Web services configuration?

[Julia Tertyshnaya <te...@ftw.at>]

Hello everybody,

is there some standard way to configure web services at startup (setting
some params)? Does Axis provide some means for that?

Thanks for help,

Julia

Re: Web services configuration?

[Steve Loughran <st...@iseran.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Barber" <jo...@acm.org>
To: <ax...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 04:29
Subject: Re: Web services configuration?


> Michael D. Spence wrote:
>
> >>I've been wondering the same myself.  As far as I can see there is no
> >>such facility, so you may have to do something with having a config
> >>servlet (that doesn't server anything to users) that starts up first,
> >>reads in params via the usual web.xml route, and then have a factory
> >>class to provide config details to your web service.
> >>
> >>Is there a better way ?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I just used a properties file and java.util.Properties.
> >
> >
> >
> Fair enough, and I know that would work as well.  I just prefer it when
> you can use a method like the web.inf  to set them.

You can have per-webapp properties set in the wsdd, and you can read them
through some means that escapes me right now. Similarly, global properties
can be set in the global section of the WSDD file, *or* on web.xml in the
AxisServlet config area. or you can plug in your own config engine to read
data from a different place, like an ldap context.

Re: Web services configuration?

[Jon Barber <jo...@acm.org>]

Michael D. Spence wrote:

>>I've been wondering the same myself.  As far as I can see there is no 
>>such facility, so you may have to do something with having a config 
>>servlet (that doesn't server anything to users) that starts up first, 
>>reads in params via the usual web.xml route, and then have a factory 
>>class to provide config details to your web service.
>>
>>Is there a better way ?
>>    
>>
>
>I just used a properties file and java.util.Properties.
>
>  
>
Fair enough, and I know that would work as well.  I just prefer it when 
you can use a method like the web.inf  to set them.

But then, as I said you could use a factory and get that to supply the 
config details.  Behind the scenes it could either use the servlet 
config or a properties file.  You could set the concrete class that 
implements the factory interface as a property.

Jon.

RE: Web services configuration?

["Michael D. Spence" <sp...@panix.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Barber [mailto:jon.barber@acm.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:08 AM
> To: axis-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Web services configuration?
> 
> 
> Julia Tertyshnaya wrote:
> 
> >Hello everybody,
> >
> >is there some standard way to configure web services at 
> startup (setting
> >some params)? Does Axis provide some means for that?
> >
> I've been wondering the same myself.  As far as I can see there is no 
> such facility, so you may have to do something with having a config 
> servlet (that doesn't server anything to users) that starts up first, 
> reads in params via the usual web.xml route, and then have a factory 
> class to provide config details to your web service.
> 
> Is there a better way ?

I just used a properties file and java.util.Properties.

Re: Web services configuration?

[Jon Barber <jo...@acm.org>]

Julia Tertyshnaya wrote:

>Hello everybody,
>
>is there some standard way to configure web services at startup (setting
>some params)? Does Axis provide some means for that?
>
>Thanks for help,
>
>Julia
>
>
>  
>
I've been wondering the same myself.  As far as I can see there is no 
such facility, so you may have to do something with having a config 
servlet (that doesn't server anything to users) that starts up first, 
reads in params via the usual web.xml route, and then have a factory 
class to provide config details to your web service.

Is there a better way ?

Jon.

Re: Web services configuration?

[Steve Loughran <st...@iseran.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Ewins" <Br...@btinternet.com>
To: <ax...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 05:39
Subject: Re: Web services configuration?


> From the J2EE standpoint:
>
> As JAXRPC is part of the J2EE stack, you're supposed to use JNDI for
> configuring a service to know about the environment it is running in;
> though there are other kinds of config.

Though of course Axis doesnt need j2ee, and even JAXRPC has to worry about
client side stuff.

> Envrironment-specific configuration is something you shouldn't put in a
> web.xml, or anywhere else in your .war[1]. If you do so, you will need
> to edit the contents of the .war after deployment, or create multiple
> builds. This means that either upgrades will overwrite your config, or
> that your test build is not the same as your live build - recipes for
> disaster.

I've been known to use hostname specific xml config files; the webapp gets
its hostname then loads the file. This lets us build one file for multiple
(known) installations, and stops us relying on operations to configure
things. And it keeps all config data under SCM, which is nice. But it doesnt
scale out...you cant change a config on a live cluster without redeploying.

Ideally I'd like JNDI with versioning, and somehow the dev team get access
to it too.

> Runtime config is supposed to be done by JMX, but JMX says nothing about
> persistence of configuration (other than 'use EJBs', I suppose), and
> tool support for JMX isnt great yet.

