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Posted to marketing@cloudstack.apache.org by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> on 2013/04/10 00:32:32 UTC
Typical process for getting approval for events/sponsorship
(Note the mixing of public and private lists.)
ConCom folks,
Please see this thread:
Events Approval
http://s.apache.org/1dc
The first email should be enough. No need to read it all.
So, what I'm wondering is: what is the typical process for getting approval
for events or event sponsorship like this?
Does ConCom need to be notified every time? Or is there a threshold? So,
for example, if you're just doing a small meet-up, then there's no need.
Also, I understand that project PMCs typically need to approve events,
sponsorship, and branding proposals. Do you know how this is usually done?
Would an a proposal like that be made to the dev@ list? Is that sufficient
to demonstrate PMC approval? Or are these requests usually CCed to
private@also? Note in this instance, the request as made to
marketing@,
which is a public list, but was split off from dev@ for convenience.
Thanks!
--
NS
Re: Typical process for getting approval for events/sponsorship
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Just following up on this. (Sorry to be a pain!)
There are a few questions in the last email that need clarification before
we're able to update our events / sponsorship approval process.
On 9 April 2013 23:56, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> Hi Noah,
>
> As with so many things around here it's all a little ill-defined. My
> reading of the tea leaves would say...
>
> - Since you are seeking permission to spend third party cash supporting an
> ASF project, and are not using foundation level brands to further a
> companies interests beyond a specific project there is no need to seek
> approval from ConCom
>
> - You do need approval from the project PMC to use project branding at
> these events. It is up to the PMC to decide how that approval is sought. I
> note that your wiki page at [1] has some pretty good guidelines for when
> such approval is needed (note my statement above means you can relax
> the one about event sponsorship, assuming nobody here disagrees with me).
>
> - As for how to get PMC approval I would, again, suggest this is up to the
> PMCs. I'm always in favour of using lazy consensus as much as possible. So
> if your PMC were to agree with my view then a mail to the designated list
> (sometimes people want to keep financial information private) plus a
> minimum of 72 hours for objections to be raised would be sufficient. Such a
> policy can always be revisited if people start to abuse it.
>
> Originally ConCom approval was required for all events. However, we have no
> switched to a model of lazy consensus on the use of project brands since we
> were failing to give a timely response in some cases. Where ConCom should
> be involved is if you are using foundation level brands.
>
> It's also good practice (if not required) to notify ConCom of events your
> PMC has approved since we might be able to help get the word out and/or
> support your efforts in other ways.
>
> [ASIDE: See you at LinuxTag in May]
>
> Ross
>
> [1]
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Trademark+Guidelines+(DRAFT)
>
>
> On 9 April 2013 23:32, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > (Note the mixing of public and private lists.)
> >
> > ConCom folks,
> >
> > Please see this thread:
> >
> > Events Approval
> > http://s.apache.org/1dc
> >
> > The first email should be enough. No need to read it all.
> >
> > So, what I'm wondering is: what is the typical process for getting
> > approval for events or event sponsorship like this?
> >
> > Does ConCom need to be notified every time? Or is there a threshold? So,
> > for example, if you're just doing a small meet-up, then there's no need.
> >
> > Also, I understand that project PMCs typically need to approve events,
> > sponsorship, and branding proposals. Do you know how this is usually
> done?
> > Would an a proposal like that be made to the dev@ list? Is that
> > sufficient to demonstrate PMC approval? Or are these requests usually
> CCed
> > to private@ also? Note in this instance, the request as made to
> marketing@,
> > which is a public list, but was split off from dev@ for convenience.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > NS
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
--
NS
Re: Typical process for getting approval for events/sponsorship
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Thanks for the response, Ross. (And sorry for the late response.)
One thing that just came up on trademarks@ is that Shane mentioned ConCom
is the place to discuss branding/trademarks, as they relate to events. I
just wanted to check that this was your understanding also. i.e. I have a
few ideas for that event management process you mention ;) but I am trying
to figure out which lists need to be notified.
