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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org> on 2014/07/31 04:38:58 UTC
Languages within a document
I have just recently installed AOO 4.1.0 in English plus language packs
for Spanish and Italian under Win 7 Home Premium. In Options, I
selected English USA as my default language.
Earlier today, while editing a document in Writer, I selected Tools ->
Languages -> Selection and the only language offered was English. Later
today, while editing a different document in English, I entered some
text in Italian. Then I highlighted it and went to Tools -> Languages
-> Selection and found both English and Italian offered so I selected
Italian. Obviously it recognized the Italian text. A while later, I
entered some Spanish text, highlighted it and went to Tools -> Languages
-> Selection and the only languages offered were English and Italian,
with Italian checked even though I had not selected it. Still later I
entered some more Spanish text, highlighted it, went to Tools ->
Languages -> Selection and it now offered me English, Italian and Catalan.
What gives? Anyone have any idea?
Dale Erwin
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
On 8/1/2014 8:18 AM, Brian Barker wrote:
> At 01:26 01/08/2014 -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
>> OK, just now, to test what you are telling me, I opened a new
>> document and entered some text in Spanish (nothing else in the
>> document) then I highlighted it, clicked on Tools -> Language ->
>> Selection and the only two languages offered are English (which is
>> checked I presume because English is set as the default language) and
>> Catalan. So I clicked on More, as you suggest, and I get a dialog
>> box named "character" with tabs for Font, Font Effects, Position,
>> Hyperlink and Background.
>
> Exactly. And on the Font tab you see the Language drop-down menu of
> all the languages. The previous menu is just a quick way - if one of
> the offered languages happens to be appropriate - of making the same
> character setting as is available here.
>
> Brian Barker
WOW, it worked. Thanks.
Dale Erwin
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
At 01:26 01/08/2014 -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
>OK, just now, to test what you are telling me, I opened a new
>document and entered some text in Spanish (nothing else in the
>document) then I highlighted it, clicked on Tools -> Language ->
>Selection and the only two languages offered are English (which is
>checked I presume because English is set as the default language)
>and Catalan. So I clicked on More, as you suggest, and I get a
>dialog box named "character" with tabs for Font, Font Effects,
>Position, Hyperlink and Background.
Exactly. And on the Font tab you see the Language drop-down menu of
all the languages. The previous menu is just a quick way - if one of
the offered languages happens to be appropriate - of making the same
character setting as is available here.
Brian Barker
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Aug 03, 2014 at 02:14:43AM -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
> Yes, I searched the extensions site and all I found were what looked like
> 3rd party dictionaries and none for the two languages I need: Spanish and
> Italian.
Yes, dictionaries come from 3rd parties, OpenOffice (or any derivative
product) does not develop the dictionaries.
Usually dictionaries are packaged as extensions including only a single
language (Spanish, Italian, German, etc.) and may be only a single
country (there might be an extension for "Spanish (Spain)", another for
"Spanish (Argentina)", etc.). You can install several dictionary
extensions, they will be listed in the "Extension Manager" from the menu
"Tools" - "Extension Manager...".
For example:
- Italian (Italy) http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/italian-dictionary-thesaurus-hyphenation-patterns
- Spanish (Spain) http://extensions.openoffice.org/project/es_ES-dicts
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
On 8/1/2014 2:19 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> Hello Dale,
>
> On Fri, Aug 01, 2014 at 01:51:45AM -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
>> On 8/1/2014 1:26 AM, Dale Erwin wrote:
>>>> It really doesn't matter what languages happen to be offered here,
>>>> as you can easily select More... at the bottom of the list,
>>>> whereupon you can choose from the full set of languages. Spelling
>>>> checking will be available in only those languages for which you
>>>> have spelling dictionaries installed.
>>>>
>>>> This method of selecting language sets the local character property.
>>>> Remember that you may prefer to do this through character styles or
>>>> paragraph styles.
>>>
>>> OK, just now, to test what you are telling me, I opened a new
>>> document and entered some text in Spanish (nothing else in the
>>> document) then I highlighted it, clicked on Tools -> Language ->
>>> Selection and the only two languages offered are English (which is
>>> checked I presume because English is set as the default language) and
>>> Catalan. So I clicked on More, as you suggest, and I get a dialog
>>> box named "character" with tabs for Font, Font Effects, Position,
>>> Hyperlink and Background.
>> That's probably all moot, because I just found a web page:
>> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Languagepack> and it says: "A
>> Language pack is a type of add-on for OpenOffice.org to get more
>> languages integrated without to install more than one Office set. It
>> contains only files to display, e.g., menus and dialogs in a specific
>> language incl. the spell checking libraries (since OOo 3.2). If
>> available the help content is also translated."
>>
>> So evidently you are mistaken about the language packs not including
>> the spell checking LIBRARIES (not dictionaries), and now I am back at
>> square one. I realize that Spanish and Catalan are very similar
>> languages, but I don't have Catalan installed and I do have Spanish
>> installed.
