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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za> on 2007/03/08 15:29:26 UTC

BLOG via Cocoon?

Hi
 
Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
 
Thanks
Derek

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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by "J.D. Williams" <jd...@austin.rr.com>.
Strictly speaking this last comment is accurate, perhaps. 

However, 90 percent of the blogs one sees online have a feature for
readers to comment, so no, Derek does not want a Web forum, he wants a
blog that works like the vast majority of blogs on the Interwebs.

On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:57 +0100, Tobia wrote:
> Derek Hohls wrote:
> > it does not have functionality for readers of the blog to add
> > comments... which really defeats the whole purpose of having a blog!  
> 
> That's questionable.  The purpose of a blog ("web-log" or diary) is that
> of expressing your own thoughts to the world.  Accepting and displaying
> the readers' comments with a web interface is a nice feature, on blogs
> as well as other types of websites, but it's by no means necessary.
> 
> Maybe what you're after is a web forum, not a blog?
> 
> 
> Tobia
> 
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Tobia
 
Have to disagree - the majority of blogs (and certainly all 
blogging software should have this as an option) do allow 
comments; the reason is that they are essentially opinion 
pieces - you state your issue (point-of-view) and readers 
respond with their views.
 
If you just wanted to express your own views - with no
response possible - you may as well just have a web page.
 
A web forum is a different beast altogether - primarily 
designed for Q&A.
 
Derek

>>> Tobia <to...@linux.it> 2007/03/09 12:57 PM >>>

Derek Hohls wrote:
> it does not have functionality for readers of the blog to add
> comments... which really defeats the whole purpose of having a blog! 


That's questionable.  The purpose of a blog ("web-log" or diary) is
that
of expressing your own thoughts to the world.  Accepting and
displaying
the readers' comments with a web interface is a nice feature, on blogs
as well as other types of websites, but it's by no means necessary.

Maybe what you're after is a web forum, not a blog?


Tobia

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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Tobia <to...@linux.it>.
Derek Hohls wrote:
> it does not have functionality for readers of the blog to add
> comments... which really defeats the whole purpose of having a blog!  

That's questionable.  The purpose of a blog ("web-log" or diary) is that
of expressing your own thoughts to the world.  Accepting and displaying
the readers' comments with a web interface is a nice feature, on blogs
as well as other types of websites, but it's by no means necessary.

Maybe what you're after is a web forum, not a blog?


Tobia

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RE: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
I have this part sorted out now... turns out that IE does not
like XHTML, so I have explicitly set the:
<map:serialize  type="html"/>
 
Now that it is working, I see that, unfortunately, while the 
basic "add a blog entry" is there, it does not have functionality
for readers of the blog to add comments... which really defeats
the whole purpose of having a blog!  
 
Has anyone expanded the sample to add in a reader comment
option?  Or should I abandon Cocoon-based blogging and look
elsewhere?
 
Thanks
Derek

>>> "Derek Hohls" <DH...@csir.co.za> 2007/03/09 08:23 AM >>>

Jeroen

I am running C2.1.8.  When I try and access the Linotype sample,
I simple get a page filled with XML.  

ie. http://localhost:8888/samples/blocks/linotype/ 
give me a page starting:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
...
<head>
  <title>Stefano's Linotype</title> 
  <meta name="DC.title" content="Stefano's Linotype" />

Is there something  I need to do or setup in order to 
access this functionality?

And where is the best place to find documentation; the
only "official" place I could see was at:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/BlockDescriptions 

Thanks!
Derek

>>> "Jeroen Reijn" <j....@hippo.nl> 2007/03/08 04:56:56 PM >>>

Hi Derek,

did you already have a look at linotype block? 
You can find it in the samples of the Cocoon distribution.

Regards,

Jeroen Reijn

    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- 
    Van: Derek Hohls [mailto:DHohls@csir.co.za] 
    Verzonden: do 8-3-2007 15:29 
    Aan: users@cocoon.apache.org 
    CC: 
    Onderwerp: BLOG via Cocoon?
    
    

    Hi
    
    Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
    framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
    
    Thanks
    Derek
    
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RE: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Jeroen
 
I am running C2.1.8.  When I try and access the Linotype sample,
I simple get a page filled with XML.  
 
ie. http://localhost:8888/samples/blocks/linotype/ 
give me a page starting:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>
...
 <head>
  <title>Stefano's Linotype</title> 
  <meta name="DC.title" content="Stefano's Linotype" />
 
Is there something  I need to do or setup in order to 
access this functionality?

