>:-? Rather than that I _guess_ it's because the site is still using
>>the old css... sites should still work ok with crust, or we have a
>>problem...
>
>
> The Incubator CVS is still set up to use the old
> Forrest-0.5.1 config. Yet some people there are trying
> to use Forrest-0.6-dev which would need the various
> upgrades done, e.g. tweaking skinconf.xml
>
> Or are you saying that default colours and stuff should
> be automatically handled if they have not upgraded
> their skinconf.xml ?
It should AFAIK...
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >
> > However i see that the Derby page is a mess.
> > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
> >
> > This is because you are using the recent Forrest
> > but have not updated the configuration files.
>
> :-? Rather than that I _guess_ it's because the site is still using
> the old css... sites should still work ok with crust, or we have a
> problem...
The Incubator CVS is still set up to use the old
Forrest-0.5.1 config. Yet some people there are trying
to use Forrest-0.6-dev which would need the various
upgrades done, e.g. tweaking skinconf.xml
Or are you saying that default colours and stuff should
be automatically handled if they have not upgraded
their skinconf.xml ?
Anyway the Derby page was built using Forrest-0.6-dev
and the old 0.5.1 config, whereas it seems that the rest
of the site was last built using 0.5.1
> > I did provide a patch to the general @ incubator list
> > for this, but it was met with total silence.
Noel finally committed it today, which upgraded their
forrest.properties and skinconf.xml files. So now the
Incubator should be ready to go with 0.6-dev
--
David Crossley
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Ah Ken, i see from the incubator CVS messages that
> you can now build using the recent Forrest.
> Is the "com/ibm/crypto/provider/IBMJCE" issue gone?
>
> However i see that the Derby page is a mess.
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
>
> This is because you are using the recent Forrest
> but have not updated the configuration files.
:-? Rather than that I _guess_ it's because the site is still using
the old css... sites should still work ok with crust, or we have a
problem...
> I did provide a patch to the general @ incubator list
> for this, but it was met with total silence.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
each project needs a documentation team
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
(As usual i don't know on which list to raise such
cross-project issues. Should it be community@,
infrastructure, members? Lets start here ...)
David Crossley wrote:
> It was the first time that either i, or the Forrest PMC,
> ever heard that there were difficulties with the Incubator
> use of Forrest.
I can see how this happens. We are all patient people
and we trust that things will get better soon. Yet our
frustration grows.
Even if one of the Forrest PMC members is on each project
that uses Forrest, resolving the issues is still tricky.
Feedback still does not necessarily flow.
It seems that a crucial part of each Apache project is
a "documentation team". There need to be a few people in
every project that take care to ensure that their documentation
system is as efficient as possible.
This is not particular to using Forrest. Whatever documentation
system is used, the project still needs a few people to oversee
its function, keep the tools up-to-date, ensure that there are
no hurdles with ASF infrastructure or procedures.
Each project making exit from Incubator, and even existing
projects, would all ensure that they have a reliable issue
tracker, and SVN, and mailing lists, etc. However, not as much
attention is placed on the documentation It seems that many
projects then struggles to produce documentation.
We tried to avoid having a "documentation team" at Cocoon
to ensure that documentation was not ignored by some developers
and just left to those people. That hasn't really made any
difference. Doing documentation is still difficult.
Each project would do their own thing with managing documentation:
some use Anakia, some Forrest, some plain html, some Maven, ...
For all of these systems, people need the choice of editing
local source and locally building and reviewing. Other
people would just edit source documents and commit, then
some automated production would just take over to generate
and stage it.
There would be a common infrastructure that enables staging
and reviewing of documentation before it goes public. We had
a good discussion about this on infrastructure@ recently.
The thread started talking about "forrestbot" and deliberately
covered the issues of staging. There are also many background
threads and proposals like Doco. It all integrates nicely.
However we are having trouble to implement this staging.
Recently there have been promising experiments. See the
infrastructure and incubator mailing lists.
