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Posted to dev@pulsar.apache.org by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> on 2024/03/06 14:43:06 UTC
[DISCUSS] Community Meeting Notes Are Missing
Hi -
I see from the last meeting the following agenda:
> 2024/02/29
> Attendees:
> Lari Hotari
> Jonas
> Kevin Lu
> Frank Kelly
> Asaf Mesika
> Chris Bono
> David Jensen
>
> Agenda
> PIP-341: Pluggable client metrics tracker interface
> 1. Should the OTel implementation be included in the PIP, or as a separate follow-up PIP?
> 2. Do we want to maintain compatibility with the existing stats system (ex. the public Producer /Consumer’s getStats() API), or keep the tracker interface completely separate (and deprecate the old system)? The current PIP attempts to maintain full compatibility, but I have detailed some of the challenges/solutions for maintaining compatibility with the old system.
> Here is the draft https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145 <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145>
> Trivy container scan PR (https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063 <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063>)
> Pulsar-manager
> Release notes / Upgrade notes . Making it easier to upgrade to newer Pulsar versions
> Cherry-pick vs cascade branch merge
I do not recall that any of this discussion made it to the mailing list. It looks like decisions are being made in the meeting.
For example:
1. Is there anything in the PIP-341 discussion that could not have been brought to the mailing list in a [DISCUSS] PIP-341 thread?
The only thing I can find on a mailing list is this thread. https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr <https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr>
2, Trivy - I don’t see it brought back: https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:Trivy <https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:Trivy>
3. Pulsar Manager - Nothing brought back to the mailing list: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager <https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager>
4. Cherry pick question came back as this wall of text: https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv <https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv>
I can see how this can look to an outsider like decisions are being made in a non-open manner in a synchronous meeting.
If you wish to continue with this meeting then please publish the agenda in advance to the Mailing List!
Best,
Dave
Re: [DISCUSS] Community Meeting Notes Are Missing
Posted by Lari Hotari <lh...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 16:43, Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> I do not recall that any of this discussion made it to the mailing list. It looks like decisions are being made in the meeting.
Hi Dave,
I apologize for not being able to keep up with everything and for not
including all the details in the meeting minutes. I will pay more
attention to include a brief summary of the discussions in the meeting
minutes moving forward. While I can't guarantee this will happen every
time, I can assure you that no project decisions are made during these
meetings, so there's no need for concern.
I have thoroughly studied the Apache way and strive to adhere to it in
all my activities within the Apache community. Regarding meetings,
I found a good guideline in the blog post "What makes Apache projects
different?"
(https://blogsarchive.apache.org/comdev/entry/what_makes_apache_projects_different).
"Out-of-band discussions (IRC etc.) are summarized on the dev list as
soon as they have an impact on the project, code, or community."
I have been following this principle, and I haven't observed anyone in the
Pulsar project intentionally acting contrary to these principles.
There's always room for interpretation regarding what impacts the project,
code or community and needs to be summarized on the dev list.
Setting rigid rules isn't productive. Apache isn't about hard rules.
Trust and common sense are also important. We should trust each other's
good intentions and rely on everyone doing their best. I hope we can enjoy
working together in the Apache community and appreciate the joy it brings.
> If you wish to continue with this meeting then please publish the agenda in advance to the Mailing List!
I understand that everyone is very busy. Typically, the agenda is empty
when the meeting begins. We could certainly improve this. However, it's
not practical to say that we can't have the meeting if the agenda items
weren't added beforehand.
I'm open to suggestions for improving the Pulsar community meetings. I
hope everyone feels that they are open and welcoming, and that no one is
excluded. I don't believe anyone wants to complicate things
unnecessarily.
Instead of focusing on meeting logistics, I hope we can direct our
energy and focus towards improving Apache Pulsar and our working
methods. For instance, the challenge of having many open PRs is a clear
sign of problems in providing feedback to our contributors who have
invested time in making PRs. As we have discussed in the other thread,
people can feel excluded and left out when their contributions are
ignored. Let's try to address that problem as soon as possible.
-Lari
-Lari
On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 16:43, Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> I see from the last meeting the following agenda:
>
> > 2024/02/29
> > Attendees:
> > Lari Hotari
> > Jonas
> > Kevin Lu
> > Frank Kelly
> > Asaf Mesika
> > Chris Bono
> > David Jensen
> >
> > Agenda
> > PIP-341: Pluggable client metrics tracker interface
> > 1. Should the OTel implementation be included in the PIP, or as a separate follow-up PIP?
> > 2. Do we want to maintain compatibility with the existing stats system (ex. the public Producer /Consumer’s getStats() API), or keep the tracker interface completely separate (and deprecate the old system)? The current PIP attempts to maintain full compatibility, but I have detailed some of the challenges/solutions for maintaining compatibility with the old system.
> > Here is the draft https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145 <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145>
> > Trivy container scan PR (https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063 <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063>)
> > Pulsar-manager
> > Release notes / Upgrade notes . Making it easier to upgrade to newer Pulsar versions
> > Cherry-pick vs cascade branch merge
>
> I do not recall that any of this discussion made it to the mailing list. It looks like decisions are being made in the meeting.
>
> For example:
> 1. Is there anything in the PIP-341 discussion that could not have been brought to the mailing list in a [DISCUSS] PIP-341 thread?
