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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com> on 2007/12/31 14:47:47 UTC
[POLICY] Streamline Setting+Up+a+New+Podling policy
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
falls somewhere between guideance and policy. given that process
mistakes have been made (eg.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1341) IMHO it would be
better to create a guide for this part of the process and streamline
this section.
a radical patch (below) would strip out all policy. for want of a
better name, i've termed this guide 'bootstrap' (creation is already
used for another part of the process) but suggestions welcomed.
as discussed (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200712.mbox/%3cf470f68e0712290934y31e65c26qe8d9758f2d3db5e1@mail.gmail.com%3e),
though the current policy suggests that the mentors should do most of
the work this is probably unnecessary since the IPMC has already
approved it. so, i'd like to see this bit of policy removed anyway.
the current policy lists mandates required infrastructure tasks
(mailing lists, repository). i'm not sure that this is needed at all.
if it is then it would be better to simply to ask that all proposed
resources are created.
the other bit is about the project status page. perhaps this does need
to be explicitly stated. if so then i think it would be better to
create this page as part of the 'creation' part of the process.
opinions?
- robert
Index: site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml
===================================================================
--- site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml (revision 607711)
+++ site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml (working copy)
@@ -288,30 +288,9 @@
<title>Setting Up a New Podling</title>
<p>
Once a proposal has been <a href='#Acceptance+By+Incubator'>accepted</a>
-and the podling <a href='#Creation+of+Podling'>created</a>
-a <a href='#Mentor'>Mentor</a> SHOULD initiate the creation of:
+and the podling <a href='#Creation+of+Podling'>created</a>,
+the <a href='#Mentor'>Mentors</a> SHALL <a
href='/guides/bootstrap.html'>bootstrap</a> the podling.
</p>
- <ul>
- <li>the <a href='#Ongoing+Activities'>project status</a>
page;</li>
- <li>the mailing lists;</li>
- <li>the repository space;</li>
- </ul>
- <p>
- Your project's mentors are able to undertake many of the setup
- tasks. See notes about how to
- <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/reporting-issues.html">request
project resources</a>
- such as new committer accounts and new mailing lists.
- (Note that a committer account will not be created
- <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#newcommitter">until the
- Contributor License Agreement (CLA) has been recorded.</a>)
- </p>
- <p>
- Your project committers/PPMC members need to become familiar with
- the <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/">ASF Infrastructure
information</a>
- and in particular the
- <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/#pmc">PMC</a> notes.
- Also see the <a href="../guides/pmc.html">Incubator PMC Guide</a>.
- </p>
</section>
<section id="Ongoing+Activities">
<title>Ongoing Activities</title>
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Re: [POLICY] Streamline Setting+Up+a+New+Podling policy
Posted by Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On Dec 31, 2007 9:14 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Dec 31, 2007, at 5:47 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
>
> > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> > Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
> > falls somewhere between guideance and policy. given that process
> > mistakes have been made (eg.
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1341)
>
> This issue points out that even members of the incubator and members
> of the foundation aren't always clear on what parts of infrastructure
> are accessible to whom.
ATM apache's in the middle of a bit of a transition so it's not very coherent
> > IMHO it would be
> > better to create a guide for this part of the process and streamline
> > this section.
>
> +1
> >
> > a radical patch (below) would strip out all policy. for want of a
> > better name, i've termed this guide 'bootstrap' (creation is already
22> > used for another part of the process) but suggestions welcomed.
>
> Only after a guide with this information is ready.
+1
> > as discussed (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-
> > general/200712.mbox/%
> > 3cf470f68e0712290934y31e65c26qe8d9758f2d3db5e1@mail.gmail.com%3e),
> > though the current policy suggests that the mentors should do most of
> > the work this is probably unnecessary since the IPMC has already
> > approved it. so, i'd like to see this bit of policy removed anyway.
> >
> > the current policy lists mandates required infrastructure tasks
> > (mailing lists, repository). i'm not sure that this is needed at all.
> > if it is then it would be better to simply to ask that all proposed
> > resources are created.
>
> I do think that the new guide should make clear what tasks need to be
> done (not all of the tasks are listed). And what karma each task needs.