So to summarise, these are some key issues:
* Each project needs at least two documentation facilitator
people.
* Need automated builds of website and staging infrastructure.
* Need improved top-level documentation at /dev/ and /foundation/
to guide each project, and avoid repetitive bottlenecks.
--
David Crossley
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RE: forrest 37368 *CAN* build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> Both fixed. Are you supporting all of
> http://www.jspwiki.org/Wiki.jsp?page=TextFormattingRules?
No, but it is close.
http://forrest.apache.org/docs/wiki-sample.html
> OK, I built the site with the rev you recommend and the current contents of
> CVS. The result is at www.apache.org/~noel/incubator.apache.org, and
> appears to look good. I have not committed yet because I have not had a
> chance to look in depth, but it looks good so far.
I had a casual look and it seems okay.
There is still the Table of Contents issues that Ken mentioned.
As we said before, a bug was fixed with the generation of pages
from JSPWiki syntax which now enables the ToC to be shown.
The ToC can be configured via site/skinconf.xml to be always
on all pages or never on any pages. The number of levels can
also be configured. We now have Issue FOR-274 to make it even
more configurable.
--
David Crossley
RE: forrest 37368 *CAN* build incubator site
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> I built the site with the rev you recommend and the current
> contents of CVS.
And committed it to CVS. Added MyFaces pages and what appear to have been
new files in the forrest skin.
--- Noel
RE: forrest 37368 *CAN* build incubator site
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
> At Forrest we have restored the old "forrest-site" skin
> that Incubator PMC once used to build the top-level
> website. So now the old "look" is back.
Great. :-)
> The trunk SVN version Forrest-0.6-dev from 2004-09-02
> works nicely (i.e. revision 37368). Don't go past that
> until we advise.
Got it.
> The following change is required ...
> ------
> diff -r1.4 forrest.properties
> 29a30
> > project.skin=forrest-site
> ------
Done. Please use diff -u when posting patches.
> There is one hiccup. The projects/myfaces.cwiki
> is broken. There is a solitary whitespace char at
> line 20
> Also that document uses JSPWiki link syntax for
> ... [pending] ... around line 16 which causes it to
> try to build a page called "pending.html".
Both fixed. Are you supporting all of
http://www.jspwiki.org/Wiki.jsp?page=TextFormattingRules?
OK, I built the site with the rev you recommend and the current contents of
CVS. The result is at www.apache.org/~noel/incubator.apache.org, and
appears to look good. I have not committed yet because I have not had a
chance to look in depth, but it looks good so far.
--- Noel
RE: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
At Forrest we have restored the old "forrest-site" skin
that Incubator PMC once used to build the top-level website.
So now the old "look" is back.
The trunk SVN version Forrest-0.6-dev from 2004-09-02
works nicely (i.e. revision 37368). Don't go past that
until we advise.
The following change is required ...
------
diff -r1.4 forrest.properties
29a30
> project.skin=forrest-site
------
Please, please, if there is anything wrong, then contact the
forrest-dev mailing list.
There is one hiccup. The projects/myfaces.cwiki
is broken. There is a solitary whitespace char at
line 20 ... Grrrr.
Also that document uses JSPWiki link syntax for
... [pending] ... around line 16 which causes it to
try to build a page called "pending.html". Fair enough,
that is what it was told to do.
--
David Crossley
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
It seems that the top-level of the Incubator website
was built using an old development version of Forrest.
Then Ken tried to build just one page using the current
development version of Forrest, which is different of course.
At Forrest we will try to resurrect the outdated skin
so that people have a chance to remain with the old
functionality and move to the new as they choose.
By the way, i had a nice telephone conversation today with
Berin Lautenbach. We feel that we have discovered a way
forward using Nicola Ken's suggestion to bring back
the old "forrest-site" skin, coupled with Incubator
instructions to use a specific version of Forrest-0.6-dev
--
David Crossley
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
...
My apologies for the problems Forrest is giving the Incubator Project.
