Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>]

Hey all -

So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked out
about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins. I
think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map. =)
Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any specific
concrete tasks that need to be tackled?

A.

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Jochen Theodorou <bl...@gmx.org>]

Am 04.10.2017 um 14:26 schrieb Andrew Bayer:
> Hey all -
>
> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked out
> about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins. I
> think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map.
> =) Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any
> specific concrete tasks that need to be tackled?

Let me try to give a rough impression on the things that work and that 
do not:

usage of JDK9 like JDK8 with classpath: works if no hidden APIs are used

JDK9 features that will not work properly:
* Groovy is no module, so there can be no named module, that depends on 
Groovy
* It is unclear if Groovy can work as automatic module
* Making Groovy a named module will require working with layers most 
likely, this is not fully investigated
* Joint compilation with modules will be troublesome because of the 
problems above
* the nasty reflection warnings are not really preventing Groovy from 
working, but fixing this will mean to change the meta class 
initialization logic from an half eager mode to an fully lazy approach, 
which is an extremely big task, of which I am not fully sure we can 
actually do it.
* doing the actual method call with reflection is now more restricted 
(or I should say it will require more command line based opening of 
modules) then for example a MethodHandles based implementation. That is 
because they (Java Platform team) can just not keep their fingers away 
from basing calls on the caller (and make the wrong assumption about who 
the caller is in our case)
...

But I really wonder what of these things is currently preventing Jenkins 
from using Groovy on JDK9?

bye Jochen

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>]

With respect to reporting errors that Cédric mentioned, we know about the
generic initial warning on startup. So, any other errors we are interested
in.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 12:25 AM, Cédric Champeau <ce...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I would say a good step forward is to report errors people see with
> running Groovy on JDK 9 on JIRA right now. Because Groovy _does run_ on JDK
> 9. Only it does with lots of unfriendly warnings (and will stop working
> with JDK 10/18.3). If there are showstoppers, we're not aware of them.
>
> 2017-10-04 16:18 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>:
>
>> No worries - I just wanted to get the ball rolling and get myself aware
>> of things so that I can calm Jenkins people down that no, we won't be stuck
>> on Java 8 forever. =)
>>
>> A.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> We have discussed a few things quite often but don't have a definitive
>>> list of remaining tasks. There are a mix of big and small tasks, so we
>>> should definitely try to carve off a list of tasks that aren't too hard for
>>> others to do. I won't get time to look at this until next week.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Paul.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey all -
>>>>
>>>> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked
>>>> out about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins.
>>>> I think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
>>>> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map. =)
>>>> Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any specific
>>>> concrete tasks that need to be tackled?
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Cédric Champeau <ce...@gmail.com>]

Cool, that's at least one good news :)

2017-10-04 17:00 GMT+02:00 Remi Forax <fo...@univ-mlv.fr>:

> Cedric,
> the illegal access flag will still be present in 18.3. It will be removed
> later, it's not clear when exactly (it will depend on the adoption).
>
> Rémi
>
>
>
>
>
> On October 4, 2017 4:25:28 PM GMT+02:00, "Cédric Champeau" <
> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would say a good step forward is to report errors people see with
>> running Groovy on JDK 9 on JIRA right now. Because Groovy _does run_ on JDK
>> 9. Only it does with lots of unfriendly warnings (and will stop working
>> with JDK 10/18.3). If there are showstoppers, we're not aware of them.
>>
>> 2017-10-04 16:18 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> No worries - I just wanted to get the ball rolling and get myself aware
>>> of things so that I can calm Jenkins people down that no, we won't be stuck
>>> on Java 8 forever. =)
>>>
>>> A.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> We have discussed a few things quite often but don't have a definitive
>>>> list of remaining tasks. There are a mix of big and small tasks, so we
>>>> should definitely try to carve off a list of tasks that aren't too hard for
>>>> others to do. I won't get time to look at this until next week.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Paul.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all -
>>>>>
>>>>> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked
>>>>> out about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins.
>>>>> I think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
>>>>> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map. =)
>>>>> Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any specific
>>>>> concrete tasks that need to be tackled?
>>>>>
>>>>> A.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Remi Forax <fo...@univ-mlv.fr>]

Cedric,
the illegal access flag will still be present in 18.3. It will be removed later, it's not clear when exactly  (it will depend on the adoption).

