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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> on 2022/01/01 11:29:11 UTC
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
For Dark Mode, one can apply a color filter that inverts the brightness without changing the hues. I.e. so red stays red but black becomes white etc. Here's an example (inverting the L channel in LAB color space):
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13038140/220101%20Updated%20Dark%20Filter%20Test.png
ImageUtilities actually has support for pluggable color filters already.
Other color scheme changes would probably be best to do once a substantial number of icons have been vectorized. Otherwise there will be old bitmap icons with the old color scheme next to new icons with the new color scheme. But once the icon shapes are drawn, changing the color scheme later should be quite easy. It's drawing the actual shapes and bezier curves etc. that take up most of the time.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 6:30 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 at 12:26, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Other topics discussed:
> * Arafat proposed more ambitious changes to NetBeans' look & feel, and we exchanged ideas. Eirik mentioned the recent discussion thread that ended up making FlatLAF the default LAF on NetBeans.
> * Arafat also mentioned possible approaches to get support for animated icons.
All sounds exciting!
While discussing SVG features, a bigger one than animation might be CSS? Or at least, at this stage, could we ensure icons have classes for a small range of accent colours? Obviously, certain things like "stop" you might want always to be red. Whereas other accent colours might be better to pick up from the look and feel. And it would be great to never have to rely on the _dark suffix for svg icons.
Obviously there's a need to look at changes in the icon loading to allow specifying the right stylesheet via Batik too.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Alexius DIAKOGIANNIS <al...@outlook.com>.
I just saw this thread and I am happy to help. Is there any group for that?
--
Alexius Dennis DIAKOGIANNIS
Archer/Software Architect/Java Geek
About me: https://about.me/diakogiannis/
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/diakogiannis/
Blog: https://www.jee.gr
PGP Pub Key: https://pgp.key-server.io/0x669822139B6027AC
________________________________
From: Eric Bresie <eb...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 6:09 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 6:05 AM Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> My general point is that redrawing the icons is a massive task--there are
> thousands of unique icons in NetBeans, and many hundreds that are seen
> frequently. We really need to keep the process as simple as possible, to
> have a chance to get it done. The main goal here--for my own work at
> least--is to make NetBeans look good on Retina displays (all MacBooks) and
> other HiDPI displays (on both Windows and Linux).
>
There was brief discussion on possibility of automating the transformation
to SVG ( https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread%2Fg578klsz72pmdpyw9ll49dm6393k1vf8&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca7b0dd25c0814d25778808d9ce12aa94%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767401827460750%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=F3oSlg6syOxCfrjcpKb7CXGSD3cZSBgTLVbO%2BQJU5lo%3D&reserved=0
) but believe it was found to not really be a good option, but figured I
mention in case I’ve misinterpreted it.
> It's probably less work to consider this now than retrofit them all later?
> No, I think retrofitting is actually easier--it could be done in one big
> batch operation. It would have to be part of a general effort to change the
> color scheme, which requires seeing all the ready-drawn icons side-by-side.
> There's also the YAGNI principle--don't pre-architect for functionality we
> won't yet implement.
>
> I also happen to think that the existing icon color scheme is actually a
> good one, and that animations should be avoided. Accent colors are a good
> idea, but can be limited to other parts of the LAF, such as selection
> highlights.
>
> -- Eirik
>
--
Eric Bresie
ebresie@gmail.com
Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eric Bresie <eb...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 6:05 AM Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> My general point is that redrawing the icons is a massive task--there are
> thousands of unique icons in NetBeans, and many hundreds that are seen
> frequently. We really need to keep the process as simple as possible, to
> have a chance to get it done. The main goal here--for my own work at
> least--is to make NetBeans look good on Retina displays (all MacBooks) and
> other HiDPI displays (on both Windows and Linux).
>
There was brief discussion on possibility of automating the transformation
to SVG ( https://lists.apache.org/thread/g578klsz72pmdpyw9ll49dm6393k1vf8
) but believe it was found to not really be a good option, but figured I
mention in case I’ve misinterpreted it.
