Flink on Wikipedia

["Matthias J. Sax" <mj...@informatik.hu-berlin.de>]

Hi squirrels,

I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink

The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.


-Matthias

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

["Matthias J. Sax" <mj...@informatik.hu-berlin.de>]

Well. It is not "my" article. It is on Wikipedia. Anyone can (and
should) improve it!

On 07/07/2015 05:08 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
> It was just a suggestion.
> 
> @Matthias: You wrote the article, you decide. If you want to keep it,
> that's fine!
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> 
>> I agree with Kostas and don't see much danger that people get confused.
>> Nevertheless, I will update the history section accordingly.
>>
>>
>> On 07/07/2015 04:48 PM, Kostas Tzoumas wrote:
>>> I think it is clear to most people that the only official and (hopefully)
>>> up-to-date description of an Apache project is its Apache website, and
>> any
>>> paper can get outdated. Perhaps we can change the link to a more
>> up-to-date
>>> paper when we have one.
>>>
>>> I like the article, thanks Matthias!
>>>
>>> Kostas
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay, I wrote a lot there
>>>>
>>>> tl:dr = Let's make sure people understand that the Stratosphere paper
>> does
>>>> not describe Flink.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I can't follow. Stratosphere is only mentioned in the "History" part.
>> Of
>>>>> course, we can strike out "Stratosphere II" and make clear that Flink
>> is
>>>>> a fork on Stratosphere. But that is minor.
>>>>>
>>>>> And adding the Stratosphere papers as a reference, was the requirement
>>>>> to get the article accepted in the first place. Thus, it would not make
>>>>> sense to remove them. Currently, there are no other "reliable and
>>>>> notable" source (in term of Wikipedia guidelines) that can be used as
>>>>> references.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, the article is super short and needs to be extended. But the
>>>>> project is moving fast and only "stable" stuff should be on Wikipedia.
>>>>> It is hard enough to keep the project web page up to data. ;) Maybe, we
>>>>> can discuss what should be included and what not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/07/2015 04:17 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere
>>>> project
>>>>>> than Flink right now.
>>>>>> I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and
>>>> when
>>>>>> looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is
>>>> not
>>>>>> just that a name changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project
>>>> that
>>>>>> became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere
>>>> project
>>>>>> (core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
>>>>>> Stratosphere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained
>>>> that
>>>>>> were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
>>>>>> optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that
>>>>> research
>>>>>> project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to
>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier
>> for
>>>>>> people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
>>>>>> A system with so many features and so much different technology is
>>>> bound
>>>>> to
>>>>>> be hard to grasp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink
>> is,
>>>>> but
>>>>>> have little to do with what it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the
>>>>> following:
>>>>>> Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
>>>>>> bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013.
>>>> Ever
>>>>>> since, these two have been proceeding independently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that.
>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>>> we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>> Stephan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <
>>>> henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice work indeed!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Henry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Great! Nice start. :)
>>>>>>>> The logo is shown now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Chiwan Park
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>>>>>>>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi squirrels,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org>]

It was just a suggestion.

@Matthias: You wrote the article, you decide. If you want to keep it,
that's fine!