Rémi




On October 4, 2017 4:25:28 PM GMT+02:00, "Cédric Champeau" <ce...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I would say a good step forward is to report errors people see with
>running
>Groovy on JDK 9 on JIRA right now. Because Groovy _does run_ on JDK 9.
>Only
>it does with lots of unfriendly warnings (and will stop working with
>JDK
>10/18.3). If there are showstoppers, we're not aware of them.
>
>2017-10-04 16:18 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>:
>
>> No worries - I just wanted to get the ball rolling and get myself
>aware of
>> things so that I can calm Jenkins people down that no, we won't be
>stuck on
>> Java 8 forever. =)
>>
>> A.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> We have discussed a few things quite often but don't have a
>definitive
>>> list of remaining tasks. There are a mix of big and small tasks, so
>we
>>> should definitely try to carve off a list of tasks that aren't too
>hard for
>>> others to do. I won't get time to look at this until next week.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Paul.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Andrew Bayer
><an...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey all -
>>>>
>>>> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit
>freaked out
>>>> about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to
>Jenkins. I
>>>> think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy +
>Java 9,
>>>> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a
>map. =)
>>>> Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any
>specific
>>>> concrete tasks that need to be tackled?
>>>>
>>>> A.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Cédric Champeau <ce...@gmail.com>]

I would say a good step forward is to report errors people see with running
Groovy on JDK 9 on JIRA right now. Because Groovy _does run_ on JDK 9. Only
it does with lots of unfriendly warnings (and will stop working with JDK
10/18.3). If there are showstoppers, we're not aware of them.

2017-10-04 16:18 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>:

> No worries - I just wanted to get the ball rolling and get myself aware of
> things so that I can calm Jenkins people down that no, we won't be stuck on
> Java 8 forever. =)
>
> A.
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> We have discussed a few things quite often but don't have a definitive
>> list of remaining tasks. There are a mix of big and small tasks, so we
>> should definitely try to carve off a list of tasks that aren't too hard for
>> others to do. I won't get time to look at this until next week.
>>
>> Cheers, Paul.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all -
>>>
>>> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked out
>>> about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins. I
>>> think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
>>> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map. =)
>>> Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any specific
>>> concrete tasks that need to be tackled?
>>>
>>> A.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>]

No worries - I just wanted to get the ball rolling and get myself aware of
things so that I can calm Jenkins people down that no, we won't be stuck on
Java 8 forever. =)

A.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> We have discussed a few things quite often but don't have a definitive
> list of remaining tasks. There are a mix of big and small tasks, so we
> should definitely try to carve off a list of tasks that aren't too hard for
> others to do. I won't get time to look at this until next week.
>
> Cheers, Paul.
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey all -
>>
>> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked out
>> about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins. I
>> think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
>> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map. =)
>> Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any specific
>> concrete tasks that need to be tackled?
>>
>> A.
>>
>
>

Re: Next steps for Groovy and Java 9?

[Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>]

Hi Andrew,

We have discussed a few things quite often but don't have a definitive list
of remaining tasks. There are a mix of big and small tasks, so we should
definitely try to carve off a list of tasks that aren't too hard for others
to do. I won't get time to look at this until next week.

Cheers, Paul.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Andrew Bayer <an...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hey all -
>
> So over in the Jenkins project, we're more than a little bit freaked out
> about Groovy + Java 9, since Groovy is absolutely critical to Jenkins. I
> think I can carve out time to work on the problems with Groovy + Java 9,
> but to a certain extent, I'd be jumping into the jungle without a map. =)
> Do we have any kind of roadmap for what needs to be done, or any specific
> concrete tasks that need to be tackled?
>
> A.
>