My current thinking is that, at a minimum, we ask people to:
1) Send an email to concom@ with [event details] and CC the CloudStack PMC
2) Send an email to trademarks@ with [branding details] and CC the
CloudStack PMC
Based on Shane's feedback, I am uncertain now whether 2) is needed. Or
perhaps another option is to combine them both. We could have a guide to
what sort of information you need to put in a proposal, and then ask that
it is sent to concom@, trademarks@, and private@cloudstack.a.o for lazy
consensus.
What are your thoughts?
On 16 April 2013 14:47, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> On 10 April 2013 00:21, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Gotcha.
> >
> > I guess the source of my confusion here is what "PMC approval" actually
> > means, in practice. My knee-jerk reaction was that private@ should be
> CCed
> > or something. But I guess, as a project, we are free to say that we're
> going
> > to be doing event/sponsership proposals on marketing@ and they can pass
> by
> > lazy consensus there. And if you're a PMC member and you want input into
> > that, then you had better subscribe to the marketing@ list. Does that
> sound
> > about right? If so, I expect we'll want to at least write that down
> > somewhere.
>
> That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, as long as your PMC agrees. As
> a courtesy I'd probably notify the broader community if there were
> anything controversial but in most cases there won't be controversy
> and there will be no need to involve the whole community.
>
> Having said that I never like to have highly focussed lists.
> Personally I'd conduct the marketing stuff on the dev list. But you
> are free, as a PMC, to define that yourself. You know the volume of
> mail these lists is creating and thus you know when to split them,
> it's just my experience is to do it a good while after the first,
> second, third and even fourth proposal to do so ;-)
>
> All we (ConCom) care about is that your events conform to the
> trademark policies. So, as long as you have a way of enforcing those
> policies then all is good.
>
> > I also expect that we should add a step to the event/sponsorship approval
> > process that includes *notifying* ConCom, but makes it explicit that this
> > isn't an approval step. Is concom@apache.org the preferred address for
> that?
>
> I hope that we (ConCom) get our act together one day and maintain a
> calendar of events our projects are engaged in. Notifying us of these
> is a good start. It also provides that extra sanity check on your
> approval process, but you should consider it lazy consensus.
>
> concom@apache.org is (today) the right list. Nick is in the process of
> updating the way the lists work and that may change.
>
> > And would you prefer it as a CC on the original proposal, or as a
> > notification once the proposal passes?
>
> Personally I don't care and since nobody has spoken up I guess none of us
> do ;-)
>
> Thanks for progressing this. Another thing I hope ConCom will do in
> the near future is point projects to your event management process as
> an example of how to do it.
>
> Ross
>
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > On 9 April 2013 23:56, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Noah,
> >>
> >> As with so many things around here it's all a little ill-defined. My
> >> reading of the tea leaves would say...
> >>
> >> - Since you are seeking permission to spend third party cash supporting
> an
> >> ASF project, and are not using foundation level brands to further a
> >> companies interests beyond a specific project there is no need to seek
> >> approval from ConCom
> >>
> >> - You do need approval from the project PMC to use project branding at
> >> these events. It is up to the PMC to decide how that approval is
> sought. I
> >> note that your wiki page at [1] has some pretty good guidelines for when
> >> such approval is needed (note my statement above means you can relax
> >> the one about event sponsorship, assuming nobody here disagrees with
> me).
> >>
> >> - As for how to get PMC approval I would, again, suggest this is up to
> the
> >> PMCs. I'm always in favour of using lazy consensus as much as possible.
> So
> >> if your PMC were to agree with my view then a mail to the designated
> list
> >> (sometimes people want to keep financial information private) plus a
> >> minimum of 72 hours for objections to be raised would be sufficient.
> Such
> >> a
> >> policy can always be revisited if people start to abuse it.
