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Posted to dev@mina.apache.org by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com> on 2009/04/07 09:59:26 UTC

[DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Hi MINA folks,

Currently I am developing a XMPP[1] server implementation at Apache
Labs[2] called Vysper[3][4] (pronounced 'whisper'). This effort is going
on on and off since 2006, but recently it gained track again and reached
some critical internal milestones (regarding to level of functionality
completed and persistence layer added). Unfortunately, I am the only
contributor to the project until now.

A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
Thanks, Emmanuel!

I gave this a few more thoughts and started to like the idea.
So I'm starting a public discussion about it.

The big advantages for Vysper in the MINA community would be:
+ strong protocol related community,
+ feel at home (Vysper uses MINA for IO),
+ ability to have a dedicated ML and make releases (eventually)
+ benefit from on-site MINA know-how

The advantages for MINA could be:
+ add one more emerging protocol to the MINA roster
+ add one more MINA case to the project with specific interesting IO
needs under high load (hint: Twitter),
+ look into optimizing support for non-line-oriented protocols
+ take Vysper (the software, not the project) as a possible experimental
playground, since the IO layer should be relatively easy to change (for
example changing it to MINA 1.x, 2.x, TRUNK).

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

  Bernd

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
[2] http://labs.apache.org
[3] http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/labs/vysper
[4] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 18:43, Chris Custine <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> I have to admit that I have used Vysper for some testing and tracked the
> code for a while now, but hadn't felt that comfortable relying on it for
> projects until it is out of the lab and using maven for builds, etc.  I
> think moving to MINA is an awesome idea and I think those items would fall
> into place with some additional exposure.  Personally, I would love to help
> do some work at least making Vysper OSGi friendly (haven't checked lately,
> maybe it already is) and even better would be to allow deployment of the
> server and extension via OSGi bundles.  Getting ahead of myself, but you can
> see where I am going with this...  ;-)

Thanks for the feedback :-)

re OSGi and Maven: Vysper is friendly to everthing, but not yet
maveni- or OSGi-zed. ;-)
re code and maturity: Things have improved over Feb/Mar: code,
extendability, javadocs and wiki. I think it's definitively worth a
look now for early adopters.

  Bernd

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Chris Custine <ch...@gmail.com>.
+1

I have to admit that I have used Vysper for some testing and tracked the
code for a while now, but hadn't felt that comfortable relying on it for
projects until it is out of the lab and using maven for builds, etc.  I
think moving to MINA is an awesome idea and I think those items would fall
into place with some additional exposure.  Personally, I would love to help
do some work at least making Vysper OSGi friendly (haven't checked lately,
maybe it already is) and even better would be to allow deployment of the
server and extension via OSGi bundles.  Getting ahead of myself, but you can
see where I am going with this...  ;-)

Chris

--
Chris Custine
FUSESource :: http://fusesource.com
My Blog :: http://blog.organicelement.com
Apache ServiceMix :: http://servicemix.apache.org
Apache Directory Server :: http://directory.apache.org


On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Bernd Fondermann <
bernd.fondermann@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi MINA folks,
>
> Currently I am developing a XMPP[1] server implementation at Apache
> Labs[2] called Vysper[3][4] (pronounced 'whisper'). This effort is going
> on on and off since 2006, but recently it gained track again and reached
> some critical internal milestones (regarding to level of functionality
> completed and persistence layer added). Unfortunately, I am the only
> contributor to the project until now.
>
> A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
> Thanks, Emmanuel!
>
> I gave this a few more thoughts and started to like the idea.
> So I'm starting a public discussion about it.
>
> The big advantages for Vysper in the MINA community would be:
> + strong protocol related community,
> + feel at home (Vysper uses MINA for IO),
> + ability to have a dedicated ML and make releases (eventually)
> + benefit from on-site MINA know-how
>
> The advantages for MINA could be:
> + add one more emerging protocol to the MINA roster
> + add one more MINA case to the project with specific interesting IO
> needs under high load (hint: Twitter),
> + look into optimizing support for non-line-oriented protocols
> + take Vysper (the software, not the project) as a possible experimental
> playground, since the IO layer should be relatively easy to change (for
> example changing it to MINA 1.x, 2.x, TRUNK).
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  Bernd
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
> [2] http://labs.apache.org
> [3] http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/labs/vysper
> [4] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Mark Webb <el...@gmail.com>.
I think its a great idea!!  +1

