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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by blah blah blah <ma...@gmail.com> on 2005/07/07 03:06:06 UTC
Re: banned
I am absolutely NOT kidding.
The point is NOT that I was using my government email address to
subscribe to a technical mail list. Nor is it that I was posting
irreverent nonsense. The point is that somebody on this list copied
selective posts with my government email address in the subject line
and then notified the State agency in which I was employed. The
archive clearly show who did this, and was a dispicable act and
violation of Net ethos. Never before in 20 years of using the
Internet for communication have I heard of anybody doing something
like this.
I signed back on to struts-user to find out what is happening with
struts these days. Those of you who have known me on this list (and
others, and personally) for years know that my sense of humor (or lack
thereof) is abrasive, but never was any harm meant. What is next?
DOS attacks on IP addresses by people who disagree with the
committers? I was helping people learn struts on this list before
most of the present subscribers knew Java; I have an acknowledgement
in Chuck Cavaness' O'Reilly book, "Programming Struts;" I'm the one
who started the [FRIDAY] humor posts, remember?
Look in the archive for the subject with
"mgalbreath@elections.state.md.us" in it and you can see for yourself
who did this. Watch what you say and where you say it from - you
could be next.
It looks like I have been banned from the list; Craig says he approves.
~mark
James Mitchell wrote:
> You are kidding right?
>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
> EdgeTech, Inc.
> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
> 678.910.8017
> AIM: jmitchtx
> Yahoo: jmitchtx
> MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
> Skype: jmitchtx
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Mark Galbreath wrote:
>
>> Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
>> of the Board of Elections. It made me look like a racist and I was
>> fired this morning. The State is also looking into whether my use of
>> an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
>> law. You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
>>
>> Signing off....
>> Mark
>>
>> On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <TV...@dhmh.state.md.us> wrote:
>>
>>> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
>>>
>>> So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)
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Re: banned
Posted by Ed Griebel <ed...@gmail.com>.
How exactly does dispatching a collection of spite-filled e-mails
become "damaging to the Struts community," because I sure don't see
it. Will it reduce participation on this mailing list? If people think
twice about making bigoted or unprofessional posts it's a positive.
People are calling him a victim, but don't forget, Mark was the
*originator* of this nonsense. He has only himself to blame, and he
was just asking for trouble spewing that kind of bile from a work
account. It's unfortunate that it affected his job, but again, the
situation was under his control from the beginning.
-ed
On 7/7/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good point, assuming that what Mark says is true, that he was fired, this is
> all bad.
>
> I recognize your need to ban people and if it helps improve the signal to
> noise ratio on this list, I'm all for it. I also recognize that we are all
> responsible for what we say here. Both the first time around through email
> and the second time around in the archives.
>
> But in this instance, Mark doesn't have only himself to blame. Someone sent
> his comments to his workplace and resulted in him being fired. I've worked
> will some major jerks over the years who wrote great code, slung great
> servers, etc etc. Just because someone's has unpopular views or is terribly
> annoying or extremely frustrating or whatever does not justify maliciously
> alerting their employers.
>
> This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All you need to do is to create a
> filter and individuals can ban anyone they want. The email to MD dept of
> elections is spiteful and childish and way more damaging to the struts
> community than any bigoted and/or stupid posts.
>
> BAL
>
> >From: Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
> >CC: Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: banned
> >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:24:14 -0700
> >
> >On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with
> >someone's
> > > livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
> > >
> >
> >Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
> >credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
> >corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
> >blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
> >certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
> >it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
> >system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
> >he got called on it.
> >
> >I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
> >Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
> >with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
> >people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
> >playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
> >can" pissing contest.
> >
> >The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
> >after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
> >change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
> >determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
> >(since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
> >not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
> >didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
> >his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
> >fine if he simply went away.
> >
> >I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
> >*not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
> >but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
> >people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
> >to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
> >it harms the Struts community as a whole.