> >>
> >> Originally ConCom approval was required for all events. However, we have
> >> no
> >> switched to a model of lazy consensus on the use of project brands since
> >> we
> >> were failing to give a timely response in some cases. Where ConCom
> should
> >> be involved is if you are using foundation level brands.
> >>
> >> It's also good practice (if not required) to notify ConCom of events
> your
> >> PMC has approved since we might be able to help get the word out and/or
> >> support your efforts in other ways.
> >>
> >> [ASIDE: See you at LinuxTag in May]
> >>
> >> Ross
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Trademark+Guidelines+(DRAFT)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9 April 2013 23:32, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > (Note the mixing of public and private lists.)
> >> >
> >> > ConCom folks,
> >> >
> >> > Please see this thread:
> >> >
> >> > Events Approval
> >> > http://s.apache.org/1dc
> >> >
> >> > The first email should be enough. No need to read it all.
> >> >
> >> > So, what I'm wondering is: what is the typical process for getting
> >> > approval for events or event sponsorship like this?
> >> >
> >> > Does ConCom need to be notified every time? Or is there a threshold?
> So,
> >> > for example, if you're just doing a small meet-up, then there's no
> need.
> >> >
> >> > Also, I understand that project PMCs typically need to approve events,
> >> > sponsorship, and branding proposals. Do you know how this is usually
> >> > done?
> >> > Would an a proposal like that be made to the dev@ list? Is that
> >> > sufficient to demonstrate PMC approval? Or are these requests usually
> >> > CCed
> >> > to private@ also? Note in this instance, the request as made to
> >> > marketing@,
> >> > which is a public list, but was split off from dev@ for convenience.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > NS
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>
--
NS
Re: Typical process for getting approval for events/sponsorship
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 10 April 2013 00:21, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Gotcha.
>
> I guess the source of my confusion here is what "PMC approval" actually
> means, in practice. My knee-jerk reaction was that private@ should be CCed
> or something. But I guess, as a project, we are free to say that we're going
> to be doing event/sponsership proposals on marketing@ and they can pass by
> lazy consensus there. And if you're a PMC member and you want input into
> that, then you had better subscribe to the marketing@ list. Does that sound
> about right? If so, I expect we'll want to at least write that down
> somewhere.
That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, as long as your PMC agrees. As
a courtesy I'd probably notify the broader community if there were
anything controversial but in most cases there won't be controversy
and there will be no need to involve the whole community.
Having said that I never like to have highly focussed lists.
Personally I'd conduct the marketing stuff on the dev list. But you
are free, as a PMC, to define that yourself. You know the volume of
mail these lists is creating and thus you know when to split them,
it's just my experience is to do it a good while after the first,
second, third and even fourth proposal to do so ;-)
All we (ConCom) care about is that your events conform to the
trademark policies. So, as long as you have a way of enforcing those
policies then all is good.
> I also expect that we should add a step to the event/sponsorship approval
> process that includes *notifying* ConCom, but makes it explicit that this
> isn't an approval step. Is concom@apache.org the preferred address for that?
I hope that we (ConCom) get our act together one day and maintain a
calendar of events our projects are engaged in. Notifying us of these
is a good start. It also provides that extra sanity check on your
approval process, but you should consider it lazy consensus.
concom@apache.org is (today) the right list. Nick is in the process of
updating the way the lists work and that may change.
> And would you prefer it as a CC on the original proposal, or as a
> notification once the proposal passes?
Personally I don't care and since nobody has spoken up I guess none of us do ;-)
Thanks for progressing this. Another thing I hope ConCom will do in
the near future is point projects to your event management process as
an example of how to do it.
Ross
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> On 9 April 2013 23:56, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Noah,
>>
>> As with so many things around here it's all a little ill-defined. My
>> reading of the tea leaves would say...