I'm thinking JMX support might be a nice add-on in axis1.2, but would need
help there. We could use it for finding objects like AxisEngine and for
internal notifications.

>I had kinda hoped the Preferences
> API would have helped here but it doesnt fit at all well with web apps.

Not the base implementations, no. We'd need an XML file wrapper and a JNDI
version.

Re: Web services configuration?

[Brian Ewins <Br...@btinternet.com>]

Anne Thomas Manes wrote:
> One problem with this theory. The target platform for JAX-RPC (per JSR 101)
> is J2SE.  It will be included in J2EE 1.4, but it doesn't require J2EE.
> 
> Anne

True. JAX-RPC servers are only required to support Servlet 2.3, and 
"Servlet containers that are not part of a J2EE technology compliant 
implementation are encouraged, but not required, to implement the 
application environment functionality described in the J2EE specification."

However, the problems I described with putting environment-specific 
config in your webapp remain in a J2SE environment. J2SE doesnt try to 
tackle this problem, I guess the best you can do is use system 
properties to get your per-container bootstrap configuration, instead of 
JNDI. eg. -Dmy.axis.config.db=jdbc:blah:blah@blah/blah, or 
-Dmy.axis.config.file=C:\banana\monkey.properties , then do something 
app-specific from there on.

Cheers,
	Baz

> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Ewins [mailto:Brian.Ewins@btinternet.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:39 AM
>>To: axis-user@xml.apache.org
>>Subject: Re: Web services configuration?
>>
>>
>> From the J2EE standpoint:
>>
>>As JAXRPC is part of the J2EE stack, you're supposed to use JNDI for
>>configuring a service to know about the environment it is running in;
>>though there are other kinds of config.
>>
>>Envrironment-specific configuration is something you shouldn't put in a
>>web.xml, or anywhere else in your .war[1]. If you do so, you will need
>>to edit the contents of the .war after deployment, or create multiple
>>builds. This means that either upgrades will overwrite your config, or
>>that your test build is not the same as your live build - recipes for
>>disaster.
>>
>>On the other hand, the web.xml and/or properties files are exactly the
>>right place to describe how to assemble components into an application -
>>all the config thats independent of the environment you are
>>deploying into.
>>
>>In our apps, we use a mix of properties files and web.xml for things
>>done in the J2EE 'Application Assembler' role. At deployment time (ie in
>>the 'Deployer' role) we use JNDI to fetch a small amout of read-only
>>info[2], usually just DB connection details, so the app can get up and
>>running. Once running, we use our own database backed code to grab
>>config (the stuff done in the J2EE 'System Administrator' role).
>>
>>Runtime config is supposed to be done by JMX, but JMX says nothing about
>>persistence of configuration (other than 'use EJBs', I suppose), and
>>tool support for JMX isnt great yet. I had kinda hoped the Preferences
>>API would have helped here but it doesnt fit at all well with web apps.
>>
>>Anyway, I rambled a bit, but my point was that it helps to think which
>>bits of your config would be done by each role in the J2EE spec; J2EE
>>uses the deployment descriptor, JNDI, and JMX respectively for the three
>>kinds of config, but JMX support isnt mature.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>	Baz
>>
>>[1] An example of a mistake like this is that the datasource config in
>>Struts 1.0's struts-config.xml. This is a disaster waiting to happen,
>>because it /demands/ that your struts-config files are different on each
>>server you deploy your webapp.
>>[2] Things may have changed here, but IIRC the most recent servlet spec
>>still only allows you to rely on read-only JNDI. BTW, I centralise
>>access to JNDI config in my app setup; most of classes are 'pushed'
>>config, rather than pulling it from JNDI, for reasons similar to those
>>described here:
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/guide-patterns-ioc.html
>>and because it is easier to unit test classes if you work this way.
>>
>>Julia Tertyshnaya wrote:
>>
>>>Hello everybody,
>>>
>>>is there some standard way to configure web services at startup (setting
>>>some params)? Does Axis provide some means for that?
>>>
>>>Thanks for help,
>>>
>>>Julia
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

RE: Web services configuration?

[Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>]

One problem with this theory. The target platform for JAX-RPC (per JSR 101)
is J2SE.  It will be included in J2EE 1.4, but it doesn't require J2EE.