> >
> >Craig McClanahan
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: banned
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
Nope. I likely took the same amount of time as you took to spin your
"word of the day" insult. :)
On 7/7/05, DGraham@evergreeninvestments.com
<DG...@evergreeninvestments.com> wrote:
> I hope you didn't spend too much time composing this puerile gibberish.
>
> -Dennis
>
>
>
>
> Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>
> 07/07/2005 12:52 PM
> Please respond to
> "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>
>
> To
> Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: banned
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See Mark post stupid comments
> Seen Mark get fired
> Don't be a Mark.
>
> [End of Story]
>
> On 7/7/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Good point, assuming that what Mark says is true, that he was fired,
> this is
> > all bad.
> >
> > I recognize your need to ban people and if it helps improve the signal
> to
> > noise ratio on this list, I'm all for it. I also recognize that we are
> all
> > responsible for what we say here. Both the first time around through
> email
> > and the second time around in the archives.
> >
> > But in this instance, Mark doesn't have only himself to blame. Someone
> sent
> > his comments to his workplace and resulted in him being fired. I've
> worked
> > will some major jerks over the years who wrote great code, slung great
> > servers, etc etc. Just because someone's has unpopular views or is
> terribly
> > annoying or extremely frustrating or whatever does not justify
> maliciously
> > alerting their employers.
> >
> > This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All you need to do is to
> create a
> > filter and individuals can ban anyone they want. The email to MD dept of
> > elections is spiteful and childish and way more damaging to the struts
> > community than any bigoted and/or stupid posts.
> >
> > BAL
> >
> > >From: Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>
> > >To: Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
> > >CC: Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> > >Subject: Re: banned
> > >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:24:14 -0700
> > >
> > >On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with
> > >someone's
> > > > livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
> > > >
> > >
> > >Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
> > >credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
> > >corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
> > >blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
> > >certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
> > >it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
> > >system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
> > >he got called on it.
> > >
> > >I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
> > >Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
> > >with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
> > >people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
> > >playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
> > >can" pissing contest.
> > >
> > >The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
> > >after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
> > >change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
> > >determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
> > >(since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
> > >not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
> > >didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
> > >his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
> > >fine if he simply went away.
> > >
> > >I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
> > >*not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
> > >but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
> > >people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
> > >to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
> > >it harms the Struts community as a whole.
> > >
> > >Craig McClanahan
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > >For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
>
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Re: banned
Posted by DG...@EvergreenInvestments.com.
I hope you didn't spend too much time composing this puerile gibberish.
-Dennis
Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>
07/07/2005 12:52 PM
Please respond to
"Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
To
Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
cc
Subject
Re: banned
See Mark post stupid comments
Seen Mark get fired
Don't be a Mark.
[End of Story]
On 7/7/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good point, assuming that what Mark says is true, that he was fired,
this is
> all bad.
>
> I recognize your need to ban people and if it helps improve the signal
to
> noise ratio on this list, I'm all for it. I also recognize that we are
all
> responsible for what we say here. Both the first time around through
email
> and the second time around in the archives.
>
> But in this instance, Mark doesn't have only himself to blame. Someone
sent
> his comments to his workplace and resulted in him being fired. I've
worked
> will some major jerks over the years who wrote great code, slung great
> servers, etc etc. Just because someone's has unpopular views or is
terribly
> annoying or extremely frustrating or whatever does not justify
maliciously
> alerting their employers.
>
> This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All you need to do is to
create a
> filter and individuals can ban anyone they want. The email to MD dept of
> elections is spiteful and childish and way more damaging to the struts
> community than any bigoted and/or stupid posts.
>
> BAL
>
> >From: Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
> >CC: Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: banned
> >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:24:14 -0700
> >
> >On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with
> >someone's
> > > livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
> > >
> >
> >Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
> >credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
> >corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
> >blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
> >certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
> >it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
> >system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
> >he got called on it.
> >
> >I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
> >Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
> >with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
> >people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
> >playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
> >can" pissing contest.
> >
> >The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
> >after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
> >change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
> >determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
> >(since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
> >not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
> >didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
> >his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
> >fine if he simply went away.