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Ashish <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the final take on Vysper as a subproject?
>
> - ashish
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Niklas Gustavsson <ni...@protocol7.com>.
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Emmanuel Lecharny
<el...@apache.org> wrote:
> Niklas Gustavsson wrote:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200809.mbox/%3C48C64112.4020406@rowe-clan.net%3E

So it seems like we could just move the code over, given that MINA
formally accepts it as a sub project. Should we start a formal vote?

>> If we can, I'll be happy to help out with the practicalities. Also, I
>> assume Bernd would need to be voted in as a MINA committer, right?
>
> Right !

I guess this is better done after the project is voted into MINA.

/niklas

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com>.
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 10:24, Niklas Gustavsson <ni...@protocol7.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Bernd Fondermann
>> There have been different opinions on this [moving code from Labs to subproject of TLP]. It has never been executed
>> before. So this is the first try.
>>
>> If the code would have to go through Incubator (via an IP clearance
>> vote) this wouldn't be a big thing, too.
>
> Would you mind starting a discussion over a labs about this? I'll join
> the list and follow along.
>
> /niklas

I started a thread about it [1]. Re-reading what was previously said
about this topic, all concerns are about a lab wanting to become TLP.
There are no concerns AFAIS about a lab going to an existing TLP as subproject.
But we will see. No response yet.

  Bernd

[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/labs-labs/200904.mbox/%3C49E3148A.9000102@brainlounge.de%3E

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com>.
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 10:24, Niklas Gustavsson <ni...@protocol7.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Bernd Fondermann
> <be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> plus some degree of
>>>>>> mavenization
>>
>> ugh. :-/
>
> We can probably help out with this :-)
>
>>>>>> and headers cleaning would be necessary,
>>
>> You mean, adding "@author The Apache Directory project"? ;-)
>>
>>>>>> and last, not
>>>>>> least, a
>>>>>> general formating (using MINA code formatter)
>>
>> where can I get that from?
>> I have some specific code formatting at some specific lines (where
>> XMPP stanzas are built). I'd like to see what it does to them.
>
> Here's the documented guidelines for MINA:
> http://mina.apache.org/developer-guide.html
>
>> There have been different opinions on this. It has never been executed
>> before. So this is the first try.
>>
>> If the code would have to go through Incubator (via an IP clearance
>> vote) this wouldn't be a big thing, too.
>
> Would you mind starting a discussion over a labs about this? I'll join
> the list and follow along.

I'll do that as soon as possible.

  Bernd

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Niklas Gustavsson <ni...@protocol7.com>.
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Bernd Fondermann
<be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> plus some degree of
>>>>> mavenization
>
> ugh. :-/

We can probably help out with this :-)

>>>>> and headers cleaning would be necessary,
>
> You mean, adding "@author The Apache Directory project"? ;-)
>
>>>>> and last, not
>>>>> least, a
>>>>> general formating (using MINA code formatter)
>
> where can I get that from?
> I have some specific code formatting at some specific lines (where
> XMPP stanzas are built). I'd like to see what it does to them.

Here's the documented guidelines for MINA:
http://mina.apache.org/developer-guide.html

> There have been different opinions on this. It has never been executed
> before. So this is the first try.
>
> If the code would have to go through Incubator (via an IP clearance
> vote) this wouldn't be a big thing, too.

Would you mind starting a discussion over a labs about this? I'll join
the list and follow along.

/niklas

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com>.
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 00:54, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org> wrote:
> Niklas Gustavsson wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Alex Karasulu <ak...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Emmanuel Lecharny
>>> <el...@apache.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> just before leaving, I think that the first step should be to move
>>>> Vysper
>>>> from labs to MINA sandbox.