Anne

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ewins [mailto:Brian.Ewins@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:39 AM
> To: axis-user@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Web services configuration?
>
>
>  From the J2EE standpoint:
>
> As JAXRPC is part of the J2EE stack, you're supposed to use JNDI for
> configuring a service to know about the environment it is running in;
> though there are other kinds of config.
>
> Envrironment-specific configuration is something you shouldn't put in a
> web.xml, or anywhere else in your .war[1]. If you do so, you will need
> to edit the contents of the .war after deployment, or create multiple
> builds. This means that either upgrades will overwrite your config, or
> that your test build is not the same as your live build - recipes for
> disaster.
>
> On the other hand, the web.xml and/or properties files are exactly the
> right place to describe how to assemble components into an application -
> all the config thats independent of the environment you are
> deploying into.
>
> In our apps, we use a mix of properties files and web.xml for things
> done in the J2EE 'Application Assembler' role. At deployment time (ie in
> the 'Deployer' role) we use JNDI to fetch a small amout of read-only
> info[2], usually just DB connection details, so the app can get up and
> running. Once running, we use our own database backed code to grab
> config (the stuff done in the J2EE 'System Administrator' role).
>
> Runtime config is supposed to be done by JMX, but JMX says nothing about
> persistence of configuration (other than 'use EJBs', I suppose), and
> tool support for JMX isnt great yet. I had kinda hoped the Preferences
> API would have helped here but it doesnt fit at all well with web apps.
>
> Anyway, I rambled a bit, but my point was that it helps to think which
> bits of your config would be done by each role in the J2EE spec; J2EE
> uses the deployment descriptor, JNDI, and JMX respectively for the three
> kinds of config, but JMX support isnt mature.
>
> Cheers,
> 	Baz
>
> [1] An example of a mistake like this is that the datasource config in
> Struts 1.0's struts-config.xml. This is a disaster waiting to happen,
> because it /demands/ that your struts-config files are different on each
> server you deploy your webapp.
> [2] Things may have changed here, but IIRC the most recent servlet spec
> still only allows you to rely on read-only JNDI. BTW, I centralise
> access to JNDI config in my app setup; most of classes are 'pushed'
> config, rather than pulling it from JNDI, for reasons similar to those
> described here:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/guide-patterns-ioc.html
> and because it is easier to unit test classes if you work this way.
>
> Julia Tertyshnaya wrote:
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > is there some standard way to configure web services at startup (setting
> > some params)? Does Axis provide some means for that?
> >
> > Thanks for help,
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
>

Re: Web services configuration?

[Brian Ewins <Br...@btinternet.com>]

 From the J2EE standpoint:

As JAXRPC is part of the J2EE stack, you're supposed to use JNDI for 
configuring a service to know about the environment it is running in; 
though there are other kinds of config.

Envrironment-specific configuration is something you shouldn't put in a 
web.xml, or anywhere else in your .war[1]. If you do so, you will need 
to edit the contents of the .war after deployment, or create multiple 
builds. This means that either upgrades will overwrite your config, or 
that your test build is not the same as your live build - recipes for 
disaster.

On the other hand, the web.xml and/or properties files are exactly the 
right place to describe how to assemble components into an application - 
all the config thats independent of the environment you are deploying into.

In our apps, we use a mix of properties files and web.xml for things 
done in the J2EE 'Application Assembler' role. At deployment time (ie in 
the 'Deployer' role) we use JNDI to fetch a small amout of read-only 
info[2], usually just DB connection details, so the app can get up and 
running. Once running, we use our own database backed code to grab 
config (the stuff done in the J2EE 'System Administrator' role).

Runtime config is supposed to be done by JMX, but JMX says nothing about 
persistence of configuration (other than 'use EJBs', I suppose), and 
tool support for JMX isnt great yet. I had kinda hoped the Preferences 
API would have helped here but it doesnt fit at all well with web apps.

Anyway, I rambled a bit, but my point was that it helps to think which 
bits of your config would be done by each role in the J2EE spec; J2EE 
uses the deployment descriptor, JNDI, and JMX respectively for the three 
kinds of config, but JMX support isnt mature.

Cheers,
	Baz

[1] An example of a mistake like this is that the datasource config in 
Struts 1.0's struts-config.xml. This is a disaster waiting to happen, 
because it /demands/ that your struts-config files are different on each 
server you deploy your webapp.
[2] Things may have changed here, but IIRC the most recent servlet spec 
still only allows you to rely on read-only JNDI. BTW, I centralise 
access to JNDI config in my app setup; most of classes are 'pushed' 
config, rather than pulling it from JNDI, for reasons similar to those 
described here:
http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/guide-patterns-ioc.html
and because it is easier to unit test classes if you work this way.

Julia Tertyshnaya wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> is there some standard way to configure web services at startup (setting
> some params)? Does Axis provide some means for that?
> 
> Thanks for help,
> 
> Julia
> 
>