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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> on 2012/01/04 21:27:07 UTC
[VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Hello Incubator IPMC,
Please vote on whether or not to release ManifoldCF 0.4-incubating,
RC2. This RC has passed our podling vote and awaits your inspection.
You can find the artifact at
http://people.apache.org/~kwright/apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, or
in svn at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/lcf/tags/release-0.4-incubating-RC2.
Thanks in advance!
Karl
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Re: PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:26 AM
> Subject: Re: PPMC to IPMC
>
> My opinion: It's one thing to try to involve yourself in the fortunes
> of one or two projects in addition to your own, and be willing to
> provide general opinions, and be willing to contribute content to the
> incubator's policy pages. But the incubator is so huge these days and
> so diverse that just keeping track of the current issues could become
> a major timesink. And there's no obvious mechanism for drawing a
> line, limiting contributions to bite-sized pieces, and keeping
> involvement to a manageable level. Although, I haven't checked out
> JIRA for the incubator; maybe that's a good place to start?
>
> Karl
Karl,
I certainly don't expect you to do anything more than you're already
doing other than to read private@incubator which is normally a low-traffic
mailing list. Yes the incubator is huge, but you already are subbed
to general@incubator and know how to manage your inbox appropriately.
Please continue to do so.
OTOH, if you find time to participate in more generic threads than just
those that pertain to your podling, you are certainly more than welcome
to do so. Even better would be to work on the website of course- one
of my outstanding issues is to convert it to the CMS.
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Re: PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My opinion: It's one thing to try to involve yourself in the fortunes
> of one or two projects in addition to your own, and be willing to
> provide general opinions, and be willing to contribute content to the
> incubator's policy pages. But the incubator is so huge these days and
> so diverse that just keeping track of the current issues could become
> a major timesink. And there's no obvious mechanism for drawing a
> line, limiting contributions to bite-sized pieces, and keeping
> involvement to a manageable level. Although, I haven't checked out
> JIRA for the incubator; maybe that's a good place to start?
Well, there's good news and bad news here. Most concretely, the most
specific 'whole incubator' issue these days is recruiting more members
of the IPMC who are willing to help with overall supervision, and in
particular with reading podling monthly reports before they get
forwarded to the board.
Gall(e)ons of electronic ink are then being spilled about general
principles related to the incubator's governance, including how to
find a balance between overwhelming each other with email and yet how
to talk through a set of hard questions to the point where we find
some consensus.
I would go so far as to invite you as to have an itchy trigger finger
on the delete key in your email reader if you don't have the time to
dive into the philosophical and policy discussions but are stil
willing to supervise one or more podlings and maybe even read more
reports.
>
> Karl
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>To: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>>Cc: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:28 PM
>>>Subject: Re: PPMC to IPMC
>>>
>>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:41:32PM -0800, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>> Taking a larger interest beyond a podling is nice but not required for IPMC
>>>> membership.
>>>
>>>+1, not a requirement.
>>>
>>>> We certainly don't expect members to do anything like that, so why should we
>>>> expect it of non-members?
>>>
>>>Let's separate Incubator policy from my advice to Karl and other potential
>>>IPMC aspirants.
>>>
>>>Regarding Incubator policy, it may be useful to do something as liberal as
>>>placing PPMC members on the IPMC as soon as we think they can be trusted with
>>>a binding vote for their own podling releases. That will also give them a
>>>binding vote on other IPMC issues, but will it cause problems? I dunno.
>>
>>
>> Trust me. Long experience with this issue tells me it won't cause any problems.
>> People generally stay out of situations they are not familiar with, and adults
>> typically recuse themselves from voting on things where there's an obvious
>> conflict of interest going on.
>>
>>
>>>We've talked about shrinking the IPMC to a core of people who really know and
>>>care about the Incubator, and this goes the opposite direction -- but it does
>>>solve some difficult problems without compromising the ASF's legal chain of
>>>authority over releases.
>>
>>
>> The best kind of oversight is COMPETENT oversight. People who understand
>> the policy, intend to respect it, and are actually familiar with the podling's
>> software are in the best position to cast binding votes over it.
>>
>>
>>>For individuals who want to be on the IPMC, you will probably get noticed
>>>faster if you contribute to the Incubator as an instititution -- and even
>>>better, you will gain valuable experience regarding community, legal policies
>>>and how the ASF works which will help your podling succeed over the long haul.
>>>So I think it is in the interest of potential candidates to get involved, even
>>>if the IPMC states that it's not a requirement.
>>
>>
>> Again, very nice, but not at all necessary. Random people running around sticking
>> their fingers in various holes in our oversight woes isn't conducive to sound process.
>> We aim for competent oversight over our podlings, and if there aren't enough
>> mentors available to provide that, let's start sourcing the podling's committers.
>>
>> Preferably starting with RM's who have already successfully managed to release
>> once.
>>
>> It's not exactly rocket science.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
My opinion: It's one thing to try to involve yourself in the fortunes
of one or two projects in addition to your own, and be willing to
provide general opinions, and be willing to contribute content to the
incubator's policy pages. But the incubator is so huge these days and
so diverse that just keeping track of the current issues could become
a major timesink. And there's no obvious mechanism for drawing a
line, limiting contributions to bite-sized pieces, and keeping
involvement to a manageable level. Although, I haven't checked out
JIRA for the incubator; maybe that's a good place to start?
Karl
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>To: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>Cc: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:28 PM
>>Subject: Re: PPMC to IPMC
>>
>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:41:32PM -0800, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>> Taking a larger interest beyond a podling is nice but not required for IPMC
>>> membership.
>>
>>+1, not a requirement.
>>
>>> We certainly don't expect members to do anything like that, so why should we
>>> expect it of non-members?
>>
>>Let's separate Incubator policy from my advice to Karl and other potential
>>IPMC aspirants.
>>
>>Regarding Incubator policy, it may be useful to do something as liberal as
>>placing PPMC members on the IPMC as soon as we think they can be trusted with
>>a binding vote for their own podling releases. That will also give them a
>>binding vote on other IPMC issues, but will it cause problems? I dunno.
>
>
> Trust me. Long experience with this issue tells me it won't cause any problems.
> People generally stay out of situations they are not familiar with, and adults
> typically recuse themselves from voting on things where there's an obvious
> conflict of interest going on.
>
>
>>We've talked about shrinking the IPMC to a core of people who really know and
>>care about the Incubator, and this goes the opposite direction -- but it does
>>solve some difficult problems without compromising the ASF's legal chain of
>>authority over releases.
>
>
> The best kind of oversight is COMPETENT oversight. People who understand
> the policy, intend to respect it, and are actually familiar with the podling's
> software are in the best position to cast binding votes over it.
>
>
>>For individuals who want to be on the IPMC, you will probably get noticed
>>faster if you contribute to the Incubator as an instititution -- and even
>>better, you will gain valuable experience regarding community, legal policies
>>and how the ASF works which will help your podling succeed over the long haul.
>>So I think it is in the interest of potential candidates to get involved, even
>>if the IPMC states that it's not a requirement.
>
>
> Again, very nice, but not at all necessary. Random people running around sticking
> their fingers in various holes in our oversight woes isn't conducive to sound process.
> We aim for competent oversight over our podlings, and if there aren't enough
> mentors available to provide that, let's start sourcing the podling's committers.
>
> Preferably starting with RM's who have already successfully managed to release
> once.
>
> It's not exactly rocket science.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
>________________________________
> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>To: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>Cc: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:28 PM
>Subject: Re: PPMC to IPMC
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:41:32PM -0800, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> Taking a larger interest beyond a podling is nice but not required for IPMC
>> membership.
>
>+1, not a requirement.
>
>> We certainly don't expect members to do anything like that, so why should we
>> expect it of non-members?
>
>Let's separate Incubator policy from my advice to Karl and other potential
>IPMC aspirants.
>
>Regarding Incubator policy, it may be useful to do something as liberal as
>placing PPMC members on the IPMC as soon as we think they can be trusted with
>a binding vote for their own podling releases. That will also give them a
>binding vote on other IPMC issues, but will it cause problems? I dunno.
Trust me. Long experience with this issue tells me it won't cause any problems.
People generally stay out of situations they are not familiar with, and adults
typically recuse themselves from voting on things where there's an obvious
conflict of interest going on.
>We've talked about shrinking the IPMC to a core of people who really know and
>care about the Incubator, and this goes the opposite direction -- but it does
>solve some difficult problems without compromising the ASF's legal chain of
>authority over releases.
The best kind of oversight is COMPETENT oversight. People who understand
the policy, intend to respect it, and are actually familiar with the podling's
software are in the best position to cast binding votes over it.
