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Posted to derby-user@db.apache.org by Jim McNamara <th...@yahoo.com> on 2007/05/28 02:24:30 UTC
license question
hi-
i am studying and asking questions about licensing so when i post my project it will comply if i put it on my personal web site.
i used fatjar with one-jar and fat-jar said it is under the gpl. the way i used derby was to access my derby checkbook database through hibernate (most of the time) or with java.
i am wondering does my program (a checking account program written with java,
apache derby, and hibernate) have to be totally gpl because of fatjar. am i permitted to use derby as it is under a different license? i embedded derby in the fatjar with onejar. i didn't change any source with derby - just use it to store,
retrieve, edit and delete data. so the distribution of derby would be embedded
and of course a data file(s).
i noticed that some lgpl and gpl libraries encourage people to put notices in each
source file. it seems that it might take a long time to go through and change each notice from each file in the source from lgpl to gpl. i am so glad hibernate didnt do that.
my program is finished except for getting this license stuff worked out.
thanks for any help. this is lots to keep track of .
i hope i can finish with licenses soon.
i will be up for a few more hours hoping for a response.
3rdshiftcoder
---------------------------------
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Re: license question
Posted by Damian C <ja...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Mike,
As is often the case I managed to learn more from answering
incorrectly, than from answering!! And to think all these years I
could have been ripping off those generous and capable Apache
folk:-)). The good news is that at least I know I'm not breaching any
license conditions.
-Damian
On 5/28/07, Michael Segel <ms...@segel.com> wrote:
> > Derby is a different license - although it is somewhat similar to
> > LGPL. So you are free to USE the libraries, but not to DERIVE other
> > work from it.
> >
> No!
> This is not correct.
> Derby is licensed under the Apache license.
>
> Its pretty much open. You can do pretty much anything you want, as long as
> you attribute Apache somewhere in your code. (You'd have to see the
> requirements...) But you are free to Derive and re-license the code...
>
> This is why IBM likes Apache's licensing....
>
> In theory, you could create a complete knock-off of Derby called Jimbo's DB
> and as long as you properly attribute Apache/Derby, you're clean.
>
> HTH
>
> -Mike
>
> PS. IANAL, but I spent far too much time with IBM's lawyers. ;-)
>
RE: license question
Posted by Michael Segel <ms...@segel.com>.
Sorry to top post. This may be a little bit more information that you would
want to know...
We've had this discussion before.
The interesting things is the lesson(s) learned from IBM and Sun's
involvement...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean T. Anderson [mailto:jta@bristowhill.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 9:45 PM
> To: Derby Discussion
> Subject: Re: license question
>
> Michael Segel wrote:
> ...
> > Derby is licensed under the Apache license.
> >
> > Its pretty much open. You can do pretty much anything you want, as long
> as
> > you attribute Apache somewhere in your code. (You'd have to see the
> > requirements...) But you are free to Derive and re-license the code...
> >
>
> Mike's answer is on target. For anyone wanting an Apache reference, see
> this:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#WhatDoesItMEAN
>
> -jean
Re: license question
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
Michael Segel wrote:
...
> Derby is licensed under the Apache license.
>
> Its pretty much open. You can do pretty much anything you want, as long as
> you attribute Apache somewhere in your code. (You'd have to see the
> requirements...) But you are free to Derive and re-license the code...
>
Mike's answer is on target. For anyone wanting an Apache reference, see
this:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html#WhatDoesItMEAN
-jean
RE: license question
Posted by Michael Segel <ms...@segel.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Damian C [mailto:jamianb@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 7:44 PM
> To: derby-user@db.apache.org
> Subject: Fwd: license question
>
> Jim,
> This can be tricky. I am not a lawyer - but this is my understanding
> of the situation.
[SNIP]license.
>
> Derby is a different license - although it is somewhat similar to
> LGPL. So you are free to USE the libraries, but not to DERIVE other
> work from it.
>
No!
This is not correct.
Derby is licensed under the Apache license.
Its pretty much open. You can do pretty much anything you want, as long as
you attribute Apache somewhere in your code. (You'd have to see the
requirements...) But you are free to Derive and re-license the code...
This is why IBM likes Apache's licensing....
In theory, you could create a complete knock-off of Derby called Jimbo's DB
and as long as you properly attribute Apache/Derby, you're clean.
HTH
-Mike
PS. IANAL, but I spent far too much time with IBM's lawyers. ;-)
Re: Fwd: license question
Posted by Jim McNamara <th...@yahoo.com>.
Damian and Michael
please see <inline>
Damian C <ja...@gmail.com> wrote: Jim,
This can be tricky. I am not a lawyer - but this is my understanding
of the situation.
I don't know what fatjar is, so I do not know it's licenses. I use
Hibernate and Derby (and plenty of others).
Typically Hibernate (LPGL type licenses) allow you to freely use their
code in your work (including commercial work). However, typically you
should acknowledge their work. This does not need to be in your source
code - but it is typically done in "Help - About" in your application.