> The only thing I can find on a mailing list is this thread. https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr <https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr>
> 2, Trivy - I don’t see it brought back: https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:Trivy <https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:Trivy>
> 3. Pulsar Manager - Nothing brought back to the mailing list: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager <https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager>
> 4. Cherry pick question came back as this wall of text: https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv <https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv>
>
> I can see how this can look to an outsider like decisions are being made in a non-open manner in a synchronous meeting.
>
> If you wish to continue with this meeting then please publish the agenda in advance to the Mailing List!
>
> Best,
> Dave
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Community Meeting Notes Are Missing
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>.
Lari and Matteo,
True to what both of you to wrote. My point is how this may look to new community members.
Think outside in for a few minutes.
Even if there is no agenda I think a reminder before the meeting and then a summary like what Michael provided, or even a recording would really, really help.
Best,
Dave
> On Mar 6, 2024, at 10:44 AM, Matteo Merli <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> The meeting is being conducted in the same exact way as it was when you
> we’re participating in it.
>
>
> --
> Matteo Merli
> <ma...@gmail.com>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 6:43 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> I see from the last meeting the following agenda:
>>
>>> 2024/02/29
>>> Attendees:
>>> Lari Hotari
>>> Jonas
>>> Kevin Lu
>>> Frank Kelly
>>> Asaf Mesika
>>> Chris Bono
>>> David Jensen
>>>
>>> Agenda
>>> PIP-341: Pluggable client metrics tracker interface
>>> 1. Should the OTel implementation be included in the PIP, or as a
>> separate follow-up PIP?
>>> 2. Do we want to maintain compatibility with the existing stats system
>> (ex. the public Producer /Consumer’s getStats() API), or keep the tracker
>> interface completely separate (and deprecate the old system)? The current
>> PIP attempts to maintain full compatibility, but I have detailed some of
>> the challenges/solutions for maintaining compatibility with the old system.
>>> Here is the draft https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145 <
>> https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145>
>>> Trivy container scan PR (https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063 <
>> https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063>)
>>> Pulsar-manager
>>> Release notes / Upgrade notes . Making it easier to upgrade to newer
>> Pulsar versions
>>> Cherry-pick vs cascade branch merge
>>
>> I do not recall that any of this discussion made it to the mailing list.
>> It looks like decisions are being made in the meeting.
>>
>> For example:
>> 1. Is there anything in the PIP-341 discussion that could not have been
>> brought to the mailing list in a [DISCUSS] PIP-341 thread?
>> The only thing I can find on a mailing list is this thread.
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr <
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr>
>> 2, Trivy - I don’t see it brought back:
>> https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:Trivy
>> <
>> https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:Trivy
>>>
>> 3. Pulsar Manager - Nothing brought back to the mailing list:
>> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager
>> <https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager>
>> <
>> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager
>>>
>> 4. Cherry pick question came back as this wall of text:
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv <
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv>
>>
>> I can see how this can look to an outsider like decisions are being made
>> in a non-open manner in a synchronous meeting.
>>
>> If you wish to continue with this meeting then please publish the agenda
>> in advance to the Mailing List!
>>
>> Best,
>> Dave
>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Community Meeting Notes Are Missing
Posted by Matteo Merli <ma...@gmail.com>.
Hi Dave,
The meeting is being conducted in the same exact way as it was when you
we’re participating in it.
--
Matteo Merli
<ma...@gmail.com>
On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 6:43 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi -
>
> I see from the last meeting the following agenda:
>
> > 2024/02/29
> > Attendees:
> > Lari Hotari
> > Jonas
> > Kevin Lu
> > Frank Kelly
> > Asaf Mesika
> > Chris Bono
> > David Jensen
> >
> > Agenda
> > PIP-341: Pluggable client metrics tracker interface
> > 1. Should the OTel implementation be included in the PIP, or as a
> separate follow-up PIP?
> > 2. Do we want to maintain compatibility with the existing stats system
> (ex. the public Producer /Consumer’s getStats() API), or keep the tracker
> interface completely separate (and deprecate the old system)? The current
> PIP attempts to maintain full compatibility, but I have detailed some of
> the challenges/solutions for maintaining compatibility with the old system.
> > Here is the draft https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145 <
> https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22145>
> > Trivy container scan PR (https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063 <
> https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/22063>)
> > Pulsar-manager
> > Release notes / Upgrade notes . Making it easier to upgrade to newer
> Pulsar versions
> > Cherry-pick vs cascade branch merge
>
> I do not recall that any of this discussion made it to the mailing list.
> It looks like decisions are being made in the meeting.
>
> For example:
> 1. Is there anything in the PIP-341 discussion that could not have been
> brought to the mailing list in a [DISCUSS] PIP-341 thread?
> The only thing I can find on a mailing list is this thread.
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/nott6fyo2vylv1d7nq3zwhsojm05fkgr>
> 2, Trivy - I don’t see it brought back:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:Trivy
> <
> https://lists.apache.org/list?*@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:Trivy
> >
> 3. Pulsar Manager - Nothing brought back to the mailing list:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1|dto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager
> <https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager>
> <
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@pulsar.apache.org:dfr=2024-1-1%7Cdto=2024-3-6:pulsar%20manager
> >
> 4. Cherry pick question came back as this wall of text:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/j6qvt45rndnvjypcmqxsfmddqt41bxjv>
>
> I can see how this can look to an outsider like decisions are being made
> in a non-open manner in a synchronous meeting.
>
> If you wish to continue with this meeting then please publish the agenda
> in advance to the Mailing List!
>
> Best,
> Dave
>
>