> >
> >I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
> >*not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
> >but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
> >people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
> >to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
> >it harms the Struts community as a whole.
> >
> >Craig McClanahan
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: banned
Posted by Brandon Goodin <br...@gmail.com>.
See Mark post stupid comments
Seen Mark get fired
Don't be a Mark.
[End of Story]
On 7/7/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good point, assuming that what Mark says is true, that he was fired, this is
> all bad.
>
> I recognize your need to ban people and if it helps improve the signal to
> noise ratio on this list, I'm all for it. I also recognize that we are all
> responsible for what we say here. Both the first time around through email
> and the second time around in the archives.
>
> But in this instance, Mark doesn't have only himself to blame. Someone sent
> his comments to his workplace and resulted in him being fired. I've worked
> will some major jerks over the years who wrote great code, slung great
> servers, etc etc. Just because someone's has unpopular views or is terribly
> annoying or extremely frustrating or whatever does not justify maliciously
> alerting their employers.
>
> This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All you need to do is to create a
> filter and individuals can ban anyone they want. The email to MD dept of
> elections is spiteful and childish and way more damaging to the struts
> community than any bigoted and/or stupid posts.
>
> BAL
>
> >From: Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>
> >To: Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
> >CC: Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: banned
> >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:24:14 -0700
> >
> >On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with
> >someone's
> > > livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
> > >
> >
> >Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
> >credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
> >corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
> >blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
> >certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
> >it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
> >system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
> >he got called on it.
> >
> >I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
> >Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
> >with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
> >people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
> >playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
> >can" pissing contest.
> >
> >The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
> >after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
> >change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
> >determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
> >(since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
> >not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
> >didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
> >his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
> >fine if he simply went away.
> >
> >I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
> >*not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
> >but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
> >people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
> >to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
> >it harms the Struts community as a whole.
> >
> >Craig McClanahan
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: banned
Posted by Dakota Jack <da...@gmail.com>.
Few mature individuals who are well-grounded in a spiritual sense have
any fear of what newcomers and troublemakers can do to reputation or
to effectiveness. Those who yell, those who take up space, those who
talk strange and even with evil in their hearts, those who are
burdened with mental twists, those who rebel, and those who trade on
the list's reputation, all such people seldom harm at all and, if at
all, not for long.
Some of these will become our best and most respected list members, if
not a part of the holy table of committers. Some leave, some remain
to try our patience. Others seem to just drift away. The
troublemakers should be regarded not as menaces but as our teachers.
They oblige us to cultivate patience, tolerance, and some humility.
If they are sick, they are only sicker than us at worst. Those that
openly condemn them are the Pharisees whose false righteousness does
the list more and deeper damage. Some of these are, as is usual in
such matters, our "elder statesmen".
I am very sorry you lost your job, Mark. I cannot imagine this is
likely to better you. But, please know that there are out here people
who do understand that however sick or outrageous you might be, you
deserve your dignity too. I wish that did not sound so
high-and-mighty, and that is what Craig, for reasons only he can
explain, finds so objectionable about me, I guess. But, this is a
time, I think, to be high-and-mighty.
I do want to say that Niall displayed great courage in admitting his
error, and I certainly respect that.
On 7/6/05, Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with someone's
> > livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
> >
>
> Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
> credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
> corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
> blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
> certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
> it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
> system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
> he got called on it.
>
> I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
> Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
> with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
> people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
> playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
> can" pissing contest.
>
> The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
> after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
> change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
> determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
> (since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
> not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
> didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
> his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
> fine if he simply went away.
>
> I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
> *not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
> but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
> people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
> to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
> it harms the Struts community as a whole.
>
> Craig McClanahan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~
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Re: banned
Posted by Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com>.
Good point, assuming that what Mark says is true, that he was fired, this is
all bad.
I recognize your need to ban people and if it helps improve the signal to
noise ratio on this list, I'm all for it. I also recognize that we are all
responsible for what we say here. Both the first time around through email
and the second time around in the archives.
