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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Steve Poole <sp...@googlemail.com> on 2008/10/01 10:53:32 UTC
[Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
A couple of weeks ago I posted the existence of a draft proposal for a
new project.
(For those of you who missed it it's here ->
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/KatoProposal)
I've only had one comment so far, so I'm assuming that either I'm
missing something, the proposal is not clear, or (most likely) its not
greatly interesting :-)
Anyone like to give a novice a helping hand and explain what it is I
need to do to stimulate some discussion?
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Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Steve Poole <sp...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I posted the existence of a draft proposal for a new
> project.
> (For those of you who missed it it's here ->
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/KatoProposal)
>
> I've only had one comment so far, so I'm assuming that either I'm missing
> something, the proposal is not clear, or (most likely) its not greatly
> interesting :-)
>
> Anyone like to give a novice a helping hand and explain what it is I need
> to do to stimulate some discussion?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Hi Steve, I've added myself as a mentor on the Kato proposal wiki page.
I've also set the "Proposed Apache Sponsor" section on the proposal to be
the Incubator PMC, but as this sounds relevant to Apache Harmony I wondered
if it had been mentioned to them?
...ant
Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Steve Poole <sp...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I posted the existence of a draft proposal for a new
> project.
> (For those of you who missed it it's here ->
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/KatoProposal)
>
> I've only had one comment so far, so I'm assuming that either I'm missing
> something, the proposal is not clear, or (most likely) its not greatly
> interesting :-)
>
> Anyone like to give a novice a helping hand and explain what it is I need
> to do to stimulate some discussion?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
This has been proposed for a few weeks now, there was some additional
generally positive discussion over on jcp-open -
http://apache.markmail.org/message/ok6rtygeptzzx3fu - as discussion here has
died down in a day or two I'd like to start a vote on accepting this
proposal.
...ant
Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Steve Poole wrote:
> William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>> Sonal Goyal wrote:
>>>
>>> 2. Is it necessary for a mentor to be an Apache member or part of the
>>> Incubator PMC? How do I join otherwise ?
>>
>> There might be a disconnect here in the word Mentor. Mentorship here is
>> strictly talking about organizing projects around the ASF development
>> and community model. If you want to help, you would just offer to be
>> one of the initial contributors (and contributor here doesn't have to
>> mean coder - it might be in documentation or design or whatever you have
>> to bring to the table.)
>>
>> Yes, in answer to 2) above, you must be an Incubator PMC member. The only
>> candidates really entertained are either already ASF members, or we have
>> also voted in IPMC members who have served on a project PMC for some time.
>> The idea is that IPMC members are already familiar with how PMCs work at
>> the foundation.
>>
> Thanks Bill. So unfortunately Sonal can not be a mentor for this project.
Well, not unfortunate at all; Sonal can definitely be added to the initial
list of committers/contributors!
Just don't confuse the phrase "Mentoring" as about the code base or the spec.
If you are consultative help, you are contributing just like your other peers.
The ASF is flat; everyone technologically around a project has parity with their
fellow contributors. It's a meritocracy; you contribute, you gain commit access,
and then project committee membership, but you remain one contributor among
your peers. There are no "team leads" or "project leads". Only people doing
things, and people who have stepped back from doing things, at a given time.
So we have no technological "mentors" per say. The "Mentors" are there for one
reason, to help the project get up to speed about the ASF's processes and
meritocracy based development, and graduate the podling as a full-fledged project
(or sub-project). If your ASF "Mentor" offers technical advise, it's no more or
less valid than any other contributor.
Bill
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Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by Steve Poole <sp...@googlemail.com>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Sonal Goyal wrote:
>
>> I am an independent consultant interested in mentoring this project. A
>> few things are not clear to me:
>>
>> 1. The Apache site http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>> states that a working codebase is essential for incubation. How do we
>> start if we are at the specification level ?
>>
>> 2. Is it necessary for a mentor to be an Apache member or part of the
>> Incubator PMC? How do I join otherwise ?
>>
>
> There might be a disconnect here in the word Mentor. Mentorship here is
> strictly talking about organizing projects around the ASF development
> and community model. If you want to help, you would just offer to be
> one of the initial contributors (and contributor here doesn't have to
> mean coder - it might be in documentation or design or whatever you have
> to bring to the table.)