> Language packs do not include dictionaries, only the full install sets
> include them; this is a known issue tracked under
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124473
>
> Dictionaries are extensions, so you have to search for a dictionary in
> the extension's site: http://extensions.openoffice.org/
>
> Concerning the list of languages offered on the "Tools"
> - "Language"-"For Selection|Paragraph|all text" (you can access
> a similar menu from the status bar control that displays the current
> language), this list is built from a feature called "language guessing",
> and does not depend on the installed dictionaries. "Language guessing"
> is just a guess, as its name says, so don't expect it to be 100%
> reliable.
>
> Concerning the "Character" dialog that you can open from the menu
> "Tools" - "Language" - "For Selection" - "More..." (or from the context
> menu: right-click on the selected text and select "Character..."), the
> "Language" is an attribute of the "Font", so you will find it on the
> "Font" tab, in a list box. This location of the "Language" attribute is
> rather misleading, ideally there should be a toolbar item to set the
> language - something like
> http://aoo-ui-extras.apache-extras.org.codespot.com/git.wiki/LanguageBox_dropdown.png
>
> Also note the original suggestion made by Brian: instead of this way of
> settings the language attribute (known as "hard formatting"), it is
> better to use styles.
>
>
> Regards
Yes, I searched the extensions site and all I found were what looked
like 3rd party dictionaries and none for the two languages I need:
Spanish and Italian.
I understand what you're saying that styles would be the better way to
handle the language settings, but at this point what difference would it
make if I don't have the dictionaries. However, are not the "spelling
LIBRARIES" (not dictionaries) mentioned above sufficient? I don't know
what the difference might be between a dictionary and a library.
I'm beginning to think that the split of OpenOffice/LibreOffice is going
to be the death of this product.
Dale Erwin
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hello Dale,
On Fri, Aug 01, 2014 at 01:51:45AM -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
> On 8/1/2014 1:26 AM, Dale Erwin wrote:
> >
> >>It really doesn't matter what languages happen to be offered here,
> >>as you can easily select More... at the bottom of the list,
> >>whereupon you can choose from the full set of languages. Spelling
> >>checking will be available in only those languages for which you
> >>have spelling dictionaries installed.
> >>
> >>This method of selecting language sets the local character property.
> >>Remember that you may prefer to do this through character styles or
> >>paragraph styles.
> >
> >
> >OK, just now, to test what you are telling me, I opened a new
> >document and entered some text in Spanish (nothing else in the
> >document) then I highlighted it, clicked on Tools -> Language ->
> >Selection and the only two languages offered are English (which is
> >checked I presume because English is set as the default language) and
> >Catalan. So I clicked on More, as you suggest, and I get a dialog
> >box named "character" with tabs for Font, Font Effects, Position,
> >Hyperlink and Background.
>
> That's probably all moot, because I just found a web page:
> <https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Languagepack> and it says: "A
> Language pack is a type of add-on for OpenOffice.org to get more
> languages integrated without to install more than one Office set. It
> contains only files to display, e.g., menus and dialogs in a specific
> language incl. the spell checking libraries (since OOo 3.2). If
> available the help content is also translated."
>
> So evidently you are mistaken about the language packs not including
> the spell checking LIBRARIES (not dictionaries), and now I am back at
> square one. I realize that Spanish and Catalan are very similar
> languages, but I don't have Catalan installed and I do have Spanish
> installed.
Language packs do not include dictionaries, only the full install sets
include them; this is a known issue tracked under
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=124473
Dictionaries are extensions, so you have to search for a dictionary in
the extension's site: http://extensions.openoffice.org/
Concerning the list of languages offered on the "Tools"
- "Language"-"For Selection|Paragraph|all text" (you can access
a similar menu from the status bar control that displays the current
language), this list is built from a feature called "language guessing",
and does not depend on the installed dictionaries. "Language guessing"
is just a guess, as its name says, so don't expect it to be 100%
reliable.
Concerning the "Character" dialog that you can open from the menu
"Tools" - "Language" - "For Selection" - "More..." (or from the context
menu: right-click on the selected text and select "Character..."), the
"Language" is an attribute of the "Font", so you will find it on the
"Font" tab, in a list box. This location of the "Language" attribute is
rather misleading, ideally there should be a toolbar item to set the
language - something like
http://aoo-ui-extras.apache-extras.org.codespot.com/git.wiki/LanguageBox_dropdown.png
Also note the original suggestion made by Brian: instead of this way of
settings the language attribute (known as "hard formatting"), it is
better to use styles.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina
Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
At 02:32 03/08/2014 -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
>If that were the case there would have to be an entry for
>Castellano, and there isn't.
Surely that's the entry that reads (in English) "Spanish (Spain)"?
Brian Barker
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
On 8/1/2014 10:48 AM, jonathon wrote:
>
> On 7/31/2014 11:51 PM, Dale Erwin wrote:
>> I realize that Spanish and Catalan are very similar languages, but I don't have Catalan installed and I do have Spanish installed.
> My guess is that the language detection scheme does not recognize
> "Spanish" as a language. Rather, it recognizes the four or five
> languages that comprise Spanish. (That issue erupted around the time the
> language detection code was inserted into OOo.)
