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Posted to marketing@openoffice.apache.org by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> on 2013/02/05 07:31:59 UTC
Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Picking a logo, hmmm.
First part is dates.
We could find our dates by working backwards:
1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
3. When do we need to start a final vote.
4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
5. When is proposal deadline.
Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the schedule
so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss it.
Second part is voting:
How do we pick a logo by voting:
- We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on the
next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
- Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the mailing
lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
Third part is criteria:
- What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
- What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this point in
time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our feedbacks.
Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
populating this, such as dates.
Samer
On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> > I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of us
can
> > have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use alphabets
> > for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>
> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define some
> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the end
> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand, means a
> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app icon,
> webpage, intro, about, ...)
>
> Just my opinion
>
> Juergen
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 2/7/13 4:38 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> The logo which suits IBM may not suite AOO. IBM can afford to just draw
> three lines, and spend tonnes of money to say the first line stands for I
> second for B and so on.
>
> It is not required to take their comment very seriously. If they have
> suggested any thing constructive, it can be considered. I want to remind
> the article, "How to paint the ........"
I really don't see the context here but anyway.
@Samer, no I don't think we have to move forward with a contest. A team
effort is perfect and in the end the result is important. Please
continue and take leadership here, I am sure the majority of the
community appreciate if somebody takes the responsibility to drive this
important topic for 4.0 forward.
I really like how it evolves currently and that new people take
leadership for certain tasks.
Thanks
Juergen
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 7 February 2013 20:42, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
>> effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
>>
>> In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
>> the best practices and most liked parts.
>> In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
>> them out.
>>
>> I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
>>
>> We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
>> promotional video.
>> I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
>> process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
>> Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
>> well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
>>
>> I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
>> volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
>> waiting.
>>
>> I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
>> work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
>> Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host them
>> on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
>> I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
>> volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
>>
>> I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
>> just to confirm what I make is fine.
>> I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
>> talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
>>
>> Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with the
>> designers and changing this effort to team based?
>>
>> Samer
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that has
>>> been
>>> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
>>> devote some time to AOO once again.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>> I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
>>> lunch
>>>> and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>>>>
>>>> Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips
>> and
>>>> feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly
>> of
>>>> it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but
>> we'll
>>>> leave it up as what not to do...
>>>
>>> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience
>> however.
>>> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old
>> OOo
>>> art
>>> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
>>> again!
>>> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
>>>
>>> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in
>> the
>>> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal for
>>> the
>>> RFP thread on Gmane here:
>>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
>>>
>>>
>>> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
>>> need
>>> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, they
>>> are
>>> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
>>>
>>> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
>>>
>>> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
>>> impact, be
>>> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
>>> languages.
>>> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global
>> brand
>>> and the brand has to reflect that.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and
>> ask
>>>> them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
>>>> knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>>>>
>>>> I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have
>> to
>>>> do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to
>> hear
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out
>> detailed
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> 1. It has to be reproducible.
>>>> Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
>>> feathers
>>>> would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the
>> logo,
>>>> but it can be part of a website design or splash screen,
>> refresh/changes
>>>> with versions.
>>>>
>>>> 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can
>> make
>>>> them related though.
>>>> Tips for icons
>>>> - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
>>>> - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
>>>> fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
>>> user
>>>> visually in the icon.
>>>> - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner
>> to
>>>> tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
>>>> - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize
>> well,
>>> ie
>>>> C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get
>> away
>>>> with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Font
>>>> What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm
>> stuck
>>> in
>>>> the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
>>> everyday
>>>> folk, they like sleek.
>>>
>>> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
>>> with
>>> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
>>> end.
>>> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will
>> push
>>> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of
>>> our
>>> end users are non-techy
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
>>>> - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying
>>> to
>>>> integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
>>> original.
>>>> Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
>>> where
>>>> the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They
>> are
>>>> part of it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
>>>> feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I
>> will
>>>> quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have
>> something
>>>> to aim for.
>>>>
>>>> Samer
>>>
>>> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build a
>>> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> GL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>>>> Picking a logo, hmmm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First part is dates.
>>>>>> We could find our dates by working backwards:
>>>>>> 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>>>>>
>>>>> we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet
>> because
>>>>> we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
>>> later
>>>>> this month.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
>>>>>> integrate).
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
>>>>> need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
>>> logo,
>>>>> banner logo etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> aligned with 2.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> not sure if this is needed at all
>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. When is proposal deadline.
>>>>>> Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
>>>>>
>>>>> schedule
>>>>>
>>>>>> so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Second part is voting:
>>>>>> How do we pick a logo by voting:
>>>>>> - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol,
>> the
>>>>>> weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again
>>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did
>> not.
>>>>>> - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
>>>>>> mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
>>> too
>>>>> many. But I am flexible
>>>>>
>>>>>> Third part is criteria:
>>>>>> - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
>>>>>> - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>>>>>
>>>>> at least free and proper licensed font
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to
>> demonstrate
>>>>> continuity.
>>>>>
>>>>> We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
>>>>> merchandising material has some advantages.
>>>>>
>>>>>> From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
>>>>>> point>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
>>>>>
>>>>> feedbacks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>>>>>
>>>>> In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end
>>> of
>>>>> February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
>>>>> should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
>>>>>> populating this, such as dates.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some
>>> of
>>>>> the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
>>>>> new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Juergen
>>>>>
>>>>>> Samer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>>>>>>>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
>>>>>>>> of us> >
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
>>>>>
>>>>> alphabets
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
>>>>>>> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
>>>>>>> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
>>>>>>> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
>>>>>>> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
>>>>>>> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my opinion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Juergen
>>>
>>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
The logo which suits IBM may not suite AOO. IBM can afford to just draw
three lines, and spend tonnes of money to say the first line stands for I
second for B and so on.
It is not required to take their comment very seriously. If they have
suggested any thing constructive, it can be considered. I want to remind
the article, "How to paint the ........"
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 7 February 2013 20:42, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
> effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
>
> In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
> the best practices and most liked parts.
> In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
> them out.
>
> I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
>
> We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
> promotional video.
> I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
> process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
> Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
> well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
>
> I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
> volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
> waiting.
>
> I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
> work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
> Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host them
> on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
> I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
> volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
>
> I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
> just to confirm what I make is fine.
> I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
> talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
>
> Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with the
> designers and changing this effort to team based?
>
> Samer
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that has
> > been
> > consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
> > devote some time to AOO once again.
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
> > lunch
> > > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
> > >
> > > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips
> and
> > > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly
> of
> > > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but
> we'll
> > > leave it up as what not to do...
> >
> > I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience
> however.
> > The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old
> OOo
> > art
> > project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
> > again!
> > :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
> >
> > They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in
> the
> > original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal for
> > the
> > RFP thread on Gmane here:
> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
> >
> >
> > Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
> > need
> > to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, they
> > are
> > a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
> >
> > http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
> >
> > We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
> > impact, be
> > unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
> > languages.
> > Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global
> brand
> > and the brand has to reflect that.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and
> ask
> > > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> > > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
> > >
> > > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have
> to
> > > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to
> hear
> > > this.
> > >
> > > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out
> detailed
> > > now.
> > >
> > > 1. It has to be reproducible.
> > > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
> > feathers
> > > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the
> logo,
> > > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen,
> refresh/changes
> > > with versions.
> > >
> > > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can
> make
> > > them related though.
> > > Tips for icons
> > > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> > > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
> > > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
> > user
> > > visually in the icon.
> > > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner
> to
> > > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> > > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize
> well,
> > ie
> > > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get
> away
> > > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. Font
> > > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm
> stuck
> > in
> > > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
> > everyday
> > > folk, they like sleek.
> >
> > I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
> > with
> > and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
> > end.
> > It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will
> push
> > the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of
> > our
> > end users are non-techy
> >
> > >
> > > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> > > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying
> > to
> > > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
> > original.
> > > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
> > where
> > > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They
> are
> > > part of it.
> > >
> > > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
> > > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I
> will
> > > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have
> something
> > > to aim for.
> > >
> > > Samer
> >
> > I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build a
> > brand which is a whole different ballgame.
> >
> > Cheers
> > GL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> > > > >
> > > > > First part is dates.
> > > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> > > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> > > >
> > > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet
> because
> > > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
> > later
> > > > this month.
> > > >
> > > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
> > > > > integrate).
> > > >
> > > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
> > > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
> > logo,
> > > > banner logo etc.
> > > >
> > > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> > > >
> > > > aligned with 2.
> > > >
> > > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> > > >
> > > > not sure if this is needed at all
> > > >
> > > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> > > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
> > > >
> > > > schedule
> > > >
> > > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
> > > > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Second part is voting:
> > > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> > > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol,
> the
> > > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again
> > > > > on
> > > >
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did
> not.
> > > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
> > > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
> > > >
> > > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
> > too
> > > > many. But I am flexible
> > > >
> > > > > Third part is criteria:
> > > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> > > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> > > >
> > > > at least free and proper licensed font
> > > >
> > > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to
> demonstrate
> > > > continuity.
> > > >
> > > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> > > > merchandising material has some advantages.
> > > >
> > > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
> > > > > point>
> > > > in
> > > >
> > > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
> > > > > are
> > > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> > > >
> > > > feedbacks.
> > > >
> > > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
> > > >
> > > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end
> > of
> > > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
> > > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
> > > >
> > > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> > > > > populating this, such as dates.
> > > >
> > > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some
> > of
> > > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
> > > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
> > > >
> > > > Juergen
> > > >
> > > > > Samer
> > > > >
> > > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> > > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
> > > > >>> of us> >
> > > > > can
> > > > >
> > > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
> > > >
> > > > alphabets
> > > >
> > > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
> > > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
> > > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
> > > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
> > > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
> > > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Just my opinion
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Juergen
> >
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
Excellent, thanks for helping me fill in places. I will screen capture
placements and pages so we know what will need to be done.
Once we have a branding decided, we'll be time crunched to make all the
changes before AOO4 is released.
So I would rather prioritize changes as well. Like stuff that will ship,
the home page and buttons for fan sites should be focused on first.
Followed by supporting site's templates, then third party sites.
I'll continue later today refining technical requirements and screen
capping where changes need to happen (planning / documentation), so we can
size and check off things when completed.
Samer
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> > branding is applied.
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> >
>
> I added a section for the social networks where we would need a new
> logo as well.
>
> > Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a
> > new/future layout.
> >
> > The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration
> page
> > we've been using.
> > I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up.
> > The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair
> requirements.
> > They are on the page to review.
> >
> > I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
> > document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like
> > bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
> > Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This
> > is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
> >
>
> Everything at *openoffice.org or *.apache.org should be customizable,
> though some might require us opening a ticket with the Infrastructure
> team.
>
> I also added the templates and extensions website as their own line
> item. Although they are *.openoffice.org addresses, they are distinct
> Drupal sites, hosted by SourceForge. So updates would need to be
> coordinated with them.
