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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Tim Miller <ti...@childrens.harvard.edu> on 2013/03/26 15:04:12 UTC
ctakes model
We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative called
svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If the results
are good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We thought we
should consult legal because this software uses a custom license not
covered by FAQs, and we just want to be on the safe side. The full text
of the license is attached.
(Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the
web here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at
the svmlight webpage.)
To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or svmlight-tk
source or binaries or even use maven to download them. There is code in
clearTK which can read these models and process new data and is license
compatible. We are only talking about distributing models trained with
the svmlight and svmlight-tk packages.
Thanks,
--
Tim Miller, PhD
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Children's Hospital Informatics Program
Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School
617-919-1223
Re: ctakes model - distribution encumbered?
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Mar 28, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com> wrote:
> First, I am not a Lawyer; these are just personal opinions from reading the
> license. It seems that there might be two restrictions on users of CTakes with
> these models, from the referenced license for SVM-Light.
>
> The first one - it seems that you would need to prohibit down-stream users of
> CTakes from using the models produced by this software for other than "research
> and education" purposes.
Well, that would certainly be a non-starter. However, I'm not sure the license says that. If downstream users aren't using svmlight software, would they be bound by the terms of the license? I don't think that's really spelled out in the license. Though that may have been the author's desire...
I have a question about the project members' use of svmlight software. Are they using the software for "research and education purposes"? Or commercial purposes?
My answer would be neither. In which case, it would seem that project members do not have a license to use svmlight.
I would suggest that the CTakes project contact the author. Explain what you want to do with the software, ask for clarification, and see if the licensing issue(s) can be resolved.
>
> The 2nd one is that down-stream users of CTakes who produce "scientific results"
> using the "models" produced with this software would seem to be encumbered by
> the Licensing term which states that "Scientific results produced using the
> software provided shall acknowledge the use of SVM-Light...". The case I'm
> thinking of: a users downloads CTakes, and produces some scientific results,
> using the models that you distribute.
That would be a non-starter, too. But my understanding of Tim's email is that clearTK can read the models and clearTK is not encumbered by the svmLight license. And that gets us back to the above questions...
--kevan
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Re: ctakes model - distribution encumbered?
Posted by Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com>.
First, I am not a Lawyer; these are just personal opinions from reading the
license. It seems that there might be two restrictions on users of CTakes with
these models, from the referenced license for SVM-Light.
The first one - it seems that you would need to prohibit down-stream users of
CTakes from using the models produced by this software for other than "research
and education" purposes.
The 2nd one is that down-stream users of CTakes who produce "scientific results"
using the "models" produced with this software would seem to be encumbered by
the Licensing term which states that "Scientific results produced using the
software provided shall acknowledge the use of SVM-Light...". The case I'm
thinking of: a users downloads CTakes, and produces some scientific results,
using the models that you distribute.
-Marshall Schor
On 3/26/2013 10:04 AM, Tim Miller wrote:
> We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative called
> svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If the results are
> good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We thought we should
> consult legal because this software uses a custom license not covered by FAQs,
> and we just want to be on the safe side. The full text of the license is
> attached.
> (Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the web
> here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at the svmlight
> webpage.)
>
> To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or svmlight-tk source
> or binaries or even use maven to download them. There is code in clearTK which
> can read these models and process new data and is license compatible. We are
> only talking about distributing models trained with the svmlight and
> svmlight-tk packages.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
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Re: ctakes model
Posted by Steven Bethard <st...@Colorado.EDU>.
Excellent. Thanks for following through with this Tim!
Steve
On Mar 29, 2013, at 8:46 AM, Tim Miller <ti...@childrens.harvard.edu> wrote:
> I emailed the author of svmlight and he was very clear that our usage is
> acceptable:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Using the models trained with my software in the way you describe is fine with me for the application you describe. Feel free to include the trained models in the distribution under any license you like...
>
> Cheers
> Thorsten
>
> Tim
>
> On 03/26/2013 10:04 AM, Tim Miller wrote:
>> We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative
>> called svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If
>> the results are good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We
>> thought we should consult legal because this software uses a custom
>> license not covered by FAQs, and we just want to be on the safe side.
>> The full text of the license is attached.
>> (Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the
>> web here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at
>> the svmlight webpage.)
>>
>> To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or
>> svmlight-tk source or binaries or even use maven to download them.
>> There is code in clearTK which can read these models and process new
>> data and is license compatible. We are only talking about distributing
>> models trained with the svmlight and svmlight-tk packages.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>
Re: ctakes model
Posted by Tim Miller <ti...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
I emailed the author of svmlight and he was very clear that our usage is
acceptable:
Hi Tim,
Using the models trained with my software in the way you describe is fine with me for the application you describe. Feel free to include the trained models in the distribution under any license you like...
