[DISCUSS] Re: [VOTE-PROPOSAL] Proposal to deprecate Google Groups

[Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>]

Hi -

What types of discussions are frequent on the google group? How many posts are typical?

It might be good to coalesce the community on the dev@ until there are clearly enough users and volume of email to need a users@ mailing list.

Regards,
Dave

> On Feb 6, 2020, at 1:22 PM, leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> This is a call for a vote on the following:
> 
> I propose that we deprecate the Google Groups <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sketches-user> forum and direct users to a newly created users@ email list.
> 
> The steps would be as follows:
> Create a new users@datasketches.apache.org <ma...@datasketches.apache.org> email list.
> Clearly mark the existing Google Groups site as deprecated and direct users to the new list.
> Update all references to the Google Groups site on our web site and repository READMEs to the new list.
> This vote will be performed in one stage: 
>    - This letter will be published on dev@ and remain open for at least 72 hours and at least 3 (+1) PPMC votes or a majority of (+1) are acquired. All PPMC members including Mentors can vote.
> 
> Please vote accordingly:
> 
> [ ] +1 approve 
> [ ] +0 no opinion 
> [ ] -1 disapprove with the reason
> 
> Thanks,
> Lee Rhodes
> leerho@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>

Re: [DISCUSS] Re: [VOTE-PROPOSAL] Proposal to deprecate Google Groups

[Jon Malkin <jo...@gmail.com>]

From experience with slack channels, I like the separate users@ vs dev@
model. I'd be fine with a footer appending to messages, if apache supports
it and we want it, on ther users@ inviting people to joining dev@ to get
involved with development. So I'm very much not trying to hide the dev@
list. just keep user questions separate from development questions.

The google group has always been intended as a forum for users to ask
questions. It was occasionally used to report an issue (although people are
generally creating issues in git, which is better), although a significant
majority of code posted there was from user code, trying to understand what
wasn't working. I think there have been a couple threads asking about
something in the library code itself, but they've been rare.

  jon

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 11:27 AM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> I collected stats for 2019 and the average # of posts per month is 15 with
> wide variability from 0 to 50 per month.
>
> One concern about consolidating the traffic onto dev@ is that I think a
> number of new users might hesitate to submit naive questions on the
> developer list because they don't view themselves as developers and don't
> want to intrude.  A list labeled as "users" clearly includes new users and
> I think would be more friendly.
>
> A second issue is separation of traffic.  For example, our science members
> are not in a position to support new users and I would prefer to give them
> the option of not signing up for the users@ traffic.
>
> An additional thought is that if we set up the users@ list now we would
> not have to migrate them out of the dev@ list later and we wouldn't have
> to have all our users do yet another migration.
>
> I'd like to hear from some other folks about these issues.
>
> Lee.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 10:50 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> What types of discussions are frequent on the google group? How many
>> posts are typical?
>>
>> It might be good to coalesce the community on the dev@ until there are
>> clearly enough users and volume of email to need a users@ mailing list.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2020, at 1:22 PM, leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> This is a call for a vote on the following:
>>
>> I propose that we deprecate the Google Groups
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sketches-user> forum and direct
>> users to a newly created users@ email list.
>>
>> The steps would be as follows:
>>
>>    1. Create a new users@datasketches.apache.org email list.
>>    2. Clearly mark the existing Google Groups site as deprecated and
>>    direct users to the new list.
>>    3. Update all references to the Google Groups site on our web site
>>    and repository READMEs to the new list.
>>
>> This vote will be performed in one stage:
>>    - This letter will be published on dev@ and remain open for at least
>> 72 hours and at least 3 (+1) PPMC votes or a majority of (+1) are acquired.
>> All PPMC members including Mentors can vote.
>>
>> Please vote accordingly:
>>
>> [ ] +1 approve
>> [ ] +0 no opinion
>> [ ] -1 disapprove with the reason
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lee Rhodes
>> leerho@apache.org
>>
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Re: [VOTE-PROPOSAL] Proposal to deprecate Google Groups

[leerho <le...@gmail.com>]

Hi Dave,

I collected stats for 2019 and the average # of posts per month is 15 with
wide variability from 0 to 50 per month.

One concern about consolidating the traffic onto dev@ is that I think a
number of new users might hesitate to submit naive questions on the
developer list because they don't view themselves as developers and don't
want to intrude.  A list labeled as "users" clearly includes new users and
I think would be more friendly.

A second issue is separation of traffic.  For example, our science members
are not in a position to support new users and I would prefer to give them
the option of not signing up for the users@ traffic.

An additional thought is that if we set up the users@ list now we would not
have to migrate them out of the dev@ list later and we wouldn't have to
have all our users do yet another migration.

I'd like to hear from some other folks about these issues.

Lee.







On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 10:50 AM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi -
>
> What types of discussions are frequent on the google group? How many posts
> are typical?
>
> It might be good to coalesce the community on the dev@ until there are
> clearly enough users and volume of email to need a users@ mailing list.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Feb 6, 2020, at 1:22 PM, leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> This is a call for a vote on the following:
>
> I propose that we deprecate the Google Groups
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sketches-user> forum and direct
> users to a newly created users@ email list.
>
> The steps would be as follows:
>
>    1. Create a new users@datasketches.apache.org email list.
>    2. Clearly mark the existing Google Groups site as deprecated and
>    direct users to the new list.
>    3. Update all references to the Google Groups site on our web site and
>    repository READMEs to the new list.
>
> This vote will be performed in one stage:
>    - This letter will be published on dev@ and remain open for at least
> 72 hours and at least 3 (+1) PPMC votes or a majority of (+1) are acquired.
> All PPMC members including Mentors can vote.
>
> Please vote accordingly:
>
> [ ] +1 approve
> [ ] +0 no opinion
> [ ] -1 disapprove with the reason
>
> Thanks,
> Lee Rhodes
> leerho@apache.org
>
>
>