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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com> on 2011/12/15 10:55:15 UTC
[Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Hi,
Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
cost a lot.
As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
mentioned in this thread
(http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html)
to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
...
What do you think about that ?
Regards,
Charles Moulliard
Apache Committer
Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
Skype: cmoulliard
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Strachan <ja...@fusesource.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
To: dev@karaf.apache.org
Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
community & project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
etc.
Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
duplicating that effort.
Given how modular OSGi & Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
that?).
On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
> karaf command.
>
> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
> Transaction Manager.
>
> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
> some arguments could be :
> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
> (e.g : features, ...).
> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
> architecture.
>
> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>
> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
> - http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html
>
> What do you think about this proposition ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> Skype: cmoulliard
--
James
-------
FuseSource
Email: james@fusesource.com
Web: http://fusesource.com
Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
Open Source Integration and Messaging
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Viola,
right, but together, by joining the effort from the two communities, I'm
quite sure that we can provide something really great ;)
Regards
JB
On 12/15/2011 02:49 PM, viola lu wrote:
> But a lot of work to do
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:27 PM, viola lu <viola.lu@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> It seems like a good idea to me.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> <jb@nanthrax.net <ma...@nanthrax.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from
> the Geronimo community.
>
> I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo
> community around the Karaf usage and see what we can do to
> provide a better Geronimo and Karaf.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion
> about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the
> reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel
> (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that
> makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform
> not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE
> platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects
> interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an
> alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server,
> certify it,
> cost a lot.
>
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the
> work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about
> collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to
> address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (http://karaf.922171.n3.__nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-__KarafEE-td3585332.html
> <http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html>)
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using
> "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf
> web console,
> ...
>
> What do you think about that ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/__charlesmoulliard
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Strachan<james@fusesource.com
> <ma...@fusesource.com>>
> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org <ma...@karaf.apache.org>
>
>
> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE;
> am not
> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo
> community to fix
> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing
> up the web
> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require
> forking a
> community& project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be
> happy to
>
> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an
> EE context
> etc.
>
> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has
> to be a
> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a
> massive
> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
> duplicating that effort.
>
> Given how modular OSGi& Karaf are; am not sure why any of
> these goals
>
> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo
> uninstall its
> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a
> community for
> that?).
>
> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles
> Moulliard<cmoulliard@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>__> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community
> since a couple of
> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on
> Apache Karaf. The
> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs
> jars registered.
> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily
> scan (like we
> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB
> jars file and add
> karaf command.
>
> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in
> place to
> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise
> Edition) release
> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax
> Web, Aries
> Transaction Manager.
>
> The first question/remark that I will receive from the
> communauty will
> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already
> there and use
> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a
> lot of good
> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion
> carefully but
> some arguments could be :
> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to
> what we have
> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de
> facto servers used
> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet
> recognized as a
> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of
> tooling,
> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a
> new OSGI true
> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache
> Geronimo is a bit
> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are
> not enable
> (e.g : features, ...).
> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache
> Karaf and now
> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache
> WebConsole Felix
> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more
> and more
> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design
> multi-servers
> architecture.
>
> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a
> subproject having its
> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly
> process,
> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>
> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for
> that purpose
> -
> http://openejb.979440.n4.__nabble.com/Proposition-New-__maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-__tt4194577.html
> <http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html>
>
> What do you think about this proposition ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/__charlesmoulliard
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
>
> --
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email: james@fusesource.com <ma...@fusesource.com>
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>
> Open Source Integration and Messaging
>
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> viola
>
> Apache Geronimo
>
>
>
>
> --
> viola
>
> Apache Geronimo
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by viola lu <vi...@gmail.com>.
But a lot of work to do
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:27 PM, viola lu <vi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems like a good idea to me.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from the
>> Geronimo community.