> It's probably less work to consider this now than retrofit them all later?
> No, I think retrofitting is actually easier--it could be done in one big
> batch operation. It would have to be part of a general effort to change the
> color scheme, which requires seeing all the ready-drawn icons side-by-side.
> There's also the YAGNI principle--don't pre-architect for functionality we
> won't yet implement.
>
> I also happen to think that the existing icon color scheme is actually a
> good one, and that animations should be avoided. Accent colors are a good
> idea, but can be limited to other parts of the LAF, such as selection
> highlights.
>
> -- Eirik
>
--
Eric Bresie
ebresie@gmail.com
Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>.
ok
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 8:04 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
> Yes, I know, it's horrible!
I thought it looked quite nice :-)
My general point is that redrawing the icons is a massive task--there are thousands of unique icons in NetBeans, and many hundreds that are seen frequently. We really need to keep the process as simple as possible, to have a chance to get it done. The main goal here--for my own work at least--is to make NetBeans look good on Retina displays (all MacBooks) and other HiDPI displays (on both Windows and Linux).
> It's probably less work to consider this now than retrofit them all later?
No, I think retrofitting is actually easier--it could be done in one big batch operation. It would have to be part of a general effort to change the color scheme, which requires seeing all the ready-drawn icons side-by-side. There's also the YAGNI principle--don't pre-architect for functionality we won't yet implement.
I also happen to think that the existing icon color scheme is actually a good one, and that animations should be avoided. Accent colors are a good idea, but can be limited to other parts of the LAF, such as selection highlights.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 12:38 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 11:29, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> For Dark Mode, one can apply a color filter that inverts the brightness without changing the hues.
Yes, I know, it's horrible!
> Other color scheme changes would probably be best to do once a substantial number of icons have been vectorized.
I wasn't suggesting otherwise, just asking to consider future proofing the SVGs now with CSS classes (or other mechanism) so this can more easily be done later. It's probably less work to consider this now than retrofit them all later?
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>.
Looks great!
Le mar. 8 févr. 2022 à 10:19, Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk> a écrit :
> Hey Eirik and All
> Please check the attachment. Is the designs good? Sorry i was so busy.
> Have a sync up meeting?
>
> Thanks
>
> From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk ,
> Mobile : 96554595)
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:48 AM
> *To:* Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
> *Cc:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <
> dev@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat
> BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
> In case it is helpful, I made a quick screencast video showing the icon
> drawing process I used in the past, in Adobe Illustrator:
>
>
>
> https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/667860571
>
>
>
> -- Eirik
>
>
>
> *From:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:35 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
> *Cc:* Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>;
> Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> No worries, thanks for the update!
>
>
>
> Le mer. 19 janv. 2022 à 14:35, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> a écrit :
>
> Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to
> answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
>
>
>
> (When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the
> right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes
> faster after a few icons!)
>
>
>
> There is also a style guide at
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
>
>
>
> -- Eirik
>
>
>
> *From:* Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>;
> dev@netbeans.apache.org
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned,
> please give me more time.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Venus
> ------------------------------
>
> *寄件者:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
> *寄件日期:* 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
> *收件者:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <
> dev@netbeans.apache.org>
> *副本:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
> *主旨:* RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Hi, Peter.
>
>
>
> Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look
> like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
>
>
>
> Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love
> to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the
> background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions
> etc.
>
>
>
> Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for
> instance. Feel free to pick a day.
>
>
>
> Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
>
>
>
> -- Eirik
>
> (Now on US east coast time.)
>
>
>
> *From:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Dear Eirik & All
>
> Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk ,
> Mobile : 96554595)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <
> dev@netbeans.apache.org>
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Dear all
>
> Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk ,
> Mobile : 96554595)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
> *To:* dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> *Subject:* RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of
> pros and cons.
>
> Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I
> have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans
> Platform app.
>
> Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing
> process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for
> you? My company could pay for a license.