I feel responsible for it, having proposed it in the first place.
I think that Forrest has been a serious problem for active collaboration
on the site, and wish to fix this. If this does not happen in a
reasonable time, I'll personally ask to drop it's usage till it becomes
more usable for this purpose.
Now on to the replies... (let's continue this thread on the forrest dev
list)
> that makes it better.. but it does *not* restore the appearance
> we had/{want?}. observe the difference between what we have/want:
>
> http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-before.png
>
> and what the above change gives us:
>
> http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-after.png
This is a new version of the skin that was used before. The changes were
made to use more CSS and make the fonts smaller (the size is
customizable), as many have complained that they were too big
(especially in navigation). It is unfortunate that we are also now
deciding to do another change in the skin format, to make it fully
css-based...
> specifically:
>
> 1. the tab (shape,font,size,highlighting} is substantially different.
> 2. the print/pdf icons in the upper right have been shrunken to things
> barely recognisable.
> 3. the text in the 'search' box has changed from white to black,
> reducing readability.
> 4. worst of all, the body has changed so that it now has a toc at the
> beginning, pushing the meat of the page down.
This last point is configurable in skinconf.xml... the TOC can be set to
less levels or disabled. (IIRC the <toc> element)
Another unwanted backwards incompatible change :-/
...
> which leads
> ** me to be concerned that making that change, which should make the
> ** derby page look like the 'after' picture, will break *other* pages
> ** already on the site.
The whole site has to change AFAIK unfortunately.
> i really appreciate the improvement, but what do we need to do to regain
> our original look-and-feel?
We have deleted the old skin as it does not use the new Forrest
features. As it seems this is not well seen by our users. I'll see if we
will decide to revert this "imposed" skin upgrade.
> i'm not sure i entirely buy the 'was built with 0.5.1' argument, since
> ian holsman supposedly built the looked-right derby page on his own machine
> using 0.6-dev, with no skin/config changes, and then uploaded it.
0.6-dev has changed fast in the skins lately, so it could just be that
he used a previous 0.6-dev version.
...
> this is not a slam against forrest by any means; i love forrest's potential.
> if anything, it's a criticism of the choice to use it for the i.a.o site,
> which is maintained largely by forrest non-users. forrest is a moderately
> complex beast, and is still evolving. someone (presumably whomever was
> originally so gung-ho for forrest that it set up/converted the i.a.o site
> to use it) should track the changes to forrest that are going to affect our
> use of it, and make appropriate modifications to the i.a.o site.
That's me IIUC... the fact is that we are trying to make it totally
backwards compatible, and I thought that it still was. It seems that the
forced skin change is the major culprit.
> i don't
> think it's unreasonable for everyone updating the i.a.o site to know how to
> *use* forrest (update-pages-and-go), but i *do* think it's a bit over the top
> to expect them to know how to configure it and know what changes to make
> to track forrest's own evolution.
Of course. These problems have come up because Forrest (the project) has
been very bad at releasing, and this has forced me to use the dev
version to update the site. We have decided new rules and dates for
releasing, so after 0.6 the Incubator can saftely generate the site with
a fixed version.
> moving on to how-to questions concerning the cwiki format:
You can find a reference here:
http://forrest.apache.org/docs/wiki-sample.html
As for *.cwiki, it seems to be creating issues instead of just being a
simple format, as it gives validation problems without being able to be
validated. Would a change to using plain *.html (still digested by
Forrest) be a better option?
> 1. is there any way to create a prominent box for important notes?
Nope.
> 2. is there any way to include [url] and ''italic'' inside a table?
> (those seem to end the table def)
Not AFAIK.
> 3. how does one signal bold text?
__text__
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>.
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> David Crossley wrote:
>
>>>Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
>>>
>>>that makes it better.. but it does *not* restore the appearance
>>>we had/{want?}. observe the difference between what we have/want:
>>>
>>>http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-before.png
>>
>>You will not get the same as you had before.
