Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Are there any committers who can answer my question? Or respond to my
suggestion?

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 7:42 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Thank you. I have a follow-up question.
>
> Is the thrift community dependent on just a few individuals with
> specific duties? It seems so from the responses.
>
> If that is the case, I would highly encourage the thrift developers to
> try to grow their community by adding new committers and PMC members,
> who can perform some of these tasks. Nothing should be dependent on a
> single individual, or a small group of individuals. Release
> management, including publishing to Maven Central, should be something
> that any PMC member can perform. And, responding to questions/issues
> in a timely manner should be something that is the responsibility of
> any PMC member or committer.
>
> If the problem isn't one of limited responsibility, but rather one of
> limited expertise, then I would recommend adding some stuff to the
> thrift website that documents how to perform a release, and try to
> train other community members with that information.
>
> On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 4:33 PM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry Christopher, I founded a new company and haven't had any time for the
> > usual duties like this.  I'll take care of it this weekend.
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 5:45 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I agree, and I already reached out to the maven maintainer.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > From: Christopher
> > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:44 PM
> > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > Subject: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
> > >
> > > Can a committer or PMC member please respond to the numerous requests
> > > for information about the 0.13.0 release artifacts in Maven Central at
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4998 ?
> > >
> > > It has been over a week, and nobody is replying to the users who took
> > > the time to report the issue to the developers. This is a very
> > > unfriendly way to treat Thrift's user community.
> > >
> > > Please respond, somebody.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >

Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Thanks for the response, Can!
That was very helpful information. I appreciate you taking the time to
explain and to point me to a specific issue where improvements are
being made to the website that relates to my concerns about community
health.
I will continue to watch the list, and follow some of the tickets a
bit more in this area, to see if there's any place for me to help out
when I can.

-Christopher

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 6:08 AM Duru Can Celasun <dc...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Apologies for the delay.  I'll answer inline.
>
> On Mon, 9 Dec 2019, at 10:42, Christopher wrote:
> > Ping. Are there any active committers at all? Do the devs read the
> > developer mailing list?
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:34 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Are there any committers who can answer my question? Or respond to my
> > > suggestion?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 7:42 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you. I have a follow-up question.
> > > >
> > > > Is the thrift community dependent on just a few individuals with
> > > > specific duties? It seems so from the responses.
>
> While nobody is formally assigned any specific duties, it's true that few individuals have the access, know how and experience to handle certain duties.
>
> Only a handful of committers are active and due to the multi-language nature of thrift, expertise is usually limited to a few languages each.
>
> > > >
> > > > If that is the case, I would highly encourage the thrift developers to
> > > > try to grow their community by adding new committers and PMC members,
> > > > who can perform some of these tasks. Nothing should be dependent on a
> > > > single individual, or a small group of individuals. Release
> > > > management, including publishing to Maven Central, should be something
> > > > that any PMC member can perform. And, responding to questions/issues
> > > > in a timely manner should be something that is the responsibility of
> > > > any PMC member or committer.
>
> New committers are added every year, but activity levels are not at a level where every single issue can be handled in a timely manner. As for release management, see below.
>
> > > >
> > > > If the problem isn't one of limited responsibility, but rather one of
> > > > limited expertise, then I would recommend adding some stuff to the
> > > > thrift website that documents how to perform a release, and try to
> > > > train other community members with that information.
>
> We are working on new version of the website [1] that will update and merge various bits of documentation, particularly about thrift internals, which should make it easier for new contributors to be onboarded.
>
> We also have docs for release management [2] but few are familiar with it and it doesn't yet include instructions for language specific package managers.
>
> I appreaciate your concerns, we are aware of the problems and there is ongoing work on improving things on all fronts. It simply takes a lot of time as there are only a handful of us and we all work on thrift in our spare time.
>
> Best,
> Can
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4710
> [2] https://github.com/apache/thrift/blob/master/doc/ReleaseManagement.md
>
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 4:33 PM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry Christopher, I founded a new company and haven't had any time for the
> > > > > usual duties like this.  I'll take care of it this weekend.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 5:45 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree, and I already reached out to the maven maintainer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > > > From: Christopher
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:44 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can a committer or PMC member please respond to the numerous requests
> > > > > > for information about the 0.13.0 release artifacts in Maven Central at
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4998 ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It has been over a week, and nobody is replying to the users who took
> > > > > > the time to report the issue to the developers. This is a very
> > > > > > unfriendly way to treat Thrift's user community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please respond, somebody.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >

Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

[Duru Can Celasun <dc...@apache.org>]

Apologies for the delay.  I'll answer inline.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019, at 10:42, Christopher wrote:
> Ping. Are there any active committers at all? Do the devs read the
> developer mailing list?
> 
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:34 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Are there any committers who can answer my question? Or respond to my
> > suggestion?
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 7:42 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you. I have a follow-up question.
> > >
> > > Is the thrift community dependent on just a few individuals with
> > > specific duties? It seems so from the responses.

