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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by sadaf zargeen <sa...@yahoo.com> on 2003/03/11 22:13:25 UTC
newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
searching the archive I could not find information on
this, nor did I see any reference to it in users
guide.
Is there any plans to make Avalon/Phoneix Fault
tolerant or build loading-balancing into it or is that
too application specific to be part of the framework.
I can forsee hot stand-by situation needed where one
instance of application (with all of its components)
upon failure would fail over to another running
instance of Phonenix. Or the high load on one
application can be balanced across multiple running
Avalon/Phoneix instances with proper sharing of
session information for seamless
load-balance/fail-over.
This can be done at a more granular level such as
component load-balanced within an application.
This being part of the framework would make Avalon
applications automatically highly-available.
That makes avalon very attractive as a server
framework(not that it isn't already) proposition.
any comments or effort being made in that direction?
s.z.
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Re: newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> sadaf zargeen wrote:
>
>>> That is usually application/domain specific though
>>> we have talked about
>>
>>
>> where? Wiki or mailing list, cause I couldn't find
>> anything on mailing list.
>
>
> probably on the avalon-phoenix-dev@jakart.apache.org list (which we no
> longer use). Archives are at marc.theaimsgroup.com for example.
>
> - Leo, just really badly cut his right index finger so typing really
> really slowly
s o r r y t o h e a r t h i s
(Steve typing really slowly in order to express his commiseration and
sympathy.)
;-)
p.s. Get a bandaid or you will really muck up your keyboard!
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
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Re: newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
sadaf zargeen wrote:
>>That is usually application/domain specific though
>>we have talked about
>
> where? Wiki or mailing list, cause I couldn't find
> anything on mailing list.
probably on the avalon-phoenix-dev@jakart.apache.org list (which we no
longer use). Archives are at marc.theaimsgroup.com for example.
- Leo, just really badly cut his right index finger so typing really
really slowly
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Re: newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
Posted by sadaf zargeen <sa...@yahoo.com>.
ooh. that is an endevaour that I am not sure if I am
capable of undertaking. I will have to later on but
not right now due to my time constraints.
I was hoping for a lively discussion to ensue and
somehow magically the function would show up in
phoenix or something couple of days later. ;-)
But I see that is not how it works. But as I come
across a working solution, I will continue to
contribute to mailing list and solicit feedback within
the framwork context.
--- Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:18, sadaf zargeen wrote:
> > This is a message orient application. To properly
> > fail-over I would have one instance that is
> servicing
> > requests. Upon failure, the stand-by server(s)
> would
> > detect failure, negotiate its status to come up as
> the
> > primary server amongst possibly other servers and
> > start servicing request by picking up where the
> other
> > applicaiton left off. Naturaly this carries many
> > implications some of which are:
> > - how to negotiate being primary server? rating
> > system?
> > - how to know where to "pick up"? does this mean
> > sharing application state? does this mean sharing
> > user session state?
> > - if sharing state, using central state/session
> > repository(possibly slow, single point of failure)
> or
> > publishing state/session to all other servers
> > periodically.
> > - what to use as the communication protocol
> amongst
> > servers? socket, jmx(openJMX implementation eg).
>
> This is all interesting questions and I would say
> that the best way to do this
> is to use an application that accesses JMX to do it.
> We have discussed it
> before on one of the mailing lists here but I can't
> seem to find it atm.
>
> Anyways there is not currently anything in avalon to
> do this. If you create
> something and want to contribute it then I am more
> then interested in hearing
> about it and including it if you want ;)
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is
> absurd.
> -- Voltaire
>
>
>
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Re: newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:18, sadaf zargeen wrote:
> This is a message orient application. To properly
> fail-over I would have one instance that is servicing
> requests. Upon failure, the stand-by server(s) would
> detect failure, negotiate its status to come up as the
> primary server amongst possibly other servers and
> start servicing request by picking up where the other
> applicaiton left off. Naturaly this carries many
> implications some of which are:
> - how to negotiate being primary server? rating
> system?
> - how to know where to "pick up"? does this mean
> sharing application state? does this mean sharing
> user session state?
> - if sharing state, using central state/session
> repository(possibly slow, single point of failure) or
> publishing state/session to all other servers
> periodically.
> - what to use as the communication protocol amongst
> servers? socket, jmx(openJMX implementation eg).
This is all interesting questions and I would say that the best way to do this
is to use an application that accesses JMX to do it. We have discussed it
before on one of the mailing lists here but I can't seem to find it atm.
Anyways there is not currently anything in avalon to do this. If you create
something and want to contribute it then I am more then interested in hearing
about it and including it if you want ;)
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
-- Voltaire
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Re: newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
Posted by sadaf zargeen <sa...@yahoo.com>.
--- Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:13, sadaf zargeen wrote:
> > Is there any plans to make Avalon/Phoneix Fault
> > tolerant or build loading-balancing into it or is
> that
> > too application specific to be part of the
> framework.
>
> That is usually application/domain specific though
> we have talked about
where? Wiki or mailing list, cause I couldn't find
anything on mailing list.
> implementing it before. Any ideas?
>
Well just some questions within the context of the
application I am working on that requires failover and
loadbalancing that I wish I could have use Avalon for.
They are generic enought that can find their way into
a framework. The questions deal with failover only
though.
This is a message orient application. To properly
fail-over I would have one instance that is servicing
requests. Upon failure, the stand-by server(s) would
detect failure, negotiate its status to come up as the
primary server amongst possibly other servers and
start servicing request by picking up where the other
applicaiton left off. Naturaly this carries many
implications some of which are:
- how to negotiate being primary server? rating
system?
- how to know where to "pick up"? does this mean
sharing application state? does this mean sharing
user session state?
- if sharing state, using central state/session
repository(possibly slow, single point of failure) or
publishing state/session to all other servers
periodically.
- what to use as the communication protocol amongst
servers? socket, jmx(openJMX implementation eg).
> > I can forsee hot stand-by situation needed where
> one
> > instance of application (with all of its
> components)
> > upon failure would fail over to another running
> > instance of Phonenix. Or the high load on one
> > application can be balanced across multiple
> running
> > Avalon/Phoneix instances with proper sharing of
> > session information for seamless
> > load-balance/fail-over.
>
> The problems is defining "load" - given that it is
> relatively impossible to
> define generically we would need to define some
> mechanism for application to
> expose this and fail conditions. And then another
> monitor application detects
> these status and reacts as appropriate. We already
> have support for this via
> JMX but no one has really gone deep into that level
> of control yet.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> --------------------------------------------
> Beer is proof that God loves us and wants
> us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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Re: newbie question. Load-balancing/Failover in Avalon/Phoneix?
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:13, sadaf zargeen wrote:
> Is there any plans to make Avalon/Phoneix Fault
> tolerant or build loading-balancing into it or is that
> too application specific to be part of the framework.
That is usually application/domain specific though we have talked about
implementing it before. Any ideas?
> I can forsee hot stand-by situation needed where one
> instance of application (with all of its components)
> upon failure would fail over to another running
> instance of Phonenix. Or the high load on one
> application can be balanced across multiple running
> Avalon/Phoneix instances with proper sharing of
> session information for seamless
> load-balance/fail-over.
The problems is defining "load" - given that it is relatively impossible to
define generically we would need to define some mechanism for application to
expose this and fail conditions. And then another monitor application detects
these status and reacts as appropriate. We already have support for this via
JMX but no one has really gone deep into that level of control yet.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
--------------------------------------------
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants
us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
--------------------------------------------
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