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Posted to dev@jena.apache.org by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> on 2019/09/20 10:47:45 UTC

Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

The Turtle and TriG writers output "@prefix".

RDF 1.1 allows PREFIX.

Should we change the writers to output PREFIX? (after the next release)

(we can add options but majority of users don't set options and exisintg 
code doesn't)

     Andy

Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by Rob Vesse <rv...@dotnetrdf.org>.
Same here -1

On 20/09/2019, 12:18, "Claude Warren" <cl...@xenei.com> wrote:

    For me this falls under "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
    so
    -1
    
    
    On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:47 AM Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
    
    > The Turtle and TriG writers output "@prefix".
    >
    > RDF 1.1 allows PREFIX.
    >
    > Should we change the writers to output PREFIX? (after the next release)
    >
    > (we can add options but majority of users don't set options and exisintg
    > code doesn't)
    >
    >      Andy
    >
    
    
    -- 
    I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
    <http://like-like.xenei.com>
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Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by Claude Warren <cl...@xenei.com>.
Ok.  Now we might have an "it's broke" statement.  So I change my -1 to 0.

Claude

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:27 PM Élie Roux <el...@telecom-bretagne.eu>
wrote:

> > Another argument has been "storing RDF text file in git". There is some
> > point to that but output isn't stable anyway (bNodes! hash tables! Small
> > changes of RDF triples can cause big changes in the text output)
>
> This would be our case, we don't use blank nodes and we have something
> to make the output the same in almost all cases. Changing the PREFIX
> thing is not a huge deal, but the sooner it's done, the better for us!
>
> Best,
> --
> Elie
>


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Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by Élie Roux <el...@telecom-bretagne.eu>.
> Another argument has been "storing RDF text file in git". There is some
> point to that but output isn't stable anyway (bNodes! hash tables! Small
> changes of RDF triples can cause big changes in the text output)

This would be our case, we don't use blank nodes and we have something
to make the output the same in almost all cases. Changing the PREFIX
thing is not a huge deal, but the sooner it's done, the better for us!

Best,
-- 
Elie

Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>.

On 21/09/2019 13:41, Andy Seaborne wrote:
> Evolution.
> 
> The Turtle spec was February 2014 -- there wasn't a formal definition 
> before RDF 1.1 -- and the grammar for prefix names and the rest is the 
> same as SPARQL 9all the grammar rules ending "s")
> 
> This is on output, so hand written files are not a strong factor here 
> because they can be read in.
> 
> PREFIX and @prefix are both legal inputs to the parsers.
> 
> Teaching this stuff does get the question "why?".
> 
> Another argument has been "storing RDF text file in git". There is some 
> point to that but output isn't stable anyway (bNodes! hash tables! Small 
> changes of RDF triples can cause big changes in the text output)
> 
> What do other toolkits do?

And are there any toolkits that do not accept PREFIX?
Do they accept RDF 1.1 Turtle thigns liek \u or \~ in prefixed names?

     Andy

> 
> I think it is a combination of migration and doing the expected.
> 
>      Andy
> 
> On 20/09/2019 21:10, ajs6f wrote:
>> Ditto, but I'd be interested in hearing why you suggested it, Andy. 
>> IOW are there some benefits that aren't obvious?
>>
>> ajs6f
>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Claude Warren <cl...@xenei.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> For me this falls under "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
>>> so
>>> -1
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:47 AM Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Turtle and TriG writers output "@prefix".
>>>>
>>>> RDF 1.1 allows PREFIX.
>>>>
>>>> Should we change the writers to output PREFIX? (after the next release)
>>>>
>>>> (we can add options but majority of users don't set options and 
>>>> exisintg
>>>> code doesn't)
>>>>
>>>>      Andy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
>>> <http://like-like.xenei.com>
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren
>>

Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>.
Evolution.

The Turtle spec was February 2014 -- there wasn't a formal definition 
before RDF 1.1 -- and the grammar for prefix names and the rest is the 
same as SPARQL 9all the grammar rules ending "s")

This is on output, so hand written files are not a strong factor here 
because they can be read in.

PREFIX and @prefix are both legal inputs to the parsers.

Teaching this stuff does get the question "why?".

Another argument has been "storing RDF text file in git". There is some 
point to that but output isn't stable anyway (bNodes! hash tables! Small 
changes of RDF triples can cause big changes in the text output)

What do other toolkits do?

I think it is a combination of migration and doing the expected.

     Andy

On 20/09/2019 21:10, ajs6f wrote:
> Ditto, but I'd be interested in hearing why you suggested it, Andy. IOW are there some benefits that aren't obvious?
> 
> ajs6f
> 
>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Claude Warren <cl...@xenei.com> wrote:
>>
>> For me this falls under "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
>> so
>> -1
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:47 AM Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The Turtle and TriG writers output "@prefix".
>>>
>>> RDF 1.1 allows PREFIX.
>>>
>>> Should we change the writers to output PREFIX? (after the next release)
>>>
>>> (we can add options but majority of users don't set options and exisintg
>>> code doesn't)
>>>
>>>      Andy
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
>> <http://like-like.xenei.com>
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren
>

Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by ajs6f <aj...@apache.org>.
Ditto, but I'd be interested in hearing why you suggested it, Andy. IOW are there some benefits that aren't obvious?

ajs6f

> On Sep 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Claude Warren <cl...@xenei.com> wrote:
> 
> For me this falls under "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
> so
> -1
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:47 AM Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> The Turtle and TriG writers output "@prefix".
>> 
>> RDF 1.1 allows PREFIX.
>> 
>> Should we change the writers to output PREFIX? (after the next release)
>> 
>> (we can add options but majority of users don't set options and exisintg
>> code doesn't)
>> 
>>     Andy
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
> <http://like-like.xenei.com>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren

Re: Discuss: write PREFIX not @prefix?

Posted by Claude Warren <cl...@xenei.com>.
For me this falls under "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
so
-1


On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:47 AM Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:

> The Turtle and TriG writers output "@prefix".
>
> RDF 1.1 allows PREFIX.
>
> Should we change the writers to output PREFIX? (after the next release)
>
> (we can add options but majority of users don't set options and exisintg
> code doesn't)
>
>      Andy
>


-- 
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
<http://like-like.xenei.com>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren