Fwd: Implementing GeoSPARQL

[Adam Estrada <es...@gmail.com>]

FYI

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Adam Estrada <ge...@stanford.edu>
Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL
To: sis-private@incubator.apache.org


Mattmann,

Check out the GeoRSS page for more information on the variants of GeoRSS.
http://georss.org/Main_Page. I also think that GeoJSON via Jackson has some
merit as well. Should a middle tier "translation" class be implemented to
handle real time query responses in different formats? I do think that
GeoSPARQL is cool but there not really that many clients supporting it, are
there? Could this be a game changer for linked data? As for data size, I
would always suggest the Geonames database as a good benchmarking data set.
http://download.geonames.org/export/dump/allCountries.zip There are lots of
examples on the web on how to work with these ~9 million points.

Adam


On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Guys FYI. This is a *perfect* opportunity to get some coding
> and work done and to help reinvigorate the project. I for one
> am going to take this down a path and see where it leads. I
> hope folks can jump in, discuss, code, whatever, contribute
> however you can. And if this pans out with Andy, he's a great
> potential candidate for committership/PPMC membership in SIS.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
> > Date: January 31, 2012 10:03:13 AM PST
> > To: "sis-user@incubator.apache.org" <si...@incubator.apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL
> > Reply-To: "sis-user@incubator.apache.org" <sis-user@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
> > Hi there Andy,
> >
> > First off thanks for your email and your interest in SIS!
> > Responses inline below:
> >
> > On Jan 31, 2012, at 4:59 AM, Andy Seaborne wrote:
> >
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> I'm investigating what it would take to implement GeoSPARQL.
> >> There is already an Apache-licensed SPARQL engine in podling Jena.
> >>
> >> Of the things needed are a persistent storage layer with the right
> >> license.  Maybe the SIS project has something to use.
> >
> > Sure I think we could definitely provide some of that functionality with
> > SIS. I'll comment further below as I see you've done some research here.
> >
> >>
> >> If I understand it correctly, the qtree implementation is an in-memory
> >> structure, with the ability to read from a serialized form on disk, and
> >> to be able to write it to disk in that form.
> >
> > You got it -- it's an in-memory Quad Tree exposed by a REST web
> > service, and with the ability to update and persist that quad tree
> > by loading GeoRSS.
> >
> >>
> >> Is there any information on scaling for the qtree?  Memory usage?
> >
> > We've mainly experimented with it right now, looking at around 10k
> > data points and it's reasonably fast. We've also been trying to use it
> > on some internal JPL projects, one in particular that was looking at
> > CO2 data points at ACOS HDF data products but don't have any
> > concrete benchmarks as of yet. Andrew Hart, one of the SIS committers,
> > was working on that and perhaps would be able to talk about it more.
> >
> >>
> >> California_Restaurants.csv is 54K points - is that typical usage size?
> >
> > That was one of the use cases that was contributed by Patrick O'Leary
> > when he was still at AT&Ti and they were looking at Local Search.
> > I think that the goal in the end would be to be able to scale the QTree
> > (and other spatial data structures that we create) to "big data" use
> cases
> > that are much larger than currently, but we are starting small and then
> > growing big with an eye towards an ALv2 licensed spatial toolkit.
> >
> >>
> >> (yes ... there are other things needed as well such as conversion code
> >> between coodinate systems, format parsers, polygon code, ... but a start
> >> would be just for point data in one system :)
> >
> > You got it! I'm of a like mind and this sounds like a fun thing to work
> on.
> >
> >>
> >> An open copy of the spec is available at:
> >>
> >> http://www.w3.org/2011/02/GeoSPARQL.pdf
> >
> > I'd be happy to take a look and would be also happy to collaborate with
> you
> > on the coding aspects of this if you are interested.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> > Senior Computer Scientist
> > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> > Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> > WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>

Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL

[Adam Estrada <es...@gmail.com>]

Mattmann, you may want to check this out...
http://www.bigdata.com/whitepapers/bigdata_geospatial.pdf

Adam

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Hi Greg, and Adam,
>
> On Feb 1, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Greg Reddin wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sent from my mobile device.
> >
> > On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Adam Estrada <es...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I would love to talk with Andy about it! Andy, you wanna just talk
> through
> >> this list or offline.
> >
> > I'd like to see the discussion take place on list do we can all read It
> if possible.
>
> Big +1 on that. Adam, let's keep the discussion on list and looking
> forward to
> working ont his with you all!
>
> First step: I'll read the GeoSPARQL spec.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>

Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL

["Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>]

Hi Greg, and Adam,

On Feb 1, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Greg Reddin wrote:

> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile device.
> 
> On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Adam Estrada <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I would love to talk with Andy about it! Andy, you wanna just talk through
>> this list or offline.
> 
> I'd like to see the discussion take place on list do we can all read It if possible. 

Big +1 on that. Adam, let's keep the discussion on list and looking forward to 
working ont his with you all!

First step: I'll read the GeoSPARQL spec.

Cheers,
Chris

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

Sent from my mobile device.

On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Adam Estrada <es...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would love to talk with Andy about it! Andy, you wanna just talk through
> this list or offline.

I'd like to see the discussion take place on list do we can all read It if possible. 

Greg

Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL

[Adam Estrada <es...@gmail.com>]

I would love to talk with Andy about it! Andy, you wanna just talk through
this list or offline.

Adam

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> Thanks for sharing this discussion with the public list. I'll comment
> specifically
> below on your suggestions:
>
> On Feb 1, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Adam Estrada wrote:
>
> > FYI
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Adam Estrada <ge...@stanford.edu>
> > Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL
> > To: sis-private@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
> > Mattmann,
> >
> > Check out the GeoRSS page for more information on the variants of GeoRSS.
> > http://georss.org/Main_Page. I also think that GeoJSON via Jackson has
> some
> > merit as well. Should a middle tier "translation" class be implemented to
> > handle real time query responses in different formats?
>
> Yep I think this is definitely something that we could implement in SIS
> and that
> I think fits with the goals of the project.
>
> > I do think that
> > GeoSPARQL is cool but there not really that many clients supporting it,
> are
> > there?
>
> That would be something I'd have to defer to an RDF/OWL expert or someone
> like
> Andy to comment/answer on. I'll ask the Any23 community folks that I'm
> mentoring
> what they think too.
>
> > Could this be a game changer for linked data?
>
> I think it could be.
>
> > As for data size, I
> > would always suggest the Geonames database as a good benchmarking data
> set.
>
> +1
>
> > http://download.geonames.org/export/dump/allCountries.zip There are
> lots of
> > examples on the web on how to work with these ~9 million points.
>
> Yep, you interested in working with Andy and me on fleshing out some basic
> use
> cases and code for this?
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>

Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL

["Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for sharing this discussion with the public list. I'll comment specifically
below on your suggestions:

On Feb 1, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Adam Estrada wrote:

> FYI
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Adam Estrada <ge...@stanford.edu>
> Date: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Implementing GeoSPARQL
> To: sis-private@incubator.apache.org
> 
> 
> Mattmann,
> 
> Check out the GeoRSS page for more information on the variants of GeoRSS.
> http://georss.org/Main_Page. I also think that GeoJSON via Jackson has some
> merit as well. Should a middle tier "translation" class be implemented to
> handle real time query responses in different formats?

Yep I think this is definitely something that we could implement in SIS and that 
I think fits with the goals of the project.

> I do think that
> GeoSPARQL is cool but there not really that many clients supporting it, are
> there?

That would be something I'd have to defer to an RDF/OWL expert or someone like 
Andy to comment/answer on. I'll ask the Any23 community folks that I'm mentoring
what they think too.

> Could this be a game changer for linked data?

I think it could be. 

> As for data size, I
> would always suggest the Geonames database as a good benchmarking data set.

+1

> http://download.geonames.org/export/dump/allCountries.zip There are lots of
> examples on the web on how to work with these ~9 million points.

Yep, you interested in working with Andy and me on fleshing out some basic use
cases and code for this?

Cheers,
Chris

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++