>>The skins have moved on and been developed since then.
>
>
> okey, then i think forrest is not the tool for the incubator site.
> the site isn't maintained as a whole by a team; it consists
> of sections maintained by different groups of people. if
> the entire site has to be regenerated each time for safety
> and consistency, then it's not for us.
It is up to you which you check in you cvs!!! You have to build the site
local and check the files in you changed.
> ...
> it's not what we felt happy with, so it's bad. forrest is forcing
> a change on us without our consent, and with no way to resist.
> ...
>
As software evaluates changes occur!
If you want to use the newest features of a software, you will have to
adopt changes! If you do not want that then do not use software at all
or stick with the old version.
>>When it looks decent locally, the whole incubator site
>>should be updated. Thereafter it will be much easier.
>
>
> until the next time the site gets out of sync with forrest's evolution.
>
Only if you use e.g. your own skin! That is the reason why we want to
focus our energy on creating a skin which will be able to adopt to your
preference.
>
>>You can't have the original. We have updated the skins
>>to be more efficient and better able to be styled, i.e
>>to have better use of straight html and css. There is no
>>going back to the old stuff.
>
>
> then the forrest project is forcing a look&feel change on us, its
> users. regardless of whether the new look&feel is better (i for one
> don't think it is), that's not acceptable to me. i don't appreciate
> being told how my web pages should look. if the software forcibly
> changes with no backward compatibility, that software isn't for me.
Look at the color scheme we introduced and the custom css import in the
skinconf.xml.
That makes it possible to have the same look&feel in different skins.
Keeping your look and feel is our mission.
We are developing a skin that supports e.g. the
http://www.csszengarden.com/ concept. We told you how your site should
look like with the old skin concept. We will not with the new skins!
>
>>Well look at it from the Forrest project point-of-view.
>>We spend ages writing documentation to help people
>>upgrade from 0.5 to 0.6 version. Then people start using
>>the unreleased dev version *without* doing such upgrade steps.
>>Of course there will be difficulties. Then we need to dive in and
>>help. All this time we cannot get 0.6 released because too busy.
>>
>>There. We have both let off some steam.
>
>
> :-)
>
> except: since the incubator site doesn't have a single set of maintainers,
> no-one apparently was aware that the site needed to be upgraded along
> with the software to build it.
>
Only if you want to use the newest features!
> i think forrest is clearly too advanced and heavy-weight an app for
> the incubator site's purpose.
>
>
I do not think so!
thorsten
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
David Crossley wrote:
>
>> Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
>>
>> that makes it better.. but it does *not* restore the appearance
>> we had/{want?}. observe the difference between what we have/want:
>>
>> http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-before.png
>
> You will not get the same as you had before.
> The skins have moved on and been developed since then.
okey, then i think forrest is not the tool for the incubator site.
the site isn't maintained as a whole by a team; it consists
of sections maintained by different groups of people. if
the entire site has to be regenerated each time for safety
and consistency, then it's not for us.
>> 1. the tab (shape,font,size,highlighting} is substantially different.
>
> Is that bad or just different?
it's not what we felt happy with, so it's bad. forrest is forcing
a change on us without our consent, and with no way to resist.
>> 2. the print/pdf icons in the upper right have been shrunken to things
>> barely recognisable.
>
> Don't know what can be done there.
>
>> 3. the text in the 'search' box has changed from white to black,
>> reducing readability.
>
> Will need to investigate, but low priority.
>
>> 4. worst of all, the body has changed so that it now has a toc at the
>> beginning, pushing the meat of the page down.
>
> I note that all the other Incubator pages do have the ToC ...
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
not the project cwiki pages.
> So my guess is that a bug has been fixed in the Wiki parsing
> to enable the ToC which was missing before. See the notes in
> site/skinconf.xml there are options for the ToC.
so that might be fixable -- if it can be localised to specific
portions of the site and not forcibly apply to all pages.