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

> I agree with Kostas and don't see much danger that people get confused.
> Nevertheless, I will update the history section accordingly.
>
>
> On 07/07/2015 04:48 PM, Kostas Tzoumas wrote:
> > I think it is clear to most people that the only official and (hopefully)
> > up-to-date description of an Apache project is its Apache website, and
> any
> > paper can get outdated. Perhaps we can change the link to a more
> up-to-date
> > paper when we have one.
> >
> > I like the article, thanks Matthias!
> >
> > Kostas
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Okay, I wrote a lot there
> >>
> >> tl:dr = Let's make sure people understand that the Stratosphere paper
> does
> >> not describe Flink.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> >> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I can't follow. Stratosphere is only mentioned in the "History" part.
> Of
> >>> course, we can strike out "Stratosphere II" and make clear that Flink
> is
> >>> a fork on Stratosphere. But that is minor.
> >>>
> >>> And adding the Stratosphere papers as a reference, was the requirement
> >>> to get the article accepted in the first place. Thus, it would not make
> >>> sense to remove them. Currently, there are no other "reliable and
> >>> notable" source (in term of Wikipedia guidelines) that can be used as
> >>> references.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, the article is super short and needs to be extended. But the
> >>> project is moving fast and only "stable" stuff should be on Wikipedia.
> >>> It is hard enough to keep the project web page up to data. ;) Maybe, we
> >>> can discuss what should be included and what not.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Matthias
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 07/07/2015 04:17 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
> >>>> Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.
> >>>>
> >>>> It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere
> >> project
> >>>> than Flink right now.
> >>>> I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and
> >> when
> >>>> looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is
> >> not
> >>>> just that a name changed.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project
> >> that
> >>>> became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere
> >> project
> >>>> (core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
> >>>> Stratosphere.
> >>>>
> >>>> When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained
> >> that
> >>>> were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
> >>>> optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that
> >>> research
> >>>> project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to
> >> that.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier
> for
> >>>> people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
> >>>> A system with so many features and so much different technology is
> >> bound
> >>> to
> >>>> be hard to grasp.
> >>>>
> >>>> The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink
> is,
> >>> but
> >>>> have little to do with what it is.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the
> >>> following:
> >>>> Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
> >>>> bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013.
> >> Ever
> >>>> since, these two have been proceeding independently.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that.
> >> Otherwise,
> >>>> we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.
> >>>>
> >>>> Greetings,
> >>>> Stephan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <
> >> henry.saputra@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Nice work indeed!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Henry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Great! Nice start. :)
> >>>>>> The logo is shown now.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> Chiwan Park
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> >>>>>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi squirrels,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
> >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -Matthias
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

["Matthias J. Sax" <mj...@informatik.hu-berlin.de>]

I agree with Kostas and don't see much danger that people get confused.
Nevertheless, I will update the history section accordingly.


On 07/07/2015 04:48 PM, Kostas Tzoumas wrote:
> I think it is clear to most people that the only official and (hopefully)
> up-to-date description of an Apache project is its Apache website, and any
> paper can get outdated. Perhaps we can change the link to a more up-to-date
> paper when we have one.
> 
> I like the article, thanks Matthias!
> 
> Kostas
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Okay, I wrote a lot there
>>
>> tl:dr = Let's make sure people understand that the Stratosphere paper does
>> not describe Flink.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>
>>> I can't follow. Stratosphere is only mentioned in the "History" part. Of
>>> course, we can strike out "Stratosphere II" and make clear that Flink is
>>> a fork on Stratosphere. But that is minor.
>>>
>>> And adding the Stratosphere papers as a reference, was the requirement
>>> to get the article accepted in the first place. Thus, it would not make
>>> sense to remove them. Currently, there are no other "reliable and
>>> notable" source (in term of Wikipedia guidelines) that can be used as
>>> references.
>>>
>>> Of course, the article is super short and needs to be extended. But the
>>> project is moving fast and only "stable" stuff should be on Wikipedia.
>>> It is hard enough to keep the project web page up to data. ;) Maybe, we
>>> can discuss what should be included and what not.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/07/2015 04:17 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.
>>>>
>>>> It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere
>> project
>>>> than Flink right now.
>>>> I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and
>> when
>>>> looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is
>> not
>>>> just that a name changed.
>>>>
>>>> 2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project
>> that
>>>> became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere
>> project
>>>> (core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
>>>> Stratosphere.
>>>>
>>>> When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained
>> that
>>>> were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
>>>> optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that
>>> research
>>>> project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to
>> that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier for
>>>> people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
>>>> A system with so many features and so much different technology is
>> bound
>>> to
>>>> be hard to grasp.
>>>>
>>>> The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink is,
>>> but
>>>> have little to do with what it is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the
>>> following:
>>>> Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
>>>> bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013.
>> Ever
>>>> since, these two have been proceeding independently.
>>>>
>>>> I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that.
>> Otherwise,
>>>> we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> Stephan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <
>> henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nice work indeed!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Henry
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Great! Nice start. :)
>>>>>> The logo is shown now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Chiwan Park
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>>>>>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi squirrels,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Kostas Tzoumas <kt...@apache.org>]

I think it is clear to most people that the only official and (hopefully)
up-to-date description of an Apache project is its Apache website, and any
paper can get outdated. Perhaps we can change the link to a more up-to-date
paper when we have one.