+1

>>>> Then a bit of IP clearance should be done
>>>> (mainly
>>>> checking if the jars are license compatible),

+1

>>>> plus some degree of
>>>> mavenization

ugh. :-/

>>>> and headers cleaning would be necessary,

You mean, adding "@author The Apache Directory project"? ;-)

>>>> and last, not
>>>> least, a
>>>> general formating (using MINA code formatter)

where can I get that from?
I have some specific code formatting at some specific lines (where
XMPP stanzas are built). I'd like to see what it does to them.

>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don't the folks over at labs do IP vetting?
>>>
>>
>> I think they do, but I agree that it might we worth rechecking after
>> the project is moved to MINA.

+1, although Labs is not excluded from doing IP clearance.

> There is nothing such as IP vetting in labs, IFAIK. However, as labs are
> reserved for committers, I guess that those who have a labs already know
> about this IP issue.
>>
>> However, looking at the Labs site, I found this description of lab
>> project states:
>> http://labs.apache.org/faq.html#q7
>>
>> They seem to assume that projects go to the incubator after labs,
>> rather directly to a project like MINA. I do not subscribe to the labs
>> list, could someone who does confirm that we would be allowed to move
>> the code directly to MINA?

There have been different opinions on this. It has never been executed
before. So this is the first try.

If the code would have to go through Incubator (via an IP clearance
vote) this wouldn't be a big thing, too.

The Vysper code was developed alone by myself as a personal endeavour
(Labs was not existing back then), and when the Lab was established,
it was simply svn imported. All patches up to now where made by ASF
committers, except for today's commit, contributed through a JIRA, by
an GSoC applicant, committed by me.

  Bernd

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>.
Niklas Gustavsson wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Alex Karasulu <ak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>wrote:
>>     
>>> just before leaving, I think that the first step should be to move Vysper
>>> from labs to MINA sandbox. Then a bit of IP clearance should be done (mainly
>>> checking if the jars are license compatible), plus some degree of
>>> mavenization and headers cleaning would be necessary, and last, not least, a
>>> general formating (using MINA code formatter) and we are golden.
>>>
>>>       
>> Don't the folks over at labs do IP vetting?
>>     
>
> I think they do, but I agree that it might we worth rechecking after
> the project is moved to MINA.
>   
There is nothing such as IP vetting in labs, IFAIK. However, as labs are 
reserved for committers, I guess that those who have a labs already know 
about this IP issue.
> However, looking at the Labs site, I found this description of lab
> project states:
> http://labs.apache.org/faq.html#q7
>
> They seem to assume that projects go to the incubator after labs,
> rather directly to a project like MINA. I do not subscribe to the labs
> list, could someone who does confirm that we would be allowed to move
> the code directly to MINA?
>   
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200809.mbox/%3C48C64112.4020406@rowe-clan.net%3E

So we can promote the project as a MINA sub-project, it seems.
> If we can, I'll be happy to help out with the practicalities. Also, I
> assume Bernd would need to be voted in as a MINA committer, right?
>   
Right !


-- 
--
cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
directory.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Niklas Gustavsson <ni...@protocol7.com>.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Alex Karasulu <ak...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>wrote:
>> just before leaving, I think that the first step should be to move Vysper
>> from labs to MINA sandbox. Then a bit of IP clearance should be done (mainly
>> checking if the jars are license compatible), plus some degree of
>> mavenization and headers cleaning would be necessary, and last, not least, a
>> general formating (using MINA code formatter) and we are golden.
>>
>
> Don't the folks over at labs do IP vetting?

I think they do, but I agree that it might we worth rechecking after
the project is moved to MINA.

However, looking at the Labs site, I found this description of lab
project states:
http://labs.apache.org/faq.html#q7

They seem to assume that projects go to the incubator after labs,
rather directly to a project like MINA. I do not subscribe to the labs
list, could someone who does confirm that we would be allowed to move
the code directly to MINA?

