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[GitHub] [kafka] LiamClarkeNZ opened a new pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
LiamClarkeNZ opened a new pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475
In KAFKA-7077 and the associated KIP-318, there's a desire to a) enable producer idempotence and b) set max in flight requests to 5 to improve throughput, as opposed to the previous hardwired 1.
With the change of producer defaults in Kafka 3.0.0 (acks = all, enable.idempotence = true, max.in.flight.requests.per.connection=5) all this behaviour comes for free if the explicit producer configuration in the Worker is removed.
### Committer Checklist (excluded from commit message)
- [ ] Verify design and implementation
- [ ] Verify test coverage and CI build status
- [ ] Verify documentation (including upgrade notes)
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074116541
@showuon We should add a note to `upgrade.html` for this (and similar types of changes).
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma edited a comment on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma edited a comment on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075173105
@kkonstantine What is the expected broker version compatibility for connect? If it's older than 0.11, then we cannot rely on idempotence.
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[GitHub] [kafka] kkonstantine edited a comment on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
kkonstantine edited a comment on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074761446
Thanks for bring this to our attention @ijuma. This change should be fine from Connect's perspective. `acks=all` is now implied instead of explicitly defined and idempotence has been enabled since 3.0.0 and we had decided not to override this setting in Connect.
The property that would give someone pause is the value for `max.in.flight.requests.per.connection` that now is greater than 1. The reassurance that this will work comes from [KAFKA-5494](https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-5494) which unfortunately is not mentioned in the original [KIP-98](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-98+-+Exactly+Once+Delivery+and+Transactional+Messaging) (I see it mentioned in the [KIP-318](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-318%3A+Make+Kafka+Connect+Source+idempotent) that is relevant to Connect) and should have been mentioned in this PR, if not in the code.
Having said that, I think it would have been a good idea to leave a comment in the code that would say that Connect requires these configs which are now enabled by default with the idempotent producer.
I also agree that this should go as a notable change in the docs.
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075173105
@kkonstantine A related question in this other PR https://github.com/confluentinc/ce-kafka/pull/5905#issuecomment-1075167825
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[GitHub] [kafka] LiamClarkeNZ commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
LiamClarkeNZ commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1058786901
> @LiamClarkeNZ , thanks for the PR. LGTM. But there's a bug cause the default idempotent producer is not enabled and get fixed recently. (ref: #11691 ) Could you rebase to the latest trunk and trigger jenkins build again?
>
> Also, I was wrong in this comment: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11691/files#r791886361 , I checked again and found there's only `KafkaStatusBackingStore` class cannot enable idempotent producer because it implement its own `retry` logic, to include `deleted` record [here](https://github.com/apache/kafka/blob/trunk/connect/runtime/src/main/java/org/apache/kafka/connect/storage/KafkaStatusBackingStore.java#L320-L333).
>
> Anyway, looks like even if we don't have this PR, the kafka connect will use idempotent producer by default (with just 1 in-flight request only). cc @mimaison
Thanks @showuon, I have rebased onto trunk and force pushed. I appreciate the review :)
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[GitHub] [kafka] showuon commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
showuon commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1067520890
Failed tests are unrelated:
```
Build / ARM / org.apache.kafka.streams.integration.NamedTopologyIntegrationTest.shouldRemoveOneNamedTopologyWhileAnotherContinuesProcessing
Build / JDK 8 and Scala 2.12 / org.apache.kafka.connect.integration.RebalanceSourceConnectorsIntegrationTest.testDeleteConnector
Build / JDK 8 and Scala 2.12 / kafka.server.KRaftClusterTest.testCreateClusterAndPerformReassignment()
Build / JDK 8 and Scala 2.12 / org.apache.kafka.streams.integration.NamedTopologyIntegrationTest.shouldRemoveOneNamedTopologyWhileAnotherContinuesProcessing
Build / JDK 11 and Scala 2.13 / kafka.server.DynamicBrokerReconfigurationTest.testThreadPoolResize()
Build / JDK 11 and Scala 2.13 / kafka.server.DynamicBrokerReconfigurationTest.testThreadPoolResize()
Build / JDK 11 and Scala 2.13 / org.apache.kafka.streams.integration.NamedTopologyIntegrationTest.shouldRemoveOneNamedTopologyWhileAnotherContinuesProcessing
Build / JDK 17 and Scala 2.13 / kafka.admin.LeaderElectionCommandTest.[1] Type=Raft, Name=testElectionResultOutput, Security=PLAINTEXT
Build / JDK 17 and Scala 2.13 / kafka.server.DynamicBrokerReconfigurationTest.testThreadPoolResize()
Build / JDK 17 and Scala 2.13 / kafka.server.DynamicBrokerReconfigurationTest.testThreadPoolResize()
```
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[GitHub] [kafka] rhauch commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
rhauch commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075711614
Sounds good to me, too. Thanks, @kkonstantine.
