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Posted to dev@fineract.apache.org by James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com> on 2021/09/23 15:20:33 UTC
Survey Results 2021 Aug
[Reminder - please stay on thread]
RESULTS: On Tuesday this week I gave a talk at ApacheCON about a few key
themes. One of those was a discussion of the recent Survey that I
advertised here on dev.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August
<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August>
A few key things jump out at me: (commentary).
1) We have a growing number of people who are here (nearly 30%) because of
their workplace. They have been introduced to the project due to where
they work.
I believe this is a sign of a maturing project.
Caveat: Since we did not ask this question before in exactly this way, we
will need to ask it again in a year or two to find out if this is a real
phenomena.
2) n = 41, which is exactly the number of Committers on the project.
Coincidence?!?
or a sign that we're getting a good sample of engaged people?
Next time I will ask if respondents are Committers or members of PMC.
3) Despite not having a formal release out, fineractCN is being used in
production, and (for obvious reasons) clearly forked by a fairly high
percentage of respondents. While fineract1.x is still dominant, the use of
FineractCN by 22% of respondents is super interesting.
4) Related, and a sign of a healthy community, about 50% of the respondents
said that they would be interested in helping with fineractCN despite a
lower percentage actually using it and knowing what changes it entails.
That seems like a vote for Community! It also suggests a strategy: let's
find out what those forks are doing, what domains, what features? [new
thread to be started, related to Architecture working group ]
5) We asked where "your customers are located".... meaning if you are an
integrator or working for one, where are your implementations. Africa
region #1, Americas #2. See the results.
Please feel free to comment here. Please stay on thread... i.e. it should
be about what the survey is telling us, not some other thread.
Thanks
@jdailey@apache.org <jd...@apache.org>
Re: Survey Results 2021 Aug
Posted by Awasum Yannick <aw...@apache.org>.
Hi James,
This is great work. The survey reveals ways we can improve Apache Fineract.
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 4:20 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [Reminder - please stay on thread]
>
> RESULTS: On Tuesday this week I gave a talk at ApacheCON about a few key
> themes. One of those was a discussion of the recent Survey that I
> advertised here on dev.
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August>
>
> A few key things jump out at me: (commentary).
>
> 1) We have a growing number of people who are here (nearly 30%) because
> of their workplace. They have been introduced to the project due to where
> they work.
> I believe this is a sign of a maturing project.
> Caveat: Since we did not ask this question before in exactly this way, we
> will need to ask it again in a year or two to find out if this is a real
> phenomena.
>
This has been true for a long time I think. I got introduced to Apache
Fineract while at my day job in 2015. This means we should engage more with
companies building on top of Fineract as we have always done to encourage
more contributions.
>
> 2) n = 41, which is exactly the number of Committers on the project.
> Coincidence?!?
> or a sign that we're getting a good sample of engaged people?
> Next time I will ask if respondents are Committers or members of PMC.
>
>
Yes, we should ask people if they are PMC members or committers. I think
more non committers or non PMC members have contributed to this survey.
> 3) Despite not having a formal release out, fineractCN is being used in
> production, and (for obvious reasons) clearly forked by a fairly high
> percentage of respondents. While fineract1.x is still dominant, the use of
> FineractCN by 22% of respondents is super interesting.
>
> Fineract CN is a good proposition for companies with the finances to hire
good developers and sophisticated DevOps teams at the moment. The next goal
is to try to optimize and adjust Fineract CN and make it easy to deploy and
easy to make changes. This requires very good Engineers and time. I think
we will get there.
> 4) Related, and a sign of a healthy community, about 50% of the
> respondents said that they would be interested in helping with fineractCN
> despite a lower percentage actually using it and knowing what changes it
> entails. That seems like a vote for Community! It also suggests a
> strategy: let's find out what those forks are doing, what domains, what
> features? [new thread to be started, related to Architecture working group
> ]
>
> 5) We asked where "your customers are located".... meaning if you are an
> integrator or working for one, where are your implementations. Africa
> region #1, Americas #2. See the results.
>
> Please feel free to comment here. Please stay on thread... i.e. it should
> be about what the survey is telling us, not some other thread.
>
I am interested to see more details on the blocker which community members
face when contributing code or docs to Apache Fineract 1.x as well as
Fineract CN. Do you have larger and clearer images of the survey result
analysis? like the one below:
[image: image.png]
> Thanks
> @jdailey@apache.org <jd...@apache.org>
>
Re: Survey Results 2021 Aug
Posted by Awasum Yannick <aw...@apache.org>.
Hi Ankit
On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 12:45 PM Muellners ApS <an...@muellners.org> wrote:
> Thanks James for posting the results and your effort in putting together
> this exercise. The results show a more aware community.
> I have highlighted a few points from the survey report that are quite
> important.