>For individuals who want to be on the IPMC, you will probably get noticed
>faster if you contribute to the Incubator as an instititution -- and even
>better, you will gain valuable experience regarding community, legal policies
>and how the ASF works which will help your podling succeed over the long haul.
>So I think it is in the interest of potential candidates to get involved, even
>if the IPMC states that it's not a requirement.
Again, very nice, but not at all necessary. Random people running around sticking
their fingers in various holes in our oversight woes isn't conducive to sound process.
We aim for competent oversight over our podlings, and if there aren't enough
mentors available to provide that, let's start sourcing the podling's committers.
Preferably starting with RM's who have already successfully managed to release
once.
It's not exactly rocket science.
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Re: PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:41:32PM -0800, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> Taking a larger interest beyond a podling is nice but not required for IPMC
> membership.
+1, not a requirement.
> We certainly don't expect members to do anything like that, so why should we
> expect it of non-members?
Let's separate Incubator policy from my advice to Karl and other potential
IPMC aspirants.
Regarding Incubator policy, it may be useful to do something as liberal as
placing PPMC members on the IPMC as soon as we think they can be trusted with
a binding vote for their own podling releases. That will also give them a
binding vote on other IPMC issues, but will it cause problems? I dunno.
We've talked about shrinking the IPMC to a core of people who really know and
care about the Incubator, and this goes the opposite direction -- but it does
solve some difficult problems without compromising the ASF's legal chain of
authority over releases.
For individuals who want to be on the IPMC, you will probably get noticed
faster if you contribute to the Incubator as an instititution -- and even
better, you will gain valuable experience regarding community, legal policies
and how the ASF works which will help your podling succeed over the long haul.
So I think it is in the interest of potential candidates to get involved, even
if the IPMC states that it's not a requirement.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
Taking a larger interest beyond a podling is
nice but not required for IPMC membership. We
certainly don't expect members to do anything
like that, so why should we expect it of non-
members?
>________________________________
> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:29 PM
>Subject: PPMC to IPMC
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:52:29PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>> Sounds intriguing. How is this done? I'm afraid I'm vague as to the
>> process by which people become IPMC members.
>
>It's the same as with any other PMC at Apache: an existing PMC member proposes
>a candidate and runs a vote on the private list.
>
>As for what tends to get you on the IPMC (other than the standard track of
>being an ASF Member who wants to Mentor), it's typically taking an interest in
>the Incubator as an entity on its own, rather than focusing on your own narrow
>interest (e.g. a podling). Help with the Incubator website, answer questions
>on general@, review other podling releases (even if you can't cast a binding
>vote), and so on. Familiarize yourself with ASF processes and institutions
>and then demonstrate your expertise by sharing it with others.
>
>Perhaps the IPMC should be more aggressive about recruiting from PPMCs, by
>making it explicit that PPMC members who both know their stuff and give back
>to the Incubator are likely to get nominated for IMPC membership. That would
>certainly help ease some of the long-standing problems associated with Mentor
>attrition.
>
>Marvin Humphrey
>
>
>
>
PPMC to IPMC
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:52:29PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
> Sounds intriguing. How is this done? I'm afraid I'm vague as to the
> process by which people become IPMC members.
It's the same as with any other PMC at Apache: an existing PMC member proposes
a candidate and runs a vote on the private list.
As for what tends to get you on the IPMC (other than the standard track of
being an ASF Member who wants to Mentor), it's typically taking an interest in
the Incubator as an entity on its own, rather than focusing on your own narrow
interest (e.g. a podling). Help with the Incubator website, answer questions
on general@, review other podling releases (even if you can't cast a binding
vote), and so on. Familiarize yourself with ASF processes and institutions
and then demonstrate your expertise by sharing it with others.
Perhaps the IPMC should be more aggressive about recruiting from PPMCs, by
making it explicit that PPMC members who both know their stuff and give back
to the Incubator are likely to get nominated for IMPC membership. That would
certainly help ease some of the long-standing problems associated with Mentor
attrition.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
I was the RM for each release.
Karl
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Let's make this simple for me: I see
> that the project has already successfully
> released 3 times now. Who has been the
>
> RM for each release?
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:02 PM
>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>
>>Generally good mentors recognize candidates
>>from their podlings who would make good IPMC
>>members and nominate them privately, just as
>>podlings nominate members for their own PPMC.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:52 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>>
>>>Sounds intriguing. How is this done? I'm afraid I'm vague as to the
>>>process by which people become IPMC members.
