You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com> on 2017/08/30 23:03:49 UTC
Modification of The Apache License
Greetings, all.
The License FAQ mentions that others may modify the Foundation's CLAs:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#CLA-Usage
However, I do not see any parallel permission for the text of The Apache
License itself.
May others freely derive from the Apache 2.0 terms? I am very
mindful that the Apache trademark looms large for those who might
confuse or deceive others by passing off modifications as the
standardized original.
Best,
K
--
Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Modification of The Apache License
Posted by Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com>.
Craig,
Thanks again so much for responding so quickly.
I greatly appreciate the addition you've made.
It's an upgrade on the status quo, clarifying what
terms apply to the license itself. But I don't
think it addresses the strangeness of the license
conditions as applied to a modified license.
Following the existing pattern of the notice on
the CLAs would:
MAY I RE-USE (AND MODIFY) THE APACHE LICENSE
FOR MY OWN PURPOSES?
Yes, you are allowed to use and modify it. You
just can't hold the ASF legally responsible if
the license is not exactly what you intend it
to be. We recommend that you obtain your own
legal advice so you know exactly what you are
getting yourself into.
Also, if you adopt the license for your
purposes, you have to make sure that the name
'Apache License' or any confusingly similar
references do not appear in your terms (except
to note that your terms are derived and differ
from the original provided by the ASF).
I hope you don't see my providing language as
presumptuous. Apache can and should keep its own,
very excellent, counsel on the matter. Especially
if there's been no prior decision on the matter by
folks legal.
Best,
K
--
Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Modification of The Apache License
Posted by Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com>.
Craig,
Thanks yet again.
I like this language very much. But again, I'd
encourage you to shop it internally with ASF's
very capable lawyers.
I don't want to be seen as walking the ASF into
any kind of public statement with legal
consequences out of my own interest. My own
interests are secondary to the greater good of the
ASF. I have a feeling we're aligned, but that's
not for me to say or advise.
Very best,
K
--
Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Modification of The Apache License
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
Hi K,
Last try: http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#mod-license
Craig
> On Aug 30, 2017, at 5:07 PM, Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi K,
>
>> On Aug 30, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com> wrote:
>>
>> Craig,
>>
>> Thank you for your fast and helpful reply.
>>
>> I see the footer on the license page, but fear
>> that that Apache-for-Apache makes a mighty strange
>> loop. For example, I wonder whether the
>> change of title that you proposed would adequately
>> address the Section 4 redistribution conditions.
>> Would one have to retain the Apache copyright
>> notice in the modified, note changes, and provide
>> a copy of the original, unmodified Apache License
>> along with one's modified version?
>>
>> I would vastly prefer to find a public statement
>> along the lines of the one for the CLAs somewhere
>> else in the Apache-sphere, if one has been made.
>> Perhaps not.
>
> Does this satisfy? http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#mod-license
>
> This issue has come up before, and hopefully this will answer future questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Craig
>>
>> For those who may be interested in law form
>> licensing, as an aside and _not_ as a suggestion
>> as to what the Foundation should do here:
>>
>> http://www.adamsdrafting.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Copyright-NYLJ-8.23.06.pdf
>>
>> https://github.com/kemitchell/law-form-license/blob/master/LICENSE
>>
>> Altogether, the concept of law form copyright
>> gives me the heebie-jeebies. Alas, duty compels.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> K
>>
>> --
>> Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Modification of The Apache License
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
Hi K,
> On Aug 30, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com> wrote:
>
> Craig,
>
> Thank you for your fast and helpful reply.
>
> I see the footer on the license page, but fear
> that that Apache-for-Apache makes a mighty strange
> loop. For example, I wonder whether the
> change of title that you proposed would adequately
> address the Section 4 redistribution conditions.
> Would one have to retain the Apache copyright
> notice in the modified, note changes, and provide
> a copy of the original, unmodified Apache License
> along with one's modified version?
>
> I would vastly prefer to find a public statement
> along the lines of the one for the CLAs somewhere
> else in the Apache-sphere, if one has been made.
> Perhaps not.
Does this satisfy? http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#mod-license
This issue has come up before, and hopefully this will answer future questions.
Regards,
Craig
>
> For those who may be interested in law form
> licensing, as an aside and _not_ as a suggestion
> as to what the Foundation should do here:
>
> http://www.adamsdrafting.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Copyright-NYLJ-8.23.06.pdf
>
> https://github.com/kemitchell/law-form-license/blob/master/LICENSE
>
> Altogether, the concept of law form copyright
> gives me the heebie-jeebies. Alas, duty compels.
>
> Best,
>
> K
>
> --
> Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Modification of The Apache License
Posted by Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com>.
Craig,
Thank you for your fast and helpful reply.
I see the footer on the license page, but fear
that that Apache-for-Apache makes a mighty strange
loop. For example, I wonder whether the
change of title that you proposed would adequately
address the Section 4 redistribution conditions.
Would one have to retain the Apache copyright
notice in the modified, note changes, and provide
a copy of the original, unmodified Apache License
along with one's modified version?
I would vastly prefer to find a public statement
along the lines of the one for the CLAs somewhere
else in the Apache-sphere, if one has been made.
Perhaps not.
For those who may be interested in law form
licensing, as an aside and _not_ as a suggestion
as to what the Foundation should do here:
http://www.adamsdrafting.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Copyright-NYLJ-8.23.06.pdf
https://github.com/kemitchell/law-form-license/blob/master/LICENSE
Altogether, the concept of law form copyright
gives me the heebie-jeebies. Alas, duty compels.
Best,
K
--
Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Modification of The Apache License
Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.
Hi K,
Please note that this is not a forum for legal advice.
The license itself is distributed under the terms of the license.
Look at the page http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html
At the bottom, "Copyright © 2017 The Apache Software Foundation, Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0."
So, you can adapt the license itself or any of its parts, but as you have noted that you are very mindful, if you make changes, be sure that it is clear that your license is not confused with the Apache license. Specifically, your license should change:
Apache License
Version 2.0, January 2004
http://www.apache.org/licenses/
to something else, like:
Kyle Mitchell License
Version 0.9, August 2017
http://kyle.mitchell.com/licenses/KyleLicense.html
Regards,
Craig
> On Aug 30, 2017, at 4:03 PM, Kyle Mitchell <ky...@kemitchell.com> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all.
>
> The License FAQ mentions that others may modify the Foundation's CLAs:
>
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#CLA-Usage
>
> However, I do not see any parallel permission for the text of The Apache
> License itself.
>
> May others freely derive from the Apache 2.0 terms? I am very
> mindful that the Apache trademark looms large for those who might
> confuse or deceive others by passing off modifications as the
> standardized original.
>
> Best,
>
> K
>
> --
> Kyle Mitchell, attorney // Oakland // (510) 712 - 0933
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org