>
> Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone
> wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate
> from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an
> Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
>
> -- Eirik
> [1]
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My
> argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited
> for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful,
> configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the
> overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's
> easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for
> why).
>
> This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about
> different things.
>
> Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have
> one, but ...)
>
> They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the
> folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark
> theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or
> just the warning to match other things in the theme.
>
> Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as
> much as in icon loading.
>
> The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour
> (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in
> multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a
> template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre
> graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first,
> then apply to each shape.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
Great--I sent a Zoom invite to you and Venus.
Anyone else who'd like to join, just let me know, and I'll send you the invite.
-- Eirik
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 10:25 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik
Thanks for your time, how about HKT sat 9am please?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 11:20 PM
To: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Saturday morning HK time is fine with me! If you pick a time I can send an invite.
(Apologies to those in other time zones who were interested in joining--it's always night in one of Europe, US East Coast, or Hong Kong. I'll send out a summary of the meeting afterwards like the previous time.)
Thanks again!
-- Eirik
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 8:37 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi
Can we do sat morning?
Thanks
Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited)
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
寄件日期: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 8:30:43 PM
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
副本: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Excellent work, Venus and Peter! Looks great! I can help review and adjust a few pixel alignment issues, but this work will definitively be usable.
I could do another Zoom chat most days 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. (I'm on US east coast time now.)
-- Eirik
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 4:19 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hey Eirik and All
Please check the attachment. Is the designs good? Sorry i was so busy. Have a sync up meeting?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:48 AM
To: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
In case it is helpful, I made a quick screencast video showing the icon drawing process I used in the past, in Adobe Illustrator:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/667860571
-- Eirik
From: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:35 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Cc: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
No worries, thanks for the update!
Le mer. 19 janv. 2022 à 14:35, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> a écrit :
Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
(When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes faster after a few icons!)
There is also a style guide at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
-- Eirik
From: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear All,
I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned, please give me more time.
Best Regards,
Venus
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
寄件日期: 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
副本: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
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RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
Saturday morning HK time is fine with me! If you pick a time I can send an invite.
(Apologies to those in other time zones who were interested in joining--it's always night in one of Europe, US East Coast, or Hong Kong. I'll send out a summary of the meeting afterwards like the previous time.)
Thanks again!
-- Eirik
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 8:37 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi
Can we do sat morning?
Thanks
Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited)
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
寄件日期: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 8:30:43 PM
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
副本: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Excellent work, Venus and Peter! Looks great! I can help review and adjust a few pixel alignment issues, but this work will definitively be usable.
I could do another Zoom chat most days 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. (I'm on US east coast time now.)
-- Eirik
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 4:19 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hey Eirik and All
Please check the attachment. Is the designs good? Sorry i was so busy. Have a sync up meeting?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:48 AM
To: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
In case it is helpful, I made a quick screencast video showing the icon drawing process I used in the past, in Adobe Illustrator:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/667860571
-- Eirik
From: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:35 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Cc: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
No worries, thanks for the update!
Le mer. 19 janv. 2022 à 14:35, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> a écrit :
Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
(When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes faster after a few icons!)
There is also a style guide at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
-- Eirik
From: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear All,
I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned, please give me more time.
Best Regards,
Venus
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
寄件日期: 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
副本: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
Excellent work, Venus and Peter! Looks great! I can help review and adjust a few pixel alignment issues, but this work will definitively be usable.
I could do another Zoom chat most days 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. (I'm on US east coast time now.)
-- Eirik
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 4:19 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hey Eirik and All
Please check the attachment. Is the designs good? Sorry i was so busy. Have a sync up meeting?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:48 AM
To: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Cc: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
In case it is helpful, I made a quick screencast video showing the icon drawing process I used in the past, in Adobe Illustrator:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/667860571
-- Eirik
From: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:35 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Cc: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
No worries, thanks for the update!
Le mer. 19 janv. 2022 à 14:35, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> a écrit :
Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
(When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes faster after a few icons!)
There is also a style guide at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
-- Eirik
From: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear All,
I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned, please give me more time.