>>>
>>>Karl
>>>
>>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
>>>> in from the ManifoldCF podling. That is exactly
>>>> what we did for Lucy!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>>>>>> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
>>>>>> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
>>>>>> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
>>>>>> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
>>>>>> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
>>>>>> those ARE the rules...)
>>>>>
>>>>>(Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
>>>>>
>>>>>For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
>>>>>ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
>>>>>to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
>>>>>and my limited Java-fu.
>>>>>
>>>>>I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
>>>>>release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
>>>>>
>>>>>I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
>>>>>significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
>>>>>any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
>>>>>
>>>>>Marvin Humphrey
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
Let's make this simple for me: I see
that the project has already successfully
released 3 times now. Who has been the
RM for each release?
>________________________________
> From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:02 PM
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>
>Generally good mentors recognize candidates
>from their podlings who would make good IPMC
>members and nominate them privately, just as
>podlings nominate members for their own PPMC.
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
>>To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:52 PM
>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>
>>Sounds intriguing. How is this done? I'm afraid I'm vague as to the
>>process by which people become IPMC members.
>>
>>Karl
>>
>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
>>> in from the ManifoldCF podling. That is exactly
>>> what we did for Lucy!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>>>>> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
>>>>> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
>>>>> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
>>>>> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
>>>>> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
>>>>> those ARE the rules...)
>>>>
>>>>(Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
>>>>
>>>>For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
>>>>ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
>>>>to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
>>>>and my limited Java-fu.
>>>>
>>>>I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
>>>>release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
>>>>
>>>>I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
>>>>significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
>>>>any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
>>>>
>>>>Marvin Humphrey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
Generally good mentors recognize candidates
from their podlings who would make good IPMC
members and nominate them privately, just as
podlings nominate members for their own PPMC.
>________________________________
> From: Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
>To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:52 PM
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>
>Sounds intriguing. How is this done? I'm afraid I'm vague as to the
>process by which people become IPMC members.
>
>Karl
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
>> in from the ManifoldCF podling. That is exactly
>> what we did for Lucy!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>>
>>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>>>> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
>>>> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
>>>> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
>>>> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
>>>> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
>>>> those ARE the rules...)
>>>
>>>(Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
>>>
>>>For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
>>>ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
>>>to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
>>>and my limited Java-fu.
>>>
>>>I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
>>>release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
>>>
>>>I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
>>>significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
>>>any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
>>>
>>>Marvin Humphrey
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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>
>
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
Sounds intriguing. How is this done? I'm afraid I'm vague as to the
process by which people become IPMC members.
Karl
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
> in from the ManifoldCF podling. That is exactly
> what we did for Lucy!
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>>
>>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>>> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
>>> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
>>> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
>>> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
>>> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
>>> those ARE the rules...)
>>
>>(Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
>>
>>For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
>>ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
>>to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
>>and my limited Java-fu.
>>
>>I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
>>release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
>>
>>I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
>>significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
>>any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
>>
>>Marvin Humphrey
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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RE: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by "Franklin, Matthew B." <mf...@mitre.org>.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jukka Zitting [mailto:jukka.zitting@gmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:51 PM
>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>
>Hi,
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
>> in from the ManifoldCF podling.
>
>Simple and obvious, yet I never thought about this. Thanks for bringing it up!
Having been through 5 incubator releases, I can tell you that having sufficient IPMC members on the project to review the release and cast binding votes makes the process much smoother. However, 2 out of the 5 have required at least one additional vote from an IPMC member on the general list, which requires someone unfamiliar with the project to invest the time to thoroughly review the release. IMO it is important to have enough mentors/IPMC members to be able to release, but that is only a partial solution. The general list still needs to have IPMC members willing to take on the sometimes daunting task of digging through an unfamiliar project to properly review the release.
>
>BR,
>
>Jukka Zitting
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
The battle to allow this for podlings I work on
was fought and won several months ago. It's certainly
time to expand that "experiment" to the rest
of our podlings.
>________________________________
> From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>
>Hi,
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
>> in from the ManifoldCF podling.
>
>Simple and obvious, yet I never thought about this. Thanks for bringing it up!
>
>BR,
>
>Jukka Zitting
>
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>
>
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
> in from the ManifoldCF podling.
Simple and obvious, yet I never thought about this. Thanks for bringing it up!
