Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>]

I also like the idea of a commons core.  However we do run the problem
of
what to put in there.  I like the idea of importing one medium sized JAR
as
opposed to several mini-JARs for my projects.  If that means that
Commons
Core has Pattern, Lang, Collections (nice package), and *possibly* CLI,
I think that Commons Core would be an excellent package.

However the charter would be difficult to manage.  If Core is strictly
an
integration project, we have to draw the lines of what gets integrated.
Unless of course, Core is something that will build a custom JAR for
you based on the other Commons projects.  I think that would rock for
a general useability standpoint, but from a maintenance and release
standpoint, it would be a nightmare.

Anyhoo, Core is a nicety and something I would like to see happen.


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>]

I'm not very sure - the idea is to pick the commons components you need
in a project. This is getting harder.

What would be the criteria to include in core ? What if you have multiple
components doing the same thing ( perfectly acceptable in commons ) ?

I'm not very comfortable with too many interdependencies ( and recursive
dependencies ) in the commons. IMO some packages are becoming bloated,
and we may turn into a spaghetti mess.

Costin



Berin Loritsch wrote:

> I also like the idea of a commons core.  However we do run the problem
> of
> what to put in there.  I like the idea of importing one medium sized JAR
> as
> opposed to several mini-JARs for my projects.  If that means that
> Commons
> Core has Pattern, Lang, Collections (nice package), and *possibly* CLI,
> I think that Commons Core would be an excellent package.
> 
> However the charter would be difficult to manage.  If Core is strictly
> an
> integration project, we have to draw the lines of what gets integrated.
> Unless of course, Core is something that will build a custom JAR for
> you based on the other Commons projects.  I think that would rock for
> a general useability standpoint, but from a maintenance and release
> standpoint, it would be a nightmare.
> 
> Anyhoo, Core is a nicety and something I would like to see happen.




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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>]

Yes, it must be better to integrate.
 It is not a big problem with jars, but integrated documentation can be very
useful.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
Cc: <bl...@apache.org>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)


>
>
> On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Juozas Baliuka wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:25:12 +0200
> > From: Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>
> > Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List
<co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>,
> >      bloritsch@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)
> >
> > Yes, it is impossible to find "good" packages for "core",
> > but I think we can find some better name for "small" packages in single
> > "medium" project,
> > I do not propose any "supper common project", just merge some dependant
code
> > .
> >
>
> It would be a pretty easy mechanical exercise to produce a
> "commons-combo.jar" that just incorporated the latest released version of
> all the packages in commons proper (plus created integrated Javadocs --
> that would be pretty useful just by itself).  Such a thing could be
> updated whenever any particular component package did a release.
>
> That way, we wouldn't need to fight any political battles over what is
> "core" and what is not :-).
>
> Craig
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com>
> > To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>;
> > <bl...@apache.org>
> > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 8:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Anyhoo, Core is a nicety and something I would like to see happen.
> > >
> > > An important thing for us all to keep in mind is that Core will be as
good
> > > as the parts [marketing blah blah]. So until we get all the parts
ready
> > > and shining, Core remains a pipedream.
> > >
> > > I agree with CLI/Collections being Core-focus.
> > >
> > > Hen
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

["Michael A. Smith" <ma...@apache.org>]

Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
> It would be a pretty easy mechanical exercise to produce a
> "commons-combo.jar" that just incorporated the latest released version of
> all the packages in commons proper (plus created integrated Javadocs --
> that would be pretty useful just by itself).  Such a thing could be
> updated whenever any particular component package did a release.
> 
> That way, we wouldn't need to fight any political battles over what is
> "core" and what is not :-).

+1

regards,
michael


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

["Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>]

On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Stephen Colebourne wrote:

> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:25:06 +0100
> From: Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>
> Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)
>
> > From: "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>
> > > From: Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>
> > > Yes, it is impossible to find "good" packages for "core",
> > > but I think we can find some better name for "small" packages in single
> > > "medium" project,
> > > I do not propose any "supper common project", just merge some dependant
> code
> > > .
> > >
> >
> > It would be a pretty easy mechanical exercise to produce a
> > "commons-combo.jar" that just incorporated the latest released version of
> > all the packages in commons proper (plus created integrated Javadocs --
> > that would be pretty useful just by itself).  Such a thing could be
> > updated whenever any particular component package did a release.
> >
> > That way, we wouldn't need to fight any political battles over what is
> > "core" and what is not :-).
>
> I am in favour of a single 'core' / 'combo' jar file at some point. However,
> we are not yet at that point. IMO the best approach is to work as
> independent projects, producing the merged jar as an additional jar at the
> end. Anything else will cause us to lose focus.
>

Oh, I agree totally that the projects remain independent.  It's just an
added checklist item for the release manager of a package such that,
whenever you do a release, you also cut an updated version of the combo
jar.  The combo doesn't have to exist as a "project" or anything -- it is
just a useful artifact that makes downloading easier for people that use
lots of commons packages.