If we can, I'll be happy to help out with the practicalities. Also, I
assume Bernd would need to be voted in as a MINA committer, right?

/niklas

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just before leaving, I think that the first step should be to move Vysper
> from labs to MINA sandbox. Then a bit of IP clearance should be done (mainly
> checking if the jars are license compatible), plus some degree of
> mavenization and headers cleaning would be necessary, and last, not least, a
> general formating (using MINA code formatter) and we are golden.
>

Don't the folks over at labs do IP vetting?

-- 
Alex Karasulu
My Blog :: http://www.jroller.com/akarasulu/
Apache Directory Server :: http://directory.apache.org
Apache MINA :: http://mina.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>.
Hi,

just before leaving, I think that the first step should be to move Vysper from labs to MINA sandbox. Then a bit of IP clearance should be done (mainly checking if the jars are license compatible), plus some degree of mavenization and headers cleaning would be necessary, and last, not least, a general formating (using MINA code formatter) and we are golden.

Nothing than a few days of work, then we can update the web site, move the code fram sandbox to trunk, maybe releasing a pre-version (0.x) and announce the whole move.

I won't be able to help, but I'm sure that some volunteers around MINA can !

Let's try to make it smooth and easy :)

-- 
--
cordialement, regards,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
directory.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Ashish <pa...@gmail.com>.
> MINA people,
>
> Many thanks for the very warm welcome! :-)
>
> Yes, I think you need to have a vote.
>
> When it comes to bureaucracy, I am not so sure. Only one project every
> moved out of Labs staying at the ASF, going to the Incubator. Vysper
> would be the first to move to another project and not incubate.
>
> If and when your vote is successfull, I will take care for the
> relevant steps on the Labs side. I'll keep you updated here.
> However, since you are very experienced with receiving projects, I
> would appreciate any hints and support you might give...
>
> BTW, the codebase for Vysper is here:
>  http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/
>
> Thanks again,
>  Bernd

Had a brief look at the code. May be you would like to check the file header's.
Its slightly different than what is used in MINA. Having consistency
is always good

Will try to explore soon

Let me know if I can be of help :-)

thanks
ashish

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 18:29, Julien Vermillard <jv...@archean.fr> wrote:
> Le Wed, 8 Apr 2009 22:39:07 +0530,
> Ashish <pa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> What's the final take on Vysper as a subproject?
>>
>> - ashish
>
> I suppose we need to start a formal vote and since it's a Apache Lab
> project, we won't suffer too much bureaucratia.
>
> Julien

MINA people,

Many thanks for the very warm welcome! :-)

Yes, I think you need to have a vote.

When it comes to bureaucracy, I am not so sure. Only one project every
moved out of Labs staying at the ASF, going to the Incubator. Vysper
would be the first to move to another project and not incubate.

If and when your vote is successfull, I will take care for the
relevant steps on the Labs side. I'll keep you updated here.
However, since you are very experienced with receiving projects, I
would appreciate any hints and support you might give...

BTW, the codebase for Vysper is here:
  http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/

Thanks again,

  Bernd

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Julien Vermillard <jv...@archean.fr>.
Le Wed, 8 Apr 2009 22:39:07 +0530,
Ashish <pa...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> What's the final take on Vysper as a subproject?
> 
> - ashish

I suppose we need to start a formal vote and since it's a Apache Lab
project, we won't suffer too much bureaucratia.

Julien

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Ashish <pa...@gmail.com>.
What's the final take on Vysper as a subproject?

- ashish

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Irving, Dave
<da...@bankofamerica.com>wrote:

>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Bernd Fondermann
> <be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> > possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
>
> +1 from me too :)


<OT>
Hey Dave good to see you out there - we need you back here!
</OT>

Yes this is absolutely a great move. Kudos to Emmanuel and others who made
the connection to move the project to MINA. I'm excited just thinking about
the potential.