>>
>> I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo community around
>> the Karaf usage and see what we can do to provide a better Geronimo and
>> Karaf.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
>>> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
>>> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
>>> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
>>> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
>>> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
>>> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
>>> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
>>> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
>>> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
>>> cost a lot.
>>>
>>> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
>>> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
>>> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
>>> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
>>> mentioned in this thread
>>> (http://karaf.922171.n3.**nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-**
>>> KarafEE-td3585332.html<http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html>
>>> )
>>> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
>>> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
>>> ...
>>>
>>> What do you think about that ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charles Moulliard
>>>
>>> Apache Committer
>>>
>>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/**charlesmoulliard<http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
>>> Skype: cmoulliard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: James Strachan<ja...@fusesource.com>
>>> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
>>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
>>> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
>>> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
>>> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
>>> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
>>> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
>>> community& project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
>>>
>>> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
>>> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
>>> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
>>> duplicating that effort.
>>>
>>> Given how modular OSGi& Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
>>>
>>> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
>>> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
>>> that?).
>>>
>>> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard<cmoulliard@gmail.com**>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
>>>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
>>>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
>>>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
>>>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
>>>> karaf command.
>>>>
>>>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
>>>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
>>>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
>>>> Transaction Manager.
>>>>
>>>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
>>>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
>>>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
>>>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
>>>> some arguments could be :
>>>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
>>>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
>>>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
>>>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
>>>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
>>>> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
>>>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
>>>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
>>>> (e.g : features, ...).
>>>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
>>>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
>>>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
>>>> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
>>>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
>>>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
>>>> architecture.
>>>>
>>>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
>>>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
>>>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>>>>
>>>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
>>>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
>>>> - http://openejb.979440.n4.**nabble.com/Proposition-New-**
>>>> maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-**tt4194577.html<http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think about this proposition ?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Charles Moulliard
>>>>
>>>> Apache Committer
>>>>
>>>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>>>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>>>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/**charlesmoulliard<http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
>>>> Skype: cmoulliard
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James
>>> -------
>>> FuseSource
>>> Email: james@fusesource.com
>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
>>> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Open Source Integration and Messaging
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> viola
>
> Apache Geronimo
>
>
--
viola
Apache Geronimo
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by viola lu <vi...@gmail.com>.
It seems like a good idea to me.
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from the
> Geronimo community.
>
> I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo community around
> the Karaf usage and see what we can do to provide a better Geronimo and
> Karaf.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
>> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
>> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
>> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
>> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
>> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
>> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
>> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
>> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
>> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
>> cost a lot.
>>
>> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
>> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
>> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
>> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
>> mentioned in this thread
>> (http://karaf.922171.n3.**nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-**
>> KarafEE-td3585332.html<http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html>
>> )
>> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
>> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
>> ...
>>
>> What do you think about that ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles Moulliard
>>
>> Apache Committer
>>
>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/**charlesmoulliard<http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
>> Skype: cmoulliard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: James Strachan<ja...@fusesource.com>
>> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>
>>
>> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
>> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
>> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
>> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
>> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
>> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
>> community& project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
>>
>> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
>> etc.
>>
>> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
>> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
>> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
>> duplicating that effort.
>>
>> Given how modular OSGi& Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
>>
>> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
>> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
>> that?).
>>
>> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard<cmoulliard@gmail.com**>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
>>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
>>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
>>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
>>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
>>> karaf command.
>>>
>>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
>>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
>>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
>>> Transaction Manager.
>>>
>>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
>>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
>>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
>>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
>>> some arguments could be :
>>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
>>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
>>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
>>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
>>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
>>> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
>>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
>>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
>>> (e.g : features, ...).
>>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
>>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
>>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
>>> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
>>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
>>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
>>> architecture.