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[GitHub] [kafka] LiamClarkeNZ commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
LiamClarkeNZ commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074783688
Hi Luke, Ismael et al,
No worries on adding a comment to that effect in the upgrade docs - but I'm
not sure how to word it, as the idempotent producer was never explicitly
disabled by default in the Kafka Connect Worker. I realise, based on Luke's
recent work to fix KAFKA-13598, that the intended enabling of idempotence
by default with Kafka 3.0 didn't happen either.
So while I just removed the setting of max inflight requests to 1, allowing
the default of 5 to be used, . (I also removed the explicit setting of
acks=all for the same reason), I guess this will be the first version where
Kafka Connect uses idempotent producers by default. So I was thinking of
wording it like this?
*Kafka Connect now uses [idempotent producers](http://link.to.docs.here
<http://link.to.docs.here>) by default, and now defaults to a maximum of 5
inflight requests (five is the uppermost limit supported by idempotent
producers). You can override producer settings controlling this behaviour
using the properties producer.enable.idempotence and
producer.max.inflight.requests*
Actually, do we need to add similar documentation to the upgrade
documentation for 3.0.1, 3.1.1 also? As KC workers based on those version
will now be defaulting to idempotent enabled. The workers in those versions
will still have max.inflight.requests set to 1, but it could be set to 5 by
producer.* overrides, I could add commentary to that regard.
Thanks,
Liam
On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 at 19:07, Luke Chen ***@***.***> wrote:
> @kkonstantine <https://github.com/kkonstantine> , thanks for the comment.
> I agree we add comments in the code to say the idempotent producer is
> enabled by default.
> cc @LiamClarkeNZ <https://github.com/LiamClarkeNZ>
>
> Thank you.
>
> —
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma edited a comment on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma edited a comment on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075173105
@kkonstantine A related question in this other PR https://github.com/confluentinc/ce-kafka/pull/5905#issuecomment-1075167825 that also applies to this one.
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[GitHub] [kafka] kkonstantine commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
kkonstantine commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075693990
@ismael you're bringing up a good point, which I missed in your latest comment before I send my recent reply.
In light of the requirement to explicitly add the IDEMPOTENT_WRITE ACL for Connect workers when talking to Kafka brokers older 2.8 (which I wasn't aware of), I'd like to suggest changing course here as follows:
* Revert KAFKA-7077 from all the branches that has been merged.
* Return to [KIP-318](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-318%3A+Make+Kafka+Connect+Source+idempotent), update it and actually vote for it. @LiamClarkeNZ you referred to this KIP in the description of this PR but I missed that this KIP hasn't been approved and is actually currently marked as inactive. I think we should raise it again after we update it to include all the compatibility requirements and have it target the next major version (4.0).
* Issue a new PR that will explicitly disable idempotency by default in Connect and will allow users to override the setting via the worker and/or the connector configs like we allow it today.
* In the same PR, update our docs to say that despite the Kafka producer enabling idempotency by default in 3.0, due to compatibility requirements Connect chooses to disable idempotency for all the producers that instantiates by default.
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[GitHub] [kafka] LiamClarkeNZ closed pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
LiamClarkeNZ closed pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475
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[GitHub] [kafka] kkonstantine commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
kkonstantine commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075479063
@showuon I noticed that you recently disable idempotency for the status backing store. Now that we remove `acks=all` should we add it there? Is this something we missed with the changes here? And taking an even closer look at the status backing store implementation, I see that retries are handled by that class. So we disable idempotence but are we sure `max.in.flight.requests.per.connection` is 1 there?
Also, re:
> @kkonstantine , thanks for the comment. I agree we add comments in the code to say the idempotent producer is enabled by default.
my intention was actually to add a comment in the code to say what are the configs that we definitely require for the producers in Connect to work as intended. And these are `acks=all`, `max.in.flight.requests.per.connection=1` unless idempotency is enabled given that we have KAFKA-5494 and infinite retries. These requirements were reflected in actual code until this PR was merged. But now they are implied by the defaults of the idempotent producer and that's something I'd like to leave a trail of, so we know what works for Connect.