Best Regards,
Venus
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
寄件日期: 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
副本: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
In case it is helpful, I made a quick screencast video showing the icon drawing process I used in the past, in Adobe Illustrator:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/667860571
-- Eirik
From: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:35 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Cc: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; Apache NetBeans <de...@netbeans.apache.org>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
No worries, thanks for the update!
Le mer. 19 janv. 2022 à 14:35, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> a écrit :
Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
(When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes faster after a few icons!)
There is also a style guide at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
-- Eirik
From: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear All,
I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned, please give me more time.
Best Regards,
Venus
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
寄件日期: 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
副本: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>; dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>.
No worries, thanks for the update!
Le mer. 19 janv. 2022 à 14:35, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> a écrit :
> Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to
> answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
>
>
>
> (When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the
> right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes
> faster after a few icons!)
>
>
>
> There is also a style guide at
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
>
>
>
> -- Eirik
>
>
>
> *From:* Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>;
> dev@netbeans.apache.org
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned,
> please give me more time.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Venus
> ------------------------------
>
> *寄件者**:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
> *寄件日期**:* 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
> *收件者**:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <
> dev@netbeans.apache.org>
> *副本**:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
> *主旨**:* RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Hi, Peter.
>
>
>
> Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look
> like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
>
>
>
> Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love
> to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the
> background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions
> etc.
>
>
>
> Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for
> instance. Feel free to pick a day.
>
>
>
> Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
>
>
>
> -- Eirik
>
> (Now on US east coast time.)
>
>
>
> *From:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Dear Eirik & All
>
> Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk ,
> Mobile : 96554595)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
> *To:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <
> dev@netbeans.apache.org>
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> Dear all
>
> Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk ,
> Mobile : 96554595)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
> *To:* dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
> *Cc:* Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> *Subject:* RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
>
>
> I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of
> pros and cons.
>
> Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I
> have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans
> Platform app.
>
> Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing
> process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for
> you? My company could pay for a license.
>
> Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone
> wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate
> from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an
> Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
>
> -- Eirik
> [1]
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <
> mcheung63@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
> Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My
> argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited
> for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful,
> configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the
> overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's
> easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for
> why).
>
> This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about
> different things.
>
> Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have
> one, but ...)
>
> They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the
> folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark
> theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or
> just the warning to match other things in the theme.
>
> Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as
> much as in icon loading.
>
> The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour
> (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in
> multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a
> template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre
> graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first,
> then apply to each shape.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
Sorry about that--thank you for your help with this project! Happy to answer any questions, or to do a screen sharing session.
(When I was drawing icons myself, it took me many hours to figure out the right tools to use in Illustrator to get the right result. But it goes faster after a few icons!)
There is also a style guide at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2617 .
-- Eirik
From: Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:34 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: 回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear All,
I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned, please give me more time.
Best Regards,
Venus
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
寄件日期: 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
副本: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
回覆: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>.
Dear All,
I made a mistake,I designed the wrong icon, it needs to be redesigned, please give me more time.
Best Regards,
Venus
________________________________
寄件者: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
寄件日期: 2022年1月18日 下午 11:11
收件者: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
副本: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Venus Chung <ve...@quantr.hk>
主旨: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
Hi, Peter.
Thank you so much for these efforts!! Could we see what the icons look like without Pixel Preview enabled? (View->Pixel Preview in Illustrator)
Might you also send the latest version of the Illustrator file? I'd love to have a look at grid alignments, and see the new icons against the background layer with the old bitmap icons, and at different resolutions etc.
Happy to meet next week. I could do anytime 8am-11am Hong Kong time, for instance. Feel free to pick a day.
Thanks again very much to Venus and you!
-- Eirik
(Now on US east coast time.)
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:45 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>.
Dear Eirik & All
Let's have a wrap-up meeting next week?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:36 AM
To: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>; dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
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RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>.
Loop in Miss Venus, she is our designer
From: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:58 PM
To: Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Hi Peter,
You have done an amazing job.
