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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> on 2013/11/28 03:51:56 UTC
[DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Hi,
It's coming up on a year of Alex being the Flex PMC chair, as per our recently voted in guidelines [1] it's time to review that.
I think Alex done an excellent job and I know he'd happy to continue in the role, but I'd like to see it change so other people get the chance to experience that role. I'd like to put my name up for the role.
What do people think? Are there any other PMC members who also want to take on the responsibility of being the chair? See [2] for duties/responsibilities of the chair.
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Guidelines
2. http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
PS Anyone know if the position is usually open to only PMC members only (seems resonable) or committers as well?
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
+1 to Justin taking over.
-1 to Alex resigning.
I guess I am torn.
My vote is 0.
Thanks,
Om
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> Unless Alex resigns, of course, my vote would go to "never change a
> winning team," and I really think we're winning.
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > It's coming up on a year of Alex being the Flex PMC chair, as per our
> recently voted in guidelines [1] it's time to review that.
> >
> > I think Alex done an excellent job and I know he'd happy to continue in
> the role, but I'd like to see it change so other people get the chance to
> experience that role. I'd like to put my name up for the role.
> >
> > What do people think? Are there any other PMC members who also want to
> take on the responsibility of being the chair? See [2] for
> duties/responsibilities of the chair.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Guidelines
> > 2. http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
> >
> > PS Anyone know if the position is usually open to only PMC members only
> (seems resonable) or committers as well?
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Tom Chiverton <tc...@extravision.com>.
On 28/11/2013 06:52, Erik de Bruin wrote:
> Unless Alex resigns, of course, my vote would go to "never change a
> winning team," and I really think we're winning.
Me too. I think Justin is doing a great job getting the releases out though.
Tom
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
Unless Alex resigns, of course, my vote would go to "never change a
winning team," and I really think we're winning.
EdB
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It's coming up on a year of Alex being the Flex PMC chair, as per our recently voted in guidelines [1] it's time to review that.
>
> I think Alex done an excellent job and I know he'd happy to continue in the role, but I'd like to see it change so other people get the chance to experience that role. I'd like to put my name up for the role.
>
> What do people think? Are there any other PMC members who also want to take on the responsibility of being the chair? See [2] for duties/responsibilities of the chair.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Guidelines
> 2. http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> PS Anyone know if the position is usually open to only PMC members only (seems resonable) or committers as well?
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Mark Kessler <ke...@gmail.com>.
IMO I'm accepting of Alex to remain as long as he wishes as he is doing a
fine job. The chair has additional duties such as doing quarterly reports,
board meeting minute reviews, new pmc member changes / coordination, and
such. However the decisions made for the Apache Flex project are voted on
by our PMC and commiters. To me unless someone else is itching to give
being chair a shot, it seems to me like not changing anything is the
easiest.
If the decision is made to vote for a possible new chair, I would agree
that you must be in the PMC for consideration and it would be beneficial to
only have our full time members on the list.
-Mark
AW: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by "christofer.dutz@c-ware.de" <ch...@c-ware.de>.
I see it exactly the same way (Except for the thing with the letters and the number) ;-)
Chris
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Avi Kessner [mailto:akessner@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2013 12:52
An: dev@flex.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
I didn't care, and thought the rational to give more people the experience is a good one. However, the logic in following argument might be sound and a bit scary.
"There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I think it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some non-Flex position if he's the Flex PMC chair.
"
Hearing from Alex on that would be good. Because I don't think we are ready to miss out on Adobe support just yet.
brought to you by the letters A, V, and I and the number 47
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
> I don't care myself. My impression is that many of the folks on this
> list are US based; and you started the conversation at the start of a
> major US Holiday [Thanksgiving]. That may have contributed to the
> lack of a response. I, myself, have been running non-stop for 6 days
> [and I have two more before I can look up].
>
> You may consider waiting until mid-week and giving the thread another
> poke.
>
>
> On 12/1/2013 1:04 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't
>> care one way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
>>
>> Justin
>>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> 203-379-0773
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Personally, while I think Justin is more than capable to be the chair,
things are running smooth right now and we do have some momentum behind us.