But in this instance, Mark doesn't have only himself to blame. Someone sent
his comments to his workplace and resulted in him being fired. I've worked
will some major jerks over the years who wrote great code, slung great
servers, etc etc. Just because someone's has unpopular views or is terribly
annoying or extremely frustrating or whatever does not justify maliciously
alerting their employers.
This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All you need to do is to create a
filter and individuals can ban anyone they want. The email to MD dept of
elections is spiteful and childish and way more damaging to the struts
community than any bigoted and/or stupid posts.
BAL
>From: Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>
>To: Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
>CC: Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: banned
>Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:24:14 -0700
>
>On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with
>someone's
> > livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
> >
>
>Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
>credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
>corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
>blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
>certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
>it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
>system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
>he got called on it.
>
>I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
>Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
>with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
>people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
>playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
>can" pissing contest.
>
>The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
>after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
>change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
>determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
>(since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
>not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
>didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
>his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
>fine if he simply went away.
>
>I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
>*not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
>but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
>people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
>to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
>it harms the Struts community as a whole.
>
>Craig McClanahan
>
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Re: banned
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On 7/6/05, Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with someone's
> livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
>
Keep in mind that, if Mark indeed did get fired (he has *no*
credibility with me, so I don't believe anything he says without
corroboration) then he has only himself, and his own behavior, to
blame. Acting the way he does, on a public mailing list (which is
certainly accessible to his boss whether or not someone points him at
it) is incredibly stupid, and doing so from his employer's email
system is way beyond stupid -- and it was only a matter of time before
he got called on it.
I didn't forward the email trail, but I can absolutely understand
Niall's frustration with the behavior of an idiot. I'll take Niall
with one "fit of frustration" lapse *any* day over several of the
people that think the Struts user mailing list is their private
playground to have a "I can be more outrageous and infantile than you
can" pissing contest.
The next time around, I'm going to be inclined to ban people soon
after a spate of continuous crap like this (assuming requests to
change behavior don't work). It's a losing battle against a
determined jerk (because its easy to just get a new address) -- but
(since Mark got it wrong yet again) -- I didn't ban him, but I would
not complain if one of the other mailing list moderators had (they
didn't ban his gmail address, or you wouldn't have been able to see
his latest comment). Actually, as I told him, it would suit me just
fine if he simply went away.
I know there are a few people here who find Mark to be funny (I'm
*not* a part of that group). That's fine ... it's a free world ...
but please go find him funny somewhere else. There are ***lots*** of
people who find him annoying and disruptive instead of helpful -- and,
to the extent that this behavior encourages others to leave the list,
it harms the Struts community as a whole.
Craig McClanahan
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Re: banned
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
This is a tricky one...
On the one hand, I agree, taking away someones' income for any reason is
serious business. It sounds like Niall recognizes what he did
probably wasn't the best choice. That recognition wouldn't seem to me
to matter much now though, does it?
Yet on the other hand, you probably shouldn't say anything in a public
forum that you would have a problem getting back to anyone. Don't say
anything you aren't willing to stand behind 100% and take whatever
consequences come with it, or at least don't say something you aren't
willing to fully retract and apologize for later (understanding that
there may come a time when that isn't an option any longer).
An abrasive sense of humor is not carte blanche to say whatever you
want. Contrary to what we learn as kids, sticks and stones can very
much hurt you. You have the freedom to say whatever you want, as does a
person to complain about it to your employer. I don't think either
action is appropriate however.
Having a freedom means exercising it responsibly, not simply exercising
it because you can. This would seem to me to apply equally well to both
sides of this.
Quite a big mess this is. A very unfortunate event we all bear witness to.
Frank
Brian Lee wrote:
> Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with
> someone's livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
>
> BAL
>
>> From: "Niall Pemberton" <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: banned
>> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:10:08 +0100
>>
>> I cc'd them on the message I sent to this list in a moment of madness
>> at the
>> rubbish arriving in my inbox and which I now regret.
