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Posted to jetspeed-dev@portals.apache.org by Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> on 2001/10/22 09:42:36 UTC
Jsp vs. velocity (was: Re: [PATCH] i18n for navigations)
on 10/14/01 6:13 PM, "Gunnar Rønning" <gu...@polygnosis.com> wrote:
> Well, I know Velocity/Webmacro is easy. But that doesn't invalidate
> his argument. The users might perceive the change as something
> they don't want to venture into. If that is so, and he is unable to qualify
> other solutions then a jsp solution is better.
Beyond the obvious...JSP has had quite a few published essays on why it is a
piece of crap technology. Including one that was the cover story of the Java
Developers Journal. I have also informally interviewed many other people who
have had to work with JSP and all of them agree that it sucks.
How many essays or discussions with people have you found showing any real
weakness in Velocity? So far, I haven't found any and I have been looking.
Pointing me in the right direction is appreciated.
-jon
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Re: Jsp vs. velocity (was: Re: [PATCH] i18n for navigations)
Posted by Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 10/22/01 3:17 PM, "Gunnar Rønning" <gu...@polygnosis.com> wrote:
> Well, I've read a couple of them, but choice of technology can involve
> other issues than the ones highlighted there. Maybe even PHP or a mod_perl
> system would have been better for their project ;-) It depends on the
> organization, the project and the resources available for the project.
When comparing JSP vs. Velocity (which is what the subject of this email is
about), there is really no compelling reason to go with JSP that I have seen
yet. I think that my essay does a very good job dispelling any such myths
that people have brought up.
> | When did PostgreSQL become faster than MySQL?
>
> Some time ago(around 7.0 I suspect), MySQL has been very fast as long
> as you don't have concurrent access, but it doesn't scale well with
> concurrent sessions. Check this article from Tim Perdue about the
> Sourceforge migration from MySQL to PostgreSQL :
>
> http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim20000705.php3
>
> A quote from the article :
>
> "In fact, Postgres seemed to scale 3 times higher than MySQL before
> giving any errors at all. MySQL begins collapsing at about 40-50
> concurrent connections, whereas Postgres handily scaled to 120 before
> balking. My guess is, that Postgres could have gone far past 120
> connections with enough memory and CPU."
>
> Also on the pro side PostgreSQL has BSD style license and a more open
> and healthy development community like Apache.
That is a very old article (2000-07-05), I would like to see more recent
data. Needless to say, switching between databases is a non-issue if you use
Torque or any other decent OR tool.
-jon
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Re: Jsp vs. velocity (was: Re: [PATCH] i18n for navigations)
Posted by Gunnar Rønning <gu...@polygnosis.com>.
* Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
| > I don't think you understand what I said. I don't say that you and I can't
| > qualify other solutions, but if this guy cannot qualify why it makes more
| > sense to use Velocity than JSP for a given project then his management
| > will choose JSP.
|
| I don't think you understand what I said either. :-)
|
| My point is that there are a ton of well documented reasons (even published
| as cover stories in mass distributed magazines) for why one should not use
| JSP.
Well, I've read a couple of them, but choice of technology can involve
other issues than the ones highlighted there. Maybe even PHP or a mod_perl
system would have been better for their project ;-) It depends on the
organization, the project and the resources available for the project.
| When did PostgreSQL become faster than MySQL?
Some time ago(around 7.0 I suspect), MySQL has been very fast as long
as you don't have concurrent access, but it doesn't scale well with
concurrent sessions. Check this article from Tim Perdue about the
Sourceforge migration from MySQL to PostgreSQL :
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/tim20000705.php3
A quote from the article :
"In fact, Postgres seemed to scale 3 times higher than MySQL before
giving any errors at all. MySQL begins collapsing at about 40-50
concurrent connections, whereas Postgres handily scaled to 120 before
balking. My guess is, that Postgres could have gone far past 120
connections with enough memory and CPU."
Also on the pro side PostgreSQL has BSD style license and a more open
and healthy development community like Apache.
--
Gunnar Rønning - gunnar@polygnosis.com
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/
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Re: Jsp vs. velocity (was: Re: [PATCH] i18n for navigations)
Posted by Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 10/22/01 1:12 AM, "Gunnar Rønning" <gu...@polygnosis.com> wrote:
> I don't think you understand what I said. I don't say that you and I can't
> qualify other solutions, but if this guy cannot qualify why it makes more
> sense to use Velocity than JSP for a given project then his management
> will choose JSP.
I don't think you understand what I said either. :-)
My point is that there are a ton of well documented reasons (even published
as cover stories in mass distributed magazines) for why one should not use
JSP.
> If you don't know why you change, then why bother changing ?
> It's a bit the same for other server technology, we all know Linux is more
> stable than Windows, we all know PostgreSQL is a more robust and faster
> database solution than MySQL, etc. But people still use the latter technology
> ?
> Why ? Because they like to continue using what they already know, and in some
> cases that is fine, it really depends on the scope of the project.
When did PostgreSQL become faster than MySQL?
-jon
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Re: Jsp vs. velocity (was: Re: [PATCH] i18n for navigations)
Posted by Gunnar Rønning <gu...@polygnosis.com>.
* Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
|
| > they don't want to venture into. If that is so, and he is unable to qualify
| > other solutions then a jsp solution is better.
|
| Beyond the obvious...JSP has had quite a few published essays on why it is a
| piece of crap technology. Including one that was the cover story of the Java
| Developers Journal. I have also informally interviewed many other people who
| have had to work with JSP and all of them agree that it sucks.
|
| How many essays or discussions with people have you found showing any real
| weakness in Velocity? So far, I haven't found any and I have been looking.
| Pointing me in the right direction is appreciated.
I don't think you understand what I said. I don't say that you and I can't
qualify other solutions, but if this guy cannot qualify why it makes more
sense to use Velocity than JSP for a given project then his management
will choose JSP. If you don't know why you change, then why bother changing ?
It's a bit the same for other server technology, we all know Linux is more
stable than Windows, we all know PostgreSQL is a more robust and faster
database solution than MySQL, etc. But people still use the latter technology ?
Why ? Because they like to continue using what they already know, and in some
cases that is fine, it really depends on the scope of the project.
--
Gunnar Rønning - gunnar@polygnosis.com
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/
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