Alex

-- 
Alex Karasulu
My Blog :: http://www.jroller.com/akarasulu/
Apache Directory Server :: http://directory.apache.org
Apache MINA :: http://mina.apache.org
Apache Felix :: http://felix.apache.org
Apache Wicket :: http://wicket.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Ashish <pa...@gmail.com>.
> One of the reason we discussed with Bernd during ApacheCon was that I
> needed a 'smart' XML parser, and Vysper obviously has one. The problem
> I had was that all the Java XML parsers I know of aren't able to stop
> parsing in the middle of a tag and start again without complaining
> with a hell lot of Exceptions.
>
> For instance, if you receive "<ta" when the full tag is "<tag>", then
> the parser will complain. I would expect the parser to simply returns,
> storing the current state somwhere, and restart smoothly when the next
> few bytes are received. Maybe this 'smart' statefull parser exist
> however...



> So let's suppose it does not exist : we need to extend some existing
> parser in order to accept the inherently fragmented nature of TCP
> messages. Otherwise, you have to do what Vysper does : pre-parse,
> heading for the closing '>', expecting that the user didn't
> encapsulate any comments in its XML file !

My code example has this flaw, that it was 2 stage parsing, first
collect the complete XML
and then use any parser Jibx or any XML Data binding framework to get the POJO
something similar to Vysper.

>
> Is this too much to ask for? Is there a java XML parser already
> wirking the way I want it to work ? If so, please tell me ! Otherwise,
> we might want to extend xerces, or something like XPP3
> (http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/xgws/xsoap/xpp/mxp1/index.html)
>
> wdyt ?

StAX parser can be a possible solution, though my experience is
limited wth StAX parsers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StAX


Either way's, its very much doable and interesting :-)

What many people would like is use of a Data binding framework along
with, so the decoder has to be smart.
May be with a hook for easy customization.

-- 
thanks
ashish

Blog: http://www.ashishpaliwal.com/blog
My Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/ashishpaliwal

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>.
One of the reason we discussed with Bernd during ApacheCon was that I
needed a 'smart' XML parser, and Vysper obviously has one. The problem
I had was that all the Java XML parsers I know of aren't able to stop
parsing in the middle of a tag and start again without complaining
with a hell lot of Exceptions.

For instance, if you receive "<ta" when the full tag is "<tag>", then
the parser will complain. I would expect the parser to simply returns,
storing the current state somwhere, and restart smoothly when the next
few bytes are received. Maybe this 'smart' statefull parser exist
however...

So let's suppose it does not exist : we need to extend some existing
parser in order to accept the inherently fragmented nature of TCP
messages. Otherwise, you have to do what Vysper does : pre-parse,
heading for the closing '>', expecting that the user didn't
encapsulate any comments in its XML file !

Is this too much to ask for? Is there a java XML parser already
wirking the way I want it to work ? If so, please tell me ! Otherwise,
we might want to extend xerces, or something like XPP3
(http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/xgws/xsoap/xpp/mxp1/index.html)

wdyt ?

-- 
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com

RE: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by "Irving, Dave" <da...@bankofamerica.com>.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Bernd Fondermann
<be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.

+1 from me too :)




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Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Niklas Gustavsson <ni...@protocol7.com>.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Bernd Fondermann
<be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.

Big +1 from me. I'm also interested in contributing to this project
(with whatever available time I might have).

/niklas

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Ashish <pa...@gmail.com>.
> Hi MINA folks,
>
> Currently I am developing a XMPP[1] server implementation at Apache
> Labs[2] called Vysper[3][4] (pronounced 'whisper'). This effort is going
> on on and off since 2006, but recently it gained track again and reached
> some critical internal milestones (regarding to level of functionality
> completed and persistence layer added). Unfortunately, I am the only
> contributor to the project until now.

I would say, a good job.

