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Posted to cvs@avalon.apache.org by do...@apache.org on 2002/04/04 14:14:47 UTC
cvs commit: jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/newbie-issues part1.txt part2.txt part3.txt part4.txt
donaldp 02/04/04 04:14:47
Added: src/proposal/newbie-issues part1.txt part2.txt part3.txt
part4.txt
Log:
Add the newbie issues docs so we can get around to fixing the problems.
Revision Changes Path
1.1 jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/newbie-issues/part1.txt
Index: part1.txt
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From leosimons@apache.org Tue Apr 2 07:06:05 2002
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From: "Leo Simons" <le...@apache.org>
To: "Avalon Development" <av...@jakarta.apache.org>
Subject: the ultimate newbie test, part 1
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:06:05 +0200
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I did some testing. Goal: figure out where we don't pass
the easy-for-the-newbie test.
Part 1: building avalon; building distributions
Framework: no problems
Logkit: no problems
Cornerstone: no problems
Phoenix: no problems
Excalibur: partial failure
Apps: complete failure
The problem with Excalibur is that the scratchpad build
target doesn't work correctly. There appear to be some
problems with other modules as well. As this is worked
on as I type (I think), I won't go into it for now.
The problem with Apps is that the build process just
isn't user friendly. There's no build.bat, no
readme, not for any of the hosted applications.
note: On the test system, the dist target for the
framework used an excessive amount of time and memory.
This is mostly due to cocoon, which in current setup is
clearly overkill.
note 2: with a vanilla install of the latest cygwin,
nothing woiked. This is due to both cygwin being stupid
and the build.sh file apparantly not working to well.
I'm no good at unix shell programming, let alone fake
unix shell programming.
note 3: this is a really bad test as it makes many
assumptions.
DATA USED
---------
Test system:
pentium II 350, 256MB ram,
windows 2000 server,
sun jdk 1.3.1,
current cvs checkouts of all avalon projects,
nothing else in classpath.
JAVA_HOME=F:\Programs\programming\java\ide\JBuilder\jdk1.3.1
ANT_HOME=F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon\tools
LOCAL_AVALON_TOOLS=F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon\tools*
* I had to set this for excalibur to find the correct ant
extensions. Otherwise, something with the relative paths
goes wrong somewhere...
using windows shell:
Framework:
F:\>cd \sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon>build
(...)
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon>build dist
BUILD SUCCESSFUL*
* Total time: 6 minutes 43 seconds
Peak Memory usage: 71 MB
Logkit:
F:\>cd \sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-logkit
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon>build
(...)
BUILD SUCCESSFUL*
* warnings about missing dependencies, which is ok.
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-logkit>build dist
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Phoenix:
F:\>cd \sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-phoenix
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon>build
(...)
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-logkit>build dist
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Cornerstone:
F:\>cd \sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-cornerstone
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon>build
(...)
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-logkit>build dist
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Avalon-apps:
F:\>cd \sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-apps
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-apps>build
bad command or filename
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-apps>dir readme*.*
File not found
(...)
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-apps\demo>build
bad command or filename
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-apps\demo>ant
bad command or filename
Excalibur:
F:\>cd \sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-excalibur
F:\Sources\cvs\jakarta\jakarta-avalon-excalibur>build
(...)
BUILD FAILED*
* has a problem with scratchpad - needs the event code.
Jeff's working on this.
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1.1 jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/newbie-issues/part2.txt
Index: part2.txt
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From leosimons@apache.org Tue Apr 2 07:23:35 2002
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From: "Leo Simons" <le...@apache.org>
To: "Avalon Development" <av...@jakarta.apache.org>
Subject: the ultimate newbie test, part 2
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:23:35 +0200
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Part 2: evaluating avalon; using the website
1) link to jakarta main does not work
2) there's no getting started
3) it's called Apache Server Framework,
but it is a component library as well?
4) so, where's the binary?
5) so, where's the User manual?
6) are there any releases at all???
I think I'll just go and download that
web services kit from sun; it looks nice
and easy.
In short: you already need an idea of what
Avalon is about, or you really need to be
sure it is what you need to use to be
interested. If you don't, the first link out
of that avalon thing doesn't even work.
Also, understanding even the first few
paragraphs requires knowledge of terms
like "design pattern". These are explained
in other places, but they're not linked
to when the words first appear.
- Leo
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1.1 jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/newbie-issues/part3.txt
Index: part3.txt
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From leosimons@apache.org Tue Apr 2 08:01:29 2002
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Subject: the ultimate newbie test, part 3
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part 3: searches for and about Avalon
Where to find an example of using avalon?
-----------------------------------------
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ajakarta.apache.org+jakarta+avalo
n+example
So you download and run JAMES, which works. So Avalon
is useful indeed. But according to its documentation,
it uses a snapshot that is several months old! So this
probably isn't the best example. But where is it?
How to find out about it in the first place?
--------------------------------------------
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=server+framework - second link
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=server+component - not in first 50
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Java/Server-
Side/Libraries_and_Frameworks/?tc=1 - second link
http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Programming_and_Development/Lang
uages/Java/ - not in yahoo! directory
http://www.theserverside.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?config=htdig&restrict=&exclude
=&method=and&format=long&sort=score&words=server+framework - second link
not bad, not bad at all.
How well are we advertised by projects that use us?
---------------------------------------------------
JAMES - http://jakarta.apache.org/james/ - top-of-first-page
Cocoon - http://xml.apache.org - not found! -
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Axml.apache.org%2Fcocoon+avalon
EOB - http://eob.sourceforge.net/ - bottom-of-first-page
Jesktop - http://www.jesktop.org/ - bottom-of-first-page
Sort-of-okay. I'm a bit dissapointed Cocoon doesn't advertise
its use of Avalon more. Then again, it doesn't mention it uses
xerces or xalan either, at least not prominently.
Overall, I'm not dissapointed =)
- Leo
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1.1 jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/newbie-issues/part4.txt
Index: part4.txt
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From leo@leosimons.com Wed Apr 3 00:28:25 2002
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Subject: The ultimate newbie guide, part 4
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part 4: downloading and installing
Assuming you've figured out you need to get your downloads from jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-avalon, how easy is it to download and install?
It's obvious you need a 'release'.
Cornerstone: empty. That won't work.
Excalibur: select the latest one, click, unzip or untar. Select readme.txt. Redirects to online docs. Those redirect to the api docs. Those redirect to the avalon docs. Problems with those have already been pointed out. Could do with examples and more docs in general. Should mention local docs.
Framework: select the latest one, click, unzip or untar. Select readme.txt. Redirects to online docs. Problems with those have already been pointed out. Could do with examples and more docs in general. Should mention local docs.
Logkit: select the latest one, click, unzip or untar. Select readme.txt. Redirects to online docs. Easy to read and use. Should mention local docs.
Phoenix: select the latest one, click, unzip or untar. Select readme.txt. Tells you to execute run.bat/sh and checkout the docs dir. There's a getting started document. This mentioned a hello world application. However, the described response from run.bat/sh is not reproduced.
Apps: not even listed.
Downloading is easy enough (cornerstone and apps perhaps don't have to be easy to download yet). Logkit is easy to follow; it works as described. Phoenix is promising but the documentation is out of date. Framework and Excalibur basically tell you to browse the javadocs to figure out what to do with them.
regards,
- Leo
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