>
> > I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it
> mentioning
> > it in the branding in the installer.
> > I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to
> > provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :)
> >
> > Samer
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
> >> > effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
> >> >
> >>
> >> The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select
> >> from. Other projects have done this successfully before. But doing
> >> it within the project could work as well. We could even do it within
> >> the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it,
> >> encouraging more participation in the effort.
> >>
> >> But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative
> >> effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas? B) How do
> >> we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the
> >> well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for
> >> bike-shedding.
> >>
> >> > In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and
> adapt
> >> > the best practices and most liked parts.
> >> > In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and
> assign
> >> > them out.
> >> >
> >> > I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
> >> >
> >> > We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
> >> > promotional video.
> >> > I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
> >> > process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
> >> > Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the
> same as
> >> > well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work. But
> >> I think that is just a form of idea generation. You don't necessarily
> >> put the winning choice directly into the product. Refinement is still
> >> needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas,
> >> or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not
> >> necessary.
> >>
> >> > I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with
> the
> >> > volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing
> and
> >> > waiting.
> >> >
> >> > I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers
> to
> >> > work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
> >> > Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host
> >> them
> >> > on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
> >> > I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
> >> > volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
> >> >
> >> > I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or
> even
> >> > just to confirm what I make is fine.
> >> > I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that
> our
> >> > talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working
> with
> >> the
> >> > designers and changing this effort to team based?
> >> >
> >>
> >> You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...". So this is
> >> immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-) Thanks!
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >> > Samer
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that
> >> has
> >> >> been
> >> >> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and
> able to
> >> >> devote some time to AOO once again.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >> >> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while
> at
> >> >> lunch
> >> >> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me
> tips
> >> and
> >> >> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very
> >> highly of
> >> >> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but
> >> we'll
> >> >> > leave it up as what not to do...
> >> >>
> >> >> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience
> >> however.
> >> >> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the
> old
> >> OOo
> >> >> art
> >> >> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
> >> >> again!
> >> >> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
> >> >>
> >> >> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things
> in
> >> the
> >> >> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal
> >> for
> >> >> the
> >> >> RFP thread on Gmane here:
> >> >>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations
> that
> >> >> need
> >> >> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations,
> >> they
> >> >> are
> >> >> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
> >> >>
> >> >> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
> >> >> impact, be
> >> >> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
> >> >> languages.
> >> >> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global
> >> brand
> >> >> and the brand has to reflect that.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know
> and
> >> ask
> >> >> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> >> >> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into
> this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't
> >> have to
> >> >> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us
> to
> >> hear
> >> >> > this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out
> >> detailed
> >> >> > now.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
> >> >> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
> >> >> feathers
> >> >> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the
> >> logo,
> >> >> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen,
> >> refresh/changes
> >> >> > with versions.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you
> can
> >> make
> >> >> > them related though.
> >> >> > Tips for icons
> >> >> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> >> >> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should
> be
> >> >> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to
> the
> >> >> user
> >> >> > visually in the icon.
> >> >> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in
> corner
> >> to
> >> >> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> >> >> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize
> >> well,
> >> >> ie
> >> >> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get
> >> away
> >> >> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 3. Font
> >> >> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm
> >> stuck
> >> >> in
> >> >> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
> >> >> everyday
> >> >> > folk, they like sleek.
> >> >>
> >> >> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're
> communicating
> >> >> with
> >> >> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in
> the
> >> >> end.
> >> >> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what
> will
> >> push
> >> >> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast
> majority of
> >> >> our
> >> >> end users are non-techy
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> >> >> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with
> >> trying
> >> >> to
> >> >> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
> >> >> original.
> >> >> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's
> #8
> >> >> where
> >> >> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that.
> They
> >> are
> >> >> > part of it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight
> this
> >> >> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I
> >> will
> >> >> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have
> >> something
> >> >> > to aim for.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Samer
> >> >>
> >> >> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to
> build
> >> a
> >> >> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >> GL
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> >> >> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > First part is dates.
> >> >> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> >> >> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet
> >> because
> >> >> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed
> schedule
> >> >> later
> >> >> > > this month.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
> >> >> > > > integrate).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind
> that we
> >> >> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons,
> app
> >> >> logo,
> >> >> > > banner logo etc.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > aligned with 2.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > not sure if this is needed at all
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> >> >> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise
> the
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > schedule
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't
> >> miss
> >> >> > > > it.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Second part is voting:
> >> >> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> >> >> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American
> Idol,
> >> the
> >> >> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote
> >> again
> >> >> > > > on
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did
> >> not.
> >> >> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all
> the
> >> >> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I
> wouldn't do
> >> >> too
> >> >> > > many. But I am flexible
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Third part is criteria:
> >> >> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> >> >> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > at least free and proper licensed font
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to
> >> demonstrate
> >> >> > > continuity.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> >> >> > > merchandising material has some advantages.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at
> this
> >> >> > > > point>
> >> >> > > in
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our
> designs
> >> >> > > > are
> >> >> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > feedbacks.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until
> >> end
> >> >> of
> >> >> > > February and target the final bits until end of March.
> Integration
> >> >> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can
> start
> >> >> > > > populating this, such as dates.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping
> >> some
> >> >> of
> >> >> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a
> >> radical
> >> >> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Juergen
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Samer
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <
> jogischmidt@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> >> >> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So
> all
> >> >> > > >>> of us> >
> >> >> > > > can
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy
> use
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > alphabets
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we
> >> define
> >> >> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the
> vote
> >> >> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good
> proposals
> >> >> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
> >> >> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied
> everywhere
> >> >> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Just my opinion
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Juergen
> >> >>
> >>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> branding is applied.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>
I added a section for the social networks where we would need a new
logo as well.
> Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a
> new/future layout.
>
> The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration page
> we've been using.
> I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up.
> The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair requirements.
> They are on the page to review.
>
> I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
> document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like
> bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
> Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This
> is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
>
Everything at *openoffice.org or *.apache.org should be customizable,
though some might require us opening a ticket with the Infrastructure
team.
I also added the templates and extensions website as their own line
item. Although they are *.openoffice.org addresses, they are distinct
Drupal sites, hosted by SourceForge. So updates would need to be
coordinated with them.
> I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it mentioning
> it in the branding in the installer.
> I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to
> provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :)
>
> Samer
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
>> > effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
>> >
>>
>> The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select
>> from. Other projects have done this successfully before. But doing
>> it within the project could work as well. We could even do it within
>> the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it,
>> encouraging more participation in the effort.
>>
>> But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative
>> effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas? B) How do
>> we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the
>> well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for
>> bike-shedding.
>>
>> > In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
>> > the best practices and most liked parts.
>> > In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
>> > them out.
>> >
>> > I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
>> >
>> > We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
>> > promotional video.
>> > I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
>> > process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
>> > Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
>> > well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
>> >
>>
>> Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work. But
>> I think that is just a form of idea generation. You don't necessarily
>> put the winning choice directly into the product. Refinement is still
>> needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas,
>> or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not
>> necessary.
>>
>> > I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
>> > volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
>> > waiting.
>> >
>> > I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
>> > work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
>> > Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host
>> them
>> > on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
>> > I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
>> > volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
>> >
>> > I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
>> > just to confirm what I make is fine.
>> > I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
>> > talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with
>> the
>> > designers and changing this effort to team based?
>> >
>>
>> You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...". So this is
>> immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-) Thanks!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Samer
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that
>> has
>> >> been
>> >> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
>> >> devote some time to AOO once again.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
>> >> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
>> >> lunch
>> >> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>> >> >
>> >> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips
>> and
>> >> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very
>> highly of
>> >> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but
>> we'll
>> >> > leave it up as what not to do...
>> >>
>> >> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience
>> however.
>> >> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old
>> OOo
>> >> art
>> >> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
>> >> again!
>> >> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
>> >>
>> >> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in
>> the
>> >> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> RFP thread on Gmane here:
>> >> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
>> >> need
>> >> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations,
>> they
>> >> are
>> >> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
>> >>
>> >> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
>> >> impact, be
>> >> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
>> >> languages.
>> >> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global
>> brand
>> >> and the brand has to reflect that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and
>> ask
>> >> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
>> >> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't
>> have to
>> >> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to
>> hear
>> >> > this.
>> >> >
>> >> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out
>> detailed
>> >> > now.
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
>> >> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
>> >> feathers
>> >> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the
>> logo,
>> >> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen,
>> refresh/changes
>> >> > with versions.
>> >> >
>> >> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can
>> make
>> >> > them related though.
>> >> > Tips for icons
>> >> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
>> >> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
>> >> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
>> >> user
>> >> > visually in the icon.
>> >> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner
>> to
>> >> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
>> >> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize
>> well,
>> >> ie
>> >> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get
>> away
>> >> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > 3. Font
>> >> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm
>> stuck
>> >> in
>> >> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
>> >> everyday
>> >> > folk, they like sleek.
>> >>
>> >> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
>> >> with
>> >> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
>> >> end.
>> >> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will
>> push
>> >> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of
>> >> our
>> >> end users are non-techy
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
>> >> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with
>> trying
>> >> to
>> >> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
>> >> original.
>> >> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
>> >> where
>> >> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They
>> are
>> >> > part of it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
>> >> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I
>> will
>> >> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have
>> something
>> >> > to aim for.
>> >> >
>> >> > Samer
>> >>
>> >> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build
>> a
>> >> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> GL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> >> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > First part is dates.
>> >> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
>> >> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet
>> because
>> >> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
>> >> later
>> >> > > this month.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
>> >> > > > integrate).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
>> >> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
>> >> logo,
>> >> > > banner logo etc.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > aligned with 2.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > not sure if this is needed at all
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
>> >> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
>> >> > >
>> >> > > schedule
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't
>> miss
>> >> > > > it.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Second part is voting:
>> >> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
>> >> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol,
>> the
>> >> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote
>> again
>> >> > > > on
>> >> > >
>> >> > > the
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did
>> not.
>> >> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
>> >> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
>> >> too
>> >> > > many. But I am flexible
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Third part is criteria:
>> >> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
>> >> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > at least free and proper licensed font
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to
>> demonstrate
>> >> > > continuity.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
>> >> > > merchandising material has some advantages.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
>> >> > > > point>
>> >> > > in
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
>> >> > > > are
>> >> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
>> >> > >
>> >> > > feedbacks.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until
>> end
>> >> of
>> >> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
>> >> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
>> >> > > > populating this, such as dates.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping
>> some
>> >> of
>> >> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a
>> radical
>> >> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Juergen
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Samer
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> >> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
>> >> > > >>> of us> >
>> >> > > > can
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
>> >> > >
>> >> > > alphabets
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we
>> define
>> >> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
>> >> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
>> >> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
>> >> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
>> >> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Just my opinion
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Juergen
>> >>
>>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 2/8/13 8:32 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> branding is applied.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>
> Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a
> new/future layout.