>
> - *The Apache Fineract website and the Getting Started Guide need a
> lot of work. As an example, the first thing the Getting Started guide does
> is confuse users and prompt questions: It says it is "for Fineract 1.x
> (non-CN)". What does that mean? Am I in the right place? What is non-CN?
> Does this apply to me? 1.x? Is there a later version of Fineract?
> Presumably CN stands for Cloud-Native. Surely cloud native is better. But
> where is it? Help! My point is that there is too much of a cognitive load
> when you come into the documentation. In fact I have learned so much more
> from lurking on the Listserv, and I must commend the friendly community. *
>
>
Please can you provide a PR with a better way to present the content on the
website. Here is the link to our website on Github:
https://github.com/apache/fineract-site
> - *The CN vs 1.x question would be much better if it had an open
> answering option, my opinion: CN has driven the community apart, abandoning
> an existing product that has active users on it and businesses relying on
> it like that was not a good decision of the project, and also not one made
> the apache way, it was very much driven by the team at that time pushing
> people onto a tech stack and buzzword bingo whereas the featureset was
> forgotten about (in a similar way it happened between Mifos and MifosX). It
> ultimately drove the efforts of collaboration apart and has resulted in
> various larger implementers/developer teams forking away.*
> - *Fineract CN architecture is too complex for proper contributing *
>
> *The community should set off on a CN architecture review that should be
> given at least 3 months of technical audit, bringing different stakeholders
> together, bridging the differences. *
>
> - *New features implementations are not happening regularly. *
> *Concerned*
> - *Maybe some tutorial videos would be great for the less experienced
> community (I don't know if they already exist) *
> - *User manuals for personnel without financial knowledge. **I know
> some great work that Bharat is doing on revamping this documentation
> together with other community members.*
> - *Have a CI/CD with Quality Assurance and Release Tag in the Source
> Code Repositories form more focused work teams (front back end) to
> streamline development **We need a strong GitHub workflow for partner
> organisations, distributed Dev to get their PR reviews conducted faster
> than the PRs going stale.*
> - *Documentation is scattered and use cases other than micro-finance
> need to be highlighted. There is hardly a senior functional fintech
> influencer connected to the project at Product engineering level. **Industry
> Participation is required.*
>
>
> Most of these point to confusion "*between 1.x and CN, a review of design
> principles of CN, the documentation standards that the project needs to
> improve now"*.
>
> I am really grateful to you for initiating a content change on the website
> to mark CN as under dev & removing the confusion for industry peers, who
> come across the Fineract project.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 5:20 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> [Reminder - please stay on thread]
>>
>> RESULTS: On Tuesday this week I gave a talk at ApacheCON about a few key
>> themes. One of those was a discussion of the recent Survey that I
>> advertised here on dev.
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August
>> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August>
>>
>> A few key things jump out at me: (commentary).
>>
>> 1) We have a growing number of people who are here (nearly 30%) because
>> of their workplace. They have been introduced to the project due to where
>> they work.
>> I believe this is a sign of a maturing project.
>> Caveat: Since we did not ask this question before in exactly this way,
>> we will need to ask it again in a year or two to find out if this is a real
>> phenomena.
>>
>> 2) n = 41, which is exactly the number of Committers on the project.
>> Coincidence?!?
>> or a sign that we're getting a good sample of engaged people?
>> Next time I will ask if respondents are Committers or members of PMC.
>>
>> 3) Despite not having a formal release out, fineractCN is being used in
>> production, and (for obvious reasons) clearly forked by a fairly high
>> percentage of respondents. While fineract1.x is still dominant, the use of
>> FineractCN by 22% of respondents is super interesting.
>>
>> 4) Related, and a sign of a healthy community, about 50% of the
>> respondents said that they would be interested in helping with fineractCN
>> despite a lower percentage actually using it and knowing what changes it
>> entails. That seems like a vote for Community! It also suggests a
>> strategy: let's find out what those forks are doing, what domains, what
>> features? [new thread to be started, related to Architecture working group
>> ]
>>
>> 5) We asked where "your customers are located".... meaning if you are an
>> integrator or working for one, where are your implementations. Africa
>> region #1, Americas #2. See the results.
>>
>> Please feel free to comment here. Please stay on thread... i.e. it
>> should be about what the survey is telling us, not some other thread.
>>
>> Thanks
>> @jdailey@apache.org <jd...@apache.org>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ankit
> Managing Partner
> Muellners ApS, Denmark
>
> Impressum- Muellners® Inc; Copenhagen, Denmark CVR: 41548304;
> New Delhi, India CIN: U72900DL2019PTC344870; Foundation EU CVR:41008407
>
> This mail is governed by Muellners® IT policy.
> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents
> may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
> this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert
> the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any
> attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents
> of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly
> prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be
> monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure
> compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails
> are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be
> intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed
> to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.