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/user%40struts.apache.org/msg29119.html
>>
>> Niall
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "blah blah blah" <ma...@gmail.com>
>> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: banned
>>
>>
>> I am absolutely NOT kidding.
>>
>> The point is NOT that I was using my government email address to
>> subscribe to a technical mail list. Nor is it that I was posting
>> irreverent nonsense. The point is that somebody on this list copied
>> selective posts with my government email address in the subject line
>> and then notified the State agency in which I was employed. The
>> archive clearly show who did this, and was a dispicable act and
>> violation of Net ethos. Never before in 20 years of using the
>> Internet for communication have I heard of anybody doing something
>> like this.
>>
>> I signed back on to struts-user to find out what is happening with
>> struts these days. Those of you who have known me on this list (and
>> others, and personally) for years know that my sense of humor (or lack
>> thereof) is abrasive, but never was any harm meant. What is next?
>> DOS attacks on IP addresses by people who disagree with the
>> committers? I was helping people learn struts on this list before
>> most of the present subscribers knew Java; I have an acknowledgement
>> in Chuck Cavaness' O'Reilly book, "Programming Struts;" I'm the one
>> who started the [FRIDAY] humor posts, remember?
>>
>> Look in the archive for the subject with
>> "mgalbreath@elections.state.md.us" in it and you can see for yourself
>> who did this. Watch what you say and where you say it from - you
>> could be next.
>>
>> It looks like I have been banned from the list; Craig says he approves.
>>
>> ~mark
>>
>>
>> James Mitchell wrote:
>>
>> > You are kidding right?
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > James Mitchell
>> > Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
>> > Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
>> > EdgeTech, Inc.
>> > http://www.edgetechservices.net/
>> > 678.910.8017
>> > AIM: jmitchtx
>> > Yahoo: jmitchtx
>> > MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
>> > Skype: jmitchtx
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Mark Galbreath wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
>> >> of the Board of Elections. It made me look like a racist and I was
>> >> fired this morning. The State is also looking into whether my use of
>> >> an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
>> >> law. You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
>> >>
>> >> Signing off....
>> >> Mark
>> >>
>> >> On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <TV...@dhmh.state.md.us> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
>> >>>
>> >>> So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
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Re: [OT] Using connection pools - security
Posted by Michael Rasmussen <ra...@gmail.com>.
You could also just use one pool per user role and look up the db user
and the role that user is in, then pull the connection from the pool
that you have for that role. If your DB doesn't support roles for
users you could create a user/role table. I think it might be
overkill to create an actual user in your database for each user in
your application. If that is your requirement though then that is
your requirement.
Michael
On 7/6/05, Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A couple of considerations are relevant here:
>
> * Is a single user ever going to really use more than one
> connection from the pool? If not, wouldn't it be better
> to create a *connection* for them, instead of a *pool*?
> (Note in particular that transactions don't cross connection
> boundaries, so if you want "all or nothing" commits, you need
> to do them on a single connection anyway).
>
> * Creating even one connection per user is going to require
> more active connections to your database than sharing the
> same pool for all users. In the cases where you are using
> the DB to restrict access to things (by username), one approach
> would be to use something like Oracle's database roles instead.
> That way, the code that retrieves a generic connection from an
> application wide pool could also do a SET ROLE (or whatever the
> appropriate command is -- it's been a few years since I was this
> deep into databases) that established the restrictions for the
> currently logged on user. That way, you could continue to share
> a single pool across all your users, and minimize the number of
> connections your DB has to support to just the number of
> currently active requests.
>
> Of course, the latter solution depends on your database having the
> capability to do this -- I know Oracle does, but don't know about
> others.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 7/6/05, Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I guess I could use any implementation of a connection pool for a simple
> > implementation. I just need to use a connection pool for every user (of
> > course using a smaller number of connections than usually).
> > The connection pool object will be created only when the user logs in
> > (if it doesn't exist already). Maybe it would be nice however to return
> > the first connection quickly and then create the others in a background
> > thread.