> Hmm, my guess is that that there are now missing
> supporting files, e.g *.css which should have also
> been published to incubator.apache.org
>
> You updated one page with its skeleton HTML but i did
> not see any commit messages for the /skin/ directory.
correct. i'm updating a single page. that's all i want to change.
i do *not* want to have to figure out ancillary pages that need to
be frobbed even though i didn't touch them.
> When it looks decent locally, the whole incubator site
> should be updated. Thereafter it will be much easier.
until the next time the site gets out of sync with forrest's evolution.
> You can't have the original. We have updated the skins
> to be more efficient and better able to be styled, i.e
> to have better use of straight html and css. There is no
> going back to the old stuff.
then the forrest project is forcing a look&feel change on us, its
users. regardless of whether the new look&feel is better (i for one
don't think it is), that's not acceptable to me. i don't appreciate
being told how my web pages should look. if the software forcibly
changes with no backward compatibility, that software isn't for me.
> Well look at it from the Forrest project point-of-view.
> We spend ages writing documentation to help people
> upgrade from 0.5 to 0.6 version. Then people start using
> the unreleased dev version *without* doing such upgrade steps.
> Of course there will be difficulties. Then we need to dive in and
> help. All this time we cannot get 0.6 released because too busy.
>
> There. We have both let off some steam.
:-)
except: since the incubator site doesn't have a single set of maintainers,
no-one apparently was aware that the site needed to be upgraded along
with the software to build it.
i think forrest is clearly too advanced and heavy-weight an app for
the incubator site's purpose.
> In my opinion, using Forrest is really easy.
> The incubator project has been caught in a sloppy transition.
> Give me some time to help fix it.
before you invest any more time, let's see if the incubator wants
to stick with forrest.
- --
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> yes, the problem appears to have been my ibm 1.3 jdk was too ancient
> for forrest to run properly. replacing it with sun's 1.4.2_05
> seems to have fixed the mysterious exceptions. since it *was*
> apparently due to a too-old jre, i ask that either the build
> for forrest itself, or the script used when actually *using* forrest,
> whichever/both is appropriate, be enhanced to flag a too-old jre.
>
> David Crossley wrote:
>
> > Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >> David Crossley wrote:
> >> > i see that the Derby page is a mess.
> >> > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
> >>
> >> > This is because you are using the recent Forrest
> >> > but have not updated the configuration files.
> >>
> >> I have committed your changes to CVS.
> >
> > Good on you, Noel.
>
> that makes it better.. but it does *not* restore the appearance
> we had/{want?}. observe the difference between what we have/want:
>
> http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-before.png
You will not get the same as you had before.
The skins have moved on and been developed since then.
The configuration might still need tweaking. I will send
another patch. But having gone through this whole email,
there is not much more that needs attention.
> and what the above change gives us:
>
> http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-after.png
>
> specifically:
>
> 1. the tab (shape,font,size,highlighting} is substantially different.
Is that bad or just different?
> 2. the print/pdf icons in the upper right have been shrunken to things
> barely recognisable.
Don't know what can be done there.
> 3. the text in the 'search' box has changed from white to black,
> reducing readability.
Will need to investigate, but low priority.
> 4. worst of all, the body has changed so that it now has a toc at the
> beginning, pushing the meat of the page down.
I note that all the other Incubator pages do have the ToC ...
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
So my guess is that a bug has been fixed in the Wiki parsing
to enable the ToC which was missing before. See the notes in
site/skinconf.xml there are options for the ToC.
> ** argh. worse and worse. i just uploaded the changed pages to
> ** the web site, since they were better than the last set -- but apparently
> ** there are additional files that need to go up to define the styles.
> ** because http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html, which i
> ** just uploaded from my own build, and which should look like
> ** http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-after.png , instead looks like it
> ** did before noel applied david's changes. evidently the changes
> ** are needed for more than just the build; some of their output in
> ** addition to the target html page is needed as well. which leads
> ** me to be concerned that making that change, which should make the
> ** derby page look like the 'after' picture, will break *other* pages
> ** already on the site.