Note that Hibernate relies on many other libraries - each with their
own licences - each of which you need to comply. The good news is
that they have similar license to Hibernate itself,so the "Help -
About" is the appropriate place.
<inline>
re: the other libraries included with hibernate - that was a question in my mind that i didnt ask and you just answered it. thanks very much :-)
<end>
The LPGL license is to stop you from taking the Hibernate code, and
calling it "JimBernate" - and perhaps selling it as your own under
some non open source commercial license.
Derby is a different license - although it is somewhat similar to
LGPL. So you are free to USE the libraries, but not to DERIVE other
work from it.
<inline>
i just USE them. that is cool. oh.... i just saw michael segels
post on this thread. it is definitely good to know but there will
be no derby db knock off. thanks Micahel.
<end>
GPL licenses are more "severe" in that you can use the library as long
as your work (your new project) is licensed also under GPL. So I (or
anyone else on the planet) would be able to take your project and make
my own derivation - which in turn (by the terms of the GPL license)
must also be GPL. Hence GPL is "viral".
I don't use any GPL, but I believe that you must essentially publish
your code in some form to comply with the GPL license. Perhaps in
your About-Help you have a URL for a website that holds a zip of the
code or something.
<inline>
that is what i guessed too. <drat>
<end>
Hope this helps ...
-Damian
Damian,
thank you very much. i will keep this with my increasing resources
on licenses and copyright info. i am getting an education on all of
this. it really has helped me.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim McNamara
Date: May 28, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: license question
To: derby-user@db.apache.org
hi-
i am studying and asking questions about licensing so when i post my
project it will comply if i put it on my personal web site.
i used fatjar with one-jar and fat-jar said it is under the gpl. the
way i used derby was to access my derby checkbook database through
hibernate (most of the time) or with java.
i am wondering does my program (a checking account program written with java,
apache derby, and hibernate) have to be totally gpl because of fatjar.
am i permitted to use derby as it is under a different license? i
embedded derby in the fatjar with onejar. i didn't change any source
with derby - just use it to store,
retrieve, edit and delete data. so the distribution of derby would be embedded
and of course a data file(s).
i noticed that some lgpl and gpl libraries encourage people to put
notices in each
source file. it seems that it might take a long time to go through
and change each notice from each file in the source from lgpl to gpl.
i am so glad hibernate didnt do that.
my program is finished except for getting this license stuff worked out.
thanks for any help. this is lots to keep track of .
i hope i can finish with licenses soon.
i will be up for a few more hours hoping for a response.
3rdshiftcoder
________________________________
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Yahoo! FareChase.
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Fwd: license question
Posted by Damian C <ja...@gmail.com>.
Jim,
This can be tricky. I am not a lawyer - but this is my understanding
of the situation.
I don't know what fatjar is, so I do not know it's licenses. I use
Hibernate and Derby (and plenty of others).
Typically Hibernate (LPGL type licenses) allow you to freely use their
code in your work (including commercial work). However, typically you
should acknowledge their work. This does not need to be in your source
code - but it is typically done in "Help - About" in your application.
Note that Hibernate relies on many other libraries - each with their
own licences - each of which you need to comply. The good news is
that they have similar license to Hibernate itself,so the "Help -
About" is the appropriate place.
The LPGL license is to stop you from taking the Hibernate code, and
calling it "JimBernate" - and perhaps selling it as your own under
some non open source commercial license.
Derby is a different license - although it is somewhat similar to
LGPL. So you are free to USE the libraries, but not to DERIVE other
work from it.
GPL licenses are more "severe" in that you can use the library as long
as your work (your new project) is licensed also under GPL. So I (or
anyone else on the planet) would be able to take your project and make
my own derivation - which in turn (by the terms of the GPL license)
must also be GPL. Hence GPL is "viral".
I don't use any GPL, but I believe that you must essentially publish
your code in some form to comply with the GPL license. Perhaps in
your About-Help you have a URL for a website that holds a zip of the
code or something.
Hope this helps ...
-Damian
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim McNamara <th...@yahoo.com>
Date: May 28, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: license question
To: derby-user@db.apache.org
hi-
i am studying and asking questions about licensing so when i post my
project it will comply if i put it on my personal web site.
i used fatjar with one-jar and fat-jar said it is under the gpl. the
way i used derby was to access my derby checkbook database through
hibernate (most of the time) or with java.
i am wondering does my program (a checking account program written with java,
apache derby, and hibernate) have to be totally gpl because of fatjar.
am i permitted to use derby as it is under a different license? i
embedded derby in the fatjar with onejar. i didn't change any source
with derby - just use it to store,
retrieve, edit and delete data. so the distribution of derby would be embedded
and of course a data file(s).
i noticed that some lgpl and gpl libraries encourage people to put
notices in each
source file. it seems that it might take a long time to go through
and change each notice from each file in the source from lgpl to gpl.
i am so glad hibernate didnt do that.
my program is finished except for getting this license stuff worked out.
thanks for any help. this is lots to keep track of .
i hope i can finish with licenses soon.
i will be up for a few more hours hoping for a response.
3rdshiftcoder
________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.