>>
>> - Since you are seeking permission to spend third party cash supporting an
>> ASF project, and are not using foundation level brands to further a
>> companies interests beyond a specific project there is no need to seek
>> approval from ConCom
>>
>> - You do need approval from the project PMC to use project branding at
>> these events. It is up to the PMC to decide how that approval is sought. I
>> note that your wiki page at [1] has some pretty good guidelines for when
>> such approval is needed (note my statement above means you can relax
>> the one about event sponsorship, assuming nobody here disagrees with me).
>>
>> - As for how to get PMC approval I would, again, suggest this is up to the
>> PMCs. I'm always in favour of using lazy consensus as much as possible. So
>> if your PMC were to agree with my view then a mail to the designated list
>> (sometimes people want to keep financial information private) plus a
>> minimum of 72 hours for objections to be raised would be sufficient. Such
>> a
>> policy can always be revisited if people start to abuse it.
>>
>> Originally ConCom approval was required for all events. However, we have
>> no
>> switched to a model of lazy consensus on the use of project brands since
>> we
>> were failing to give a timely response in some cases. Where ConCom should
>> be involved is if you are using foundation level brands.
>>
>> It's also good practice (if not required) to notify ConCom of events your
>> PMC has approved since we might be able to help get the word out and/or
>> support your efforts in other ways.
>>
>> [ASIDE: See you at LinuxTag in May]
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Trademark+Guidelines+(DRAFT)
>>
>>
>> On 9 April 2013 23:32, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > (Note the mixing of public and private lists.)
>> >
>> > ConCom folks,
>> >
>> > Please see this thread:
>> >
>> > Events Approval
>> > http://s.apache.org/1dc
>> >
>> > The first email should be enough. No need to read it all.
>> >
>> > So, what I'm wondering is: what is the typical process for getting
>> > approval for events or event sponsorship like this?
>> >
>> > Does ConCom need to be notified every time? Or is there a threshold? So,
>> > for example, if you're just doing a small meet-up, then there's no need.
>> >
>> > Also, I understand that project PMCs typically need to approve events,
>> > sponsorship, and branding proposals. Do you know how this is usually
>> > done?
>> > Would an a proposal like that be made to the dev@ list? Is that
>> > sufficient to demonstrate PMC approval? Or are these requests usually
>> > CCed
>> > to private@ also? Note in this instance, the request as made to
>> > marketing@,
>> > which is a public list, but was split off from dev@ for convenience.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > --
>> > NS
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: Typical process for getting approval for events/sponsorship
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Gotcha.
I guess the source of my confusion here is what "PMC approval" actually
means, in practice. My knee-jerk reaction was that private@ should be CCed
or something. But I guess, as a project, we are free to say that we're
going to be doing event/sponsership proposals on marketing@ and they can
pass by lazy consensus there. And if you're a PMC member and you want input
into that, then you had better subscribe to the marketing@ list. Does that
sound about right? If so, I expect we'll want to at least write that down
somewhere.
I also expect that we should add a step to the event/sponsorship approval
process that includes *notifying* ConCom, but makes it explicit that this
isn't an approval step. Is concom@apache.org the preferred address for
that? And would you prefer it as a CC on the original proposal, or as a
notification once the proposal passes?
Thanks!
On 9 April 2013 23:56, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> Hi Noah,
>
> As with so many things around here it's all a little ill-defined. My
> reading of the tea leaves would say...
>
> - Since you are seeking permission to spend third party cash supporting an
> ASF project, and are not using foundation level brands to further a
> companies interests beyond a specific project there is no need to seek
> approval from ConCom
>
> - You do need approval from the project PMC to use project branding at
> these events. It is up to the PMC to decide how that approval is sought. I
> note that your wiki page at [1] has some pretty good guidelines for when
> such approval is needed (note my statement above means you can relax
> the one about event sponsorship, assuming nobody here disagrees with me).
>
> - As for how to get PMC approval I would, again, suggest this is up to the
> PMCs. I'm always in favour of using lazy consensus as much as possible. So
> if your PMC were to agree with my view then a mail to the designated list
> (sometimes people want to keep financial information private) plus a
> minimum of 72 hours for objections to be raised would be sufficient. Such a
> policy can always be revisited if people start to abuse it.