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
The solution is simple, bring more IPMC members
in from the ManifoldCF podling. That is exactly
what we did for Lucy!
>________________________________
> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
>> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
>> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
>> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
>> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
>> those ARE the rules...)
>
>(Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
>
>For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
>ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
>to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
>and my limited Java-fu.
>
>I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
>release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
>
>I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
>significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
>any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
>
>Marvin Humphrey
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for at least having a look at this!
Even if you find the main release to be too big to look at, the three
ManifoldCF plugins, which have separate release packages (and vote
threads) are quite small with extremely limited dependencies. Maybe
those would be easier to digest? ;-)
Karl
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
>> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
>> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
>> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
>> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
>> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
>> those ARE the rules...)
>
> (Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
>
> For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
> ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
> to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
> and my limited Java-fu.
>
> I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
> release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
>
> I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
> significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
> any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 02:11:49PM -0500, Karl Wright wrote:
> Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
> uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
> amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
> release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
> look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
> those ARE the rules...)
(Apologies in advance that this isn't a VOTE email...)
For what it's worth, I tried to review a release candidate for an earlier
ManifoldCF release, but I had to give up because I just didn't feel qualified
to evaluate the legal aspect given ManifoldCF's large number of dependencies
and my limited Java-fu.
I find it very challenging to step in as a freelance IPMC member to cast a
release vote on a project I haven't been involved with.
I definitely consider the difficulty in scraping up these votes to be a
significant weakness in how the Incubator operates right now, but I don't have
any ideas about how to improve the situation. :(
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, Jukka.
Waiting for the last IPMC vote has become the longest and most
uncertain part of the ManifoldCF release process. Considering the
amount of effort and good work that the committers put into each
release, it's surely not too much to ask for someone here to have a
look at it? (We apologize; we really hate to bother you all, but
those ARE the rules...)
Respectfully,
Karl
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> With Jukka's vote, that's 2 down. We need one more...
>
> Anyone mind helping with the release?
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> With Jukka's vote, that's 2 down. We need one more...
Anyone mind helping with the release?
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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[RESULT][VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
Three binding +1's, >72 hours, vote passes.
Karl
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 from me (binding).
> Karl
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> With Jukka's vote, that's 2 down. We need one more...
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Tommaso Teofili
>> <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Tommaso
>>>
>>> 2012/1/4 Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Hello Incubator IPMC,
>>>>
>>>> Please vote on whether or not to release ManifoldCF 0.4-incubating,
>>>> RC2. This RC has passed our podling vote and awaits your inspection.
>>>> You can find the artifact at
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~kwright/apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, or
>>>> in svn at
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/lcf/tags/release-0.4-incubating-RC2
>>>> .
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me (binding).
Karl
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> With Jukka's vote, that's 2 down. We need one more...
>
> Karl
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Tommaso Teofili
> <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> Tommaso
>>
>> 2012/1/4 Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
>>
>>> Hello Incubator IPMC,
>>>
>>> Please vote on whether or not to release ManifoldCF 0.4-incubating,
>>> RC2. This RC has passed our podling vote and awaits your inspection.
>>> You can find the artifact at
>>> http://people.apache.org/~kwright/apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, or
>>> in svn at
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/lcf/tags/release-0.4-incubating-RC2
>>> .
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
With Jukka's vote, that's 2 down. We need one more...
Karl
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Tommaso Teofili
<to...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Tommaso
>
> 2012/1/4 Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
>
>> Hello Incubator IPMC,
>>
>> Please vote on whether or not to release ManifoldCF 0.4-incubating,
>> RC2. This RC has passed our podling vote and awaits your inspection.
>> You can find the artifact at
>> http://people.apache.org/~kwright/apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, or
>> in svn at
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/lcf/tags/release-0.4-incubating-RC2
>> .
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> Karl
>>
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Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>.
+1
Tommaso
2012/1/4 Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
> Hello Incubator IPMC,
>
> Please vote on whether or not to release ManifoldCF 0.4-incubating,
> RC2. This RC has passed our podling vote and awaits your inspection.
> You can find the artifact at
> http://people.apache.org/~kwright/apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, or
> in svn at
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/lcf/tags/release-0.4-incubating-RC2
> .
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Karl
>
Fwd: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
I think Jukka meant to post this to general@i.a.o...
Karl
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Release apache-manifoldcf-0.4-incubating, RC2
To: Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>
Hi,
+1
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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