Only, I want to know if the icons are pixelized or not.
King regards
Le mar. 18 janv. 2022 à 04:36, Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>> a écrit :
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org> <de...@netbeans.apache.org>>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org<ma...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>.
Dear all
Please see the last three rows, is the style matched?
Thanks
From Peter (System Architect, Quantr Limited https://www.quantr.hk , Mobile : 96554595)
________________________________
From: Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 1:17 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 17:17, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
It's a deal breaker in the sense of I wouldn't have a clue where to
start with it! :-) Anyway, it's not something I could put time into
right now with other NetBeans commitments, nor am I the right person
to be designing icons. Writing code to make use of and expose the
style information, integrate with LaF, etc. is something I'm very up
for getting my hands dirty on, though, if it gets in there.
Best wishes,
Neil
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RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
I think I understand your goal, and this thread now has a good summary of pros and cons.
Again, this is really up to whoever does the icon drawing work. Myself, I have just contributed the icons that happened to be used in my NetBeans Platform app.
Would you be interested in participating in the actual icon drawing process, by the way? Or is the use of Adobe Illustrator a deal-breaker for you? My company could pay for a license.
Alternatively we could try to work out an Inkscape process, if someone wants to commit to drawing a significant number of icons in it (separate from the ones Peter Cheung is working on). Although the lack of an Artboards feature in Inkscape could be a problem.
-- Eirik
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:18 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel, while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape (I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 at 15:48, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
This is where I somewhat disagree, although I think we're talking
about different things.
Take 3 different icons - folder, warning, and lightbulb (not sure we
have one, but ...)
They might all be the same shade of yellow. However, maybe you want
the folder icons to take on the accent colour of a look and feel,
while a dark theme might want to make the shades of the other two a
darker yellow, or just the warning to match other things in the theme.
Maybe we want to edit the icon files later - this could apply there as
much as in icon loading.
The point was that to have the icons encode the context of a fill
colour (eg. CSS class), as well as the colour itself, is potentially
useful in multiple ways. And as far as I'm aware, easier to define
upfront in a template for all icons, than later. At least in Inkscape
(I'm a libre graphics person! :-)) I would set up the common
stylesheet / palette first, then apply to each shape.
Best wishes,
Neil
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RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> Yes, I realise it's some work to set up the styles. But it'll be a lot smaller amount of work to consider now than later. And I don't see much of a maintenance issue. It was only a request to consider it in the discussions.
Noted! I think this really becomes up to whoever decides to continue work on drawing the icons. Right now we have Peter Cheung working on a first batch, delegating to his graphic designers, who are experienced with Adobe Illustrator. Perhaps let's see where that goes first.
> This has nothing to do with single accent colours, changing the default palette or platform applications
(from https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/3445 :)
> at no point have I suggested switching to duotone icons in order to integrate with this change
Sorry, to clarify: The point about the color palette was my own. My argument is that the existing NetBeans icon style is not very well-suited for assigning logical colors. In order to designate a meaningful, configurable, "accent color", for example, we would have to change the overall color palette of the entire icon set. And that's something that's easier to do after-the-fact than up-front (see my earlier explanation for why).
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:06 AM
To: dev <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, 14:57 Eirik Bakke, <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > Relying on colour filtering of the rasterized icons for eg. dark
> > themes
> makes no sense when we can style the SVG data before rasterization
> with semantic information intact.
>
> The motivation is just that it's less work. Even things like picking
> names for the color classes is work. And then we're stuck with
> maintaining and supporting those classes, like maintaining an API.
>
Yes, I realise it's some work to set up the styles. But it'll be a lot smaller amount of work to consider now than later. And I don't see much of a maintenance issue. It was only a request to consider it in the discussions. But if they're added, I'm happy to look at the loading code support.
Best wishes,
Neil
Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, 14:57 Eirik Bakke, <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > Relying on colour filtering of the rasterized icons for eg. dark themes
> makes no sense when we can style the SVG data before rasterization with
> semantic information intact.