>
> The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration page
> we've been using.
> I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up.
> The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair requirements.
> They are on the page to review.
>
> I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
> document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like
> bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
> Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This
> is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
>
> I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it mentioning
> it in the branding in the installer.
> I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to
> provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :)
>
the incubating string will be removed for 4.0 completely. The last 3.4.1
language respin contains it only for simplification and continuity.
We should focus on the new logo and branding and change the existing
images when we are ready. I see no need to make a quick fix here, when
we plan to replace it anyway for 4.0
Juergen
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Shane,
This branding refresh doesn't mean forever, future community members may
choose to refresh again at a later date, at that time Apache might be
further integrated. Once the name is established.
I will make sure I get written disclosure from designers that their
creations are original and that AOO and ASF can have trademark rights to
use them.
Dev sites are lower priority agree, this was mentioned elsewhere. I can
think about dev areas having an altered branding so visitors/potential
volunteers know they entered dev world.
Samer
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>wrote:
> A couple of general comments from the sidelines and trademarks@ point of
> view:
>
>
> On 2/8/2013 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>
>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
>> branding is applied.
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**
>> Branding+Planning<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**
>> Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Project<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project>
>>
>
> Great to see the organization and energy happening here!
>
> To clarify, trademarks@ suggests a couple of updates to the Criteria For
> Logo & Branding section of the Brand Refresh Project.
>
> 1. The primary criteria is that whatever logos, designs, etc. selected as
> a final brand must be suitable for use as trademarks. I.e. the ASF must
> have sufficient rights to use this brand on behalf of the AOO project, and
> be able to defend the use of this brand in the future if needed. Depending
> on what the final brand look is created from, we may want to ask the
> creator for an explicit legal grant of trademark rights, just to ensure
> there are no future questions about it.
>
> 2. Separately, (reading through the Restrictions on that page) if the PMC
> specifically wanted to, other Apache branding elements could be included in
> the AOO branding. While it's certainly never required, it is permissible
> for Apache projects to use the Apache feather as part of their brand as
> long as it's done in an appropriate fashion.
>
> While personally I love the Apache feather, I'm torn to say if I think
> it'd would be a good idea in a future AOO logo. It would certainly
> introduce the ASF heritage to the broad OOo/AOO end community, but I don't
> actually know if is necessarily the best element to add, given the existing
> recognition of the gulls and the blue orb. Also, the Apache feather is
> rather complex and is not always easy to scale.
>
> In any case, deciding if you want to include the Apache feather is
> completely up to the PMC - I just wanted to let people know it is an option.
>
> ...
>
> I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
>> document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like
>> bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
>> Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This
>> is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
>>
>
> It's great to include all the developer-facing sites - like the bug
> tracker, etc.) in the planning. My only comment is that if we need to
> prioritize, I'd think that the end-user facing sites are most important to
> get the details consistent on. The more developer-centric parts of the
> website are relatively less important, if it comes down to a question of
> available volunteer energy to actually complete changes.
>
> Separately, (in the future), might there be any thought of a partial
> sub-brand for the developer side of the house? I.e. some additional logos
> or styling for people who are interested in building extensions, or
> submitting real code patches or joining the committers or the like. (Note:
> I can't volunteer here, just throwing out an idea now that people are
> getting organized about branding!)
>
> - Shane
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
A couple of general comments from the sidelines and trademarks@ point of
view:
On 2/8/2013 2:32 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> branding is applied.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
Great to see the organization and energy happening here!
To clarify, trademarks@ suggests a couple of updates to the Criteria For
Logo & Branding section of the Brand Refresh Project.
1. The primary criteria is that whatever logos, designs, etc. selected
as a final brand must be suitable for use as trademarks. I.e. the ASF
must have sufficient rights to use this brand on behalf of the AOO
project, and be able to defend the use of this brand in the future if
needed. Depending on what the final brand look is created from, we may
want to ask the creator for an explicit legal grant of trademark rights,
just to ensure there are no future questions about it.
2. Separately, (reading through the Restrictions on that page) if the
PMC specifically wanted to, other Apache branding elements could be
included in the AOO branding. While it's certainly never required, it is
permissible for Apache projects to use the Apache feather as part of
their brand as long as it's done in an appropriate fashion.
While personally I love the Apache feather, I'm torn to say if I think
it'd would be a good idea in a future AOO logo. It would certainly
introduce the ASF heritage to the broad OOo/AOO end community, but I
don't actually know if is necessarily the best element to add, given the
existing recognition of the gulls and the blue orb. Also, the Apache
feather is rather complex and is not always easy to scale.
In any case, deciding if you want to include the Apache feather is
completely up to the PMC - I just wanted to let people know it is an option.
...
> I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
> document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like
> bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
> Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This
> is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
It's great to include all the developer-facing sites - like the bug
tracker, etc.) in the planning. My only comment is that if we need to
prioritize, I'd think that the end-user facing sites are most important
to get the details consistent on. The more developer-centric parts of
the website are relatively less important, if it comes down to a
question of available volunteer energy to actually complete changes.
Separately, (in the future), might there be any thought of a partial
sub-brand for the developer side of the house? I.e. some additional
logos or styling for people who are interested in building extensions,
or submitting real code patches or joining the committers or the like.
(Note: I can't volunteer here, just throwing out an idea now that people
are getting organized about branding!)
- Shane
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
Everything looks fine here
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
Can you suggest color and size for the text instead of standard black?
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 20 February 2013 20:38, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robin,
>
> You just hit on my points, I thought this was the feeling everyone was
> getting.
>
> Ok I'm going to push through dev and marketing mailing lists to close up
> proposals, I'll also ask dev thread to give feedback in the cwiki
> comments. You'll get even more feedback this way.
> But know, not all comments will be nice, and not all feedback should be
> taken... some people just have really bad design ideas/comments haha.
>
> Samer
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Robin Fowler
> <au...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>
> > I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the homepage for
> > now).
> >
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
> >
> > I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without feedback. I
> > have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no clue
> > whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know that we
> > can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put more
> > work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
> >
> > If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can concentrate
> > on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave feedback
> for
> > my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is needed,
> > regardless of whose design we're talking about.
> >
> > Robin
> >
> > On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how pages
> > > need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I forgot his
> > > name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with proper
> > > monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout of the
> > > contents, bring the functionality etc.
> > >
> > > Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am
> > learning
> > > it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be easier to
> > > design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good
> > templates
> > >
> > > With Warm Regards
> > >
> > > V.Kadal Amutham
> > > 919444360480
> > > 914422396480
> > >
> > >
> > > On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> > >>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different
> structure
> > >> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
> > >>
> > >> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
> > >> make a decision.
> > >>
> > >> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
> > >> refresh project and drive it.
> > >>
> > >> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with
> this
> > >> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app
> and
> > >> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we
> should
> > >> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
> > >>
> > >> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary
> > steps?
> > >>
> > >> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
> > >> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
> > >> focused to a date and to find a decision.
> > >>
> > >> We will have probably several proposal which all have their
> advantages.
> > >> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
> > >> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding
> with
> > >> the design elements
> > >>
> > >> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
> > >> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
> > >> - application icons
> > >> - file icons
> > >> - ??
> > >>
> > >> Juergen
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Robin
> > >>>
> > >>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> > >>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons,
> and
> > >> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to
> > post
> > >> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new
> > one
> > >> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Juergen
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Robin
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where
> > AOO
> > >>>>>>> branding is applied.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
> > >> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for
> > putting
> > >> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo
> > as a
> > >> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete
> > branding
> > >> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>> Andrea.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
Jürgen,
I didn't have time to make a complete proposal this week, but these would
be the icons that would go well with any logo that keeps the gulls.
Here is a set of icons that adhere to some better practices:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Desktop+Icons+Proposals
I will try to get to a full complete proposal by monday posted.
Sam
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:36 AM, <go...@aol.in> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Could we please have an Official Mascot? (Like FF has the famous &
> quickly recognizable Fox).
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>
> To: marketing <ma...@openoffice.apache.org>
> >
> Sent: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 5:08 am
> Subject: Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
>
> I could provide a cleaned up version of that and propose it along with
> Robin's. I had abandoned it because there was a lot wrong with it, I had
> began documenting good practices instead. I could return to it and place a
> good version up.
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischmidt@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> On 2/20/13 4:08 PM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> > Robin,
>> >
>> > You just hit on my points, I thought this was the feeling everyone
>>
> was
>
>> > getting.
>> >
>> > Ok I'm going to push through dev and marketing mailing lists to
>>
> close up
>
>> > proposals, I'll also ask dev thread to give feedback in the cwiki
>> > comments. You'll get even more feedback this way.
>> > But know, not all comments will be nice, and not all feedback
>>
> should be
>
>> > taken... some people just have really bad design ideas/comments
>>
> haha.
>
>>
>> Samer, do you have any plans to provide a complete of your designs
>>
>> see version v.28 ->
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/pages/viewpage.**
> action?pageId=30751998<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=30751998>
>
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>> >
>> > Samer
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Robin Fowler
>> > <au...@googlemail.com>**wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the
>>
> homepage for
>
>> >> now).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**
> 01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+**Fowler+-+12.02.2013<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013>
>
>> >>
>> >> I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without
>>
> feedback. I
>
>> >> have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no
>>
> clue
>
>> >> whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know
>>
> that
>
>> we
>> >> can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put
>>
> more
>
>> >> work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can
>> concentrate
>> >> on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave
>>
> feedback
>
>> for
>> >> my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is
>>
> needed,
>
>> >> regardless of whose design we're talking about.
>> >>
>> >> Robin
>> >>
>> >> On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how
>>
> pages
>
>> >>> need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I
>>
> forgot his
>
>> >>> name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with
>>
> proper
>
>> >>> monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout
>>
> of the
>
>> >>> contents, bring the functionality etc.
>> >>>
>> >>> Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am
>> >> learning
>> >>> it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be
>>
> easier to
>
>> >>> design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good
>> >> templates
>> >>>
>> >>> With Warm Regards
>> >>>
>> >>> V.Kadal Amutham
>> >>> 919444360480
>> >>> 914422396480
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>> >>>>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different
>> structure
>> >>>> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**
> AOO4+-+Complete+Design+**Proposals<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals>
>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help
>>
> us to
>
>> >>>> make a decision.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
>> >>>> refresh project and drive it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned
>>
> with
>
>> this
>> >>>> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new
>>
> app
>
>> and
>> >>>> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we
>> should
>> >>>> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the
>>
> necessary
>
>> >> steps?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do
>>
> it
>
>> >>>> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and
>>
> keep it
>
>> >>>> focused to a date and to find a decision.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We will have probably several proposal which all have their
>> advantages.