>
> Originally ConCom approval was required for all events. However, we have no
> switched to a model of lazy consensus on the use of project brands since we
> were failing to give a timely response in some cases. Where ConCom should
> be involved is if you are using foundation level brands.
>
> It's also good practice (if not required) to notify ConCom of events your
> PMC has approved since we might be able to help get the word out and/or
> support your efforts in other ways.
>
> [ASIDE: See you at LinuxTag in May]
>
> Ross
>
> [1]
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Trademark+Guidelines+(DRAFT)
>
>
> On 9 April 2013 23:32, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > (Note the mixing of public and private lists.)
> >
> > ConCom folks,
> >
> > Please see this thread:
> >
> > Events Approval
> > http://s.apache.org/1dc
> >
> > The first email should be enough. No need to read it all.
> >
> > So, what I'm wondering is: what is the typical process for getting
> > approval for events or event sponsorship like this?
> >
> > Does ConCom need to be notified every time? Or is there a threshold? So,
> > for example, if you're just doing a small meet-up, then there's no need.
> >
> > Also, I understand that project PMCs typically need to approve events,
> > sponsorship, and branding proposals. Do you know how this is usually
> done?
> > Would an a proposal like that be made to the dev@ list? Is that
> > sufficient to demonstrate PMC approval? Or are these requests usually
> CCed
> > to private@ also? Note in this instance, the request as made to
> marketing@,
> > which is a public list, but was split off from dev@ for convenience.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > NS
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
--
NS
Re: Typical process for getting approval for events/sponsorship
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
Hi Noah,
As with so many things around here it's all a little ill-defined. My
reading of the tea leaves would say...
- Since you are seeking permission to spend third party cash supporting an
ASF project, and are not using foundation level brands to further a
companies interests beyond a specific project there is no need to seek
approval from ConCom
- You do need approval from the project PMC to use project branding at
these events. It is up to the PMC to decide how that approval is sought. I
note that your wiki page at [1] has some pretty good guidelines for when
such approval is needed (note my statement above means you can relax
the one about event sponsorship, assuming nobody here disagrees with me).
- As for how to get PMC approval I would, again, suggest this is up to the
PMCs. I'm always in favour of using lazy consensus as much as possible. So
if your PMC were to agree with my view then a mail to the designated list
(sometimes people want to keep financial information private) plus a
minimum of 72 hours for objections to be raised would be sufficient. Such a
policy can always be revisited if people start to abuse it.
Originally ConCom approval was required for all events. However, we have no
switched to a model of lazy consensus on the use of project brands since we
were failing to give a timely response in some cases. Where ConCom should
be involved is if you are using foundation level brands.
It's also good practice (if not required) to notify ConCom of events your
PMC has approved since we might be able to help get the word out and/or
support your efforts in other ways.
[ASIDE: See you at LinuxTag in May]
Ross
[1]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Trademark+Guidelines+(DRAFT)
On 9 April 2013 23:32, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> (Note the mixing of public and private lists.)
>
> ConCom folks,
>
> Please see this thread:
>
> Events Approval
> http://s.apache.org/1dc
>
> The first email should be enough. No need to read it all.
>
> So, what I'm wondering is: what is the typical process for getting
> approval for events or event sponsorship like this?
>
> Does ConCom need to be notified every time? Or is there a threshold? So,
> for example, if you're just doing a small meet-up, then there's no need.
>
> Also, I understand that project PMCs typically need to approve events,
> sponsorship, and branding proposals. Do you know how this is usually done?
> Would an a proposal like that be made to the dev@ list? Is that
> sufficient to demonstrate PMC approval? Or are these requests usually CCed
> to private@ also? Note in this instance, the request as made to marketing@,
> which is a public list, but was split off from dev@ for convenience.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> NS
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com