>
> The motivation is just that it's less work. Even things like picking names
> for the color classes is work. And then we're stuck with maintaining and
> supporting those classes, like maintaining an API.
>
Yes, I realise it's some work to set up the styles. But it'll be a lot
smaller amount of work to consider now than later. And I don't see much of
a maintenance issue. It was only a request to consider it in the
discussions. But if they're added, I'm happy to look at the loading code
support.
Best wishes,
Neil
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> Relying on colour filtering of the rasterized icons for eg. dark themes makes no sense when we can style the SVG data before rasterization with semantic information intact.
The motivation is just that it's less work. Even things like picking names for the color classes is work. And then we're stuck with maintaining and supporting those classes, like maintaining an API.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 3:52 PM
To: dev <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, 14:22 Eirik Bakke, <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > What I mean is I assume you want a limited consistent set of colours
> (pallette) across all icons?
>
> The existing bitmap icons already have a good color scheme that does
> this (designed by Leos Tronicek [1]). But it doesn't lend itself well
> to the concept of a single "accent" color that can be changed
> arbitrarily, since the icons are colorful rather than monotone or
> duetone. Personally, I think that's fine, and a good contrast to the IntelliJ style.
>
I think you're missing my point. This has nothing to do with single accent colours, changing the default palette or platform applications.
I'm asking to try and have semantic classes for all colourings in the SVGs.
Relying on colour filtering of the rasterized icons for eg. dark themes makes no sense when we can style the SVG data before rasterization with semantic information intact. After rasterization nothing tells you why a particular part of the icon is red or yellow. We can then style icons far more easily from a central point.
I always wanted to switch to logical icons managed in a central way, along the lines of the xdg spec, but at least having one place to alter the palette is an improvement.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, 14:22 Eirik Bakke, <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > What I mean is I assume you want a limited consistent set of colours
> (pallette) across all icons?
>
> The existing bitmap icons already have a good color scheme that does this
> (designed by Leos Tronicek [1]). But it doesn't lend itself well to the
> concept of a single "accent" color that can be changed arbitrarily, since
> the icons are colorful rather than monotone or duetone. Personally, I think
> that's fine, and a good contrast to the IntelliJ style.
>
I think you're missing my point. This has nothing to do with single accent
colours, changing the default palette or platform applications.
I'm asking to try and have semantic classes for all colourings in the SVGs.
Relying on colour filtering of the rasterized icons for eg. dark themes
makes no sense when we can style the SVG data before rasterization with
semantic information intact. After rasterization nothing tells you why a
particular part of the icon is red or yellow. We can then style icons far
more easily from a central point.
I always wanted to switch to logical icons managed in a central way, along
the lines of the xdg spec, but at least having one place to alter the
palette is an improvement.
Best wishes,
Neil
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> What I mean is I assume you want a limited consistent set of colours (pallette) across all icons?
The existing bitmap icons already have a good color scheme that does this (designed by Leos Tronicek [1]). But it doesn't lend itself well to the concept of a single "accent" color that can be changed arbitrarily, since the icons are colorful rather than monotone or duetone. Personally, I think that's fine, and a good contrast to the IntelliJ style.
But I understand that others might prefer a different aesthetic. The choice to keep the existing style is mostly a pragmatic one. If you're thinking of changing the color scheme, e.g. for use in a NetBeans Platform app like PraxisLIVE, another alternative would be to change the colors from Illustrator and regenerate the SVGs for your own use. (I can document the process.) I know a lot of programmers don't like Adobe Illustrator, but it does have the advantage of showing all the icons side-by-side, in named artboards, which is extremely helpful when you're trying to make many different icons look consistent.
Perhaps let's see how Peter Cheung and his designers fare with their first batch of icons. They were continuing where Pete Whelpton and I left off, and might have opinions on the workflow.
-- Eirik
[1] See Geertjan's history in the old email thread "NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?"
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 6:33 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 14:49, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> That's true for the old bitmap icons, but the new SVG icons are drawn without shadows, specular highlights/gradients, and bevel borders. This should avoid the depth inversion problem.