And where is the best place to find documentation; the
only "official" place I could see was at:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/BlockDescriptions 
 
Thanks!
Derek

>>> "Jeroen Reijn" <j....@hippo.nl> 2007/03/08 04:56:56 PM >>>

Hi Derek,

did you already have a look at linotype block? 
You can find it in the samples of the Cocoon distribution.

Regards,

Jeroen Reijn

    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- 
    Van: Derek Hohls [mailto:DHohls@csir.co.za] 
    Verzonden: do 8-3-2007 15:29 
    Aan: users@cocoon.apache.org 
    CC: 
    Onderwerp: BLOG via Cocoon?
    
    

    Hi
    
    Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
    framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
    
    Thanks
    Derek
    
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RE: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Jeroen Reijn <j....@hippo.nl>.
Hi Derek,
 
did you already have a look at linotype block? 
You can find it in the samples of the Cocoon distribution.
 
Regards,
 
Jeroen Reijn

	-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- 
	Van: Derek Hohls [mailto:DHohls@csir.co.za] 
	Verzonden: do 8-3-2007 15:29 
	Aan: users@cocoon.apache.org 
	CC: 
	Onderwerp: BLOG via Cocoon?
	
	

	Hi
	
	Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
	framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
	
	Thanks
	Derek
	
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Hans

That looks interesting.  two questions:
(1) Is the source code for the blog-part available?
(2) Have you made provision for readers to comment on your 
    blog entries?
 
Thanks
Derek

>>> "Jonas Lundberg" <my...@gmail.com> 2007/03/10 05:00:02 PM
>>>

Hi,
yes, I have implemented a blog system, but it still has performance
issues that makes it less... nice... at the moment. It is implemented
in Cocoon/eXist.

I have described my approach in a paper, that you can read here:
http://www.ida.liu.se/~jonlu/publications/permalink-207.htm 
(My home page at that site (not the entire site) is also done in my
blog system.)

There are two issues with Cocoon that I have not been able to resolve,
that makes it less ideal for XML based web sites in general, and for
my system in particular:
1. It is extremely difficult to import XML from other sites into
Cocoon, since one cannot just use an ordinary pipeline (the other site
might be down, with unfortunate consequences). Imported XML is nice to
have in blogs, to present information from elsewhere.

2. One cannot use time that the server is idle to execute pipelines
that do some cleanup tasks - all pipelines seem to start with a
request, not with the lack of a request. But that might be outside the
scope of Cocoon.

I might be wrong on both points. In fact, I wouldn't mind being wrong
about it...

Hans


On 3/8/07, Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>
> Thanks
> Derek
>




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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Jonas Lundberg wrote:
> Hi,
> yes, I have implemented a blog system, but it still has performance
> issues that makes it less... nice... at the moment. It is implemented
> in Cocoon/eXist.

Reminds me of CocoBlog

   http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=55003


> I have described my approach in a paper, that you can read here:
> http://www.ida.liu.se/~jonlu/publications/permalink-207.htm
> (My home page at that site (not the entire site) is also done in my
> blog system.)
> 
> There are two issues with Cocoon that I have not been able to resolve,
> that makes it less ideal for XML based web sites in general, and for
> my system in particular:
> 1. It is extremely difficult to import XML from other sites into
> Cocoon, since one cannot just use an ordinary pipeline (the other site
> might be down, with unfortunate consequences). Imported XML is nice to
> have in blogs, to present information from elsewhere.
> 
> 2. One cannot use time that the server is idle to execute pipelines
> that do some cleanup tasks - all pipelines seem to start with a
> request, not with the lack of a request. But that might be outside the
> scope of Cocoon.

PS RunnableManager is a good lightweight alternative to cron block.

Vadim


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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Grzegorz Kossakowski <gr...@tuffmail.com>.
Jonas Lundberg napisaƂ(a):
> <snip/>
>
> There are two issues with Cocoon that I have not been able to resolve,
> that makes it less ideal for XML based web sites in general, and for
> my system in particular:
> 1. It is extremely difficult to import XML from other sites into
> Cocoon, since one cannot just use an ordinary pipeline (the other site
> might be down, with unfortunate consequences). Imported XML is nice to
> have in blogs, to present information from elsewhere.
I guess that cached: source[1] could be easily adapted to your needs.
You would only have to change it that way it keeps cached content while
target url is unreachable independently from expiration times.
>
> 2. One cannot use time that the server is idle to execute pipelines
> that do some cleanup tasks - all pipelines seem to start with a
> request, not with the lack of a request. But that might be outside the
> scope of Cocoon.
What about Cron block? You can find examples how to use it in block's
samples.

