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Posted to community@apache.org by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> on 2002/10/26 14:04:43 UTC
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
>
>
>> The idea:
>>
>> ant.apache.org would become a valid url
>
>
>
> Good move - presumably could be indendent of the rest of the points ?
This has been asked but not answered. I think the answer is probably no
as those are reserved for top level projects. (I prefer the answer to
be yes...but I don't think it is)
>
>>
>> ant would have its own PMC composed of whomever the committers decide
>> (I guess)
>> ant would report directly to the board
>
>
>
> Pros and cons - appears to me that the main issue is general
> discontinuity of the value perception - committers look at a PMC and
> see it as an overhead and something to push into the furthests reaches
> of their minds - board members see this is the accountability
> mechanisms - I'm still thinging about this one - I know there is
> something wrong with the model but I don't have througts together yet.
Understandable. Another benefit: greater self determination. Although
its in a less tangible way as Jakarta committers have great deal of
this. But you need to think not only about ant but in a global kind of
manner (the ASF as a whole)
>
>>
>> unresolved (but I think open...or maybe I'm wrong)
>> relationship between ant and Jakarta (I'm assuming it would answer to
>> Jakarta only in name/branding)
>
>
>
> Good move - leverage Jakarta (brand etc.).
agreed.
>
>>
>> jakarta.apache.org/ant still valid url?
>
>
>
> Should be.
agreed
>>
>> greater access to the members/board
>
>
>
> Questionable given the PMC concept verus community disconnect I'm seeing.
well principally you should be interested in this communication.
Another PRO...
more opportunity for ant committers to become recognized and achieve
membership.
>
>>
>> Disadvantage
>> reporting directly to the board (from a laziness perspective...I
>> think you have to actually "report" though I could be wrong)
>> you'd be the first to make the transition
>
>
>
> My impression is that this something comming (which I happen to think
> is long overdue).
which this would help achieve..
>
>>
>> Ant is the project I personally would like to see be top level most.
>> Suggestion:
>> Someone who understands the proposed process of this happening draft
>> a formal proposal to be voted on..
>
>
>
> I'm not on the ant list but I would be definaterly keen to see such a
> proposal cross posted to community@
yes. or just moved there.
>
> Cheers, Steve.
>
>>
>> -Andy
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>> An honor more like. . Plus the opportunity to have more influence
>> in/benefit from the most influential software development
>> organization ever. Certainly this involves responsibility.
>> Few things worth anything don't.
>
>
>
> Ok ... lets take this a little step further - what are the
> reponsibilities that you are referring to?
> It's one of the little things I havn't been able to figure out yet.
I'm not a member, I don't even play one on TV. However its fairly
reasonably document here:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/
Maybe Ken, Sam and Stefano can share more personal experience based
testimony.
>
> My questions are more aligned with reaching an understanding of the
> big picture - I'm not asking from the point of view of personal
> membership - I'm much more interested in .... well, lets call it
> understanding the social model in Jakarta ;-).
As I understand it...
We're not talking about Jakarta. We're talking about the ASF. Its like
we're talking about the macro afairs of state in the Foreign relations
committee of the Senate and you're talking about how the drought is
affecting farm workers one district of your home state (I can't think
of an appropriate nationally locallized system...parlementary
democracies in geographically smaller countries work much differently).
general@jakarta is where you discuss the micro issues (Velocity vs
Struts and why people think there is a vs...please don't its a boring ol
topic just read it in the archive). This is more of a place to discuss
macro issues.
Perhaps Stefano or someone can put Jakarta in perspective of the ASF.
-Andy
>
> Cheers, Steve.
>
>>
>> "To write code" isn't good enough. You can do that on sourceforge.
>>
>> then again this may be the effect of the "real system" for
>> committership... ("fine...apply your patches yourself if you don't
>> think I do it fast enough ;-)")
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not on the ant list but I would be definaterly keen to see
>>>>> such a proposal cross posted to community@
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes. or just moved there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be cool!
>>>
>>> Cheers, Steve.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, Steve.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> well principally you should be interested in this communication.
>>> Another PRO...
>>> more opportunity for ant committers to become recognized and achieve
>>> membership.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .......... ummmmm, you say that like there is an end-gain
>
>
>
> An honor more like. . Plus the opportunity to have more influence
> in/benefit from the most influential software development organization
> ever. Certainly this involves responsibility.
> Few things worth anything don't.