No need to change things right now so long Alex wishes to remain the PMC
Chair.
-Nick
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/1/13 6:28 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >> "There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I
> >>think
> >> it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some
> >>non-Flex
> >> position if he's the Flex PMC chair."
> >
> >I'd be concerned if we thought that Alex needed to be the chair for
> >Adobe's continual involvement in the project. I would assume it really
> >doesn't matter to them one little bit.
> Definitely, Adobe should not (and does not) have such influence. Whether
> I am chair or not won't affect Adobe's investment in Apache Flex.
>
> Right now, I can always find time to do the PMC duties since I essentially
> get paid by Adobe to do it. This won't be true forever, and I never
> really saw myself being chair forever. The question is more about when to
> change. I was waiting to see if this thread would conjure up more folks
> who wanted to take a turn as chair eventually, but Jeffry may be right
> that nobody is paying attention during this long US holiday weekend. If
> there were more folks interested in PMC Chair duties, it would make sense
> to rotate more often. If there are only a few, should we change less
> often, or just keep cycling through those few, or is that, once you've had
> your turn, you can't return to the role?
>
> > what is important is that Alex is working on an internal project that
> >uses FlexJS. But then I don't work for Adobe so that is just speculation
> >on my part.
> Technically, I am not working on an internal project, I am working on
> Apache Flex and FlexJS which an internal project is evaluating as a way
> forward.
>
> -Alex
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> If there are only a few, should we change less
> often, or just keep cycling through those few, or is that, once you've had
> your turn, you can't return to the role?
I see no issue in returning to the role, you you did a good job no reason you cant again - of course you need to be voted in.
Thanks for clarifying Adobe position re your involvement.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 12/1/13 6:28 AM, "Justin Mclean" <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>> "There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I
>>think
>> it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some
>>non-Flex
>> position if he's the Flex PMC chair."
>
>I'd be concerned if we thought that Alex needed to be the chair for
>Adobe's continual involvement in the project. I would assume it really
>doesn't matter to them one little bit.
Definitely, Adobe should not (and does not) have such influence. Whether
I am chair or not won't affect Adobe's investment in Apache Flex.
Right now, I can always find time to do the PMC duties since I essentially
get paid by Adobe to do it. This won't be true forever, and I never
really saw myself being chair forever. The question is more about when to
change. I was waiting to see if this thread would conjure up more folks
who wanted to take a turn as chair eventually, but Jeffry may be right
that nobody is paying attention during this long US holiday weekend. If
there were more folks interested in PMC Chair duties, it would make sense
to rotate more often. If there are only a few, should we change less
often, or just keep cycling through those few, or is that, once you've had
your turn, you can't return to the role?
> what is important is that Alex is working on an internal project that
>uses FlexJS. But then I don't work for Adobe so that is just speculation
>on my part.
Technically, I am not working on an internal project, I am working on
Apache Flex and FlexJS which an internal project is evaluating as a way
forward.
-Alex
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> "There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I think
> it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some non-Flex
> position if he's the Flex PMC chair."
I'd be concerned if we thought that Alex needed to be the chair for Adobe's continual involvement in the project. I would assume it really doesn't matter to them one little bit, what is important is that Alex is working on an internal project that uses FlexJS. But then I don't work for Adobe so that is just speculation on my part.
> Hearing from Alex on that would be good. Because I don't think we are ready
> to miss out on Adobe support just yet.
Some of the other Adobe contributors (eg Gordon or Carol) are no longer regular contributors to the project, but that doesn't mean Adobe doesn't support the project.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Avi Kessner <ak...@gmail.com>.
I didn't care, and thought the rational to give more people the experience
is a good one. However, the logic in following argument might be sound and
a bit scary.
"There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I think
it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some non-Flex
position if he's the Flex PMC chair.
"
Hearing from Alex on that would be good. Because I don't think we are ready
to miss out on Adobe support just yet.
brought to you by the letters A, V, and I
and the number 47
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
> I don't care myself. My impression is that many of the folks on this
> list are US based; and you started the conversation at the start of a major
> US Holiday [Thanksgiving]. That may have contributed to the lack of a
> response. I, myself, have been running non-stop for 6 days [and I have two
> more before I can look up].