Yes, they're certainly better, but I'm not sure they entirely remove the problems.
> To understand--what do you mean by accent and logical colors here, in terms of the existing NetBeans icons? Could you take a look at the following screenshot (left side), which shows the most commonly seen NetBeans icons, and say what the "accent" color would be, and give some examples of what you mean by "logical" colors?
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210
> 604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
>
> (I know there are other icon styles where the icons are mostly
> grayscale + single accept color, like in IntelliJ. But the NetBeans
> icons have a multi-color style. And I think this is actually a nice
> point of differentiation for NetBeans.)
Yes, sorry, not particularly well described maybe. I'm not talking about the single accent colour approach like that, even if personally I'd prefer it over the multi-colour style. Quite understand you want to keep that, although with this suggestion we could even support both.
What I mean is I assume you want a limited consistent set of colours
(pallette) across all icons? But there are also different reasons for the colours, and I guess I'd add natural to accent and logical. And maybe accent should be theme or laf?
eg.
red (logical) - stop / error / close
yellow (logical) - warning
yellow (accent / theme) folders / arrows grey (accent / theme) area select
blue / green (natural) - world icon
grey (natural) - wastebasket
If the SVG files add CSS style classes for the various distinct uses, as well as the default fill colour, we have the option to support override via LAF provided stylesheets at icon loading later?
So, folders and arrows could follow LAF colouring, and other colours could be adjusted to work better with dark themes, all without having to change the icons themselves.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 14:49, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> That's true for the old bitmap icons, but the new SVG icons are drawn without shadows, specular highlights/gradients, and bevel borders. This should avoid the depth inversion problem.
Yes, they're certainly better, but I'm not sure they entirely remove
the problems.
> To understand--what do you mean by accent and logical colors here, in terms of the existing NetBeans icons? Could you take a look at the following screenshot (left side), which shows the most commonly seen NetBeans icons, and say what the "accent" color would be, and give some examples of what you mean by "logical" colors?
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
>
> (I know there are other icon styles where the icons are mostly grayscale + single accept color, like in IntelliJ. But the NetBeans icons have a multi-color style. And I think this is actually a nice point of differentiation for NetBeans.)
Yes, sorry, not particularly well described maybe. I'm not talking
about the single accent colour approach like that, even if personally
I'd prefer it over the multi-colour style. Quite understand you want
to keep that, although with this suggestion we could even support
both.
What I mean is I assume you want a limited consistent set of colours
(pallette) across all icons? But there are also different reasons for
the colours, and I guess I'd add natural to accent and logical. And
maybe accent should be theme or laf?
eg.
red (logical) - stop / error / close
yellow (logical) - warning
yellow (accent / theme) folders / arrows
grey (accent / theme) area select
blue / green (natural) - world icon
grey (natural) - wastebasket
If the SVG files add CSS style classes for the various distinct uses,
as well as the default fill colour, we have the option to support
override via LAF provided stylesheets at icon loading later?
So, folders and arrows could follow LAF colouring, and other colours
could be adjusted to work better with dark themes, all without having
to change the icons themselves.
Best wishes,
Neil
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RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> Your linked image looks somewhat better than the dark metal implementation, but value invert is hit and miss - eg. it inverts depth perception.
That's true for the old bitmap icons, but the new SVG icons are drawn without shadows, specular highlights/gradients, and bevel borders. This should avoid the depth inversion problem.
> Catch 22! I'll put work into implementing this as soon as we have icons that support it.
> But the icons already have accent and logical colours. It's whether we choose to expose them.
To understand--what do you mean by accent and logical colors here, in terms of the existing NetBeans icons? Could you take a look at the following screenshot (left side), which shows the most commonly seen NetBeans icons, and say what the "accent" color would be, and give some examples of what you mean by "logical" colors?
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/13026411/13026411_210604+Icons+Overview+Cropped.png
(I know there are other icon styles where the icons are mostly grayscale + single accept color, like in IntelliJ. But the NetBeans icons have a multi-color style. And I think this is actually a nice point of differentiation for NetBeans.)