>> >>>> People will have different opinions about the different
>>
> proposals and
>
>> >>>> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new
>>
> branding
>
>> with
>> >>>> the design elements
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center,
>>
> about,
>
>> >>>> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
>> >>>> - application icons
>> >>>> - file icons
>> >>>> - ??
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Juergen
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Robin
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>> >>>>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours,
>>
> icons,
>
>> and
>> >>>> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea
>>
> where to
>
>> >> post
>> >>>> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create
>>
> a new
>
>> >> one
>> >>>> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview
>>
> of all
>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Juergen
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Robin
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting
>>
> where
>
>> >> AOO
>> >>>>>>>>> branding is applied.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**
>> Branding+Planning<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**
> Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+**Refresh+Project<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project>
>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead
>>
> here.
>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
>> >>>> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for
>> >> putting
>> >>>> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a
>>
> basic logo
>
>> >> as a
>> >>>> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more
>>
> complete
>
>> >> branding
>> >>>> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>>> Andrea.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by go...@aol.in.
Hi,
Could we please have an Official Mascot? (Like FF has the famous &
quickly recognizable Fox).
Thanks,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>
To: marketing <ma...@openoffice.apache.org>
Sent: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 5:08 am
Subject: Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
I could provide a cleaned up version of that and propose it along with
Robin's. I had abandoned it because there was a lot wrong with it, I
had
began documenting good practices instead. I could return to it and
place a
good version up.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Jürgen Schmidt
<jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 2/20/13 4:08 PM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > Robin,
> >
> > You just hit on my points, I thought this was the feeling everyone
was
> > getting.
> >
> > Ok I'm going to push through dev and marketing mailing lists to
close up
> > proposals, I'll also ask dev thread to give feedback in the cwiki
> > comments. You'll get even more feedback this way.
> > But know, not all comments will be nice, and not all feedback
should be
> > taken... some people just have really bad design ideas/comments
haha.
>
> Samer, do you have any plans to provide a complete of your designs
>
> see version v.28 ->
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=30751998
>
> Juergen
>
> >
> > Samer
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Robin Fowler
> > <au...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the
homepage for
> >> now).
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
> >>
> >> I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without
feedback. I
> >> have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no
clue
> >> whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know
that
> we
> >> can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put
more
> >> work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
> >>
> >> If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can
> concentrate
> >> on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave
feedback
> for
> >> my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is
needed,
> >> regardless of whose design we're talking about.
> >>
> >> Robin
> >>
> >> On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how
pages
> >>> need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I
forgot his
> >>> name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with
proper
> >>> monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout
of the
> >>> contents, bring the functionality etc.
> >>>
> >>> Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am
> >> learning
> >>> it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be
easier to
> >>> design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good
> >> templates
> >>>
> >>> With Warm Regards
> >>>
> >>> V.Kadal Amutham
> >>> 919444360480
> >>> 914422396480
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>>>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different
> structure
> >>>> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help
us to
> >>>> make a decision.
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
> >>>> refresh project and drive it.
> >>>>
> >>>> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned
with
> this
> >>>> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new
app
> and
> >>>> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we
> should
> >>>> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
> >>>>
> >>>> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the
necessary
> >> steps?
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do
it
> >>>> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and
keep it
> >>>> focused to a date and to find a decision.
> >>>>
> >>>> We will have probably several proposal which all have their
> advantages.
> >>>> People will have different opinions about the different
proposals and
> >>>> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new
branding
> with
> >>>> the design elements
> >>>>
> >>>> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center,
about,
> >>>> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
> >>>> - application icons
> >>>> - file icons
> >>>> - ??
> >>>>
> >>>> Juergen
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Robin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>>>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours,
icons,
> and
> >>>> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea
where to
> >> post
> >>>> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create
a new
> >> one
> >>>> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview
of all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Juergen
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Robin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting
where
> >> AOO
> >>>>>>>>> branding is applied.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead
here.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
> >>>> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for
> >> putting
> >>>> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a
basic logo
> >> as a
> >>>> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more
complete
> >> branding
> >>>> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>> Andrea.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
I could provide a cleaned up version of that and propose it along with
Robin's. I had abandoned it because there was a lot wrong with it, I had
began documenting good practices instead. I could return to it and place a
good version up.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 2/20/13 4:08 PM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > Robin,
> >
> > You just hit on my points, I thought this was the feeling everyone was
> > getting.
> >
> > Ok I'm going to push through dev and marketing mailing lists to close up
> > proposals, I'll also ask dev thread to give feedback in the cwiki
> > comments. You'll get even more feedback this way.
> > But know, not all comments will be nice, and not all feedback should be
> > taken... some people just have really bad design ideas/comments haha.
>
> Samer, do you have any plans to provide a complete of your designs
>
> see version v.28 ->
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=30751998
>
> Juergen
>
> >
> > Samer
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Robin Fowler
> > <au...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the homepage for
> >> now).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
> >>
> >> I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without feedback. I
> >> have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no clue
> >> whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know that
> we
> >> can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put more
> >> work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
> >>
> >> If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can
> concentrate
> >> on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave feedback
> for
> >> my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is needed,
> >> regardless of whose design we're talking about.
> >>
> >> Robin
> >>
> >> On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how pages
> >>> need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I forgot his
> >>> name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with proper
> >>> monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout of the
> >>> contents, bring the functionality etc.
> >>>
> >>> Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am
> >> learning
> >>> it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be easier to
> >>> design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good
> >> templates
> >>>
> >>> With Warm Regards
> >>>
> >>> V.Kadal Amutham
> >>> 919444360480
> >>> 914422396480
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>>>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different
> structure
> >>>> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
> >>>> make a decision.
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
> >>>> refresh project and drive it.
> >>>>
> >>>> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with
> this
> >>>> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app
> and
> >>>> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we
> should
> >>>> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
> >>>>
> >>>> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary
> >> steps?
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
> >>>> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
> >>>> focused to a date and to find a decision.
> >>>>
> >>>> We will have probably several proposal which all have their
> advantages.
> >>>> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
> >>>> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding
> with
> >>>> the design elements
> >>>>
> >>>> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
> >>>> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
> >>>> - application icons
> >>>> - file icons
> >>>> - ??
> >>>>
> >>>> Juergen
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Robin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>>>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons,
> and
> >>>> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to
> >> post
> >>>> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new
> >> one
> >>>> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Juergen
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Robin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where
> >> AOO
> >>>>>>>>> branding is applied.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
> >>>> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for
> >> putting
> >>>> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo
> >> as a
> >>>> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete
> >> branding
> >>>> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>> Andrea.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 2/20/13 4:08 PM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> Robin,
>
> You just hit on my points, I thought this was the feeling everyone was
> getting.
>
> Ok I'm going to push through dev and marketing mailing lists to close up
> proposals, I'll also ask dev thread to give feedback in the cwiki
> comments. You'll get even more feedback this way.
> But know, not all comments will be nice, and not all feedback should be
> taken... some people just have really bad design ideas/comments haha.
Samer, do you have any plans to provide a complete of your designs
see version v.28 ->
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=30751998
Juergen
>
> Samer
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Robin Fowler
> <au...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>> I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the homepage for
>> now).
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
>>
>> I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without feedback. I
>> have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no clue
>> whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know that we
>> can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put more
>> work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
>>
>> If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can concentrate
>> on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave feedback for
>> my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is needed,
>> regardless of whose design we're talking about.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how pages
>>> need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I forgot his
>>> name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with proper
>>> monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout of the
>>> contents, bring the functionality etc.
>>>
>>> Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am
>> learning
>>> it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be easier to
>>> design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good
>> templates
>>>
>>> With Warm Regards
>>>
>>> V.Kadal Amutham
>>> 919444360480
>>> 914422396480
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>>>>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure
>>>> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
>>>>
>>>> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
>>>> make a decision.
>>>>
>>>> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
>>>> refresh project and drive it.
>>>>
>>>> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with this
>>>> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app and
>>>> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we should
>>>> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
>>>>
>>>> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary
>> steps?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
>>>> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
>>>> focused to a date and to find a decision.
>>>>
>>>> We will have probably several proposal which all have their advantages.
>>>> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
>>>> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding with
>>>> the design elements
>>>>
>>>> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
>>>> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
>>>> - application icons
>>>> - file icons
>>>> - ??
>>>>
>>>> Juergen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robin
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>>>>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and
>>>> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to
>> post
>>>> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new
>> one
>>>> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Juergen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where
>> AOO
>>>>>>>>> branding is applied.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
>>>> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for
>> putting
>>>> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo
>> as a
>>>> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete
>> branding
>>>> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Andrea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
Robin,
You just hit on my points, I thought this was the feeling everyone was
getting.
Ok I'm going to push through dev and marketing mailing lists to close up
proposals, I'll also ask dev thread to give feedback in the cwiki
comments. You'll get even more feedback this way.
But know, not all comments will be nice, and not all feedback should be
taken... some people just have really bad design ideas/comments haha.
Samer
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Robin Fowler
<au...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the homepage for
> now).
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
>
> I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without feedback. I
> have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no clue
> whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know that we
> can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put more
> work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
>
> If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can concentrate
> on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave feedback for
> my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is needed,
> regardless of whose design we're talking about.
>
> Robin
>
> On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how pages
> > need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I forgot his
> > name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with proper
> > monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout of the
> > contents, bring the functionality etc.
> >
> > Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am
> learning
> > it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be easier to
> > design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good
> templates
> >
> > With Warm Regards
> >
> > V.Kadal Amutham
> > 919444360480
> > 914422396480
> >
> >
> > On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure
> >> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
> >>
> >> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
> >> make a decision.
> >>
> >> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
> >> refresh project and drive it.
> >>
> >> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with this
> >> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app and
> >> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we should
> >> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
> >>
> >> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary
> steps?
> >>
> >> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
> >> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
> >> focused to a date and to find a decision.
> >>
> >> We will have probably several proposal which all have their advantages.
> >> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
> >> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding with
> >> the design elements
> >>
> >> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
> >> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
> >> - application icons
> >> - file icons
> >> - ??
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Robin
> >>>
> >>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and
> >> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to
> post
> >> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new
> one
> >> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
> >>>>
> >>>> Juergen
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Robin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where
> AOO
> >>>>>>> branding is applied.
> >>>>>>>
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> >>>>>>>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
> >> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for
> putting
> >> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo
> as a
> >> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete
> branding
> >> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> Andrea.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Robin Fowler <au...@googlemail.com>.
I've updated my proposal with a website overhaul (just the homepage for now).
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/01+-+Design+Proposal+Robin+Fowler+-+12.02.2013
I'm willing to push this forward, but it won't work without feedback. I have had no feedback so far on the branding proposal so i have no clue whether it's something there's interest in or not. I have to know that we can agree on my design (or anyone else's design) before I (we) put more work into it. Otherwise it's potentially a huge waste of time.