Maintaining the script that creates the combo distribution would be a
shared responsibility of all commons committers, just as maintaining the
sources for the web pages is today.

> Stephen

Craig


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>]

> From: "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>
> > From: Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>
> > Yes, it is impossible to find "good" packages for "core",
> > but I think we can find some better name for "small" packages in single
> > "medium" project,
> > I do not propose any "supper common project", just merge some dependant
code
> > .
> >
>
> It would be a pretty easy mechanical exercise to produce a
> "commons-combo.jar" that just incorporated the latest released version of
> all the packages in commons proper (plus created integrated Javadocs --
> that would be pretty useful just by itself).  Such a thing could be
> updated whenever any particular component package did a release.
>
> That way, we wouldn't need to fight any political battles over what is
> "core" and what is not :-).

I am in favour of a single 'core' / 'combo' jar file at some point. However,
we are not yet at that point. IMO the best approach is to work as
independent projects, producing the merged jar as an additional jar at the
end. Anything else will cause us to lose focus.

Stephen


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>]

On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 09:33 PM, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:

<snip>

> It would be a pretty easy mechanical exercise to produce a
> "commons-combo.jar" that just incorporated the latest released version of
> all the packages in commons proper (plus created integrated Javadocs --
> that would be pretty useful just by itself).  Such a thing could be
> updated whenever any particular component package did a release.

+1

it's funny - but i was about to propose exactly this :)

once betwixt (for example) is released, it's likely that it's dependency 
graph will come to five or six commons packages. it'd be very convenient 
to have all the latest releases rolled up together in a single jar.

- robert


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

["Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>]

On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Juozas Baliuka wrote:

> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:25:12 +0200
> From: Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>
> Reply-To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Jakarta Commons Developers List <co...@jakarta.apache.org>,
>      bloritsch@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)
>
> Yes, it is impossible to find "good" packages for "core",
> but I think we can find some better name for "small" packages in single
> "medium" project,
> I do not propose any "supper common project", just merge some dependant code
> .
>

It would be a pretty easy mechanical exercise to produce a
"commons-combo.jar" that just incorporated the latest released version of
all the packages in commons proper (plus created integrated Javadocs --
that would be pretty useful just by itself).  Such a thing could be
updated whenever any particular component package did a release.

That way, we wouldn't need to fight any political battles over what is
"core" and what is not :-).

Craig


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com>
> To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>;
> <bl...@apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)
>
>
> >
> >
> > > Anyhoo, Core is a nicety and something I would like to see happen.
> >
> > An important thing for us all to keep in mind is that Core will be as good
> > as the parts [marketing blah blah]. So until we get all the parts ready
> > and shining, Core remains a pipedream.
> >
> > I agree with CLI/Collections being Core-focus.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>]

Yes, it is impossible to find "good" packages for "core",
but I think we can find some better name for "small" packages in single
"medium" project,
I do not propose any "supper common project", just merge some dependant code
.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Henri Yandell" <ba...@generationjava.com>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>;
<bl...@apache.org>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)


>
>
> > Anyhoo, Core is a nicety and something I would like to see happen.
>
> An important thing for us all to keep in mind is that Core will be as good
> as the parts [marketing blah blah]. So until we get all the parts ready
> and shining, Core remains a pipedream.
>
> I agree with CLI/Collections being Core-focus.
>
> Hen
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>


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Re: Commons Core (was RE: [pattern][lang] Cross dependecy)

[Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>]

> Anyhoo, Core is a nicety and something I would like to see happen.

An important thing for us all to keep in mind is that Core will be as good
as the parts [marketing blah blah]. So until we get all the parts ready
and shining, Core remains a pipedream.

I agree with CLI/Collections being Core-focus.

Hen


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