>
Re: Survey Results 2021 Aug
Posted by Muellners ApS <an...@muellners.org>.
Thanks James for posting the results and your effort in putting together
this exercise. The results show a more aware community.
I have highlighted a few points from the survey report that are quite
important.
- *The Apache Fineract website and the Getting Started Guide need a lot
of work. As an example, the first thing the Getting Started guide does is
confuse users and prompt questions: It says it is "for Fineract 1.x
(non-CN)". What does that mean? Am I in the right place? What is non-CN?
Does this apply to me? 1.x? Is there a later version of Fineract?
Presumably CN stands for Cloud-Native. Surely cloud native is better. But
where is it? Help! My point is that there is too much of a cognitive load
when you come into the documentation. In fact I have learned so much more
from lurking on the Listserv, and I must commend the friendly community. *
- *The CN vs 1.x question would be much better if it had an open
answering option, my opinion: CN has driven the community apart, abandoning
an existing product that has active users on it and businesses relying on
it like that was not a good decision of the project, and also not one made
the apache way, it was very much driven by the team at that time pushing
people onto a tech stack and buzzword bingo whereas the featureset was
forgotten about (in a similar way it happened between Mifos and MifosX). It
ultimately drove the efforts of collaboration apart and has resulted in
various larger implementers/developer teams forking away.*
- *Fineract CN architecture is too complex for proper contributing *
*The community should set off on a CN architecture review that should be
given at least 3 months of technical audit, bringing different stakeholders
together, bridging the differences. *
- *New features implementations are not happening regularly. **Concerned*
- *Maybe some tutorial videos would be great for the less experienced
community (I don't know if they already exist) *
- *User manuals for personnel without financial knowledge. **I know some
great work that Bharat is doing on revamping this documentation together
with other community members.*
- *Have a CI/CD with Quality Assurance and Release Tag in the Source
Code Repositories form more focused work teams (front back end) to
streamline development **We need a strong GitHub workflow for partner
organisations, distributed Dev to get their PR reviews conducted faster
than the PRs going stale.*
- *Documentation is scattered and use cases other than micro-finance
need to be highlighted. There is hardly a senior functional fintech
influencer connected to the project at Product engineering level.
**Industry
Participation is required.*
Most of these point to confusion "*between 1.x and CN, a review of design
principles of CN, the documentation standards that the project needs to
improve now"*.
I am really grateful to you for initiating a content change on the website
to mark CN as under dev & removing the confusion for industry peers, who
come across the Fineract project.
Thanks
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 5:20 PM James Dailey <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [Reminder - please stay on thread]
>
> RESULTS: On Tuesday this week I gave a talk at ApacheCON about a few key
> themes. One of those was a discussion of the recent Survey that I
> advertised here on dev.
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August
> <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August>
>
> A few key things jump out at me: (commentary).
>
> 1) We have a growing number of people who are here (nearly 30%) because
> of their workplace. They have been introduced to the project due to where
> they work.
> I believe this is a sign of a maturing project.
> Caveat: Since we did not ask this question before in exactly this way, we
> will need to ask it again in a year or two to find out if this is a real
> phenomena.
>
> 2) n = 41, which is exactly the number of Committers on the project.
> Coincidence?!?
> or a sign that we're getting a good sample of engaged people?
> Next time I will ask if respondents are Committers or members of PMC.
>
> 3) Despite not having a formal release out, fineractCN is being used in
> production, and (for obvious reasons) clearly forked by a fairly high
> percentage of respondents. While fineract1.x is still dominant, the use of
> FineractCN by 22% of respondents is super interesting.
>
> 4) Related, and a sign of a healthy community, about 50% of the
> respondents said that they would be interested in helping with fineractCN
> despite a lower percentage actually using it and knowing what changes it
> entails. That seems like a vote for Community! It also suggests a
> strategy: let's find out what those forks are doing, what domains, what
> features? [new thread to be started, related to Architecture working group
> ]
>
> 5) We asked where "your customers are located".... meaning if you are an
> integrator or working for one, where are your implementations. Africa
> region #1, Americas #2. See the results.
>
> Please feel free to comment here. Please stay on thread... i.e. it should
> be about what the survey is telling us, not some other thread.
>
> Thanks
> @jdailey@apache.org <jd...@apache.org>
>
--
Ankit
Managing Partner
Muellners ApS, Denmark
Impressum- Muellners® Inc; Copenhagen, Denmark CVR: 41548304;
New Delhi, India CIN: U72900DL2019PTC344870; Foundation EU CVR:41008407
This mail is governed by Muellners® IT policy.
The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may
contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert
the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any
attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents
of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly
prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be
monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure
compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails
are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be
intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed
to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.