[1]
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/apidocs/org/apache/cocoon/components/source/impl/CachingSourceFactory.html

-- 
Grzegorz Kossakowski

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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Jonas Lundberg <my...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
yes, I have implemented a blog system, but it still has performance
issues that makes it less... nice... at the moment. It is implemented
in Cocoon/eXist.

I have described my approach in a paper, that you can read here:
http://www.ida.liu.se/~jonlu/publications/permalink-207.htm
(My home page at that site (not the entire site) is also done in my
blog system.)

There are two issues with Cocoon that I have not been able to resolve,
that makes it less ideal for XML based web sites in general, and for
my system in particular:
1. It is extremely difficult to import XML from other sites into
Cocoon, since one cannot just use an ordinary pipeline (the other site
might be down, with unfortunate consequences). Imported XML is nice to
have in blogs, to present information from elsewhere.

2. One cannot use time that the server is idle to execute pipelines
that do some cleanup tasks - all pipelines seem to start with a
request, not with the lack of a request. But that might be outside the
scope of Cocoon.

I might be wrong on both points. In fact, I wouldn't mind being wrong
about it...

Hans


On 3/8/07, Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>
> Thanks
> Derek
>
> --
> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright, terms and conditions and
> e-mail legal notice. Views expressed herein do not necessarily represent the
> views of the CSIR.
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Andrew
 
Thanks, but no.  I have looked at RoR before and much prefer
Cocoon!
 
Derek

>>> "Andrew Madu" <an...@gmail.com> 2007/03/09 02:31:20 AM >>>

Hi,
have you had a look at RubyOnRails?!!

http://www.rubyonrails.org/screencasts

--
Regards

Andrew

On 08/03/07, Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za> wrote:Hi

Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?

Thanks
Derek

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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Andrew Madu <an...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
have you had a look at RubyOnRails?!!

http://www.rubyonrails.org/screencasts

--
Regards

Andrew

On 08/03/07, Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>
> Thanks
> Derek
>
> --
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> e-mail legal notice. Views expressed herein do not necessarily represent
> the
> views of the CSIR.
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Michael
 
Thanks for this suggestion (and to others who also made it).
I appreciate that Lenya is a solid CMS, and I like the fact that
its based on Cocoon.  But I was really hoping to avoid the 
extra hassle that comes form learning, installing and supporting
another tool (esp. since I have to ask very nicely for that support
on our servers...).  But if POC (plain ol' cocoon) cannot do the job
then I will look at this!
 
Derek

>>> Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> 2007/03/10 11:55:27 PM
>>>

Derek Hohls wrote:

>Steve
> 
>Thanks for the info.  I was hoping not to have to go via a 
>3rd party route at this stage, as my needs are fairly simple
>(though I do need provision for comments).
>  
>

you might want to take a look at the Lenya Blog publication, which is 
based on Cocoon ;-)

Michael

> 
>Derek
>
>  
>
>>>>Stephen Winnall <st...@winnall.ch> 2007/03/08 06:03:49 PM >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>I pipe a Roller blog through Cocoon. It's a fairly low-tech approach:

>
>I run a separate blog server and grab the Roller pages using the  
>JTidy generator. The major problems are in mapping the URLs in Roller

>
>onto the rest of my site and in fixing the L&F of Roller to match the

>
>rest of the site. The latter required changes to Roller's Velocity  
>templates and adaptation of the Cocoon sitemaps. I haven't fixed form

>
>I/O from/to Roller yet, so people can't comment on my pronouncements;

>
>and I edit using a client (Ecto) rather than a web interface.
>
>I'm fairly pleased with the result, but it's a stable hack rather  
>than a product at the moment.
>
>Steve
>
>On 8 Mar 2007, at 15:29, Derek Hohls wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi
>>
>>Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
>>framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Derek
>>
>>-- 
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Derek Hohls wrote:

>Steve
> 
>Thanks for the info.  I was hoping not to have to go via a 
>3rd party route at this stage, as my needs are fairly simple
>(though I do need provision for comments).
>  
>

you might want to take a look at the Lenya Blog publication, which is 
based on Cocoon ;-)

Michael

> 
>Derek
>
>  
>
>>>>Stephen Winnall <st...@winnall.ch> 2007/03/08 06:03:49 PM >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>I pipe a Roller blog through Cocoon. It's a fairly low-tech approach: 
>
>I run a separate blog server and grab the Roller pages using the  
>JTidy generator. The major problems are in mapping the URLs in Roller 
>
>onto the rest of my site and in fixing the L&F of Roller to match the 
>
>rest of the site. The latter required changes to Roller's Velocity  
>templates and adaptation of the Cocoon sitemaps. I haven't fixed form 
>
>I/O from/to Roller yet, so people can't comment on my pronouncements; 
>
>and I edit using a client (Ecto) rather than a web interface.
>
>I'm fairly pleased with the result, but it's a stable hack rather  
>than a product at the moment.
>
>Steve
>
>On 8 Mar 2007, at 15:29, Derek Hohls wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi
>>
>>Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
>>framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Derek
>>
>>-- 
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>>views of the CSIR.
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Wyona      -   Open Source Content Management   -    Apache Lenya
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Steve
 
Thanks for the info.  I was hoping not to have to go via a 
3rd party route at this stage, as my needs are fairly simple
(though I do need provision for comments).
 