>>>
>>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
>>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
>>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>>>
>>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
>>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
>>> - http://openejb.979440.n4.**nabble.com/Proposition-New-**
>>> maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-**tt4194577.html<http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html>
>>>
>>> What do you think about this proposition ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charles Moulliard
>>>
>>> Apache Committer
>>>
>>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/**charlesmoulliard<http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
>>> Skype: cmoulliard
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James
>> -------
>> FuseSource
>> Email: james@fusesource.com
>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
>> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Open Source Integration and Messaging
>>
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
--
viola
Apache Geronimo
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Charles,
as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from the
Geronimo community.
I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo community
around the Karaf usage and see what we can do to provide a better
Geronimo and Karaf.
Regards
JB
On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
> cost a lot.
>
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html)
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
> ...
>
> What do you think about that ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Strachan<ja...@fusesource.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>
>
> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
> community& project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
> etc.
>
> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
> duplicating that effort.
>
> Given how modular OSGi& Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
> that?).
>
> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard<cm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
>> karaf command.
>>
>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
>> Transaction Manager.
>>
>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
>> some arguments could be :
>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
>> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
>> (e.g : features, ...).
>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
>> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
>> architecture.
>>
>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>>
>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
>> - http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html
>>
>> What do you think about this proposition ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles Moulliard
>>
>> Apache Committer
>>
>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
>> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
> --
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email: james@fusesource.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>
> Open Source Integration and Messaging
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com>.
Hi David, Kevan,
As I forgotten to subscribe to this mailing, this is now that I discover
your comments regarding to my suggestion. I will take the time in the next
days to provide adequate response but here is a status about what we have
done with KarafEE (= Apache Karaf + OpenEJB).
- Apache OpenEJB team has created a Apache KarafEE (project). Till now, it
is part of OpenEJB subversion trunk
(http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openejb/trunk/openejb/osgi/) and contains
Karaf 2.2.4 + rebrand + command to list, deploy, undeploy EJBs components
and of course OpenEJB deployed as features
- Apache KarafEE or Karaf + OpenEJB have succeeded to deploy @Stateless,
@Statefull, @Singletion, @Inject beans like also @Entity beans (which are
deploy by OpenEJB in OpenJPA)
- The beans can be called using OSGI service and interface name or using EJB
lookup mechanism (local, remote)
- Different tests have been made like also calling EJBs beans from camel
routes
- Bundles containing beans with @EJB annotations or xml descriptor files
like also persistence.xml files are automatically registered in the OpenEJB
container
Regards,
Charles
--
View this message in context: http://apache-geronimo.328035.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Collaboration-between-Karaf-Geronimo-tp3588113p3631685.html
Sent from the Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Dec 15, 2011, at 4:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
> cost a lot.
>
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html)
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
> ...
>
> What do you think about that ?
You may need to be more precise about what exact capabilities/features you are looking for…
David Jencks has been working on some Karaf updates necessary for a more complete Karaf integration within Geronimo.
We do have a general desire to move Geronimo from the current GBeans to an OSGi service-based infrastructure. If this is inline with your thinking, than I'd say there's a definite possibility for collaboration… Your thoughts, ideas, and contributions would be welcomed by the Geronimo community.
--kevan
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by David Jencks <da...@yahoo.com>.
Hi Charles,
I've spent a very large amount of my time over the last year working towards basically this goal. Unfortunately most of the results are not public at the moment, being on my local git repo. If anyone is interested in actually looking at them I can see about making a github branch for the most advanced version of this stuff.
I wasn't all that successful with modifying the existing geronimo module/component framework to fit into osgi. There's a lot of useful integration code in geronimo, but tying it to the gbean/configuration framework makes it very hard to make osgi friendly.
On the other hand I have been able to provide karaf with the facilities (working feature and kar creation, and working server assembly) so the idea of assembling something with geronimo's capabilities on top of karaf is plausible.
At the moment I think the best way to proceed on such a project is to, module by module, convert the existing code to pure-osgi. For instance I've modified the connector/transaction components this way in my sandbox. Once we have several of the modules working in this way we could start thinking about running at least parts of the tck against it.
