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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by nkin aya <kh...@gmail.com> on 2012/03/15 15:52:26 UTC
Report a bug
Hi,
first, thank you for all the products of open office.
i want to tell you that when the file(.odt) is saving and if the computer
shute down(simultanesly), the file became empty when the computer is
restarted.
thank you again.
Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
Posted by Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>.
Hi,
you can find the solution at the end of every posting.
It begins with. To unsubscribe ....
Josef
Am 16.03.2012 11:10, schrieb Howard Arnott:
> Hi, I would like to stop all these emails. Can you help ?
>
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RE: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
Posted by Howard Arnott <ho...@virgin.net>.
Hi, I would like to stop all these emails. Can you help ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry [mailto:terauck-aouser@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: 16 March 2012 09:40
To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
Thanks. I was unaware of the change. I have switched recovery off for
several years.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>
> To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
>
> Hi,
>
> Am 16.03.2012 07:43, schrieb Terry:
>
>>> Whats about the implemented 'AutoRecovery information'. It
> saves all
>>> information to recover files after a crash. AFAIK these information
> will
>>> be deleted after the files are completely saved.
>>> IMHO its needful to set the recovery time shorter than default.
>>>
>>> AFAIK, the automatic backup was replaced by this function.
>>
>> Auto-recovery needs to be fixed. Since starting to use the software
about
> 6 years ago I have read more than a few complaints about the 'recovery'
> process over-writing the saved version of the file with something less
than the
> saved version if not a corrupted version of the file
>
> That's not right. The recovery process doesn't overwrite the saved file.
> The user will be informed about documents, which can be recovered and
asked to
> open them. Once the document is open, his handling is as usual.
>
> The recovered document has less information than the opened document
before the
> crash. Therefore I wrote that the recovery time must be adjusted
individually. A
> short time to minimize the lost of information, but not to short, because
saving
> needs time, espacially with big documents.
>
> -- PGP Schlüssel: 311D1055
> http://keyserver.pgp.com
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Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
Posted by Terry <te...@yahoo.com.au>.
Thanks. I was unaware of the change. I have switched recovery off for several years.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>
> To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
>
> Hi,
>
> Am 16.03.2012 07:43, schrieb Terry:
>
>>> Whats about the implemented 'AutoRecovery information'. It
> saves all
>>> information to recover files after a crash. AFAIK these information
> will
>>> be deleted after the files are completely saved.
>>> IMHO its needful to set the recovery time shorter than default.
>>>
>>> AFAIK, the automatic backup was replaced by this function.
>>
>> Auto-recovery needs to be fixed. Since starting to use the software about
> 6 years ago I have read more than a few complaints about the 'recovery'
> process over-writing the saved version of the file with something less than the
> saved version if not a corrupted version of the file
>
> That's not right. The recovery process doesn't overwrite the saved file.
> The user will be informed about documents, which can be recovered and asked to
> open them. Once the document is open, his handling is as usual.
>
> The recovered document has less information than the opened document before the
> crash. Therefore I wrote that the recovery time must be adjusted individually. A
> short time to minimize the lost of information, but not to short, because saving
> needs time, espacially with big documents.
>
> -- PGP Schlüssel: 311D1055
> http://keyserver.pgp.com
>
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Re: Report a bug
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:48:41 +0100, Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net> a écrit :
> That's not right. The recovery process doesn't overwrite the saved file. The user will be informed about documents, which can be recovered and asked to open them. Once the document is open, his handling is as usual.
>
> The recovered document has less information than the opened document before the crash. Therefore I wrote that the recovery time must be adjusted individually. A short time to minimize the lost of information, but not to short, because saving needs time, espacially with big documents.
>
In fact, the recovered document can have more information than the last saved version. But it can be the opposite and in case of doubts, better save the recovered file under a new name and check the state of the last saved version.
Hagar
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Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Report a bug
Posted by Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>.
Hi,
Am 16.03.2012 07:43, schrieb Terry:
>> Whats about the implemented 'AutoRecovery information'. It saves all
>> information to recover files after a crash. AFAIK these information will
>> be deleted after the files are completely saved.
>> IMHO its needful to set the recovery time shorter than default.
>>
>> AFAIK, the automatic backup was replaced by this function.
>
> Auto-recovery needs to be fixed. Since starting to use the software about 6 years ago I have read more than a few complaints about the 'recovery' process over-writing the saved version of the file with something less than the saved version if not a corrupted version of the file
That's not right. The recovery process doesn't overwrite the saved file.
The user will be informed about documents, which can be recovered and
asked to open them. Once the document is open, his handling is as usual.
The recovered document has less information than the opened document
before the crash. Therefore I wrote that the recovery time must be
adjusted individually. A short time to minimize the lost of information,
but not to short, because saving needs time, espacially with big documents.
--
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Re: Report a bug
Posted by Terry <te...@yahoo.com.au>.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>
> To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Report a bug
>
> Hi,
>
> Am 15.03.2012 23:29, schrieb Rob Weir:
>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Hagar
> Delest<ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>
> But I think we know how
>> to solve, or at least reduce problem #2. The trick is to reduce the
>> "window of vulnerability" for total loss by saving initially to a
>> temporary file, and only after the file is completely saved then
>> rename it. Since an OS-level rename operation is lighting fast, you
>> reduce your risk. And if power does go out during the rename
>> operation, modern OS's will know enough to rollback the file names so
>> you still have your temporary file in place. Then the app can check
>> for any temporary files when it loads and offer to restore them.
>
> Whats about the implemented 'AutoRecovery information'. It saves all
> information to recover files after a crash. AFAIK these information will
> be deleted after the files are completely saved.