Hmm, my guess is that that there are now missing
supporting files, e.g *.css which should have also
been published to incubator.apache.org
You updated one page with its skeleton HTML but i did
not see any commit messages for the /skin/ directory.
When it looks decent locally, the whole incubator site
should be updated. Thereafter it will be much easier.
> i really appreciate the improvement, but what do we need to do to regain
> our original look-and-feel?
You can't have the original. We have updated the skins
to be more efficient and better able to be styled, i.e
to have better use of straight html and css. There is no
going back to the old stuff.
> i'm not sure i entirely buy the 'was built with 0.5.1' argument, since
> ian holsman supposedly built the looked-right derby page on his own machine
> using 0.6-dev, with no skin/config changes, and then uploaded it.
>
> i'm really sorry if i sound snarky and cranky; it's just that i want
> to *update the page and move on*, not spend a lot of time futzing
> around with having to update/upgrade various configurations and packages
> for days, only to *still* not have what i should have.
Well look at it from the Forrest project point-of-view.
We spend ages writing documentation to help people
upgrade from 0.5 to 0.6 version. Then people start using
the unreleased dev version *without* doing such upgrade steps.
Of course there will be difficulties. Then we need to dive in and
help. All this time we cannot get 0.6 released because too busy.
There. We have both let off some steam.
> this is not a slam against forrest by any means; i love forrest's potential.
> if anything, it's a criticism of the choice to use it for the i.a.o site,
> which is maintained largely by forrest non-users. forrest is a moderately
> complex beast, and is still evolving. someone (presumably whomever was
> originally so gung-ho for forrest that it set up/converted the i.a.o site
> to use it) should track the changes to forrest that are going to affect our
> use of it, and make appropriate modifications to the i.a.o site. i don't
> think it's unreasonable for everyone updating the i.a.o site to know how to
> *use* forrest (update-pages-and-go), but i *do* think it's a bit over the top
> to expect them to know how to configure it and know what changes to make
> to track forrest's own evolution.
In my opinion, using Forrest is really easy.
The incubator project has been caught in a sloppy transition.
Give me some time to help fix it.
> moving on to how-to questions concerning the cwiki format:
>
> 1. is there any way to create a prominent box for important notes?
> 2. is there any way to include [url] and ''italic'' inside a table?
> (those seem to end the table def)
> 3. how does one signal bold text?
http://forrest.apache.org/docs/wiki-sample.html
http://www.jspwiki.org/Wiki.jsp?page=TextFormattingRules
You can't use every construct from the latter.
Forrest only handles a subset.
--David
> - --
> #ken P-)}
>
> Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
> Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
>
> "Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> yes, the problem appears to have been my ibm 1.3 jdk was too ancient
> for forrest to run properly. replacing it with sun's 1.4.2_05
> seems to have fixed the mysterious exceptions. since it *was*
> apparently due to a too-old jre, i ask that either the build
> for forrest itself, or the script used when actually *using* forrest,
> whichever/both is appropriate, be enhanced to flag a too-old jre.
>
Forrest works fine with a 1.3 jdk, I use it regularly. The JCE error you
were getting was about cryptographic extensions so while the problem was
in the jdk, it was in its configuration, not in its age.
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
yes, the problem appears to have been my ibm 1.3 jdk was too ancient
for forrest to run properly. replacing it with sun's 1.4.2_05
seems to have fixed the mysterious exceptions. since it *was*
apparently due to a too-old jre, i ask that either the build
for forrest itself, or the script used when actually *using* forrest,
whichever/both is appropriate, be enhanced to flag a too-old jre.
David Crossley wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> David Crossley wrote:
>> > i see that the Derby page is a mess.
>> > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
>>
>> > This is because you are using the recent Forrest
>> > but have not updated the configuration files.
>>
>> I have committed your changes to CVS.