>
> You may consider waiting until mid-week and giving the thread another
> poke.
>
>
> On 12/1/2013 1:04 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't care
>> one way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
>>
>> Justin
>>
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> 203-379-0773
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Jun Heider <ju...@realeyes.com>.
On Dec 1, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Doug McCune <do...@dougmccune.com> wrote:
> My personal opinion is that you guys should swap and give Justin (or
> someone else who's interested) the opportunity for a year. One thing the
> project needs is good bench strength if anything were to happen that would
> limit someone's involvement. I'd be concerned with the prospect of Adobe
> pulling funding for Alex, and then him having a hard time justifying the
> time.
>
> Overall having two people equally competent to chair the project ensures
> that we reduce the risk of having the chair need to step down and nobody
> stepping into the place. I think having Alex help a second chair hit the
> ground running and ensure the project's continuity would be a really good
> thing at this point in time. In the future switching every year might be
> overkill, but right now I think training up a second chair would be really
> good for the project.
>
Knowing Alex and Justin both and their commitment to Apache Flex I think either Justin or Alex would both make a perfectly acceptable chair. That said, I would say I agree with Doug. Strong bench and redundancy sounds like a winner to me.
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Doug McCune <do...@dougmccune.com>.
My personal opinion is that you guys should swap and give Justin (or
someone else who's interested) the opportunity for a year. One thing the
project needs is good bench strength if anything were to happen that would
limit someone's involvement. I'd be concerned with the prospect of Adobe
pulling funding for Alex, and then him having a hard time justifying the
time.
Overall having two people equally competent to chair the project ensures
that we reduce the risk of having the chair need to step down and nobody
stepping into the place. I think having Alex help a second chair hit the
ground running and ensure the project's continuity would be a really good
thing at this point in time. In the future switching every year might be
overkill, but right now I think training up a second chair would be really
good for the project.
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Exactly it is a time for friends and family here in the US.
>
> I also think that self-nomination may be an issue as well. I'm not sure
> how I want to respond to thAt part.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 1, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I don't care myself. My impression is that many of the folks on this
> list are US based; and you started the conversation at the start of a major
> US Holiday [Thanksgiving]. That may have contributed to the lack of a
> response. I, myself, have been running non-stop for 6 days [and I have two
> more before I can look up].
> >
> > You may consider waiting until mid-week and giving the thread another
> poke.
> >
> > On 12/1/2013 1:04 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't
> care one way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
> >>
> >> Justin
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeffry Houser
> > Technical Entrepreneur
> > http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > 203-379-0773
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> I also think that self-nomination may be an issue as well. I'm not sure how I want to respond to thAt part.
I did ask if any anyone else was interested in the role. This discussion is trying to find out if there is any consensus for change.
As per our (newish) guidelines [1] it's first up to Alex, he can commit to continuing in the role for a year or we have a vote to elect a new chair.
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Guidelines
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>.
Exactly it is a time for friends and family here in the US.
I also think that self-nomination may be an issue as well. I'm not sure how I want to respond to thAt part.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 1, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com> wrote:
>
> I don't care myself. My impression is that many of the folks on this list are US based; and you started the conversation at the start of a major US Holiday [Thanksgiving]. That may have contributed to the lack of a response. I, myself, have been running non-stop for 6 days [and I have two more before I can look up].
>
> You may consider waiting until mid-week and giving the thread another poke.
>
> On 12/1/2013 1:04 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't care one way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
>>
>> Justin
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> 203-379-0773
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
I don't care myself. My impression is that many of the folks on this
list are US based; and you started the conversation at the start of a
major US Holiday [Thanksgiving]. That may have contributed to the lack
of a response. I, myself, have been running non-stop for 6 days [and I
have two more before I can look up].
You may consider waiting until mid-week and giving the thread another
poke.
On 12/1/2013 1:04 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't care one way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
>
> Justin
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
203-379-0773
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't care one way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> I was under the impression I was only a committer. I think the the team page is a mistake.