I like the article, thanks Matthias!

Kostas

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org> wrote:

> Okay, I wrote a lot there
>
> tl:dr = Let's make sure people understand that the Stratosphere paper does
> not describe Flink.
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> > I can't follow. Stratosphere is only mentioned in the "History" part. Of
> > course, we can strike out "Stratosphere II" and make clear that Flink is
> > a fork on Stratosphere. But that is minor.
> >
> > And adding the Stratosphere papers as a reference, was the requirement
> > to get the article accepted in the first place. Thus, it would not make
> > sense to remove them. Currently, there are no other "reliable and
> > notable" source (in term of Wikipedia guidelines) that can be used as
> > references.
> >
> > Of course, the article is super short and needs to be extended. But the
> > project is moving fast and only "stable" stuff should be on Wikipedia.
> > It is hard enough to keep the project web page up to data. ;) Maybe, we
> > can discuss what should be included and what not.
> >
> >
> > -Matthias
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/07/2015 04:17 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
> > > Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.
> > >
> > > It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere
> project
> > > than Flink right now.
> > > I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:
> > >
> > > 1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and
> when
> > > looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is
> not
> > > just that a name changed.
> > >
> > > 2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project
> that
> > > became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere
> project
> > > (core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
> > > Stratosphere.
> > >
> > > When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained
> that
> > > were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
> > > optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.
> > >
> > > 3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that
> > research
> > > project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to
> that.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier for
> > > people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
> > > A system with so many features and so much different technology is
> bound
> > to
> > > be hard to grasp.
> > >
> > > The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink is,
> > but
> > > have little to do with what it is.
> > >
> > >
> > > The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the
> > following:
> > > Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
> > > bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013.
> Ever
> > > since, these two have been proceeding independently.
> > >
> > > I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that.
> Otherwise,
> > > we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Stephan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <
> henry.saputra@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Nice work indeed!
> > >>
> > >> - Henry
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>> Great! Nice start. :)
> > >>> The logo is shown now.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Chiwan Park
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> > >>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi squirrels,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
> > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Matthias
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org>]

Okay, I wrote a lot there

tl:dr = Let's make sure people understand that the Stratosphere paper does
not describe Flink.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

> I can't follow. Stratosphere is only mentioned in the "History" part. Of
> course, we can strike out "Stratosphere II" and make clear that Flink is
> a fork on Stratosphere. But that is minor.
>
> And adding the Stratosphere papers as a reference, was the requirement
> to get the article accepted in the first place. Thus, it would not make
> sense to remove them. Currently, there are no other "reliable and
> notable" source (in term of Wikipedia guidelines) that can be used as
> references.
>
> Of course, the article is super short and needs to be extended. But the
> project is moving fast and only "stable" stuff should be on Wikipedia.
> It is hard enough to keep the project web page up to data. ;) Maybe, we
> can discuss what should be included and what not.
>
>
> -Matthias
>
>
>
> On 07/07/2015 04:17 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
> > Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.
> >
> > It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere project
> > than Flink right now.
> > I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:
> >
> > 1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and when
> > looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is not
> > just that a name changed.
> >
> > 2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project that
> > became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere project
> > (core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
> > Stratosphere.
> >
> > When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained that
> > were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
> > optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.
> >
> > 3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that
> research
> > project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to that.
> >
> >
> > I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier for
> > people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
> > A system with so many features and so much different technology is bound
> to
> > be hard to grasp.
> >
> > The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink is,
> but
> > have little to do with what it is.
> >
> >
> > The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the
> following:
> > Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
> > bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013. Ever
> > since, these two have been proceeding independently.
> >
> > I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that. Otherwise,
> > we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Stephan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Nice work indeed!
> >>
> >> - Henry
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>> Great! Nice start. :)
> >>> The logo is shown now.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Chiwan Park
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> >>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi squirrels,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Matthias
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

["Matthias J. Sax" <mj...@informatik.hu-berlin.de>]

I can't follow. Stratosphere is only mentioned in the "History" part. Of
course, we can strike out "Stratosphere II" and make clear that Flink is
a fork on Stratosphere. But that is minor.