> > Since there could be a lot of users I should have a max-connection-pools
> > config-param. When is reached I will remove the connection pools of
> > user's who haven't used the object recently.
> >
> > But if there is no implementation of this already, probably this is a
> > not so good idea after all :-).
> > That's why I asked on the list before I want to use it.
> >
> > Tamas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 21:40 -0600, Larry Meadors wrote:
> > > I do not know of any, but it is possible to create one using something
> > > like proxool.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > On 7/6/05, Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have a question regarding connection pools and DB user rights.
> > > >
> > > > When you use connection pool objects you specify an user who will be the
> > > > owner of all the Connection objects in the pool.
> > > > I guess that the most usual case is to specify an user which has the DB
> > > > permissions to execute all the DB operations that needs to be executed
> > > > from the application. You also create users, add them to roles.
> > > > The users login to the application and authorization is configured for
> > > > the parts of the application, but underneath all the users use
> > > > connections with rights to execute all the DB operations.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to create users and roles in my webapp. I would like to
> > > > allow the user to enter a real DB/password which I want to use to make
> > > > the DB connection so the rights of the user to make a given DB operation
> > > > will be configured in the DB.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a support for this or am I on my own to implement a solution
> > > > for it?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > > Tamas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
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Re: [OT] Using connection pools - security
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
A couple of considerations are relevant here:
* Is a single user ever going to really use more than one
connection from the pool? If not, wouldn't it be better
to create a *connection* for them, instead of a *pool*?
(Note in particular that transactions don't cross connection
boundaries, so if you want "all or nothing" commits, you need
to do them on a single connection anyway).
* Creating even one connection per user is going to require
more active connections to your database than sharing the
same pool for all users. In the cases where you are using
the DB to restrict access to things (by username), one approach
would be to use something like Oracle's database roles instead.
That way, the code that retrieves a generic connection from an
application wide pool could also do a SET ROLE (or whatever the
appropriate command is -- it's been a few years since I was this
deep into databases) that established the restrictions for the
currently logged on user. That way, you could continue to share
a single pool across all your users, and minimize the number of
connections your DB has to support to just the number of
currently active requests.
Of course, the latter solution depends on your database having the
capability to do this -- I know Oracle does, but don't know about
others.
Craig
On 7/6/05, Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess I could use any implementation of a connection pool for a simple
> implementation. I just need to use a connection pool for every user (of
> course using a smaller number of connections than usually).
> The connection pool object will be created only when the user logs in
> (if it doesn't exist already). Maybe it would be nice however to return
> the first connection quickly and then create the others in a background
> thread.
> Since there could be a lot of users I should have a max-connection-pools
> config-param. When is reached I will remove the connection pools of
> user's who haven't used the object recently.
>
> But if there is no implementation of this already, probably this is a
> not so good idea after all :-).
> That's why I asked on the list before I want to use it.
>
> Tamas
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 21:40 -0600, Larry Meadors wrote:
> > I do not know of any, but it is possible to create one using something
> > like proxool.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > On 7/6/05, Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a question regarding connection pools and DB user rights.
> > >
> > > When you use connection pool objects you specify an user who will be the
> > > owner of all the Connection objects in the pool.
> > > I guess that the most usual case is to specify an user which has the DB
> > > permissions to execute all the DB operations that needs to be executed
> > > from the application. You also create users, add them to roles.
> > > The users login to the application and authorization is configured for
> > > the parts of the application, but underneath all the users use
> > > connections with rights to execute all the DB operations.
> > >
> > > I don't want to create users and roles in my webapp. I would like to
> > > allow the user to enter a real DB/password which I want to use to make
> > > the DB connection so the rights of the user to make a given DB operation
> > > will be configured in the DB.
> > >
> > > Is there a support for this or am I on my own to implement a solution
> > > for it?
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Tamas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
>
>
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>
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Re: [OT] Using connection pools - security
Posted by Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com>.