> A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
> Thanks, Emmanuel!
>
> I gave this a few more thoughts and started to like the idea.
> So I'm starting a public discussion about it.
>
> The big advantages for Vysper in the MINA community would be:
> + strong protocol related community,
> + feel at home (Vysper uses MINA for IO),
> + ability to have a dedicated ML and make releases (eventually)
> + benefit from on-site MINA know-how
>
> The advantages for MINA could be:
> + add one more emerging protocol to the MINA roster
> + add one more MINA case to the project with specific interesting IO
> needs under high load (hint: Twitter),
> + look into optimizing support for non-line-oriented protocols
> + take Vysper (the software, not the project) as a possible experimental
> playground, since the IO layer should be relatively easy to change (for
> example changing it to MINA 1.x, 2.x, TRUNK).

Well I did came to Vysper, when we had a long discussion on XML
decoder. A while back, had a chance to
work on XMPP, (openser, openfire etc). We were prototyping something
on XMPP. So its good to have it here.

I am not that good a coder, but can try to help, with whatever I have

+1

- ashish

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@savoirtech.com>.
+1... excellent!

Jeff


On Apr 7, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Julien Vermillard wrote:

> Hi
> Due to the number of people asking for XMPP support, I can only  
> welcome
> this idea.
>
> After reading a bit of code, some suggestions :
> - using mvn ;) since all mina modules & subproject use it
> - modularize like Asyncweb in at least two part, one for pojo/codec,
>   one for the server so you can choose to use only the codec module if
>   you want to do embed simple xmpp messaging in existing app, look  
> like
>   it's enjoyed for http
> - even if your code and the packaging is nice and clear, you will
>   need more javadoc if you want to attract more contributors
>
> Big +1
>
> Julien
>
> Le Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:32:39 +0200,
> Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org> a écrit :
>
>> Hi Bernd,
>>
>> you have obviously my full support ! We already have welcomed
>> FtpServer, which now has 3 committers (congrat Niklas ! Good job !)
>> and sshd brought by Guillaume Nodet. I think that Vysper will be very
>> comfortable in this warm MINA place :) I also think that it will help
>> Vysper to gain visibility (ie, new committers), and will fill a hole
>> at MINA (many users are asking about how to implement XMPP on top of
>> MINA)
>>
>> Wdyt guys ?
>>
>> On 4/7/09, Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi MINA folks,
>>>
>>> Currently I am developing a XMPP[1] server implementation at Apache
>>> Labs[2] called Vysper[3][4] (pronounced 'whisper'). This effort is
>>> going on on and off since 2006, but recently it gained track again
>>> and reached some critical internal milestones (regarding to level
>>> of functionality completed and persistence layer added).
>>> Unfortunately, I am the only contributor to the project until now.
>>>
>>> A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
>>> possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
>>> Thanks, Emmanuel!
>>>
>>> I gave this a few more thoughts and started to like the idea.
>>> So I'm starting a public discussion about it.
>>>
>>> The big advantages for Vysper in the MINA community would be:
>>> + strong protocol related community,
>>> + feel at home (Vysper uses MINA for IO),
>>> + ability to have a dedicated ML and make releases (eventually)
>>> + benefit from on-site MINA know-how
>>>
>>> The advantages for MINA could be:
>>> + add one more emerging protocol to the MINA roster
>>> + add one more MINA case to the project with specific interesting IO
>>> needs under high load (hint: Twitter),
>>> + look into optimizing support for non-line-oriented protocols
>>> + take Vysper (the software, not the project) as a possible
>>> experimental playground, since the IO layer should be relatively
>>> easy to change (for example changing it to MINA 1.x, 2.x, TRUNK).
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Bernd
>>>
>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
>>> [2] http://labs.apache.org
>>> [3] http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/labs/vysper
>>> [4] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Julien Vermillard <jv...@archean.fr>.
Hi 
Due to the number of people asking for XMPP support, I can only welcome
this idea.