Sorry you're right it seems that it s in error. I had thought for some reason you were on the initial list of committers and thus become a PMC when the project become a TLP.
Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
I was under the impression I was only a committer. I think the the team page is a mistake.
Harbs
On Nov 29, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> I was speaking about Harbs, because he said we was committer only, and the Team page shows he is P+C.
> He's a PMC member so could be voted in as chair. I think a few of people don't realise that they are PMC members as they were not directly vote in like more recent PMC members.
>
> As per the guidelines someone can choose to retire from the PMC (and rejoin later) if they so desire.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> I was speaking about Harbs, because he said we was committer only, and the Team page shows he is P+C.
He's a PMC member so could be voted in as chair. I think a few of people don't realise that they are PMC members as they were not directly vote in like more recent PMC members.
As per the guidelines someone can choose to retire from the PMC (and rejoin later) if they so desire.
Thanks,
Justin
RE: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Maurice Amsellem <ma...@systar.com>.
I was speaking about Harbs, because he said we was committer only, and the Team page shows he is P+C.
Harbs: " It does not make sense to me for someone who has not put in the effort necessary to get voted on as a PMC member (such as myself) ;-) to become the chair."
are you saying the same ?
Not a big deal anyway...
Maurice
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Justin Mclean [mailto:justin@classsoftware.com]
Envoyé : vendredi 29 novembre 2013 00:50
À : dev@flex.apache.org
Objet : Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Hi,
> FYI, you appear as C+P on the Apache Flex Team page.
All of the initial committers were made PMC as well, so it only people who have been voted in since that time may be "only" committers. 3 or 4 (I think of top o f my head) have been voted in as PMC.
With the recent guidelines been voted in we're actually given committers more voting rights ie they can veto code changes.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> FYI, you appear as C+P on the Apache Flex Team page.
All of the initial committers were made PMC as well, so it only people who have been voted in since that time may be "only" committers. 3 or 4 (I think of top o f my head) have been voted in as PMC.
With the recent guidelines been voted in we're actually given committers more voting rights ie they can veto code changes.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Mark Kessler <ke...@gmail.com>.
Well if you want a turn and it gets voted on. I'll agree to fairness is
change.
-Mark
--
View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development.2333347.n4.nabble.com/DISCUSS-Apache-Flex-chair-tp32664p32722.html
Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
As I said in my original email I think Alex has done/is doing an excellent job.
One other reason may consider changing the chair is r educed risk to the project. Having people take on different roles means that there is less risk if someone who has always done that role suddenly leaves the project. We have a similar issue with making releases IMO.
But if consensus is that there no reason to change I'll wait until next year :-)
Thanks,
Justin
RE: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Maurice Amsellem <ma...@systar.com>.
>It does not make sense to me for someone who has not put in the effort necessary to get voted on as a PMC member (such as myself) ;-) to become the chair.
FYI, you appear as C+P on the Apache Flex Team page:
http://flex.apache.org/about-people.html
(I am not trying to put the pressure on you ;-)
Maurice
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
Envoyé : jeudi 28 novembre 2013 15:29
À : dev@flex.apache.org
Objet : Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
I think Justin has been doing an excellent job getting out releases, but at the same time, Alex has been doing an excellent job as Chair.
I'm from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp. So, I'd vote to keep Alex as Chair.
There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I think it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some non-Flex position if he's the Flex PMC chair.
> PS Anyone know if the position is usually open to only PMC members only (seems resonable) or committers as well?
It does not make sense to me for someone who has not put in the effort necessary to get voted on as a PMC member (such as myself) ;-) to become the chair.
Harbs
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
I think Justin has been doing an excellent job getting out releases, but at the same time, Alex has been doing an excellent job as Chair.
I'm from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp. So, I'd vote to keep Alex as Chair.
There's the additional rationale keeping Alex in the position as I think it would be less likely for folks at Adobe to assign him to some non-Flex position if he's the Flex PMC chair.
> PS Anyone know if the position is usually open to only PMC members only (seems resonable) or committers as well?
It does not make sense to me for someone who has not put in the effort necessary to get voted on as a PMC member (such as myself) ;-) to become the chair…
Harbs