> IMHO its needful to set the recovery time shorter than default.
>
> AFAIK, the automatic backup was replaced by this function.
>
> Josef
>
> --
> PGP Schlüssel: 311D1055
> http://keyserver.pgp.com
>
Auto-recovery needs to be fixed. Since starting to use the software about 6 years ago I have read more than a few complaints about the 'recovery' process over-writing the saved version of the file with something less than the saved version if not a corrupted version of the file
Terry
>
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Re: Report a bug
Posted by Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>.
Hi,
Am 15.03.2012 23:29, schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Hagar Delest<ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> See http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
>>
>> But if you shut down the machine before it has ended all the processes,
>> don't expect any application to do better.
>>
>
But I think we know how
> to solve, or at least reduce problem #2. The trick is to reduce the
> "window of vulnerability" for total loss by saving initially to a
> temporary file, and only after the file is completely saved then
> rename it. Since an OS-level rename operation is lighting fast, you
> reduce your risk. And if power does go out during the rename
> operation, modern OS's will know enough to rollback the file names so
> you still have your temporary file in place. Then the app can check
> for any temporary files when it loads and offer to restore them.
Whats about the implemented 'AutoRecovery information'. It saves all
information to recover files after a crash. AFAIK these information will
be deleted after the files are completely saved.
IMHO its needful to set the recovery time shorter than default.
AFAIK, the automatic backup was replaced by this function.
Josef
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Re: Report a bug
Posted by Terry <te...@yahoo.com.au>.
>________________________________
> From: Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012 9:29 AM
>Subject: Re: Report a bug
>
>On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>>
>> See http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
>>
>> But if you shut down the machine before it has ended all the processes,
>> don't expect any application to do better.
>>
>
>I've been thinking about this some. We're dealing with a complex
>system of the user, the application, the operating system, the
>hardware and the electrical power. Failure can happen at any point.
>We manage to escape application crashes from setting your house on
>fire. That wasn't always so in the history of computing. Failures
>are generally limited, or at least engineers try their best.
>
>If power goes out during a save operation, three failures can
>generally occur (and I'm speaking generally, not just about
>OpenOffice):
>
>1) The user loses the data that was in memory but not yet written to disk.
>
>2) The user loses both the data that was in memory (current state of
>the document) as well as the previous state of the document (the
>version already on disk)
>
I was not aware that the saved version could be lost simply because the document was open at the time of crash. I have occasionally shut the system down inadvertently while documents were open and have suffered no loss. Perhaps the operating system has that covered?
>3) The user loses both versions of the document as well as corrupts
>their file system causing other, totally unrelated files to be lost.
>
>Anyone remember #3, how things were 20 years ago? Hopefully OS
>vendors have generally solved that problem. But I think we know how
>to solve, or at least reduce problem #2. The trick is to reduce the
>"window of vulnerability" for total loss by saving initially to a
>temporary file, and only after the file is completely saved then
>rename it. Since an OS-level rename operation is lighting fast, you
>reduce your risk. And if power does go out during the rename
>operation, modern OS's will know enough to rollback the file names so
>you still have your temporary file in place. Then the app can check
>for any temporary files when it loads and offer to restore them.
>
>So it is possible to do something reasonable here. Of course, in
>case 1) above, auto backup is your friend.
>
Doesn't auto backup occur only when a document is being saved?
<End of comments> Regards, Terry
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> first, thank you for all the products of open office.
>>> i want to tell you that when the file(.odt) is saving and if the computer
>>> shute down(simultanesly), the file became empty when the computer is
>>> restarted.
>>> thank you again.
>>>
>>
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Re: Report a bug
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> See http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
>
> But if you shut down the machine before it has ended all the processes,
> don't expect any application to do better.
>
I've been thinking about this some. We're dealing with a complex
system of the user, the application, the operating system, the
hardware and the electrical power. Failure can happen at any point.
We manage to escape application crashes from setting your house on
fire. That wasn't always so in the history of computing. Failures
are generally limited, or at least engineers try their best.
If power goes out during a save operation, three failures can
generally occur (and I'm speaking generally, not just about
OpenOffice):
1) The user loses the data that was in memory but not yet written to disk.
2) The user loses both the data that was in memory (current state of
the document) as well as the previous state of the document (the
version already on disk)
3) The user loses both versions of the document as well as corrupts
their file system causing other, totally unrelated files to be lost.
Anyone remember #3, how things were 20 years ago? Hopefully OS
vendors have generally solved that problem. But I think we know how
to solve, or at least reduce problem #2. The trick is to reduce the
"window of vulnerability" for total loss by saving initially to a
temporary file, and only after the file is completely saved then
rename it. Since an OS-level rename operation is lighting fast, you
reduce your risk. And if power does go out during the rename
operation, modern OS's will know enough to rollback the file names so
you still have your temporary file in place. Then the app can check
for any temporary files when it loads and offer to restore them.
So it is possible to do something reasonable here. Of course, in
case 1) above, auto backup is your friend.
-Rob
> Hagar
>
>
>
>> Hi,
>> first, thank you for all the products of open office.
>> i want to tell you that when the file(.odt) is saving and if the computer
>> shute down(simultanesly), the file became empty when the computer is
>> restarted.
>> thank you again.
>>
>
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>
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Re: Report a bug
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
hi,
See http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677
But if you shut down the machine before it has ended all the processes, don't expect any application to do better.
Hagar
> Hi,
> first, thank you for all the products of open office.
> i want to tell you that when the file(.odt) is saving and if the computer
> shute down(simultanesly), the file became empty when the computer is
> restarted.
> thank you again.
>
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