There is quite a bit of useful functionality in the geronimo admin console. However, it's all written in portlets since at the time that was the only plausible way we could find to get an extensible web app. (I still don't know exactly how karaf web console works, whether it provides navigation similar to the g. console, etc). So I think we'd want to look into providing the useful bits in a way that integrates with the karaf console.
I'm hoping to commit in the next day or two some work that moves geronimo to karaf 3 and actually uses karaf rather than copying and modifying the startup code. I'm not sure this will be a fully functioning server right off but at least would bring geronimo more up to date.
If anyone is interested in pursuing specific bits of this I think the places to start would be with jpa, replacing our stuff as much as possible with the aries jpa code, and turning the geronimo jacc and jaspic security code into appropriate osgi services.
One question to consider is whether to preserve geronimo's historical idea of processing all spec deployment plans (e.g. web.xml), annotations, and vendor deployment plans (geronimo-web.xml) into a single set of info and recording that the bundleized javaee app (or in a bundle's data area for a "javaee bundle" such as a wab) or whether to process all this info every time the bundle is started. I think that processing it once and saving the results is reasonable, but at least one component (openwebbeans) doesn't fit this model at all. Possibly some intermediate idea such as caching the set of annotated classes would work.
In any case, all help is welcome, but expect this to be a lot of work, even before we get to the tck.
thanks
david jencks
On Dec 15, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
> cost a lot.
>
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html)
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
> ...
>
> What do you think about that ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Strachan <ja...@fusesource.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>
>
> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
> community & project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
> etc.
>
> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
> duplicating that effort.
>
> Given how modular OSGi & Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
> that?).
>
> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
>> karaf command.
>>
>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
>> Transaction Manager.
>>
>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
>> some arguments could be :
>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
>> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
>> (e.g : features, ...).
>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
>> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
>> architecture.
>>
>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>>
>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
>> - http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html
>>
>> What do you think about this proposition ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles Moulliard
>>
>> Apache Committer
>>
>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
>> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
> --
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email: james@fusesource.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>
> Open Source Integration and Messaging
Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Posted by Rex Wang <rw...@gmail.com>.
So, in a word, IIUC, you are suggesting leverage the karaf features more in
geronimo? Actually, there was some similar discussions in geronimo mailling
list before. And David Jencks did a lot of investigation about this. Please
see his post as following:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-dev/201103.mbox/%3CF9AA388E-8050-4055-8719-5CD14B5125F8@yahoo.com%3E
There really would be a lot of works to do to replace the current geronimo
plugins mechanism with karaf features. And sure, I'd like to see geronimo
to be more OSGi-friendly in future. However, TCK would be the main issue to
do such fundamental refactor. That will involve a great many resources to
make the server comply with it.
-Rex
2011/12/15 Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com>
> Hi,
>
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
> cost a lot.
>
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (
> http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html
> )
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
> ...
>
> What do you think about that ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Strachan <ja...@fusesource.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>
>
> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
> community & project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
> etc.
>
> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
> duplicating that effort.
>
> Given how modular OSGi & Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
> that?).
>
> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard <cm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
> > weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
> > OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
> > Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
> > do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
> > karaf command.
> >
> > When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
> > propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
> > packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
> > Transaction Manager.
> >
> > The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
> > be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
> > Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
> > reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
> > some arguments could be :
> > (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
> > in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
> > in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
> > robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
> > complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
> > J2EE server could help to spread the world,
> > (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
> > different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
> > (e.g : features, ...).
> > (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
> > with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
> > (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
> > project does not longer use de facto Spring !
> > (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
> > deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
> > architecture.
> >
> > KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
> > own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
> > featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
> >
> > Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
> > karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
> > -
> http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html
> >
> > What do you think about this proposition ?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Charles Moulliard
> >
> > Apache Committer
> >
> > Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> > Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> > Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> > Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
> --
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email: james@fusesource.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>
> Open Source Integration and Messaging
>
--
Lei Wang (Rex)
rwonly AT apache.org