If we can collectively agree on certain proposals then we can concentrate on refining and implementing them. I liked the way people gave feedback for my logo design, that really enhanced it. I think more of that is needed, regardless of whose design we're talking about.
Robin
On 20 Feb 2013, at 12:50, Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how pages
> need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I forgot his
> name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with proper
> monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout of the
> contents, bring the functionality etc.
>
> Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am learning
> it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be easier to
> design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good templates
>
> With Warm Regards
>
> V.Kadal Amutham
> 919444360480
> 914422396480
>
>
> On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>>> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure
>> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
>>>
>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
>>
>> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
>> make a decision.
>>
>> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
>> refresh project and drive it.
>>
>> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with this
>> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app and
>> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we should
>> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
>>
>> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary steps?
>>
>> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
>> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
>> focused to a date and to find a decision.
>>
>> We will have probably several proposal which all have their advantages.
>> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
>> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding with
>> the design elements
>>
>> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
>> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
>> - application icons
>> - file icons
>> - ??
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>>>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and
>> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post
>> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one
>> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
>>>>
>>>> Juergen
>>>>
>>>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robin
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
>>>>>>> branding is applied.
>>>>>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
>>>>>>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
>> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting
>> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a
>> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding
>> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Andrea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Kadal Amutham <vk...@gmail.com>.
Regarding restructuring the various pages, kindly let me know how pages
need redesign. Among us there is a good graphic designer (I forgot his
name. Is it you?) . With his help I can carry on the job with proper
monitoring guidance from you and Rob Weir. I can do the layout of the
contents, bring the functionality etc.
Anybody has good knowledge in Joomla! For the past few weeks I am learning
it. But I find lot of limitations in using it. But it may be easier to
design attractive sites using Joomla! by importing / buying good templates
With Warm Regards
V.Kadal Amutham
919444360480
914422396480
On 20 February 2013 16:17, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> > Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure
> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
>
> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
> make a decision.
>
> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
> refresh project and drive it.
>
> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with this
> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app and
> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we should
> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
>
> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary steps?
>
> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
> focused to a date and to find a decision.
>
> We will have probably several proposal which all have their advantages.
> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding with
> the design elements
>
> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
> - application icons
> - file icons
> - ??
>
> Juergen
>
>
> >
> > Robin
> >
> > On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and
> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post
> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one
> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
> >>>
> >>
> >> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >>> Well done on the structuring btw.
> >>>
> >>> Robin
> >>>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> >>>>> branding is applied.
> >>>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> >>>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> >>>>
> >>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting
> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a
> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding
> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Andrea.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
I am heading this effort.
Just collecting and preparing all the contexts for branding was a time
consumer. I also tried to come up with requirements based on researching
about design and what we've done in the past. eg. see the icons branding
page.
One thing I'm concerned about is how to work with our volunteer designers
and keep them motivated. I don't want to loose a talented designer if we
don't go with their idea. At the same time, if we do pick your idea
congrats you're awesome, but we will make alterations and that might mean
"more of others ideas" but definitely not "less your ideas", we're starting
with your proposal no?
I'm working in good faith. That designers are committed to making a great
product and great brand and its not about "winning".
I really didn't like the competition idea because I thought after we
polarize the whole event, a free for all about winning, how do we get "the
losers" to work together to brand everything someone else's idea. Talk
about a swallowing a pill.
I want us to all work together to come up with a fresh new look, but at the
end of the day we need to pick something and I don't want anyone to take it
personally if we don't go further with their design.
I'll send a new thread in dev and marketing asking for all proposals to be
submitted before Saturday Morning. They don't have to be complete
proposals, if its just a splash screen, start screen redesign etc etc.
So I'm thinking this, I will pick a direction and make a case to present to
our community, once we're okay with it in lazy consensus I can present it
to the whole community with extra detail that it passed marketing with lazy
consensus (to not clutter dev thread with a bad idea), but we're looking
for everyone to be on board. Then designers will be happy to get started on
actual design work.
Samer Mansour
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> > Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure
> just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
>
> thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
> make a decision.
>
> I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
> refresh project and drive it.
>
> I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with this
> we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app and
> file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we should
> push this. It's an important piece for the release.
>
> Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary steps?
>
> I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
> better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
> focused to a date and to find a decision.
>
> We will have probably several proposal which all have their advantages.
> People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
> that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding with
> the design elements
>
> - logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
> webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
> - application icons
> - file icons
> - ??
>
> Juergen
>
>
> >
> > Robin
> >
> > On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> >>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and
> some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post
> it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one
> for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
> >>>
> >>
> >> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >>> Well done on the structuring btw.
> >>>
> >>> Robin
> >>>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> >>>>> branding is applied.
> >>>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> >>>>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
> >>>>
> >>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who
> proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting
> low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a
> start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding
> proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Andrea.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 2/12/13 5:48 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
thanks, I think having all proposals in a similar form will help us to
make a decision.
I believe we need somebody who takes leadership for this branding
refresh project and drive it.
I proposed a schedule for AOO 4.0 on the dev list and aligned with this
we should have a new logo (intro, splash screen, about) and new app and
file icons in place until April 4th. Time is going forward and we should
push this. It's an important piece for the release.
Who is interested to drive this forward and will push the necessary steps?
I don't have really the time for it and I believe others can do it
better than me. The key point is that somebody drives it and keep it
focused to a date and to find a decision.
We will have probably several proposal which all have their advantages.
People will have different opinions about the different proposals and
that is normal. But in the end we need ONE consistent new branding with
the design elements
- logo, for different use cases (intro screen, start center, about,
webpage, wiki, blog, merchandising, ...)
- application icons
- file icons
- ??
Juergen
>
> Robin
>
> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>
>> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>>> Well done on the structuring btw.
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
>>>>> branding is applied.
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>>>>
>>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
>>>>
>>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrea.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Robin Fowler <ro...@outlook.com>.
Ok I've done it this way. If someone would prefer a different structure just let me know, but i think it makes sense.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO4+-+Complete+Design+Proposals
Robin
On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:45, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
>> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
>>
>
> I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
>
> Juergen
>
>> Well done on the structuring btw.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
>>>> branding is applied.
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>>>
>>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
>>>
>>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 2/12/13 4:35 PM, Robin Fowler wrote:
> I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
>
I would prefer one sub page for each proposal and an overview of all
Juergen
> Well done on the structuring btw.
>
> Robin
>
> On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
>>> branding is applied.
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>>
>> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
>>
>> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Robin Fowler <ro...@outlook.com>.
I have made a more complete design proposal with colours, icons, and some basic guidelines (it's all in one file) and have no idea where to post it. I could either put it in one of the existing pages or create a new one for complete design proposals. Any suggestions?
Well done on the structuring btw.
Robin
On 9 Feb 2013, at 12:32, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
>> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
>> branding is applied.
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
>
> Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
>
> As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who proposed it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting low entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete branding proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 08/02/2013 Samer Mansour wrote:
> Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
> branding is applied.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
Very nice pages (and subpages), thanks for taking the lead here.
As for the selection process, I agree with Rob (and those who proposed
it earlier) that it's better, also for publicity and for putting low
entry barriers, to ask volunteers to provide at least a basic logo as a
start, shortlist a few (about 3) proposals and get a more complete
branding proposals for those ones, before the final selection is made.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
Ok I just cranked away at it for a couple hours collecting where AOO
branding is applied.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project
Created an Icon criteria and task page, including suggestions for a
new/future layout.
The existing wiki pages are still there including the logo exploration page
we've been using.
I've moved proposals that most likely fit the requirements I drummed up.
The requirements are pretty loose and I believe they are fair requirements.
They are on the page to review.
I need to take a separate sit down to collect the websites we have to
document branding there. I imagine some are not customizable, like
bugzilla, but we are interested in updating logos in places.
Hyperlinks and verbiage should say "Apache OpenOffice Bug Tracker". This
is also an easy fix, not documenting that, just CMS changes.
I just want to confirm, AOO is no longer incubating, I found it mentioning
it in the branding in the installer.
I can log these as bugs, but more constructive manner would be for me to
provide developers the quick fix, which may just be a compressed jpeg :)
Samer
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
> > effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
> >
>
> The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select
> from. Other projects have done this successfully before. But doing
> it within the project could work as well. We could even do it within
> the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it,
> encouraging more participation in the effort.
>
> But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative
> effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas? B) How do
> we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the
> well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for
> bike-shedding.
>
> > In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
> > the best practices and most liked parts.
> > In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
> > them out.
> >
> > I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
> >
> > We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
> > promotional video.
> > I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
> > process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
> > Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
> > well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
> >
>
> Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work. But
> I think that is just a form of idea generation. You don't necessarily
> put the winning choice directly into the product. Refinement is still
> needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas,
> or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not
> necessary.
>
> > I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
> > volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
> > waiting.
> >
> > I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
> > work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
> > Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host
> them
> > on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
> > I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
> > volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
> >
> > I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
> > just to confirm what I make is fine.
> > I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
> > talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
> >
> > Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with
> the
> > designers and changing this effort to team based?
> >
>
> You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...". So this is
> immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-) Thanks!
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> > Samer
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that
> has
> >> been
> >> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
> >> devote some time to AOO once again.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
> >> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
> >> lunch
> >> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
> >> >
> >> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips
> and
> >> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very
> highly of
> >> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but
> we'll
> >> > leave it up as what not to do...
> >>
> >> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience
> however.
> >> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old
> OOo
> >> art
> >> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
> >> again!
> >> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
> >>
> >> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in
> the
> >> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal
> for
> >> the
> >> RFP thread on Gmane here:
> >> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
> >>
> >>
> >> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
> >> need
> >> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations,
> they
> >> are
> >> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
> >>
> >> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
> >>
> >> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
> >> impact, be
> >> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
> >> languages.
> >> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global
> brand
> >> and the brand has to reflect that.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and
> ask
> >> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> >> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
> >> >
> >> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't
> have to
> >> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to
> hear
> >> > this.
> >> >
> >> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out
> detailed
> >> > now.
> >> >
> >> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
> >> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
> >> feathers
> >> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the
> logo,
> >> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen,
> refresh/changes
> >> > with versions.
> >> >
> >> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can
> make
> >> > them related though.
> >> > Tips for icons
> >> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> >> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
> >> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
> >> user
> >> > visually in the icon.
> >> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner
> to
> >> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> >> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize
> well,
> >> ie
> >> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get
> away
> >> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 3. Font
> >> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm
> stuck
> >> in
> >> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
> >> everyday
> >> > folk, they like sleek.
> >>
> >> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
> >> with
> >> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
> >> end.
> >> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will
> push
> >> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of
> >> our
> >> end users are non-techy
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> >> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with
> trying
> >> to
> >> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
> >> original.
> >> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
> >> where
> >> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They
> are
> >> > part of it.
> >> >
> >> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
> >> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I
> will
> >> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have
> something
> >> > to aim for.