After reading a bit of code, some suggestions :
 - using mvn ;) since all mina modules & subproject use it
 - modularize like Asyncweb in at least two part, one for pojo/codec,
   one for the server so you can choose to use only the codec module if
   you want to do embed simple xmpp messaging in existing app, look like
   it's enjoyed for http 
 - even if your code and the packaging is nice and clear, you will
   need more javadoc if you want to attract more contributors

Big +1

Julien

Le Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:32:39 +0200,
Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org> a écrit :

> Hi Bernd,
> 
> you have obviously my full support ! We already have welcomed
> FtpServer, which now has 3 committers (congrat Niklas ! Good job !)
> and sshd brought by Guillaume Nodet. I think that Vysper will be very
> comfortable in this warm MINA place :) I also think that it will help
> Vysper to gain visibility (ie, new committers), and will fill a hole
> at MINA (many users are asking about how to implement XMPP on top of
> MINA)
> 
> Wdyt guys ?
> 
> On 4/7/09, Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Hi MINA folks,
> >
> > Currently I am developing a XMPP[1] server implementation at Apache
> > Labs[2] called Vysper[3][4] (pronounced 'whisper'). This effort is
> > going on on and off since 2006, but recently it gained track again
> > and reached some critical internal milestones (regarding to level
> > of functionality completed and persistence layer added).
> > Unfortunately, I am the only contributor to the project until now.
> >
> > A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> > possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
> > Thanks, Emmanuel!
> >
> > I gave this a few more thoughts and started to like the idea.
> > So I'm starting a public discussion about it.
> >
> > The big advantages for Vysper in the MINA community would be:
> > + strong protocol related community,
> > + feel at home (Vysper uses MINA for IO),
> > + ability to have a dedicated ML and make releases (eventually)
> > + benefit from on-site MINA know-how
> >
> > The advantages for MINA could be:
> > + add one more emerging protocol to the MINA roster
> > + add one more MINA case to the project with specific interesting IO
> > needs under high load (hint: Twitter),
> > + look into optimizing support for non-line-oriented protocols
> > + take Vysper (the software, not the project) as a possible
> > experimental playground, since the IO layer should be relatively
> > easy to change (for example changing it to MINA 1.x, 2.x, TRUNK).
> >
> > Any thoughts on this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >  Bernd
> >
> > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
> > [2] http://labs.apache.org
> > [3] http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/labs/vysper
> > [4] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/
> >
> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Moving Vysper lab to MINA as a sub-product

Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@apache.org>.
Hi Bernd,

you have obviously my full support ! We already have welcomed
FtpServer, which now has 3 committers (congrat Niklas ! Good job !)
and sshd brought by Guillaume Nodet. I think that Vysper will be very
comfortable in this warm MINA place :) I also think that it will help
Vysper to gain visibility (ie, new committers), and will fill a hole
at MINA (many users are asking about how to implement XMPP on top of
MINA)

Wdyt guys ?

On 4/7/09, Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi MINA folks,
>
> Currently I am developing a XMPP[1] server implementation at Apache
> Labs[2] called Vysper[3][4] (pronounced 'whisper'). This effort is going
> on on and off since 2006, but recently it gained track again and reached
> some critical internal milestones (regarding to level of functionality
> completed and persistence layer added). Unfortunately, I am the only
> contributor to the project until now.
>
> A few days ago at ACEU09 I spoke to Emmanuel and he had the idea of
> possibly making Vysper a sub-project of MINA.
> Thanks, Emmanuel!
>
> I gave this a few more thoughts and started to like the idea.
> So I'm starting a public discussion about it.
>
> The big advantages for Vysper in the MINA community would be:
> + strong protocol related community,
> + feel at home (Vysper uses MINA for IO),
> + ability to have a dedicated ML and make releases (eventually)
> + benefit from on-site MINA know-how
>
> The advantages for MINA could be:
> + add one more emerging protocol to the MINA roster
> + add one more MINA case to the project with specific interesting IO
> needs under high load (hint: Twitter),
> + look into optimizing support for non-line-oriented protocols
> + take Vysper (the software, not the project) as a possible experimental
> playground, since the IO layer should be relatively easy to change (for
> example changing it to MINA 1.x, 2.x, TRUNK).
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  Bernd
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
> [2] http://labs.apache.org
> [3] http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/labs/vysper
> [4] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/labs/vysper/
>


-- 
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com