Ok ... lets take this a little step further - what are the
reponsibilities that you are referring to?
It's one of the little things I havn't been able to figure out yet.
>
>
> If you don't feel that way....then I guess "why are you here?" is a
> good question.
My questions are more aligned with reaching an understanding of the big
picture - I'm not asking from the point of view of personal membership -
I'm much more interested in .... well, lets call it understanding the
social model in Jakarta ;-).
Cheers, Steve.
>
> "To write code" isn't good enough. You can do that on sourceforge.
>
> then again this may be the effect of the "real system" for
> committership... ("fine...apply your patches yourself if you don't
> think I do it fast enough ;-)")
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not on the ant list but I would be definaterly keen to see such
>>>> a proposal cross posted to community@
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> yes. or just moved there.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That would be cool!
>>
>> Cheers, Steve.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Steve.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Andy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>>
>>
>> well principally you should be interested in this communication.
>> Another PRO...
>> more opportunity for ant committers to become recognized and achieve
>> membership.
>
>
>
> .......... ummmmm, you say that like there is an end-gain
An honor more like. . Plus the opportunity to have more influence
in/benefit from the most influential software development organization
ever. Certainly this involves responsibility.
Few things worth anything don't.
If you don't feel that way....then I guess "why are you here?" is a good
question.
"To write code" isn't good enough. You can do that on sourceforge.
then again this may be the effect of the "real system" for
committership... ("fine...apply your patches yourself if you don't
think I do it fast enough ;-)")
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not on the ant list but I would be definaterly keen to see such
>>> a proposal cross posted to community@
>>
>>
>>
>> yes. or just moved there.
>
>
>
> That would be cool!
>
> Cheers, Steve.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers, Steve.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
> Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
It is possible for a person to be on more than one PMC. It is also
possible to voluntarily resign from one PMC so that one can focus on
other things.
- Sam Ruby
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
>
> What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
> Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
sure.
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
"Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> wrote on 26/10/2002 10:04:43 PM:
> >
> >
> >> The idea:
> >>
> >> ant.apache.org would become a valid url
> >
> >
> >
> > Good move - presumably could be indendent of the rest of the points ?
>
>
> This has been asked but not answered. I think the answer is probably no
> as those are reserved for top level projects. (I prefer the answer to
> be yes...but I don't think it is)
>
> >
> >>
> >> ant would have its own PMC composed of whomever the committers decide
> >> (I guess)
> >> ant would report directly to the board
> >
> >
> >
> > Pros and cons - appears to me that the main issue is general
> > discontinuity of the value perception - committers look at a PMC and
> > see it as an overhead and something to push into the furthests reaches
> > of their minds - board members see this is the accountability
> > mechanisms - I'm still thinging about this one - I know there is
> > something wrong with the model but I don't have througts together yet.
>
> Understandable. Another benefit: greater self determination. Although
> its in a less tangible way as Jakarta committers have great deal of
> this. But you need to think not only about ant but in a global kind of
> manner (the ASF as a whole)
>
> >
> >>
> >> unresolved (but I think open...or maybe I'm wrong)
> >> relationship between ant and Jakarta (I'm assuming it would answer to
> >> Jakarta only in name/branding)
> >
> >
> >
> > Good move - leverage Jakarta (brand etc.).
>
> agreed.
>
> >
> >>
> >> jakarta.apache.org/ant still valid url?
> >
> >
> >
> > Should be.
>
> agreed
>
> >>
> >> greater access to the members/board
> >
> >
> >
> > Questionable given the PMC concept verus community disconnect I'm
seeing.
>
> well principally you should be interested in this communication.
> Another PRO...
> more opportunity for ant committers to become recognized and achieve
> membership.
>
> >
> >>
> >> Disadvantage
> >> reporting directly to the board (from a laziness perspective...I
> >> think you have to actually "report" though I could be wrong)
> >> you'd be the first to make the transition
> >
> >
> >
> > My impression is that this something comming (which I happen to think
> > is long overdue).
>
> which this would help achieve..
>
> >
> >>
> >> Ant is the project I personally would like to see be top level most.
> >> Suggestion:
> >> Someone who understands the proposed process of this happening draft
> >> a formal proposal to be voted on..
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm not on the ant list but I would be definaterly keen to see such a
> > proposal cross posted to community@
>
> yes. or just moved there.
>
> >
> > Cheers, Steve.
> >
> >>
> >> -Andy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
> ForwardSourceID:NT00086AEA