I guess I could use any implementation of a connection pool for a simple
implementation. I just need to use a connection pool for every user (of
course using a smaller number of connections than usually).
The connection pool object will be created only when the user logs in
(if it doesn't exist already). Maybe it would be nice however to return
the first connection quickly and then create the others in a background
thread.
Since there could be a lot of users I should have a max-connection-pools
config-param. When is reached I will remove the connection pools of
user's who haven't used the object recently.
But if there is no implementation of this already, probably this is a
not so good idea after all :-).
That's why I asked on the list before I want to use it.
Tamas
On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 21:40 -0600, Larry Meadors wrote:
> I do not know of any, but it is possible to create one using something
> like proxool.
>
> Larry
>
> On 7/6/05, Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a question regarding connection pools and DB user rights.
> >
> > When you use connection pool objects you specify an user who will be the
> > owner of all the Connection objects in the pool.
> > I guess that the most usual case is to specify an user which has the DB
> > permissions to execute all the DB operations that needs to be executed
> > from the application. You also create users, add them to roles.
> > The users login to the application and authorization is configured for
> > the parts of the application, but underneath all the users use
> > connections with rights to execute all the DB operations.
> >
> > I don't want to create users and roles in my webapp. I would like to
> > allow the user to enter a real DB/password which I want to use to make
> > the DB connection so the rights of the user to make a given DB operation
> > will be configured in the DB.
> >
> > Is there a support for this or am I on my own to implement a solution
> > for it?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Tamas
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: [OT] Using connection pools - security
Posted by Larry Meadors <la...@gmail.com>.
I do not know of any, but it is possible to create one using something
like proxool.
Larry
On 7/6/05, Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding connection pools and DB user rights.
>
> When you use connection pool objects you specify an user who will be the
> owner of all the Connection objects in the pool.
> I guess that the most usual case is to specify an user which has the DB
> permissions to execute all the DB operations that needs to be executed
> from the application. You also create users, add them to roles.
> The users login to the application and authorization is configured for
> the parts of the application, but underneath all the users use
> connections with rights to execute all the DB operations.
>
> I don't want to create users and roles in my webapp. I would like to
> allow the user to enter a real DB/password which I want to use to make
> the DB connection so the rights of the user to make a given DB operation
> will be configured in the DB.
>
> Is there a support for this or am I on my own to implement a solution
> for it?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Tamas
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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[OT] Using connection pools - security
Posted by Tamas Szabo <sz...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I have a question regarding connection pools and DB user rights.
When you use connection pool objects you specify an user who will be the
owner of all the Connection objects in the pool.
I guess that the most usual case is to specify an user which has the DB
permissions to execute all the DB operations that needs to be executed
from the application. You also create users, add them to roles.
The users login to the application and authorization is configured for
the parts of the application, but underneath all the users use
connections with rights to execute all the DB operations.
I don't want to create users and roles in my webapp. I would like to
allow the user to enter a real DB/password which I want to use to make
the DB connection so the rights of the user to make a given DB operation
will be configured in the DB.
Is there a support for this or am I on my own to implement a solution
for it?
Thank you,
Tamas
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Re: banned
Posted by Brian Lee <br...@hotmail.com>.
Wow, this is shockingly lame. Like amazingly lame. To mess with someone's
livlihood because you think they are an jerk is inexcusable.
BAL
>From: "Niall Pemberton" <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>Subject: Re: banned
>Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 03:10:08 +0100
>
>I cc'd them on the message I sent to this list in a moment of madness at
>the
>rubbish arriving in my inbox and which I now regret.
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/user%40struts.apache.org/msg29119.html
>
>Niall
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "blah blah blah" <ma...@gmail.com>
>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:06 AM
>Subject: Re: banned
>
>
>I am absolutely NOT kidding.
>
>The point is NOT that I was using my government email address to
>subscribe to a technical mail list. Nor is it that I was posting
>irreverent nonsense. The point is that somebody on this list copied
>selective posts with my government email address in the subject line
>and then notified the State agency in which I was employed. The
>archive clearly show who did this, and was a dispicable act and
>violation of Net ethos. Never before in 20 years of using the
>Internet for communication have I heard of anybody doing something
>like this.