> >> >
> >> > Samer
> >>
> >> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build
> a
> >> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> GL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> >> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > First part is dates.
> >> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> >> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> >> > >
> >> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet
> because
> >> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
> >> later
> >> > > this month.
> >> > >
> >> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
> >> > > > integrate).
> >> > >
> >> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
> >> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
> >> logo,
> >> > > banner logo etc.
> >> > >
> >> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> >> > >
> >> > > aligned with 2.
> >> > >
> >> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> >> > >
> >> > > not sure if this is needed at all
> >> > >
> >> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> >> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
> >> > >
> >> > > schedule
> >> > >
> >> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't
> miss
> >> > > > it.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Second part is voting:
> >> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> >> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol,
> the
> >> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote
> again
> >> > > > on
> >> > >
> >> > > the
> >> > >
> >> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did
> not.
> >> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
> >> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
> >> > >
> >> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
> >> too
> >> > > many. But I am flexible
> >> > >
> >> > > > Third part is criteria:
> >> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> >> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> >> > >
> >> > > at least free and proper licensed font
> >> > >
> >> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to
> demonstrate
> >> > > continuity.
> >> > >
> >> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> >> > > merchandising material has some advantages.
> >> > >
> >> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
> >> > > > point>
> >> > > in
> >> > >
> >> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
> >> > > > are
> >> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> >> > >
> >> > > feedbacks.
> >> > >
> >> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
> >> > >
> >> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until
> end
> >> of
> >> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
> >> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
> >> > >
> >> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> >> > > > populating this, such as dates.
> >> > >
> >> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping
> some
> >> of
> >> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a
> radical
> >> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
> >> > >
> >> > > Juergen
> >> > >
> >> > > > Samer
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> >> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
> >> > > >>> of us> >
> >> > > > can
> >> > > >
> >> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
> >> > >
> >> > > alphabets
> >> > >
> >> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we
> define
> >> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
> >> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
> >> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
> >> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
> >> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Just my opinion
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Juergen
> >>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
> effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
>
The main value of a contest is to increase the pool of ideas to select
from. Other projects have done this successfully before. But doing
it within the project could work as well. We could even do it within
the project, but have a blog post announcing that we're doing it,
encouraging more participation in the effort.
But however we do it the same forces are at work: A) What relative
effort to we spend collecting ideas versus refining ideas? B) How do
we decide when there is no consensus? C) How do we avoid the
well-known liabilities of "design by committee"? D) Ditto for
bike-shedding.
> In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
> the best practices and most liked parts.
> In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
> them out.
>
> I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
>
> We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
> promotional video.
> I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
> process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
> Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
> well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
>
Open source projects have had contests before, and they can work. But
I think that is just a form of idea generation. You don't necessarily
put the winning choice directly into the product. Refinement is still
needed. But if we think we already have enough raw-material of ideas,
or can get them within the existing group, then a contest is not
necessary.
> I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
> volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
> waiting.
>
> I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
> work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
> Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host them
> on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
> I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
> volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
>
> I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
> just to confirm what I make is fine.
> I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
> talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
>
> Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with the
> designers and changing this effort to team based?
>
You've said the magic words, "I volunteer to...". So this is
immediately better than any other idea we've had ;-) Thanks!
Regards,
-Rob
> Samer
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that has
>> been
>> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
>> devote some time to AOO once again.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
>> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
>> lunch
>> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>> >
>> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
>> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
>> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
>> > leave it up as what not to do...
>>
>> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience however.
>> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old OOo
>> art
>> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
>> again!
>> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
>>
>> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in the
>> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal for
>> the
>> RFP thread on Gmane here:
>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
>>
>>
>> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
>> need
>> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, they
>> are
>> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
>>
>> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
>>
>> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
>> impact, be
>> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
>> languages.
>> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global brand
>> and the brand has to reflect that.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
>> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
>> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>> >
>> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
>> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
>> > this.
>> >
>> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
>> > now.
>> >
>> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
>> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
>> feathers
>> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
>> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
>> > with versions.
>> >
>> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
>> > them related though.
>> > Tips for icons
>> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
>> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
>> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
>> user
>> > visually in the icon.
>> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
>> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
>> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well,
>> ie
>> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
>> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>>
>> >
>> > 3. Font
>> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck
>> in
>> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
>> everyday
>> > folk, they like sleek.
>>
>> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
>> with
>> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
>> end.
>> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will push
>> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of
>> our
>> end users are non-techy
>>
>> >
>> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
>> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying
>> to
>> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
>> original.
>> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
>> where
>> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
>> > part of it.
>> >
>> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
>> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
>> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
>> > to aim for.
>> >
>> > Samer
>>
>> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build a
>> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
>>
>> Cheers
>> GL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
>> > > >
>> > > > First part is dates.
>> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
>> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>> > >
>> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
>> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
>> later
>> > > this month.
>> > >
>> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
>> > > > integrate).
>> > >
>> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
>> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
>> logo,
>> > > banner logo etc.
>> > >
>> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
>> > >
>> > > aligned with 2.
>> > >
>> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
>> > >
>> > > not sure if this is needed at all
>> > >
>> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
>> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
>> > >
>> > > schedule
>> > >
>> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
>> > > > it.
>> > > >
>> > > > Second part is voting:
>> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
>> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
>> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again
>> > > > on
>> > >
>> > > the
>> > >
>> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
>> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
>> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>> > >
>> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
>> too
>> > > many. But I am flexible
>> > >
>> > > > Third part is criteria:
>> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
>> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>> > >
>> > > at least free and proper licensed font
>> > >
>> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
>> > > continuity.
>> > >
>> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
>> > > merchandising material has some advantages.
>> > >
>> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
>> > > > point>
>> > > in
>> > >
>> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
>> > > > are
>> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
>> > >
>> > > feedbacks.
>> > >
>> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>> > >
>> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end
>> of
>> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
>> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>> > >
>> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
>> > > > populating this, such as dates.
>> > >
>> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some
>> of
>> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
>> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>> > >
>> > > Juergen
>> > >
>> > > > Samer
>> > > >
>> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
>> > > >>> of us> >
>> > > > can
>> > > >
>> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
>> > >
>> > > alphabets
>> > >
>> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
>> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
>> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
>> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
>> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
>> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Just my opinion
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Juergen
>>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
Would it be ok to change this from a contest to more of a team-work
effort? Or is our hearts set on having a contest.
In a team effort we could take everyone proposals and integrate and adapt
the best practices and most liked parts.
In a team effort we could cut up the different branding tasks and assign
them out.
I think we can build a brand together better than we can individually.
We certainly can have a contest in a different area though, like a
promotional video.
I feel that a brand shouldn't be something up to a contest, and a RFP
process is too bureaucratic for a voluntary organization.
Does anyone feel similar? I don't know if people are thinking the same as
well. Specially because a lot of time has passed.
I am willing to take responsibility to drive the effort and work with the
volunteers who have already prepared work on the wiki and are willing and
waiting.
I would head the proposal for a new branding, organize the volunteers to
work together or integrate each other's ideas or designs.
Then from it we could take two or three full brand proposals and host them
on the wiki, then have the AOO community vote on those.
I would provide and organize all the material on the wiki, work with
volunteers to achieve their goals, yet satisfy our criteria.
I would communicate with marketing team to capture that criteria or even
just to confirm what I make is fine.
I would have to do my due diligence in researching branding so that our
talented designers doesn't need to worry about it.
Does anyone have an objection to me taking responsibility, working with the
designers and changing this effort to team based?
Samer
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that has
> been
> consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
> devote some time to AOO once again.
>
>
> On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
> lunch
> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
> >
> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
> > leave it up as what not to do...
>
> I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience however.
> The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old OOo
> art
> project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me
> again!
> :D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
>
> They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in the
> original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal for
> the
> RFP thread on Gmane here:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
>
>
> Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that
> need
> to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, they
> are
> a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
>
> http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
>
> We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have
> impact, be
> unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and
> languages.
> Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global brand
> and the brand has to reflect that.
>
>
> >
> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
> >
> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
> > this.
> >
> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
> > now.
> >
> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
> feathers
> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
> > with versions.
> >
> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
> > them related though.
> > Tips for icons
> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
> user
> > visually in the icon.
> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well,
> ie
> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>
> >
> > 3. Font
> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck
> in
> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
> everyday
> > folk, they like sleek.
>
> I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating
> with
> and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the
> end.
> It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will push
> the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of
> our
> end users are non-techy
>
> >
> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying
> to
> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
> original.
> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
> where
> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
> > part of it.
> >
> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
> > to aim for.
> >
> > Samer
>
> I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build a
> brand which is a whole different ballgame.
>
> Cheers
> GL
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> > > >
> > > > First part is dates.
> > > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> > > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> > >
> > > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
> > > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule
> later
> > > this month.
> > >
> > > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
> > > > integrate).
> > >
> > > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
> > > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app
> logo,
> > > banner logo etc.
> > >
> > > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> > >
> > > aligned with 2.
> > >
> > > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> > >
> > > not sure if this is needed at all
> > >
> > > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> > > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
> > >
> > > schedule
> > >
> > > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Second part is voting:
> > > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> > > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
> > > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again
> > > > on
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
> > > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
> > > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
> > >
> > > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do
> too
> > > many. But I am flexible
> > >
> > > > Third part is criteria:
> > > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> > > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> > >
> > > at least free and proper licensed font
> > >
> > > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
> > > continuity.
> > >
> > > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> > > merchandising material has some advantages.
> > >
> > > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
> > > > point>
> > > in
> > >
> > > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
> > > > are
> > > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> > >
> > > feedbacks.
> > >
> > > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
> > >
> > > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end
> of
> > > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
> > > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
> > >
> > > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> > > > populating this, such as dates.
> > >
> > > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some
> of
> > > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
> > > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
> > >
> > > Juergen
> > >
> > > > Samer
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> > > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
> > > >>> of us> >
> > > > can
> > > >
> > > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
> > >
> > > alphabets
> > >
> > > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> > > >>
> > > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
> > > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
> > > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
> > > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
> > > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
> > > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
> > > >>
> > > >> Just my opinion
> > > >>
> > > >> Juergen
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Graham Lauder <g....@gmail.com>.
Firstly an apology for my extended absence, however the contract that has been
consuming my time finishes tomorrow so I shall be unemployed and able to
devote some time to AOO once again.
On Tuesday 05 Feb 2013 13:50:35 Samer Mansour wrote:
> I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at lunch
> and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>
> Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
> feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
> it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
> leave it up as what not to do...
I love the IBM design team! :) Take it as a learning experience however.
The one time I made a gentle criticism of someones art work on the old OOo art
project list I got attacked and abused and the guy never talked to me again!
:D So I tend to be a little deferential these days.
