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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by "J.Pietschmann" <j3...@yahoo.de> on 2002/06/23 19:54:37 UTC
[DTD] List attributes
Hi,
the <ol> element should have an attribute to control the
numbering, shouldn't it? I.e. whether arabic numbering,
roman numbers, lower case letters etc. The <ul> should
have an attribute controlling the bullet used.
This might be ignored in HTML, but it matters if you
generate FO.
Are there default rules how nested <ol> get numbered?
For example
<ol>
<li>
<ol>
<li>stuff
->
1.
a) stuff
or
1.
1.1 stuff
J.Pietschmann
Re: [DTD] List attributes
Posted by "J.Pietschmann" <j3...@yahoo.de>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>Well, the question applies to unordered lists too, I guess.
>
> really? why? do you want to be able to specify the bullet graphic? I
> would clearly disagree since this is a style concern.
You should know already that you wont get away that easily.
The argumentation is nearly literally the same as for ordered
lists, just replace the numberings with bullets, dashes and
stars as appropriate.
After all, you could also claim the using numbers or bullets
is a presentation issue, and drop the distinction between ol
and ul.
The underlying problem is that lists (ordered or unordered)
convey only a very generic semantic.
It is a matter of presentation whether a todo list
<todo-list>
<todo>Today...</todo>
<todo>Tomorrow...</todo>
<todo>Urgent...</todo>
</todo-list>
is formatted as a numbered list, a bulleted list or a table.
However, if a content writer is forced to use ul in absence
of a more applicable markup element, he might conceivably want
to have more control on presentational aspects to get the
intended semantics piped through. This may collide with
choices by the designer, roman numbers fit better with some
styles than others, and latin characters don't fit well if
the text uses chinese script.
There are more issues which I'll keep for later (I'm starting
to make mistakes).
J.Pietschmann
Re: [DTD] List attributes
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
"J.Pietschmann" wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >> <ol>
> >> <li>
> >> <ol>
> >> <li>stuff
> >> ->
> >> 1.
> >> a) stuff
> >>or
> >> 1.
> >> 1.1 stuff
> >
> >
> > Isn't this a style decision?
> >
> > I mean: shouldn't be the graphic designer to know *how* to format nested
> > lists?
>
> It depends. If so, you'll get *all* lists numbered either
> one or the other way.
Yes, this is correct.
> While the graphic designer should supply
> a default, I can imagine that the document writer sometimes
> wants to have a choice.
Hmmm, maybe... but I'm not that sure.
> This is especially the case for *nested* lists.
Yes, I see this.
> The
> presentation
> 1. kkkkk
> a) sdfs
> b) klrdjtlert
> 2. laber kram
> i) guru do
> ii) gnta lore
> may be conceived differently from
> 1. kkkkk
> 1.1. sdfs
> 1.2. klrdjtlert
> 2. laber kram
> 2.1. guru do
> 2.2. gnta lore
> The latter suggests the sublists adhere to a more common
> criteria than in the first case, where the sublists may
> express arbitrary independent choices.
> You can, of course introduce a new element for "hierachical
> nested lists" in order to distinguish it from arbritrary
> nested lists.
that would have redundant semantic, an attribute on <ol> seems like a
better solution to me.
Anyway, how do you envision this attribute to be? Something like
<ol numbering="latin-small|latin-big|letters|numbers">
would be enough for your needs?
> Apart from this, there is still the question
> > > Are there default rules how nested <ol> get numbered?
> Getting
> 1. kkkkk
> 1. sdfs
> 2. klrdjtlert
> 2. laber kram
> 1. guru do
> 2. gnta lore
> is a bit unimpressive, and can become confusing.
Agreed.
> Unfortunately, there are a few nested ordered lists in the
> FOP documentation, therefore I'd like to get an answer from
> the guardians of the DTDs.
> Well, the question applies to unordered lists too, I guess.
really? why? do you want to be able to specify the bullet graphic? I
would clearly disagree since this is a style concern.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [DTD] List attributes
Posted by "J.Pietschmann" <j3...@yahoo.de>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>> <ol>
>> <li>
>> <ol>
>> <li>stuff
>> ->
>> 1.
>> a) stuff
>>or
>> 1.
>> 1.1 stuff
>
>
> Isn't this a style decision?
>
> I mean: shouldn't be the graphic designer to know *how* to format nested
> lists?
It depends. If so, you'll get *all* lists numbered either
one or the other way. While the graphic designer should supply
a default, I can imagine that the document writer sometimes
wants to have a choice.
This is especially the case for *nested* lists. The
presentation
1. kkkkk
a) sdfs
b) klrdjtlert
2. laber kram
i) guru do
ii) gnta lore
may be conceived differently from
1. kkkkk
1.1. sdfs
1.2. klrdjtlert
2. laber kram
2.1. guru do
2.2. gnta lore
The latter suggests the sublists adhere to a more common
criteria than in the first case, where the sublists may
express arbitrary independent choices.
You can, of course introduce a new element for "hierachical
nested lists" in order to distinguish it from arbritrary
nested lists.
Apart from this, there is still the question
> > Are there default rules how nested <ol> get numbered?
Getting
1. kkkkk
1. sdfs
2. klrdjtlert
2. laber kram
1. guru do
2. gnta lore
is a bit unimpressive, and can become confusing.
Unfortunately, there are a few nested ordered lists in the
FOP documentation, therefore I'd like to get an answer from
the guardians of the DTDs.
Well, the question applies to unordered lists too, I guess.
J.Pietschmann
Re: [DTD] List attributes
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
"J.Pietschmann" wrote:
>
> Hi,
> the <ol> element should have an attribute to control the
> numbering, shouldn't it? I.e. whether arabic numbering,
> roman numbers, lower case letters etc. The <ul> should
> have an attribute controlling the bullet used.
> This might be ignored in HTML, but it matters if you
> generate FO.
>
> Are there default rules how nested <ol> get numbered?
> For example
> <ol>
> <li>
> <ol>
> <li>stuff
> ->
> 1.
> a) stuff
> or
> 1.
> 1.1 stuff
Isn't this a style decision?
I mean: shouldn't be the graphic designer to know *how* to format nested
lists?
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------