>
> Good on you, Noel.
that makes it better.. but it does *not* restore the appearance
we had/{want?}. observe the difference between what we have/want:
http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-before.png
and what the above change gives us:
http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-after.png
specifically:
1. the tab (shape,font,size,highlighting} is substantially different.
2. the print/pdf icons in the upper right have been shrunken to things
barely recognisable.
3. the text in the 'search' box has changed from white to black,
reducing readability.
4. worst of all, the body has changed so that it now has a toc at the
beginning, pushing the meat of the page down.
** argh. worse and worse. i just uploaded the changed pages to
** the web site, since they were better than the last set -- but apparently
** there are additional files that need to go up to define the styles.
** because http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html, which i
** just uploaded from my own build, and which should look like
** http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/i.a.o-after.png , instead looks like it
** did before noel applied david's changes. evidently the changes
** are needed for more than just the build; some of their output in
** addition to the target html page is needed as well. which leads
** me to be concerned that making that change, which should make the
** derby page look like the 'after' picture, will break *other* pages
** already on the site.
i really appreciate the improvement, but what do we need to do to regain
our original look-and-feel?
i'm not sure i entirely buy the 'was built with 0.5.1' argument, since
ian holsman supposedly built the looked-right derby page on his own machine
using 0.6-dev, with no skin/config changes, and then uploaded it.
i'm really sorry if i sound snarky and cranky; it's just that i want
to *update the page and move on*, not spend a lot of time futzing
around with having to update/upgrade various configurations and packages
for days, only to *still* not have what i should have.
this is not a slam against forrest by any means; i love forrest's potential.
if anything, it's a criticism of the choice to use it for the i.a.o site,
which is maintained largely by forrest non-users. forrest is a moderately
complex beast, and is still evolving. someone (presumably whomever was
originally so gung-ho for forrest that it set up/converted the i.a.o site
to use it) should track the changes to forrest that are going to affect our
use of it, and make appropriate modifications to the i.a.o site. i don't
think it's unreasonable for everyone updating the i.a.o site to know how to
*use* forrest (update-pages-and-go), but i *do* think it's a bit over the top
to expect them to know how to configure it and know what changes to make
to track forrest's own evolution.
moving on to how-to questions concerning the cwiki format:
1. is there any way to create a prominent box for important notes?
2. is there any way to include [url] and ''italic'' inside a table?
(those seem to end the table def)
3. how does one signal bold text?
- --
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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RE: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > i see that the Derby page is a mess.
> > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
>
> > This is because you are using the recent Forrest
> > but have not updated the configuration files.
>
> I have committed your changes to CVS.
Good on you, Noel.
> Still hoping that you will help us to
> setup ~noel/incubator-site as a temporary publishing engine. There is no
> reason everyone to have to track forrest changes, or have to deal with it.
> Let's just setup a place where people like Roy, Ken, Ian, Cliff, et al, can
> just do the standard update, build, commit cycle.
Yes, will do - already emailed Berin to arrange a time
to talk about how to do it.
This is the situation where Forrestbot will help.
However, we have holdups with people, resources, and energy.
So this interim "staging" solution should assist.
--
David Crossley
RE: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
> i see that the Derby page is a mess.
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
> This is because you are using the recent Forrest
> but have not updated the configuration files.
I have committed your changes to CVS. Still hoping that you will help us to
setup ~noel/incubator-site as a temporary publishing engine. There is no
reason everyone to have to track forrest changes, or have to deal with it.
Let's just setup a place where people like Roy, Ken, Ian, Cliff, et al, can
just do the standard update, build, commit cycle.
--- Noel
Re: latest forrest can't build incubator site
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ah Ken, i see from the incubator CVS messages that
you can now build using the recent Forrest.
Is the "com/ibm/crypto/provider/IBMJCE" issue gone?
However i see that the Derby page is a mess.
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
This is because you are using the recent Forrest
but have not updated the configuration files.
I did provide a patch to the general @ incubator list
for this, but it was met with total silence.
--
David Crossley