They are so right however and I think I tried to cover those things in the
original proposal mail. Take some time to read the original proposal for the
RFP thread on Gmane here:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel/27742
Branding is not just a logo there is a whole raft of considerations that need
to go into a brand. This site explains the types of considerations, they are
a commercial desgn house but they explain it quite well:
http://www.redfiredesign.co.nz/difference-between-a-brand-and-a-logo/
We don't want just a logo, we want a brand. That brand has to have impact, be
unique, and tell the world about AOO across multiple cultures and languages.
Remember; OOo had around 120 Native language projects, it is a global brand
and the brand has to reflect that.
>
> I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
> them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>
> I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
> do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
> this.
>
> No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
> now.
>
> 1. It has to be reproducible.
> Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with feathers
> would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
> but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
> with versions.
>
> 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
> them related though.
> Tips for icons
> - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
> fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the user
> visually in the icon.
> - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
> tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well, ie
> C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
> with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>
> 3. Font
> What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck in
> the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users, everyday
> folk, they like sleek.
I like them better and better, End Users, that's who we're communicating with
and should be the arbiters of our brand ... in fact they will be in the end.
It's good to have input from people at the coalface who know what will push
the right buttons with our endusers. Remember that the vast majority of our
end users are non-techy
>
> 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying to
> integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and original.
> Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8 where
> the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
> part of it.
>
> I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
> feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
> quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
> to aim for.
>
> Samer
I look forward to seeing it, however it's just a logo, we need to build a
brand which is a whole different ballgame.
Cheers
GL
>
> On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> > >
> > > First part is dates.
> > > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> > > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> >
> > we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
> > we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule later
> > this month.
> >
> > > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to
> > > integrate).
> >
> > I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
> > need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app logo,
> > banner logo etc.
> >
> > > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> >
> > aligned with 2.
> >
> > > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> >
> > not sure if this is needed at all
> >
> > > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> > > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
> >
> > schedule
> >
> > > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Second part is voting:
> > > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> > > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
> > > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again
> > > on
> >
> > the
> >
> > > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
> > > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
> > > mailing lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
> >
> > good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do too
> > many. But I am flexible
> >
> > > Third part is criteria:
> > > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> > > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> >
> > at least free and proper licensed font
> >
> > I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
> > continuity.
> >
> > We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> > merchandising material has some advantages.
> >
> > > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
> > > point>
> > in
> >
> > > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs
> > > are
> > > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> >
> > feedbacks.
> >
> > > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
> >
> > In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end of
> > February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
> > should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
> >
> > > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> > > populating this, such as dates.
> >
> > thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some of
> > the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
> > new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
> >
> > Juergen
> >
> > > Samer
> > >
> > > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> > >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all
> > >>> of us> >
> > > can
> > >
> > >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
> >
> > alphabets
> >
> > >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> > >>
> > >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
> > >> some basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote
> > >> is open etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals
> > >> but in the end only one can make it. We should also consider a
> > >> complete brand, means a proposal that can be applied everywhere
> > >> (logo, file icons and app icon, webpage, intro, about, ...)
> > >>
> > >> Just my opinion
> > >>
> > >> Juergen
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know what exactly was meant by reproducible. It was points on a
> note pad I scribbled while they were talking...
> I think it helped me on a meta level for requirements. What is important
> in the logo to us? eg. I think we can agree the gulls are. eg. "Must
> integrate the idea of the gulls, but not necessarily the existing gull
> shape(s)"
> Maybe we come up with Primary Requirements and some Secondary
> Considerations we find important but not as important.
>
> I will try to head this and give it more attention.
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Brand+Contest+RFP
> I will review and revamp that page. Then I'll post it here and dev for
> thoughts.
>
Excellent.
> Agree, a wine expert is not going to tell me what wine I like. But they
> might be able to suggest a wine that's in right now and that a lot of
> people like.
> Expert's advice is often what is integrated into many commercial products.
> So it does hold some value and shouldn't be completely dismissed from
> consideration.
>
> I suggest we frame it as we're looking for a "logo refresh", not a new logo.
> We have a lot of history and loyal users from OOo days and even AOO 3.4.1
> that we want to reflect this as a refresh, we're improved. Not new. 4.0!
> Agree?
>
I'd recommend we separate the process by which we pick a new logo (a
RFP, a contest, voting, the technical requirements, etc.) from the
question of "logo refresh" versus "new logo". If we can get consensus
on moving the process forward, then we'll be well on the road to
answering the second question. But the 2nd question will spark enough
debate that it may be better to discuss it in the context of specific
examples, once we receive them.
IMHO.
-Rob
> Samer
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
>> lunch
>> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>> >
>> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
>> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
>> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
>> > leave it up as what not to do...
>> >
>> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
>> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
>> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>> >
>>
>> And I suppose a wine expert would tell me that the wine I like is not
>> good either ;-)
>>
>> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
>> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
>> > this.
>> >
>> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
>> > now.
>> >
>> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
>> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
>> feathers
>> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
>> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
>> > with versions.
>> >
>>
>> Reproduce in what sense? Do you mean print? Or photocopy? Is this a
>> concern about how fine details may be lost in mechanical reproduction?
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
>> > them related though.
>> > Tips for icons
>> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
>> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
>> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
>> user
>> > visually in the icon.
>> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
>> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
>> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well,
>> ie
>> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
>> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>> >
>> > 3. Font
>> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck
>> in
>> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
>> everyday
>> > folk, they like sleek.
>> >
>> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
>> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying
>> to
>> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
>> original.
>> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
>> where
>> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
>> > part of it.
>> >
>> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
>> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
>> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
>> > to aim for.
>> >
>> > Samer
>> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> >> > Picking a logo, hmmm.
>> >> >
>> >> > First part is dates.
>> >> > We could find our dates by working backwards:
>> >> > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>> >>
>> >> we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
>> >> we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule later
>> >> this month.
>> >>
>> >> > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
>> >> I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
>> >> need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app logo,
>> >> banner logo etc.
>> >>
>> >> > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
>> >> aligned with 2.
>> >>
>> >> > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
>> >> not sure if this is needed at all
>> >>
>> >> > 5. When is proposal deadline.
>> >> > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
>> >> schedule
>> >> > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
>> it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Second part is voting:
>> >> > How do we pick a logo by voting:
>> >> > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
>> >> > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on
>> >> the
>> >> > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
>> >> > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
>> mailing
>> >> > lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>> >>
>> >> good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do too
>> >> many. But I am flexible
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Third part is criteria:
>> >> > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
>> >> > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>> >> at least free and proper licensed font
>> >>
>> >> I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
>> >> continuity.
>> >>
>> >> We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
>> >> merchandising material has some advantages.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
>> point
>> >> in
>> >> > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
>> >> > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
>> >> feedbacks.
>> >> > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>> >>
>> >> In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end of
>> >> February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
>> >> should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
>> >> > populating this, such as dates.
>> >>
>> >> thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some of
>> >> the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
>> >> new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>> >>
>> >> Juergen
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Samer
>> >> >
>> >> > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> >> >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of
>> us
>> >> > can
>> >> >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
>> >> alphabets
>> >> >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
>> some
>> >> >> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
>> >> >> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the
>> end
>> >> >> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand,
>> means a
>> >> >> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app
>> icon,
>> >> >> webpage, intro, about, ...)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just my opinion
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Juergen
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
I don't know what exactly was meant by reproducible. It was points on a
note pad I scribbled while they were talking...
I think it helped me on a meta level for requirements. What is important
in the logo to us? eg. I think we can agree the gulls are. eg. "Must
integrate the idea of the gulls, but not necessarily the existing gull
shape(s)"
Maybe we come up with Primary Requirements and some Secondary
Considerations we find important but not as important.
I will try to head this and give it more attention.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Brand+Contest+RFP
I will review and revamp that page. Then I'll post it here and dev for
thoughts.
Agree, a wine expert is not going to tell me what wine I like. But they
might be able to suggest a wine that's in right now and that a lot of
people like.
Expert's advice is often what is integrated into many commercial products.
So it does hold some value and shouldn't be completely dismissed from
consideration.
I suggest we frame it as we're looking for a "logo refresh", not a new logo.
We have a lot of history and loyal users from OOo days and even AOO 3.4.1
that we want to reflect this as a refresh, we're improved. Not new. 4.0!
Agree?
Samer
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at
> lunch
> > and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
> >
> > Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
> > feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
> > it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
> > leave it up as what not to do...
> >
> > I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
> > them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> > knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
> >
>
> And I suppose a wine expert would tell me that the wine I like is not
> good either ;-)
>
> > I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
> > do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
> > this.
> >
> > No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
> > now.
> >
> > 1. It has to be reproducible.
> > Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with
> feathers
> > would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
> > but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
> > with versions.
> >
>
> Reproduce in what sense? Do you mean print? Or photocopy? Is this a
> concern about how fine details may be lost in mechanical reproduction?
>
> -Rob
>
> > 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
> > them related though.
> > Tips for icons
> > - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> > - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
> > fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the
> user
> > visually in the icon.
> > - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
> > tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> > - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well,
> ie
> > C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
> > with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
> >
> > 3. Font
> > What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck
> in
> > the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users,
> everyday
> > folk, they like sleek.
> >
> > 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> > - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying
> to
> > integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and
> original.
> > Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8
> where
> > the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
> > part of it.
> >
> > I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
> > feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
> > quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
> > to aim for.
> >
> > Samer
> > On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> >> > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> >> >
> >> > First part is dates.
> >> > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> >> > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> >>
> >> we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
> >> we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule later
> >> this month.
> >>
> >> > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
> >> I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
> >> need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app logo,
> >> banner logo etc.
> >>
> >> > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> >> aligned with 2.
> >>
> >> > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> >> not sure if this is needed at all
> >>
> >> > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> >> > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
> >> schedule
> >> > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss
> it.
> >> >
> >> > Second part is voting:
> >> > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> >> > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
> >> > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on
> >> the
> >> > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
> >> > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the
> mailing
> >> > lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
> >>
> >> good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do too
> >> many. But I am flexible
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Third part is criteria:
> >> > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> >> > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> >> at least free and proper licensed font
> >>
> >> I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
> >> continuity.
> >>
> >> We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> >> merchandising material has some advantages.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this
> point
> >> in
> >> > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
> >> > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> >> feedbacks.
> >> > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
> >>
> >> In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end of
> >> February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
> >> should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> >> > populating this, such as dates.
> >>
> >> thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some of
> >> the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
> >> new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Samer
> >> >
> >> > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> >> >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of
> us
> >> > can
> >> >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
> >> alphabets
> >> >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> >> >>
> >> >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define
> some
> >> >> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
> >> >> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the
> end
> >> >> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand,
> means a
> >> >> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app
> icon,
> >> >> webpage, intro, about, ...)
> >> >>
> >> >> Just my opinion
> >> >>
> >> >> Juergen
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at lunch
> and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
>
> Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
> feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
> it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
> leave it up as what not to do...