No. If that were the case there would have to be an entry for
Castellano, and there isn't.
> Unless you either a professional translator, or use write for an Western
> Hemisphere (Canada, USA, Mexico, Caribbean, Central America, South
> America) audience, it doesn't matter. If you are writing for a Western
> Hemisphere audience, then switch language packs so that the Catalan
> Effect is less pronounced.
I finally found the one I need. I need Spanish (Peru) because I live in
Peru. I am not Peruvian, but my wife is and I do need it even though
I'm not a professional translato.
Dale Erwin
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by jonathon <to...@gmail.com>.
On 7/31/2014 11:51 PM, Dale Erwin wrote:
> I realize that Spanish and Catalan are very similar languages, but I don't have Catalan installed and I do have Spanish installed.
My guess is that the language detection scheme does not recognize
"Spanish" as a language. Rather, it recognizes the four or five
languages that comprise Spanish. (That issue erupted around the time the
language detection code was inserted into OOo.)
Unless you either a professional translator, or use write for an Western
Hemisphere (Canada, USA, Mexico, Caribbean, Central America, South
America) audience, it doesn't matter. If you are writing for a Western
Hemisphere audience, then switch language packs so that the Catalan
Effect is less pronounced.
jonathon
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
On 8/1/2014 1:26 AM, Dale Erwin wrote:
>
>> It really doesn't matter what languages happen to be offered here, as
>> you can easily select More... at the bottom of the list, whereupon
>> you can choose from the full set of languages. Spelling checking will
>> be available in only those languages for which you have spelling
>> dictionaries installed.
>>
>> This method of selecting language sets the local character property.
>> Remember that you may prefer to do this through character styles or
>> paragraph styles.
>
>
> OK, just now, to test what you are telling me, I opened a new document
> and entered some text in Spanish (nothing else in the document) then I
> highlighted it, clicked on Tools -> Language -> Selection and the only
> two languages offered are English (which is checked I presume because
> English is set as the default language) and Catalan. So I clicked on
> More, as you suggest, and I get a dialog box named "character" with
> tabs for Font, Font Effects, Position, Hyperlink and Background.
That's probably all moot, because I just found a web page:
<https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Languagepack> and it says: "A Language
pack is a type of add-on for OpenOffice.org to get more languages
integrated without to install more than one Office set. It contains only
files to display, e.g., menus and dialogs in a specific language incl.
the spell checking libraries (since OOo 3.2). If available the help
content is also translated."
So evidently you are mistaken about the language packs not including the
spell checking LIBRARIES (not dictionaries), and now I am back at square
one. I realize that Spanish and Catalan are very similar languages, but
I don't have Catalan installed and I do have Spanish installed.
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Dale Erwin <da...@casaerwin.org>.
> It really doesn't matter what languages happen to be offered here, as
> you can easily select More... at the bottom of the list, whereupon you
> can choose from the full set of languages. Spelling checking will be
> available in only those languages for which you have spelling
> dictionaries installed.
>
> This method of selecting language sets the local character property.
> Remember that you may prefer to do this through character styles or
> paragraph styles.
OK, just now, to test what you are telling me, I opened a new document
and entered some text in Spanish (nothing else in the document) then I
highlighted it, clicked on Tools -> Language -> Selection and the only
two languages offered are English (which is checked I presume because
English is set as the default language) and Catalan. So I clicked on
More, as you suggest, and I get a dialog box named "character" with tabs
for Font, Font Effects, Position, Hyperlink and Background.
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Re: Languages within a document
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
At 21:38 30/07/2014 -0500, Dale Erwin wrote:
>I have just recently installed AOO 4.1.0 in English plus language
>packs for Spanish and Italian under Win 7 Home Premium.
The language packs provide "menus, dialogs, error messages" and
perhaps help text in alternative languages; they are not about
spelling dictionaries.
>In Options, I selected English USA as my default language. Earlier
>today, while editing a document in Writer, I selected Tools ->
>Languages -> Selection and the only language offered was English.
>Later today, while editing a different document in English, I
>entered some text in Italian. Then I highlighted it and went to
>Tools -> Languages -> Selection and found both English and Italian
>offered so I selected Italian. Obviously it recognized the Italian text.
The languages shown in those menus do appear to rely on some
automatic language detection.
>A while later, I entered some Spanish text, highlighted it and went
>to Tools -> Languages -> Selection and the only languages offered
>were English and Italian, with Italian checked even though I had not
>selected it.
You will have selected Italian - somehow. Presumably the Spanish you
entered was within the text you already selected as Italian (above)
and would have inherited the character property you set.
>Still later I entered some more Spanish text, highlighted it, went
>to Tools -> Languages -> Selection and it now offered me English,
>Italian and Catalan.
It really doesn't matter what languages happen to be offered here, as
you can easily select More... at the bottom of the list, whereupon
you can choose from the full set of languages. Spelling checking will
be available in only those languages for which you have spelling
dictionaries installed.
This method of selecting language sets the local character property.
Remember that you may prefer to do this through character styles or
paragraph styles.
I trust this helps.
Brian Barker
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