>
> Yes, in answer to 2) above, you must be an Incubator PMC member. The only
> candidates really entertained are either already ASF members, or we have
> also voted in IPMC members who have served on a project PMC for some time.
> The idea is that IPMC members are already familiar with how PMCs work at
> the foundation.
>
>
Thanks Bill. So unfortunately Sonal can not be a mentor for this project.
> And in answer to 1), no there needs to be no codebase before entering the
> incubator. Although if theres no plan to produce any code, but only a
> specification, the http://openwebfoundation.org/ might be a good landing
> place because it's organized similar to the ASF, but is designated to
> foster specifications and not concerned with code.
>
>
Just to be clear IBM is offering to contribute its existing DTFJ code.
So there would be an existing
working codebase for this project to use as a seed.
> Bill
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Sonal Goyal wrote:
>
> I am an independent consultant interested in mentoring this project. A
> few things are not clear to me:
>
> 1. The Apache site http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> states that a working codebase is essential for incubation. How do we
> start if we are at the specification level ?
>
> 2. Is it necessary for a mentor to be an Apache member or part of the
> Incubator PMC? How do I join otherwise ?
There might be a disconnect here in the word Mentor. Mentorship here is
strictly talking about organizing projects around the ASF development
and community model. If you want to help, you would just offer to be
one of the initial contributors (and contributor here doesn't have to
mean coder - it might be in documentation or design or whatever you have
to bring to the table.)
Yes, in answer to 2) above, you must be an Incubator PMC member. The only
candidates really entertained are either already ASF members, or we have
also voted in IPMC members who have served on a project PMC for some time.
The idea is that IPMC members are already familiar with how PMCs work at
the foundation.
And in answer to 1), no there needs to be no codebase before entering the
incubator. Although if theres no plan to produce any code, but only a
specification, the http://openwebfoundation.org/ might be a good landing
place because it's organized similar to the ASF, but is designated to
foster specifications and not concerned with code.
Bill
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Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Sonal,
On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Sonal Goyal wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am an independent consultant interested in mentoring this project.
Great to hear of your interest in this proposed project.
> A few things are not clear to me:
>
> 1. The Apache site http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> states that a working codebase is essential for incubation. How do we
> start if we are at the specification level ?
It's not a hard requirement. Most projects start with a working-but-
not-finished code base. It's been shown that an existing code base
makes it easier to attract a community, but an existing specification
might be sufficient to motivate a community. The response to the
proposal is probably a good indicator as to the level of interest.
So if you know of others, talk it up and have them participate in this
discussion thread.
>
>
> 2. Is it necessary for a mentor to be an Apache member or part of the
> Incubator PMC? How do I join otherwise ?
"Mentor" is an official role in Apache. It's necessary for a Mentor to
be part of the existing Apache community and to have experience with
"The Apache Way".
I assume you're not already an Apache committer. If that's the case,
you can participate as a committer if the Kato project is accepted.
Best regards,
Craig
>
>
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Sonal
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Steve Poole
> <sp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> A couple of weeks ago I posted the existence of a draft proposal
>> for a new
>> project.
>> (For those of you who missed it it's here ->
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/KatoProposal)
>>
>> I've only had one comment so far, so I'm assuming that either I'm
>> missing
>> something, the proposal is not clear, or (most likely) its not
>> greatly
>> interesting :-)
>>
>> Anyone like to give a novice a helping hand and explain what it is
>> I need to
>> do to stimulate some discussion?
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: [Proposal] Kato - mentors needed etc
Posted by Sonal Goyal <so...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I am an independent consultant interested in mentoring this project. A
few things are not clear to me:
1. The Apache site http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
states that a working codebase is essential for incubation. How do we
start if we are at the specification level ?
2. Is it necessary for a mentor to be an Apache member or part of the
Incubator PMC? How do I join otherwise ?
Thanks and Regards,
Sonal
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Steve Poole <sp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I posted the existence of a draft proposal for a new
> project.
> (For those of you who missed it it's here ->
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/KatoProposal)
>
> I've only had one comment so far, so I'm assuming that either I'm missing
> something, the proposal is not clear, or (most likely) its not greatly
> interesting :-)
>
> Anyone like to give a novice a helping hand and explain what it is I need to
> do to stimulate some discussion?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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