Cheers
Thorsten
Tim
On 03/26/2013 10:04 AM, Tim Miller wrote:
> We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative
> called svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If
> the results are good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We
> thought we should consult legal because this software uses a custom
> license not covered by FAQs, and we just want to be on the safe side.
> The full text of the license is attached.
> (Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the
> web here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at
> the svmlight webpage.)
>
> To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or
> svmlight-tk source or binaries or even use maven to download them.
> There is code in clearTK which can read these models and process new
> data and is license compatible. We are only talking about distributing
> models trained with the svmlight and svmlight-tk packages.
>
> Thanks,
>
Re: ctakes model
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Jochen Wiedmann
<jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Depends on your definition of "Interesting". However, the section you
> are quoting seems to me to be already sufficient for a
>
> "Don't use this stuff in any Apache project."
>
> ASL'ed software is definitely supposed to be usable without such
> restrictions.
>
> OTOH, I understand your question like this:
>
> "svmlight is used to generate something called 'models'." If that is
> correct, the quoted section doesn't necessarily apply
> to those models. In fact, I'd contact the author for a definite statement.
>
>
Tim has contacted the author and forwarded the response to this list - see:
*http://s.apache.org/W42*
Niall
> Jochen
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:38 AM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> > "This program is granted free of charge for research and education
> > purposes. However you must obtain a license from the author to use it
> > for commercial purposes."
> >
> > Interesting one.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Tim Miller
> > <ti...@childrens.harvard.edu> wrote:
> >> We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative called
> >> svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If the
> results are
> >> good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We thought we should
> >> consult legal because this software uses a custom license not covered by
> >> FAQs, and we just want to be on the safe side. The full text of the
> license
> >> is attached.
> >> (Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the
> web
> >> here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at the
> >> svmlight webpage.)
> >>
> >> To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or svmlight-tk
> >> source or binaries or even use maven to download them. There is code in
> >> clearTK which can read these models and process new data and is license
> >> compatible. We are only talking about distributing models trained with
> the
> >> svmlight and svmlight-tk packages.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tim Miller, PhD
> >> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
> >> Children's Hospital Informatics Program
> >> Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School
> >> 617-919-1223
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make
> friends with the bully!"
>
> Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: ctakes model
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
Depends on your definition of "Interesting". However, the section you
are quoting seems to me to be already sufficient for a
"Don't use this stuff in any Apache project."
ASL'ed software is definitely supposed to be usable without such restrictions.
OTOH, I understand your question like this:
"svmlight is used to generate something called 'models'." If that is
correct, the quoted section doesn't necessarily apply
to those models. In fact, I'd contact the author for a definite statement.
Jochen
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:38 AM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> "This program is granted free of charge for research and education
> purposes. However you must obtain a license from the author to use it
> for commercial purposes."
>
> Interesting one.
>
> Hen
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Tim Miller
> <ti...@childrens.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative called
>> svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If the results are
>> good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We thought we should
>> consult legal because this software uses a custom license not covered by
>> FAQs, and we just want to be on the safe side. The full text of the license
>> is attached.
>> (Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the web
>> here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at the
>> svmlight webpage.)
>>
>> To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or svmlight-tk
>> source or binaries or even use maven to download them. There is code in
>> clearTK which can read these models and process new data and is license
>> compatible. We are only talking about distributing models trained with the
>> svmlight and svmlight-tk packages.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Tim Miller, PhD
>> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
>> Children's Hospital Informatics Program
>> Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School
>> 617-919-1223
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
--
"That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make
friends with the bully!"
Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
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Re: ctakes model
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
"This program is granted free of charge for research and education
purposes. However you must obtain a license from the author to use it
for commercial purposes."
Interesting one.
Hen
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Tim Miller
<ti...@childrens.harvard.edu> wrote:
> We are using a software package called svmlight and a derivative called
> svmlight-tk to train machine learning models in research. If the results are
> good we would like to include the models in cTAKES. We thought we should
> consult legal because this software uses a custom license not covered by
> FAQs, and we just want to be on the safe side. The full text of the license
> is attached.
> (Just in case the attachment doesn't work I was able to find it on the web
> here: http://morphix-nlp.berlios.de/manual/node48.html but not at the
> svmlight webpage.)
>
> To be clear, we do not want to redistribute the svmlight or svmlight-tk
> source or binaries or even use maven to download them. There is code in
> clearTK which can read these models and process new data and is license
> compatible. We are only talking about distributing models trained with the
> svmlight and svmlight-tk packages.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Tim Miller, PhD
> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
> Children's Hospital Informatics Program
> Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School
> 617-919-1223
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
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