>
> I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
> them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
> knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
>
And I suppose a wine expert would tell me that the wine I like is not
good either ;-)
> I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
> do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
> this.
>
> No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
> now.
>
> 1. It has to be reproducible.
> Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with feathers
> would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
> but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
> with versions.
>
Reproduce in what sense? Do you mean print? Or photocopy? Is this a
concern about how fine details may be lost in mechanical reproduction?
-Rob
> 2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
> them related though.
> Tips for icons
> - Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
> - Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
> fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the user
> visually in the icon.
> - Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
> tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
> - Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well, ie
> C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
> with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
>
> 3. Font
> What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck in
> the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users, everyday
> folk, they like sleek.
>
> 4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
> - We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying to
> integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and original.
> Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8 where
> the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
> part of it.
>
> I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
> feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
> quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
> to aim for.
>
> Samer
> On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
>> > Picking a logo, hmmm.
>> >
>> > First part is dates.
>> > We could find our dates by working backwards:
>> > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>>
>> we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
>> we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule later
>> this month.
>>
>> > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
>> I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
>> need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app logo,
>> banner logo etc.
>>
>> > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
>> aligned with 2.
>>
>> > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
>> not sure if this is needed at all
>>
>> > 5. When is proposal deadline.
>> > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
>> schedule
>> > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss it.
>> >
>> > Second part is voting:
>> > How do we pick a logo by voting:
>> > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
>> > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on
>> the
>> > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
>> > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the mailing
>> > lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>>
>> good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do too
>> many. But I am flexible
>>
>> >
>> > Third part is criteria:
>> > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
>> > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>> at least free and proper licensed font
>>
>> I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
>> continuity.
>>
>> We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
>> merchandising material has some advantages.
>>
>> >
>> > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this point
>> in
>> > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
>> > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
>> feedbacks.
>> > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>>
>> In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end of
>> February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
>> should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>>
>> >
>> > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
>> > populating this, such as dates.
>>
>> thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some of
>> the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
>> new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>> >
>> > Samer
>> >
>> > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of us
>> > can
>> >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
>> alphabets
>> >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>> >>
>> >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define some
>> >> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
>> >> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the end
>> >> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand, means a
>> >> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app icon,
>> >> webpage, intro, about, ...)
>> >>
>> >> Just my opinion
>> >>
>> >> Juergen
>> >
>>
>>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com>.
I just talked to a few full time designers at IBM I ran into while at lunch
and showed them the proposals so far just as a "what do you think?"
Just saying this now, my design got slammed, after they told me tips and
feedback I was convinced it was bad, even though I thought very highly of
it 10 mins prior. I think I want to pull it out at this point, but we'll
leave it up as what not to do...
I would recommend anyone here to reach out to designers they know and ask
them for feedback on the proposal pages, ideas they have. The more
knowledge and feedback we collect the better we are going into this.
I can summarize their feedback and some helpful points. We don't have to
do any changes we don't feel are right, but it could only help us to hear
this.
No particular order, I wrote down points, just writing them out detailed
now.
1. It has to be reproducible.
Chris R's is a great example, very simple logo. Both logo's with feathers
would be a nightmare to reproduce. Suggested not to be part of the logo,
but it can be part of a website design or splash screen, refresh/changes
with versions.
2. It does not need to be part of the icons. Bonus points if you can make
them related though.
Tips for icons
- Can't go solely on colours for distinguishing modules.
- Primary detail (Table, Sigma, Database, Text Lines, etc.) should be
fairly large and pronounced as the main idea being communicated to the user
visually in the icon.
- Secondary detail - (brand) smaller, eg. single small bird in corner to
tie it to the brand, again optional and remove for simplicity.
- Do not user language characters, as it does not internationalize well, ie
C for calc, M for math. Criticism seen in Adobe products (they get away
with it). Sigma is fine, as its internationally known.
3. Font
What's in is thin, sleek fonts. ie. my font choice looks like I'm stuck in
the 90s, very techy looking. Who are we appealing to? End users, everyday
folk, they like sleek.
4. Don't constrain ourselves to rounded square
- We seem to be trying to fit a predefined container. Same with trying to
integrate the colours. We're trying too hard. Keep it simple and original.
Don't have the gulls hanging in mid air. "Ground them" Michael's #8 where
the wings touch the circle is a good example of how to do that. They are
part of it.
I'm going to go home and make a new proposal that will highlight this
feedback, soon hopefully. Just to show the ideas in an example. I will
quantify some of these as possible requirements so that we have something
to aim for.
Samer
On Feb 5, 2013 4:41 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> > Picking a logo, hmmm.
> >
> > First part is dates.
> > We could find our dates by working backwards:
> > 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
>
> we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
> we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule later
> this month.
>
> > 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
> I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
> need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app logo,
> banner logo etc.
>
> > 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> aligned with 2.
>
> > 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> not sure if this is needed at all
>
> > 5. When is proposal deadline.
> > Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the
> schedule
> > so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss it.
> >
> > Second part is voting:
> > How do we pick a logo by voting:
> > - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
> > weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on
> the
> > next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
> > - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the mailing
> > lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>
> good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do too
> many. But I am flexible
>
> >
> > Third part is criteria:
> > - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> > - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
> at least free and proper licensed font
>
> I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
> continuity.
>
> We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
> merchandising material has some advantages.
>
> >
> > From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this point
> in
> > time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
> > beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our
> feedbacks.
> > Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>
> In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end of
> February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
> should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>
> >
> > Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> > populating this, such as dates.
>
> thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some of
> the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
> new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
>
> Juergen
>
> >
> > Samer
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
> >>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of us
> > can
> >>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use
> alphabets
> >>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
> >>
> >> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define some
> >> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
> >> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the end
> >> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand, means a
> >> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app icon,
> >> webpage, intro, about, ...)
> >>
> >> Just my opinion
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >
>
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 2/5/13 7:31 AM, Samer Mansour wrote:
> Picking a logo, hmmm.
>
> First part is dates.
> We could find our dates by working backwards:
> 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
we currently focus on April/May but no exact dates planned yet because
we have still many things to do. I expect a more detailed schedule later
this month.
> 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
I would say we should focus on end of February. Keep in mind that we
need final design work after we picked a proposal, need icons, app logo,
banner logo etc.
> 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
aligned with 2.
> 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
not sure if this is needed at all
> 5. When is proposal deadline.
> Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the schedule
> so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss it.
>
> Second part is voting:
> How do we pick a logo by voting:
> - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
> weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on the
> next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
> - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the mailing
> lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
good question, we can run of course several rounds but I wouldn't do too
many. But I am flexible
>
> Third part is criteria:
> - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
at least free and proper licensed font
I personally would keep the blue as our preferred color to demonstrate
continuity.
We should keep in mind that a logo that can be used for different
merchandising material has some advantages.
>
> From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this point in
> time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
> beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our feedbacks.
> Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
In general I would recommend to select one of the proposals until end of
February and target the final bits until end of March. Integration
should take not too long and we can test it afterwards in detail.
>
> Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> populating this, such as dates.
thanks for driving this forward. A new fresh design with keeping some of
the former elements or colors is a good move. We don't need a radical
new design, a refresh is perfect form my point of view.
Juergen
>
> Samer
>
> On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>>> I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of us
> can
>>> have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use alphabets
>>> for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>>
>> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define some
>> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
>> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the end
>> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand, means a
>> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app icon,
>> webpage, intro, about, ...)
>>
>> Just my opinion
>>
>> Juergen
>
Re: Structuring The New Logo Proposal
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:31 AM, Samer Mansour <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Picking a logo, hmmm.
>
> First part is dates.
> We could find our dates by working backwards:
> 1. When is the estimated release date of AOO4?
> 2. When do we need to have a logo picked (consider time to integrate).
> 3. When do we need to start a final vote.
> 4. If/When do we need a preliminary/elimination vote.
> 5. When is proposal deadline.
> Consider how much time for each of the above steps, advertise the schedule
> so that everyone voting knows when voting will occur and won't miss it.
>
> Second part is voting:
> How do we pick a logo by voting:
> - We could do rounds of elimination voting. Like American Idol, the
> weakest X number of logo gets eliminated. You can then vote again on the
> next round for a logo that survived if your first logo pick did not.
> - Who gets to vote? Help me on this one, I'm newb, is it all the mailing
> lists? Dev list, etc. one person a vote.
>
Previous discussions got bogged down on this point. Some said that we
should not base it on popularity, but on objective standards and an
expert evaluation of the logos. Others said we should vote. IMHO, we
want to aim for two things: a logo that is objectively good, but also
one that is accepted by the community. So personally I think some
form of voting is necessary, though maybe with an opportunity for
experts to weigh in and make their arguments.
Also, there are ranked voting schemes we can use that would avoid the
need for multiple rounds. For example, single transferable voting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
> Third part is criteria:
> - What are the minimum criteria for the logo.
> - What are the constraints of the logo, if any, ie. technical.
>
We started to put together a formal call for proposals last year:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Brand+Contest+RFP
but it lost steam.
One approach that I suggested as to keep it in two phases:
Phase I: Only a basic logo needs to be provided, bitmap or vector
format. We then vote to determine the top 3 choices.
Phase II: The designers of the top 3 choices then refine their ideas
and provide a more complete logo package, which might require vector
source, splash screen, web logo, profile picture for Twitter, etc. We
define a package of required variations that must be included. We
then vote among the the three submissions.
With this approach we make it easier for anyone to enter. They don't
need to commit to a lot of design variations up front. They only do
the extra stuff if they are in the top 3.
Another point was what the winner(s) might get. We don't have the
ability to offer cash prizes, unless a sponsor steps forward to offer
one. But we could reward the winner(s) with some recognition, in a
press release, blog interview, podcast, or something similar.
Regards,
-Rob
> From the sounds of it, we were not proposing finished work at this point in
> time. Still a lot of bouncing ideas, I do feel like our designs are
> beginning to conform to a higher than all of us design from our feedbacks.
> Maybe voting will be easy, who knows. I'm optimistic here.
>
> Feedback is welcome, specially in areas like voting. We can start
> populating this, such as dates.
>
> Samer
>
> On Feb 4, 2013 6:11 AM, "Jürgen Schmidt" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 2/1/13 6:03 PM, Kadal Amutham wrote:
>> > I have edited the wiki , giving numbers to all the logos. So all of us
> can
>> > have a look and vote as follows giving the ranking. Kinldy use alphabets
>> > for ranking meaning A as the best, B next one and Z the last.
>>
>> before we start voting on the logos I would suggest that we define some
>> basic rules and a timeline (when to start, how long the vote is open
>> etc.). We have some very interesting and good proposals but in the end
>> only one can make it. We should also consider a complete brand, means a
>> proposal that can be applied everywhere (logo, file icons and app icon,
>> webpage, intro, about, ...)
>>
>> Just my opinion
>>
>> Juergen