>
>I signed back on to struts-user to find out what is happening with
>struts these days. Those of you who have known me on this list (and
>others, and personally) for years know that my sense of humor (or lack
>thereof) is abrasive, but never was any harm meant. What is next?
>DOS attacks on IP addresses by people who disagree with the
>committers? I was helping people learn struts on this list before
>most of the present subscribers knew Java; I have an acknowledgement
>in Chuck Cavaness' O'Reilly book, "Programming Struts;" I'm the one
>who started the [FRIDAY] humor posts, remember?
>
>Look in the archive for the subject with
>"mgalbreath@elections.state.md.us" in it and you can see for yourself
>who did this. Watch what you say and where you say it from - you
>could be next.
>
>It looks like I have been banned from the list; Craig says he approves.
>
>~mark
>
>
>James Mitchell wrote:
>
> > You are kidding right?
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Mitchell
> > Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
> > Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
> > EdgeTech, Inc.
> > http://www.edgetechservices.net/
> > 678.910.8017
> > AIM: jmitchtx
> > Yahoo: jmitchtx
> > MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
> > Skype: jmitchtx
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Mark Galbreath wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
> >> of the Board of Elections. It made me look like a racist and I was
> >> fired this morning. The State is also looking into whether my use of
> >> an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
> >> law. You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
> >>
> >> Signing off....
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <TV...@dhmh.state.md.us> wrote:
> >>
> >>> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
> >>>
> >>> So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)
>
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Re: banned
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
I cc'd them on the message I sent to this list in a moment of madness at the
rubbish arriving in my inbox and which I now regret.
http://www.mail-archive.com/user%40struts.apache.org/msg29119.html
Niall
----- Original Message -----
From: "blah blah blah" <ma...@gmail.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: banned
I am absolutely NOT kidding.
The point is NOT that I was using my government email address to
subscribe to a technical mail list. Nor is it that I was posting
irreverent nonsense. The point is that somebody on this list copied
selective posts with my government email address in the subject line
and then notified the State agency in which I was employed. The
archive clearly show who did this, and was a dispicable act and
violation of Net ethos. Never before in 20 years of using the
Internet for communication have I heard of anybody doing something
like this.
I signed back on to struts-user to find out what is happening with
struts these days. Those of you who have known me on this list (and
others, and personally) for years know that my sense of humor (or lack
thereof) is abrasive, but never was any harm meant. What is next?
DOS attacks on IP addresses by people who disagree with the
committers? I was helping people learn struts on this list before
most of the present subscribers knew Java; I have an acknowledgement
in Chuck Cavaness' O'Reilly book, "Programming Struts;" I'm the one
who started the [FRIDAY] humor posts, remember?
Look in the archive for the subject with
"mgalbreath@elections.state.md.us" in it and you can see for yourself
who did this. Watch what you say and where you say it from - you
could be next.
It looks like I have been banned from the list; Craig says he approves.
~mark
James Mitchell wrote:
> You are kidding right?
>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
> EdgeTech, Inc.
> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
> 678.910.8017
> AIM: jmitchtx
> Yahoo: jmitchtx
> MSN: jmitchell@apache.org
> Skype: jmitchtx
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Mark Galbreath wrote:
>
>> Thanks to whomever emailed last weeks nonsense thread to the Director
>> of the Board of Elections. It made me look like a racist and I was
>> fired this morning. The State is also looking into whether my use of
>> an official email address for that discussion is in violation of state
>> law. You did your work well, you low-life bastard.
>>
>> Signing off....
>> Mark
>>
>> On 6/30/05, Thai Dang Vu <TV...@dhmh.state.md.us> wrote:
>>
>>> 3) "Struts! It's not just for H-1Bs!"
>>>
>>> So, I can get a H1B just by learning Struts and use it decently? :)
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