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 2:09 PM
To: dev <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Cc: Arafat BOUCHAFRA <ar...@gmail.com>; Peter Cheung <mc...@hotmail.com>; Peter Cheung <pe...@quantr.hk>
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022, 12:05 Eirik Bakke, <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > Yes, I know, it's horrible!
>
> I thought it looked quite nice :-)
>
Your linked image looks somewhat better than the dark metal implementation, but value invert is hit and miss - eg. it inverts depth perception.
>
>
> My general point is that redrawing the icons is a massive task--there
> are thousands of unique icons in NetBeans,
Yes, I know, hence suggesting ensuring a standardised colour palette that has potential to style from one place. It's a little extra work at the beginning that should simplify the massive task a bit?
There's also the YAGNI principle--don't pre-architect for functionality we
> won't yet implement.
>
Catch 22! I'll put work into implementing this as soon as we have icons that support it.
> I also happen to think that the existing icon color scheme is actually
> a good one, and that animations should be avoided. Accent colors are a
> good idea,
>
I agree on existing palette and animations. But the icons already have accent and logical colours. It's whether we choose to expose them.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022, 12:05 Eirik Bakke, <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> > Yes, I know, it's horrible!
>
> I thought it looked quite nice :-)
>
Your linked image looks somewhat better than the dark metal implementation,
but value invert is hit and miss - eg. it inverts depth perception.
>
>
> My general point is that redrawing the icons is a massive task--there are
> thousands of unique icons in NetBeans,
Yes, I know, hence suggesting ensuring a standardised colour palette that
has potential to style from one place. It's a little extra work at the
beginning that should simplify the massive task a bit?
There's also the YAGNI principle--don't pre-architect for functionality we
> won't yet implement.
>
Catch 22! I'll put work into implementing this as soon as we have icons
that support it.
> I also happen to think that the existing icon color scheme is actually a
> good one, and that animations should be avoided. Accent colors are a good
> idea,
>
I agree on existing palette and animations. But the icons already have
accent and logical colours. It's whether we choose to expose them.
Best wishes,
Neil
RE: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> Yes, I know, it's horrible!
I thought it looked quite nice :-)
My general point is that redrawing the icons is a massive task--there are thousands of unique icons in NetBeans, and many hundreds that are seen frequently. We really need to keep the process as simple as possible, to have a chance to get it done. The main goal here--for my own work at least--is to make NetBeans look good on Retina displays (all MacBooks) and other HiDPI displays (on both Windows and Linux).
> It's probably less work to consider this now than retrofit them all later?
No, I think retrofitting is actually easier--it could be done in one big batch operation. It would have to be part of a general effort to change the color scheme, which requires seeing all the ready-drawn icons side-by-side. There's also the YAGNI principle--don't pre-architect for functionality we won't yet implement.
I also happen to think that the existing icon color scheme is actually a good one, and that animations should be avoided. Accent colors are a good idea, but can be limited to other parts of the LAF, such as selection highlights.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 12:38 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 11:29, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> For Dark Mode, one can apply a color filter that inverts the brightness without changing the hues.
Yes, I know, it's horrible!
> Other color scheme changes would probably be best to do once a substantial number of icons have been vectorized.
I wasn't suggesting otherwise, just asking to consider future proofing the SVGs now with CSS classes (or other mechanism) so this can more easily be done later. It's probably less work to consider this now than retrofit them all later?
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: New theme for netbeans, team member wanted
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 at 11:29, Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com> wrote:
> For Dark Mode, one can apply a color filter that inverts the brightness without changing the hues.
Yes, I know, it's horrible!
> Other color scheme changes would probably be best to do once a substantial number of icons have been vectorized.
I wasn't suggesting otherwise, just asking to consider future proofing
the SVGs now with CSS classes (or other mechanism) so this can more
easily be done later. It's probably less work to consider this now
than retrofit them all later?
Best wishes,
Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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