Derek

>>> Stephen Winnall <st...@winnall.ch> 2007/03/08 06:03:49 PM >>>

I pipe a Roller blog through Cocoon. It's a fairly low-tech approach: 

I run a separate blog server and grab the Roller pages using the  
JTidy generator. The major problems are in mapping the URLs in Roller 

onto the rest of my site and in fixing the L&F of Roller to match the 

rest of the site. The latter required changes to Roller's Velocity  
templates and adaptation of the Cocoon sitemaps. I haven't fixed form 

I/O from/to Roller yet, so people can't comment on my pronouncements; 

and I edit using a client (Ecto) rather than a web interface.

I'm fairly pleased with the result, but it's a stable hack rather  
than a product at the moment.

Steve

On 8 Mar 2007, at 15:29, Derek Hohls wrote:

> Hi
>
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>
> Thanks
> Derek
>
> -- 
> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright, terms and  
> conditions and
> e-mail legal notice. Views expressed herein do not necessarily  
> represent the
> views of the CSIR.
>
> CSIR E-mail Legal Notice
> http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_eMail_Legal_Notice.html 
>
> CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions
> http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_Copyright.html 
>
> For electronic copies of the CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions  
> and the CSIR
> Legal Notice send a blank message with REQUEST LEGAL in the subject 

> line to
> CallCentre@csir.co.za.
>
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by  
> MailScanner,
> and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
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views of the CSIR.
 
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Stephen Winnall <st...@winnall.ch>.
I pipe a Roller blog through Cocoon. It's a fairly low-tech approach:  
I run a separate blog server and grab the Roller pages using the  
JTidy generator. The major problems are in mapping the URLs in Roller  
onto the rest of my site and in fixing the L&F of Roller to match the  
rest of the site. The latter required changes to Roller's Velocity  
templates and adaptation of the Cocoon sitemaps. I haven't fixed form  
I/O from/to Roller yet, so people can't comment on my pronouncements;  
and I edit using a client (Ecto) rather than a web interface.

I'm fairly pleased with the result, but it's a stable hack rather  
than a product at the moment.

Steve

On 8 Mar 2007, at 15:29, Derek Hohls wrote:

> Hi
>
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?
>
> Thanks
> Derek
>
> -- 
> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright, terms and  
> conditions and
> e-mail legal notice. Views expressed herein do not necessarily  
> represent the
> views of the CSIR.
>
> CSIR E-mail Legal Notice
> http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_eMail_Legal_Notice.html
>
> CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions
> http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_Copyright.html
>
> For electronic copies of the CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions  
> and the CSIR
> Legal Notice send a blank message with REQUEST LEGAL in the subject  
> line to
> CallCentre@csir.co.za.
>
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by  
> MailScanner,
> and is believed to be clean.
>
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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
Peter
 
Interesting blog!!
 
Thanks for sharing the code - much appreciated... however, 
as I have said already on this thread (probably ad nauseam)
I really need a tool that allows for reader's comments... not
only because I believe that is a crucial part of a blog but,
even more important, this is a feature request given to me!
 
Any plans to implement such an option?
 
Thanks
Derek

>>> Peter Flynn <pf...@ucc.ie> 2007/03/12 11:29 AM >>>

Derek Hohls wrote:
> Hi
>  
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?

I wrote my own: http://silmaril.ie/cgi-bin/blog 
Fairly crude, but it does things the way I wanted them.
Code at http://www.silmaril.ie/penguinblog/ 

///Peter

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Re: BLOG via Cocoon?

Posted by Peter Flynn <pf...@ucc.ie>.
Derek Hohls wrote:
> Hi
>  
> Has anyone implemented a blog-type system via a Cocoon
> framework, and can share any ideas or approaches?

I wrote my own: http://silmaril.ie/cgi-bin/blog
Fairly crude, but it does things the way I wanted them.
Code at http://www.silmaril.ie/penguinblog/

///Peter

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