While nobody is formally assigned any specific duties, it's true that few individuals have the access, know how and experience to handle certain duties.

Only a handful of committers are active and due to the multi-language nature of thrift, expertise is usually limited to a few languages each.

> > >
> > > If that is the case, I would highly encourage the thrift developers to
> > > try to grow their community by adding new committers and PMC members,
> > > who can perform some of these tasks. Nothing should be dependent on a
> > > single individual, or a small group of individuals. Release
> > > management, including publishing to Maven Central, should be something
> > > that any PMC member can perform. And, responding to questions/issues
> > > in a timely manner should be something that is the responsibility of
> > > any PMC member or committer.

New committers are added every year, but activity levels are not at a level where every single issue can be handled in a timely manner. As for release management, see below.

> > >
> > > If the problem isn't one of limited responsibility, but rather one of
> > > limited expertise, then I would recommend adding some stuff to the
> > > thrift website that documents how to perform a release, and try to
> > > train other community members with that information.

We are working on new version of the website [1] that will update and merge various bits of documentation, particularly about thrift internals, which should make it easier for new contributors to be onboarded. 

We also have docs for release management [2] but few are familiar with it and it doesn't yet include instructions for language specific package managers.

I appreaciate your concerns, we are aware of the problems and there is ongoing work on improving things on all fronts. It simply takes a lot of time as there are only a handful of us and we all work on thrift in our spare time.

Best,
Can

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4710
[2] https://github.com/apache/thrift/blob/master/doc/ReleaseManagement.md

> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 4:33 PM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Christopher, I founded a new company and haven't had any time for the
> > > > usual duties like this.  I'll take care of it this weekend.
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 5:45 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree, and I already reached out to the maven maintainer.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > > From: Christopher
> > > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:44 PM
> > > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
> > > > >
> > > > > Can a committer or PMC member please respond to the numerous requests
> > > > > for information about the 0.13.0 release artifacts in Maven Central at
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4998 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > It has been over a week, and nobody is replying to the users who took
> > > > > the time to report the issue to the developers. This is a very
> > > > > unfriendly way to treat Thrift's user community.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please respond, somebody.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > >
>

Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

I discussed this in Slack with Jens. I incorrectly assumed that my
email was ignored for two weeks when I pinged the list back multiple
times, instead of checking the list archives to see if there was an
email that I never received.... which there was. Jens had already
provided an answer to my questions the first time... which I
appreciate. I only wish I had seen it before replying. This mistake
was mine, and avoidable. Sorry for that.

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:57 AM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On what behalf are you asking?
>
> You want to contribute yourself? Fine, do it.
>
> You want to force people into spending their private time on your personal
> needs? Fine, try it. And good luck.
>
> I already wrote a lengthy answer (too long IMO) and I do not intend to write
> more.
>
> Contrary to what you might think, nobody owes you a thing.
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> From: Christopher
> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:42 AM
> To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
>
> Ping. Are there any active committers at all? Do the devs read the
> developer mailing list?
>
> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:34 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Are there any committers who can answer my question? Or respond to my
> > suggestion?
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 7:42 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you. I have a follow-up question.
> > >
> > > Is the thrift community dependent on just a few individuals with
> > > specific duties? It seems so from the responses.
> > >
> > > If that is the case, I would highly encourage the thrift developers to
> > > try to grow their community by adding new committers and PMC members,
> > > who can perform some of these tasks. Nothing should be dependent on a
> > > single individual, or a small group of individuals. Release
> > > management, including publishing to Maven Central, should be something
> > > that any PMC member can perform. And, responding to questions/issues
> > > in a timely manner should be something that is the responsibility of
> > > any PMC member or committer.
> > >
> > > If the problem isn't one of limited responsibility, but rather one of
> > > limited expertise, then I would recommend adding some stuff to the
> > > thrift website that documents how to perform a release, and try to
> > > train other community members with that information.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 4:33 PM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Christopher, I founded a new company and haven't had any time
> > > > for the
> > > > usual duties like this.  I'll take care of it this weekend.
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 5:45 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree, and I already reached out to the maven maintainer.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > > From: Christopher
> > > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:44 PM
> > > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
> > > > >
> > > > > Can a committer or PMC member please respond to the numerous
> > > > > requests
> > > > > for information about the 0.13.0 release artifacts in Maven Central
> > > > > at
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4998 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > It has been over a week, and nobody is replying to the users who
> > > > > took
> > > > > the time to report the issue to the developers. This is a very
> > > > > unfriendly way to treat Thrift's user community.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please respond, somebody.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > >
>

Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

[Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com>]

On what behalf are you asking?

You want to contribute yourself? Fine, do it.

You want to force people into spending their private time on your personal 
needs? Fine, try it. And good luck.

I already wrote a lengthy answer (too long IMO) and I do not intend to write 
more.

Contrary to what you might think, nobody owes you a thing.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
From: Christopher
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 11:42 AM
To: dev@thrift.apache.org
Subject: Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

Ping. Are there any active committers at all? Do the devs read the
developer mailing list?

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:34 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Are there any committers who can answer my question? Or respond to my
> suggestion?
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 7:42 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you. I have a follow-up question.
> >
> > Is the thrift community dependent on just a few individuals with
> > specific duties? It seems so from the responses.
> >
> > If that is the case, I would highly encourage the thrift developers to
> > try to grow their community by adding new committers and PMC members,
> > who can perform some of these tasks. Nothing should be dependent on a
> > single individual, or a small group of individuals. Release
> > management, including publishing to Maven Central, should be something
> > that any PMC member can perform. And, responding to questions/issues
> > in a timely manner should be something that is the responsibility of
> > any PMC member or committer.
> >
> > If the problem isn't one of limited responsibility, but rather one of
> > limited expertise, then I would recommend adding some stuff to the
> > thrift website that documents how to perform a release, and try to
> > train other community members with that information.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 4:33 PM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry Christopher, I founded a new company and haven't had any time 
> > > for the
> > > usual duties like this.  I'll take care of it this weekend.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 5:45 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree, and I already reached out to the maven maintainer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > From: Christopher
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:44 PM
> > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
> > > >
> > > > Can a committer or PMC member please respond to the numerous 
> > > > requests
> > > > for information about the 0.13.0 release artifacts in Maven Central 
> > > > at
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4998 ?
> > > >
> > > > It has been over a week, and nobody is replying to the users who 
> > > > took
> > > > the time to report the issue to the developers. This is a very
> > > > unfriendly way to treat Thrift's user community.
> > > >
> > > > Please respond, somebody.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > 

Re: Please respond to THRIFT-4998

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Ping. Are there any active committers at all? Do the devs read the
developer mailing list?

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:34 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Are there any committers who can answer my question? Or respond to my
> suggestion?
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 7:42 PM Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you. I have a follow-up question.
> >
> > Is the thrift community dependent on just a few individuals with
> > specific duties? It seems so from the responses.
> >
> > If that is the case, I would highly encourage the thrift developers to
> > try to grow their community by adding new committers and PMC members,
> > who can perform some of these tasks. Nothing should be dependent on a
> > single individual, or a small group of individuals. Release
> > management, including publishing to Maven Central, should be something
> > that any PMC member can perform. And, responding to questions/issues
> > in a timely manner should be something that is the responsibility of
> > any PMC member or committer.
> >
> > If the problem isn't one of limited responsibility, but rather one of
> > limited expertise, then I would recommend adding some stuff to the
> > thrift website that documents how to perform a release, and try to
> > train other community members with that information.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 4:33 PM James E. King III <jk...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry Christopher, I founded a new company and haven't had any time for the
> > > usual duties like this.  I'll take care of it this weekend.
> > >
> > > - Jim
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 5:45 PM Jens Geyer <je...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree, and I already reached out to the maven maintainer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > From: Christopher
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:44 PM
> > > > To: dev@thrift.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Please respond to THRIFT-4998
> > > >
> > > > Can a committer or PMC member please respond to the numerous requests
> > > > for information about the 0.13.0 release artifacts in Maven Central at
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/THRIFT-4998 ?
> > > >
> > > > It has been over a week, and nobody is replying to the users who took
> > > > the time to report the issue to the developers. This is a very
> > > > unfriendly way to treat Thrift's user community.
> > > >
> > > > Please respond, somebody.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > >