Re: [External] Re: [DISCUSS] The future of mod_perl

["Kevin A. McGrail" <km...@pccc.com>]

Jim, mod_perl, while a module, is it's own Top Level Project at the 
Apache Software Foundation.  So the Project Management Committee (PMC) 
of the mod_perl project determines how things go. For other modules that 
aren't their own project, they fall under the Apache HTTPD PMC's domain.

Right now, there has been concern that there isn't the minimum level of 
support for a PMC at mod_perl that can suitably handle security concerns 
and project decisions.  If there are 3 PMC members who +1 they are here 
and can handle decisions and address security concerns in a timely 
manner, then that's all this thread is trying to achieve.

The ASF as an organization follows a bottom-up organizational structure 
so if the PMC can drive itself, the organization wants that to happen.  
It sounds like we might have 3 PMC +1's.

Regards,
KAM

On 3/18/2021 2:06 AM, Jim Albert wrote:
> Thanks for the thorough response, Fred.
> At some point before mod_perl stops having any development support 
> would you expect an End Of Life announcement with reasonable advanced 
> notice?
>
> I haven't followed discussion or announcements on other Apache modules 
> to know how modules normally reach their end. Is it structured or do 
> some just suddenly disappear?
>
> Jim
>
>
> On 3/18/2021 1:05 AM, Fred Moyer wrote:
>> Longer response here.
>>
>> So I'm happy to be another active PMC member still involved. As
>> someone with a growing family, my time is limited, but not too much to
>> review and lend a +1 or feedback. I think that may be the case for a
>> few of the folks on this list. I'd like to see Steve Hay lead the
>> future of mod_perl project as I know a lot of the old guard have
>> personal duties now that take precedence.
>>
>> mod_perl is not a new Apache project. It's approaching two decades,
>> close to the age of the Apache httpd project itself. It was a core
>> driver in developing my career in software, as well as many key
>> professional relationships associated there. I remember a *lot* of
>> weekends early in my career hacking on mod_perl for *fun* - the coding
>> was the reward, as well as the community feedback.
>>
>> There are still many shops out there using mod_perl, but not much new
>> development, which makes sense. The project is in maintenance mode,
>> and there are developers willing to support needed releases as Adam
>> mentioned. If you are developing a new project, you should not use
>> mod_perl. But if you are maintaining legacy mod_perl infrastructure,
>> we will not leave you behind.
>>
>> The open source project model has changed significantly, especially
>> over the last ten years. IMHO, while the ASF model was instrumental in
>> the rise of open source projects into commercial environments, more
>> recent approaches such as those supported by the Linux Foundation
>> (which is *definitely* more commercially supported, and reflected by
>> the platitude of industry sponsors and resources) have achieved
>> greater growth levels in the short term. Will they still be here in 20
>> years? No idea.
>>
>> A takeaway from my reflections there is that the ASF can benefit from
>> a bit less formality in structure to keep up with the new kids on the
>> block. I'm just a mostly inactive PMC member, but I think it's clear
>> that the project rules are preventing us keeping up with the needed
>> leadership changes.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 8:02 PM Fred Moyer <fr...@redhotpenguin.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> Happy to continue being a maintainer. Longer response coming soon :)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:39 PM Adam Prime <ad...@utoronto.ca> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I think if you want to discuss alternatives, then a new thread 
>>>> would be
>>>> the place to do that.
>>>>
>>>> With regards to plug being pulled, I think that it is up to the
>>>> community if, when, and how that happens. That's what the point of 
>>>> this
>>>> thread is. If there aren't people that are committed enough to the
>>>> project for whatever reason to step up and keep it from going to the
>>>> attic, then that's what will happen.
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/17/2021 9:50 PM, Jim Albert wrote:
>>>>> Not that I want to be the guy that says it sounds like we'll be 
>>>>> pulling
>>>>> the mod_perl plug at any time the right scenario arises, but is it
>>>>> reasonable to have a discussion here on mod_perl alternatives inline
>>>>> with the various means of using mod_perl from the low level means of
>>>>> interfacing with the Apache server to the quick and dirty stuff
>>>>> (ModPerl::PerlRun, I believe to keep Perl and modules in memory).
>>>>>
>>>>> For those drawing the same conclusions from this thread as me, 
>>>>> I've seen
>>>>> mod_fcgid proposed as an alternative, but I haven't yet played 
>>>>> with it.
>>>>> Anyone with similar thoughts would ideally be looking for 
>>>>> something that
>>>>> doesn't require months of redeveloping to a proposed replacement to
>>>>> mod_perl.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like mod_perl and it does a good job for what I use it for, but 
>>>>> if we
>>>>> have no one developing, it sounds like we're waiting for the 
>>>>> catalyst to
>>>>> come along that puts and end to it. EG.. some future Apache
>>>>> incompatibility.  I'd really like someone with mod_perl authority to
>>>>> tell me I'm wrong, but my take on Adam's reply pretty much leaves me
>>>>> with that conclusion. I don't see another way to draw a better 
>>>>> conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>
-- 


	

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