IMO we need to move away from karma and onto roles
for example, i have archive karma since i helped to set up the mirrors
back in the early noughties. i have this karma since i'm part of the
infra team. bulk transferring all the existing incubator to the
archives is really an infra task and i'm doing it with my infra hat
on. lots of members who've been around from the early noughties have
had lots of roles over the years. so they end up with lots of karma
and this confuses people into thinking that there are lots of stuff
that members are required for.
some tasks required infra, some the incubator chair, some an IPMCer,
some any committer. most have some sort of process requirements. i'm
inclined to recommend that JIRA is used for coordination. whilst i'm
bringing in RAT, i'm trying to preserve a record of what was needed. i
hope that this will help in creating the documentation.
> There is a guide http://incubator.apache.org/guides/projects.html
> that could be used for the purpose. It's (strangely) linked from the
> left navbar under Podling Guides: Podling Mentor.
that is a little odd
don't really use the term project anymore
rename to mentor.html?
> It would be good if
> we update this guide to be as complete as the http://
> incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html guide.
>
> WDYT?
+1
get cracking :-)
- robert
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Re: [POLICY] Streamline Setting+Up+a+New+Podling policy
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi,
On Dec 31, 2007, at 5:47 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Setting+Up+a+New+Podling
> falls somewhere between guideance and policy. given that process
> mistakes have been made (eg.
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1341)
This issue points out that even members of the incubator and members
of the foundation aren't always clear on what parts of infrastructure
are accessible to whom.
> IMHO it would be
> better to create a guide for this part of the process and streamline
> this section.
+1
>
> a radical patch (below) would strip out all policy. for want of a
> better name, i've termed this guide 'bootstrap' (creation is already
> used for another part of the process) but suggestions welcomed.
Only after a guide with this information is ready.
>
> as discussed (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-
> general/200712.mbox/%
> 3cf470f68e0712290934y31e65c26qe8d9758f2d3db5e1@mail.gmail.com%3e),
> though the current policy suggests that the mentors should do most of
> the work this is probably unnecessary since the IPMC has already
> approved it. so, i'd like to see this bit of policy removed anyway.
>
> the current policy lists mandates required infrastructure tasks
> (mailing lists, repository). i'm not sure that this is needed at all.
> if it is then it would be better to simply to ask that all proposed
> resources are created.
I do think that the new guide should make clear what tasks need to be
done (not all of the tasks are listed). And what karma each task needs.
There is a guide http://incubator.apache.org/guides/projects.html
that could be used for the purpose. It's (strangely) linked from the
left navbar under Podling Guides: Podling Mentor. It would be good if
we update this guide to be as complete as the http://
incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html guide.
WDYT?
Craig
>
> the other bit is about the project status page. perhaps this does need
> to be explicitly stated. if so then i think it would be better to
> create this page as part of the 'creation' part of the process.
>
> opinions?
>
> - robert
>
> Index: site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml
> ===================================================================
> --- site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml (revision
> 607711)
> +++ site-author/incubation/Incubation_Policy.xml (working copy)
> @@ -288,30 +288,9 @@
> <title>Setting Up a New Podling</title>
> <p>
> Once a proposal has been <a href='#Acceptance+By
> +Incubator'>accepted</a>
> -and the podling <a href='#Creation+of+Podling'>created</a>
> -a <a href='#Mentor'>Mentor</a> SHOULD initiate the creation of:
> +and the podling <a href='#Creation+of+Podling'>created</a>,
> +the <a href='#Mentor'>Mentors</a> SHALL <a
> href='/guides/bootstrap.html'>bootstrap</a> the podling.
> </p>
> - <ul>
> - <li>the <a href='#Ongoing+Activities'>project status</a>
> page;</li>
> - <li>the mailing lists;</li>
> - <li>the repository space;</li>
> - </ul>
> - <p>
> - Your project's mentors are able to undertake many of the
> setup
> - tasks. See notes about how to
> - <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/reporting-
> issues.html">request
> project resources</a>
> - such as new committer accounts and new mailing lists.
> - (Note that a committer account will not be created
> - <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/
> pmc.html#newcommitter">until the
> - Contributor License Agreement (CLA) has been recorded.</a>)
> - </p>
> - <p>
> - Your project committers/PPMC members need to become
> familiar with
> - the <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/">ASF Infrastructure
> information</a>
> - and in particular the
> - <a href="http://www.apache.org/dev/#pmc">PMC</a> notes.
> - Also see the <a href="../guides/pmc.html">Incubator PMC
> Guide</a>.
> - </p>
> </section>
> <section id="Ongoing+Activities">
> <title>Ongoing Activities</title>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!