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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com> on 2019/04/04 11:39:52 UTC
NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Dear all,
I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
with every release.
We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2
and actually many of us are actually living on the edge using refreshed
dev versions every now and then without any issue.
So how do you think that having a non versioned user and cache-dir work
out (like: "release" instead of "11.0" or "11.1")?
I'm bringing this up for two + one reasons:
1. The user experience of the upgrades would be more seamless.
2. Avoid code change required to check the previous release folder.
+1 Abandoned older user and cache dirs are just kept floating around.
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Re: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Gaurav Gupta <ga...@gmail.com>.
Plugins with implementation dependencies not gonna work this way.
Thanks
Gaurav Gupta
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:48 PM Junichi Yamamoto <ju...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Laszlo,
>
> The user directory includes plugins. The cache directory has a splash
> screen. So, probably, problems occur if a user uses NetBeans IDEs of
> different versions, I suppose.
>
> Thanks,
> Junichi
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 8:40 PM Laszlo Kishalmi
> <la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
> > with every release.
> >
> > We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2
> > and actually many of us are actually living on the edge using refreshed
> > dev versions every now and then without any issue.
> >
> > So how do you think that having a non versioned user and cache-dir work
> > out (like: "release" instead of "11.0" or "11.1")?
> >
> > I'm bringing this up for two + one reasons:
> >
> > 1. The user experience of the upgrades would be more seamless.
> >
> > 2. Avoid code change required to check the previous release folder.
> >
> > +1 Abandoned older user and cache dirs are just kept floating around.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
Sharing user dir but not cache dir was: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
Dne čtvrtek 4. dubna 2019 14:17:57 CEST, Junichi Yamamoto napsal(a):
> The user directory includes plugins. The cache directory has a splash
> screen. So, probably, problems occur if a user uses NetBeans IDEs of
> different versions, I suppose.
## Problem with Caches
Right. Using two different versions of NetBeans on top of the same cache
directory will effectively disable the caches (or worse, break their
behavior).
## Backward Compatibility
Reusing user directory in newer version directly was always my dream, but we
never got it working properly - hence the QA required the "import of previous
version" behavior to import only what is explicitly requested and tested.
Sharing the user directory is technically possible. Future versions of the
code just have to be able to read older settings. That is achievable if good
coding practices are obeyed.
## Future Compatibility
However using the same directory by older versions is even more tricky. That
requires proper versioning and/or extensible settings format and not many
developers really think about that. Consider reading more in my [notes about
protocols](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Protocols) and related articles.
## Non Fixable Bug Reports
The problem with sharing the user directory is that we will get bug reports
that aren't reproducible without the actual user directory. E.g. there'll be
bugs nobody will be able to fix. We have been in such situation in the past -
when the upgrade was automatic, a lot of debris got into the new version and
the new code was not really to deal with it.
## Conclusion
If you want to share the user dir, you can. It will work to some extent.
In any case, don't share the cache directory between different versions.
Luckily there is a way to place caches elsewhere than under the user
directory...
Best regards and good luck.
-jt
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Re: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Junichi Yamamoto <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi Laszlo,
The user directory includes plugins. The cache directory has a splash
screen. So, probably, problems occur if a user uses NetBeans IDEs of
different versions, I suppose.
Thanks,
Junichi
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 8:40 PM Laszlo Kishalmi
<la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
> with every release.
>
> We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2
> and actually many of us are actually living on the edge using refreshed
> dev versions every now and then without any issue.
>
> So how do you think that having a non versioned user and cache-dir work
> out (like: "release" instead of "11.0" or "11.1")?
>
> I'm bringing this up for two + one reasons:
>
> 1. The user experience of the upgrades would be more seamless.
>
> 2. Avoid code change required to check the previous release folder.
>
> +1 Abandoned older user and cache dirs are just kept floating around.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
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AW: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Hey Laszlo,
I’m in between. I’m for it, do to removing old stuff automatically and getting the preferences from previous Version. But also I often read that someone says: please delete your user dir, if someone encountered a problem. So there we can see smth is not that stable as expected and needs further Investigation somehow.
On the other hand I would not use the old preferences automatically or as default, due to mentioned problems. When I install a newer version of IntelliJ they ask me, whether I want to uninstall the old version with the old settings or not. So after it, it seems, that the old settings are the default.
So all in all, but with asking to use the old ones or not and not make it as default.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. April 2019 13:40
An: Apache NetBeans
Betreff: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Dear all,
I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
with every release.
We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2
and actually many of us are actually living on the edge using refreshed
dev versions every now and then without any issue.
So how do you think that having a non versioned user and cache-dir work
out (like: "release" instead of "11.0" or "11.1")?
I'm bringing this up for two + one reasons:
1. The user experience of the upgrades would be more seamless.
2. Avoid code change required to check the previous release folder.
+1 Abandoned older user and cache dirs are just kept floating around.
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Re: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Well it seems version dirs are here to stay.
I'd try to get the version updater be smart enough to figure out the
previous installed version, so we do not have to change that in every
release.
It could be also possible to add a task which checks the previous
user/cache dirs and offer them for removal if they are not being used
for a month or so.
On 4/4/19 12:48 PM, Tim Boudreau wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 7:40 AM Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
>> with every release.
>>
>> We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2
>
> That's great, but only until somebody breaks something, which you typically
> don't know until a lot of users have had a bad experience.
>
> Keeping the cache dir seems reasonable - the developer should be expected
> to change subdir names if the data format is changed incompatibly.
>
> But for the userdir, if a new version has written incompatible data, you've
> closed off any way to downgrade to the previous version. That's not okay.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>> e dirs are just kept floating around.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> http://timboudreau.com
>
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Re: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Tim Boudreau <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 7:40 AM Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
> with every release.
>
> We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2
That's great, but only until somebody breaks something, which you typically
don't know until a lot of users have had a bad experience.
Keeping the cache dir seems reasonable - the developer should be expected
to change subdir names if the data format is changed incompatibly.
But for the userdir, if a new version has written incompatible data, you've
closed off any way to downgrade to the previous version. That's not okay.
-Tim
> e dirs are just kept floating around.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> --
http://timboudreau.com
Re: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases
Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com.INVALID>.
On 4/4/19 6:39 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir
> with every release.
> I'm bringing this up for two + one reasons:
>
> 1. The user experience of the upgrades would be more seamless.
>
> 2. Avoid code change required to check the previous release folder.
>
> +1 Abandoned older user and cache dirs are just kept floating around.
3. Multiple cache dirs == multiple Maven indexes:
2.0G /home/cenbe/.cache/netbeans/11.0/mavenindex
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
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