You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de> on 2004/03/09 12:23:27 UTC

Doc about important changes

It seems that we need a place where we can put "important changes"
for 2.1.5.

This is currently the renaming of woody to cocoon forms and the
incompatible excalibur-logger change that might cause problems
with existing installations.

Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to
place such things so that they are visible for people downloading
or extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.

Carsten 

Carsten Ziegeler 
Open Source Group, S&N AG
http://www.osoco.net/weblogs/rael/


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>.
On 09.03.2004 14:14, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?

+1 @importance or @impact

> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?

+0

Vadim wrote:

>  * Do you want to add a block="name" attribute on <action> in changes.xml? 

+0.5 I prefer this about the above one.

Reinhard wrote:

> I think high|low|medium should me more meaningful or in other words self-explaining. What about "newFeature", "incompatibleChange", "minorChange"?

-0.5 to special IMO.

Cheche wrote:

> Given that, why do not use the already priority attribue that has been used on <actions>, but instead of the actions elements, move it to the child element <action>?

+0.5 also a good alternative, but @priority give a bit another attitude 
than @impact/@importance.

Hope I did not miss any suggestion :)

Joerg

Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>.
On 09.03.2004 15:27, Juan Jose Pablos wrote:

>> Mmmh... "impact" has the underlying meaning that it will have some 
>> negative effects on some existing applications, which is not the case 
>> for 99% of changes (we are careful about back compatibility).
>>
> I was looking for a name, and I found weight as well as a good choice.
> 
> I have check the weight definition, and I found "Gravity" as another 
> choice.

Please not more abstract than necessary :)

@importance or @impact is a better choice IMO.

Joerg

Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
> Mmmh... "impact" has the underlying meaning that it will have some 
> negative effects on some existing applications, which is not the case 
> for 99% of changes (we are careful about back compatibility).
>
I was looking for a name, and I found weight as well as a good choice.

I have check the weight definition, and I found "Gravity" as another choice.


> Has something be define in Forrest's DTDs in this area?

It is not, but I guess, that if we find a good choice, I am happy to add it.

> 
> Sylvain
> 



Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Juan Jose Pablos wrote:

> Sylvain,
>
> I remember looking on this issue on the forrest list a while ago.
> What about impact instead of importance?


Mmmh... "impact" has the underlying meaning that it will have some 
negative effects on some existing applications, which is not the case 
for 99% of changes (we are careful about back compatibility).

Has something be define in Forrest's DTDs in this area?

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 14:50 Europe/Zurich, Juan Jose Pablos a écrit :
> ...What about impact instead of importance?

I was thinking about it actually, "impact" seems more appropriate. But 
this is not terribly important.

-Bertrand


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Sylvain,

I remember looking on this issue on the forrest list a while ago.
What about impact instead of importance?

Cheers,
Cheche

Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> So let's finally vote on this.
> 
> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?
> 
> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?
> 
> Sylvain
> 



Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
<snip/>
> So let's finally vote on this.
> 
> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?
+1

> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?
+1

/Daniel

Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> It seems that we need a place where we can put "important changes" 
>> for 2.1.5.
>>
>> This is currently the renaming of woody to cocoon forms and the 
>> incompatible excalibur-logger change that might cause problems with 
>> existing installations.
>>
>> Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to 
>> place such things so that they are visible for people downloading or 
>> extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.
>>  
>>
>
> Once again the need arises to categorize changes ;-)
>
> Let's finally introduce this "importance" attribute on <action> 
> elements, that will allow to clearly distinguish changes. It can be 
> used to organize the release notes page (important changes come first) 
> and also to filter the announcement email (only important changes are 
> relevant here).
>
> I also propose that each block has its own status.xml file. The main 
> status.xml will be used for changes to the core, and also change of 
> block status (creation, deprecation, etc).
>
> So let's finally vote on this.
>
> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?


+1

> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?


+1

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?
>>
>>
>> -0, reduces visibility.
>
>
> Having a separate file doesn't mean it doesn't appear on a different 
> page in the docs. Cocoon has some nice features for aggregation ;-)


It is easier to peek into one file, especially if it resides in module 
root ;-) instead of ferreting through all blocks - and I'm thinking 
about developers (including me) here :-)


>> Let's do instead:
>>
>>  * Do you want to add a block="name" attribute on <action> in 
>> changes.xml?
>>
>> +1
>
>
> Good. The important point is to have a per-block classification, even 
> if I personally prefer a per-block file.


Let's do an attribute, please :-)

Vadim


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:

> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>> So let's finally vote on this.
>>
>> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
>> <action> in changes.xml?
>
>
>
> +0.5. How "importance" is defined - what is important and what is not?


Really subjective, I admit. The one that makes the change will initially 
decide for the importance, and this can be later discussed if other 
don't agree, although I don't think this will happen often.

>> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?
>
>
>
> -0, reduces visibility.


Having a separate file doesn't mean it doesn't appear on a different 
page in the docs. Cocoon has some nice features for aggregation ;-)

> Let's do instead:
>
>  * Do you want to add a block="name" attribute on <action> in 
> changes.xml?
>
> +1


Good. The important point is to have a per-block classification, even if 
I personally prefer a per-block file.

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Geoff Howard <co...@leverageweb.com>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:

> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>> So let's finally vote on this.
>>
>> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
>> <action> in changes.xml?
>

+.5

>> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?
>
>
>
> -0, reduces visibility.
>
> Let's do instead:
>
>  * Do you want to add a block="name" attribute on <action> in 
> changes.xml?
>
> +1


+.5 to either, but I like the attribute better.

Geoff

Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> So let's finally vote on this.
>
> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?


+0.5. How "importance" is defined - what is important and what is not?


> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?


-0, reduces visibility.

Let's do instead:

  * Do you want to add a block="name" attribute on <action> in changes.xml?

+1


Vadim


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Tim Larson <ti...@keow.org>.
On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 03:37:11PM +0100, Reinhard P?tz wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> >Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> >>
> >So let's finally vote on this.
> >
> >- do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> ><action> in changes.xml?
> 
> I think high|low|medium should me more meaningful or in other words 
> self-explaining. What about "newFeature", "incompatibleChange", 
> "minorChange"?

This would change "importance" to something like "changeType", right?

+1 with self-explaining names (even if I am not good at choosing them :)

> >- do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?
> 
> As long as we dont have RCB (real Cocoon blocks) I'm in favour of Vadims 
> proposal.

+1 to block attribute

--Tim Larson

Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Reinhard Pötz wrote:

> Sylvain Wallez wrote:


<snip/>

>>
>> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
>> <action> in changes.xml?
>
>
> I think high|low|medium should me more meaningful or in other words 
> self-explaining. What about "newFeature", "incompatibleChange", 
> "minorChange"?


These words are too specific, or indicate a different classification. 
For example, the new forms block is a "newFeature", just as is the 
ability to set the output encoding on JSPReader. But the first one is 
really important (should appear in announcement) whereas the second is not.

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Reinhard Pötz wrote:
> 
> 
> I think high|low|medium should me more meaningful or in other words 
> self-explaining. What about "newFeature", "incompatibleChange", 
> "minorChange"?
> 

Well if the output of that is going to be just more visibility to some 
actions, then this will increase complexity adding poor value.

The idea (at least the one in my head) is that in your can sort/select 
actions base on the "importance" (or impact... or gavity). So you can 
create a status just only for important actions.

Given that, why do not use the already priority attribue that has been 
used on <actions>, but instead of the actions elements, move it to the 
child element <action>?

Cheers,
Cheche


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml

Posted by Reinhard Pötz <re...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> It seems that we need a place where we can put "important changes" 
>> for 2.1.5.
>>
>> This is currently the renaming of woody to cocoon forms and the 
>> incompatible excalibur-logger change that might cause problems with 
>> existing installations.
>>
>> Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to 
>> place such things so that they are visible for people downloading or 
>> extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.
>>  
>>
>
> Once again the need arises to categorize changes ;-)
>
> Let's finally introduce this "importance" attribute on <action> 
> elements, that will allow to clearly distinguish changes. It can be 
> used to organize the release notes page (important changes come first) 
> and also to filter the announcement email (only important changes are 
> relevant here).
>
> I also propose that each block has its own status.xml file. The main 
> status.xml will be used for changes to the core, and also change of 
> block status (creation, deprecation, etc).
>
> So let's finally vote on this.
>
> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?

I think high|low|medium should me more meaningful or in other words 
self-explaining. What about "newFeature", "incompatibleChange", 
"minorChange"?

>
> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?

As long as we dont have RCB (real Cocoon blocks) I'm in favour of Vadims 
proposal.

-- 
Reinhard


Re: [Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml (was: Re: Doc about important changes)

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 14:14 Europe/Zurich, Sylvain Wallez a écrit :

> - do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
> <action> in changes.xml?

+1

> - do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?

+0.5
(trying to be more precise in votes: I'm for it but cannot help ATM)

-Bertrand


[Vote] new "importance" attribute on in status.xml (was: Re: Doc about important changes)

Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

>It seems that we need a place where we can put "important changes" for 2.1.5.
>
>This is currently the renaming of woody to cocoon forms and the incompatible excalibur-logger change that might cause problems with existing installations.
>
>Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to place such things so that they are visible for people downloading or extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.
>  
>

Once again the need arises to categorize changes ;-)

Let's finally introduce this "importance" attribute on <action> 
elements, that will allow to clearly distinguish changes. It can be used 
to organize the release notes page (important changes come first) and 
also to filter the announcement email (only important changes are 
relevant here).

I also propose that each block has its own status.xml file. The main 
status.xml will be used for changes to the core, and also change of 
block status (creation, deprecation, etc).

So let's finally vote on this.

- do you want to add an importance="high|low|medium" attribute on 
<action> in changes.xml?

- do you want each block to have it's own status.xml file?

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }


Re: Doc about important changes

Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
Carsten Ziegeler dijo:
> It seems that we need a place where we can put "important changes"
> for 2.1.5.
>
> This is currently the renaming of woody to cocoon forms and the
> incompatible excalibur-logger change that might cause problems
> with existing installations.
>
> Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to
> place such things so that they are visible for people downloading
> or extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.

What about the RELEASE NOTE?

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo


Re: Doc about important changes

Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

>It seems that we need a place where we can put "important changes"
>for 2.1.5.
>
>This is currently the renaming of woody to cocoon forms and the
>incompatible excalibur-logger change that might cause problems
>with existing installations.
>
>Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to
>place such things so that they are visible for people downloading
>or extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.
>  
>

Why not updating.xml ? It could be reorganized onto several sections, 
i.e. 2.0 -> 2.1, 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5, etc

Vadim



Re: Doc about important changes

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le Mardi, 9 mars 2004, à 12:23 Europe/Zurich, Carsten Ziegeler a écrit :

> ...Apart from putting it on the Wiki has someone a good idea where to
> place such things so that they are visible for people downloading
> or extracting the distribution? Perhaps a "Readme.1st" etc.

How about a WARNING.TXT which points to important release info on the 
web site?

In this case it could point to 
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/changes.html - but it would be good to 
have a way to highlight "important" changes there, dunno if this 
requires changes to the status.xml processing.

-Bertrand