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[GitHub] [kafka] kkonstantine commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
kkonstantine commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074761446
Thanks for bring this to our attention @ijuma. This change should be fine from Connect's perspective. `acks=all` is now implied instead of explicitly defined and idempotence has been enabled since 3.0.0 and we had decided not to override this setting in Connect.
The property that would give someone pause is the value for `max.in.flight.requests.per.connection` that now is greater than 1. The reassurance that this will work comes from [KAFKA-5494](https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-5494) which unfortunately is not mentioned in the original [KIP-98](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-98+-+Exactly+Once+Delivery+and+Transactional+Messaging) (I see it mentioned in the [KIP-318](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-318%3A+Make+Kafka+Connect+Source+idempotent) that is relevant to Connect).
Having said that, I think it would have been a good idea to leave a comment in the code that would say that Connect requires these configs which are now enabled by default with the idempotent producer.
I also agree that this should go as a notable change in the docs.
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[GitHub] [kafka] showuon commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
showuon commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074794074
Thanks @LiamClarkeNZ !
The wording overall LGTM! Please submit a PR when available. We can comment on the wording there.
> Actually, do we need to add similar documentation to the upgrade
documentation for 3.0.1, 3.1.1 also?
Yes, please add them to 3.0.1 and 3.1.1, too.
Thanks.
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075178283
One other thing: the [IDEMPOTENT_WRITE](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-679%3A+Producer+will+enable+the+strongest+delivery+guarantee+by+default) ACL is required for the Connect worker principal if the kafka cluster is older than 2.8.
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[GitHub] [kafka] showuon commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
showuon commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074510674
@ijuma , I see. Thanks for the reminder. Will do.
@LiamClarkeNZ , please help add a note in 3.2 notable change in upgrade.html. Thanks
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma edited a comment on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma edited a comment on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074116541
@showuon We should add a note to `upgrade.html` for this (and similar types of changes in the future).
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[GitHub] [kafka] kkonstantine edited a comment on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
kkonstantine edited a comment on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075479063
@showuon I noticed that you recently disable idempotency for the status backing store. Now that we remove `acks=all` should we add it there? Is this something we missed with the changes here? And taking an even closer look at the status backing store implementation, I see that retries are handled by that class. So we disable idempotence but are we sure `max.in.flight.requests.per.connection` is 1 there?
Also, re:
> @kkonstantine , thanks for the comment. I agree we add comments in the code to say the idempotent producer is enabled by default.
my intention was actually to add a comment in the code to say what are the configs that we definitely require for the producers in Connect to work as intended. And these are `acks=all`, `max.in.flight.requests.per.connection=1` unless idempotency is enabled given that we have KAFKA-5494 and infinite retries. These requirements were reflected in actual code until this PR was merged. But now they are implied by the defaults of the idempotent producer and that's something I'd like to leave a trail of, so we know what works for Connect.
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[GitHub] [kafka] showuon merged pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
showuon merged pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475
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[GitHub] [kafka] showuon commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
showuon commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074774576
@kkonstantine , thanks for the comment. I agree we add comments in the code to say the idempotent producer is enabled by default.
cc @LiamClarkeNZ
Thank you.
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075696440
That sounds good to me. Let's make sure we include these changes in 3.0.x and 3.1.x as well. For the latter, we still have time to make it for 3.1.1.
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[GitHub] [kafka] showuon commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
showuon commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1075815779
Thanks @kkonstantine !
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[GitHub] [kafka] ijuma commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
ijuma commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074114315
@kkonstantine @rhauch Is it OK to enable idempotence by default in this case? Are there any compatibility or behavior concerns?
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[GitHub] [kafka] LiamClarkeNZ commented on pull request #11475: KAFKA-7077: Use default producer settings in Connect Worker
Posted by GitBox <gi...@apache.org>.
LiamClarkeNZ commented on pull request #11475:
URL: https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074795068
Cheers Luke, will do :)
On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 at 19:43, Luke Chen ***@***.***> wrote:
> Thanks @LiamClarkeNZ <https://github.com/LiamClarkeNZ> !
>
> The wording overall LGTM! Please submit a PR when available. We can
> comment on the wording there.
>
> Actually, do we need to add similar documentation to the upgrade
> documentation for 3.0.1, 3.1.1 also?
>
> Yes, please add them to 3.0.1 and 3.1.1, too.
> Thanks.
>
> —
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/11475#issuecomment-1074794074>, or
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