And adding the Stratosphere papers as a reference, was the requirement
to get the article accepted in the first place. Thus, it would not make
sense to remove them. Currently, there are no other "reliable and
notable" source (in term of Wikipedia guidelines) that can be used as
references.

Of course, the article is super short and needs to be extended. But the
project is moving fast and only "stable" stuff should be on Wikipedia.
It is hard enough to keep the project web page up to data. ;) Maybe, we
can discuss what should be included and what not.


-Matthias



On 07/07/2015 04:17 PM, Stephan Ewen wrote:
> Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.
> 
> It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere project
> than Flink right now.
> I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:
> 
> 1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and when
> looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is not
> just that a name changed.
> 
> 2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project that
> became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere project
> (core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
> Stratosphere.
> 
> When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained that
> were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
> optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.
> 
> 3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that research
> project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to that.
> 
> 
> I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier for
> people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
> A system with so many features and so much different technology is bound to
> be hard to grasp.
> 
> The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink is, but
> have little to do with what it is.
> 
> 
> The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the following:
> Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
> bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013. Ever
> since, these two have been proceeding independently.
> 
> I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that. Otherwise,
> we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.
> 
> Greetings,
> Stephan
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Nice work indeed!
>>
>> - Henry
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Great! Nice start. :)
>>> The logo is shown now.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chiwan Park
>>>
>>>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>>>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi squirrels,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
>>>>>
>>>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Matthias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Stephan Ewen <se...@apache.org>]

Thanks, Matthias, for starting this.

It looks a bit like the article talks more about the Stratosphere project
than Flink right now.
I think we need to make a few things clear, to not confuse people:

1) Flink != Stratosphere. When looking at the Stratosphere Paper and when
looking at Flink, you look at two completely different things. It is not
just that a name changed.

2) It is not Stratosphere that became an Apache project. The project that
became Apache Flink was forked from a subset of the Stratosphere project
(core runtime only). That subset covered 1.5 out of the 5 areas of
Stratosphere.

When Flink became an Apache project, the only features it contained that
were developed as part of Stratosphere, were the iterations, and the
optimizer. Everything else had been re-developed.

3) Flink has nothing to do with Stratosphere II. Even though that research
project talks about streaming, they have a very different angle to that.


I am writing this, because we are working heavy on making it easier for
people to grasp what Flink is, and what it is not.
A system with so many features and so much different technology is bound to
be hard to grasp.

The article gives people sources that seemingly describe what Flink is, but
have little to do with what it is.


The relationship between Flink and Stratosphere is actually the following:
Flink is based on some research outcomes of Stratosphere (I), and was
bootstrapped from a fork of the Stratosphere code base of late 2013. Ever
since, these two have been proceeding independently.

I would suggest to change the article to clearly reflect that. Otherwise,
we will not do Flink a favor, but confuse people.

Greetings,
Stephan



On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nice work indeed!
>
> - Henry
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Great! Nice start. :)
> > The logo is shown now.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chiwan Park
> >
> >> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> >> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi squirrels,
> >>>
> >>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
> >>>
> >>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Matthias
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

Nice work indeed!

- Henry

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:25 AM, Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> Great! Nice start. :)
> The logo is shown now.
>
> Regards,
> Chiwan Park
>
>> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
>> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi squirrels,
>>>
>>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
>>>
>>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Matthias
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Chiwan Park <ch...@apache.org>]

Great! Nice start. :)
The logo is shown now.

Regards,
Chiwan Park

> On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
> mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> 
>> Hi squirrels,
>> 
>> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
>> 
>> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
>> 
>> 
>> -Matthias
>> 
>> 

Re: Flink on Wikipedia

[Maximilian Michels <mx...@apache.org>]

Cool. Nice work, Matthias, and thanks for starting it off.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:45 PM, Matthias J. Sax <
mjsax@informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

> Hi squirrels,
>
> I am happy to announce Flink on Wikipedia:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Flink
>
> The Logo Request is still pending, but should be online soon.
>
>
> -Matthias
>
>