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Posted to log4j-cvs@jakarta.apache.org by ce...@apache.org on 2001/06/13 21:44:49 UTC

cvs commit: jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support AbeMirrashidi.html AlexBlewitt.html AndersKristensen.html AndyDePue.html BrentSprecher.html CarlBacher.html ChristopherTaylor.html CourtDemas.html DanTanner.html DavidMaharaj.html DavidOwens.html EllisTeer.html EndreStolsvik.html EoinFlood.html GuyLichtman.html HenrikFredholm.html HenrikLundahl.html HenryLi.html JamesProkash.html JasonHeirtzler.html JasonKitcat.html JoeLoda.html Joh Munsch.html JohnMunsch.html JohnVolkar.html JonStevens.html KnutErikBallestad.html MichaelMoser.html MichaelStacey.html NelsonMinar.html PaulGrinchenko.html RalfHaug.html RichardWilliams.html RobertMahoney.html RonJacobs.html StacyCurl.html SteveWingfield.html ThomasFenner.html TonyDean.html WilliamJaynes.html index.html

ceki        01/06/13 12:44:48

  Modified:    docs     critique.html
  Added:       docs/pub-support AbeMirrashidi.html AlexBlewitt.html
                        AndersKristensen.html AndyDePue.html
                        BrentSprecher.html CarlBacher.html
                        ChristopherTaylor.html CourtDemas.html
                        DanTanner.html DavidMaharaj.html DavidOwens.html
                        EllisTeer.html EndreStolsvik.html EoinFlood.html
                        GuyLichtman.html HenrikFredholm.html
                        HenrikLundahl.html HenryLi.html JamesProkash.html
                        JasonHeirtzler.html JasonKitcat.html JoeLoda.html
                        Joh Munsch.html JohnMunsch.html JohnVolkar.html
                        JonStevens.html KnutErikBallestad.html
                        MichaelMoser.html MichaelStacey.html
                        NelsonMinar.html PaulGrinchenko.html RalfHaug.html
                        RichardWilliams.html RobertMahoney.html
                        RonJacobs.html StacyCurl.html SteveWingfield.html
                        ThomasFenner.html TonyDean.html WilliamJaynes.html
                        index.html
  Log:
  Added the support emails we have received so far.
  
  Revision  Changes    Path
  1.3       +61 -22    jakarta-log4j/docs/critique.html
  
  Index: critique.html
  ===================================================================
  RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-log4j/docs/critique.html,v
  retrieving revision 1.2
  retrieving revision 1.3
  diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3
  --- critique.html	2001/06/13 00:20:32	1.2
  +++ critique.html	2001/06/13 19:44:38	1.3
  @@ -25,7 +25,7 @@
   
   <p>Before delving into the details, some historical perspective is in
   order. I am the founder of the log4j project. I participated in the
  -specification of the JSR47 API although not as an expert. In 1999, I
  +specification of the JSR47 API, although not as an expert. In 1999, I
   was still working for IBM and big blue had already Chris Barlock as a
   member in the JSR47 experts group. Chris is the author of <a
   href="http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/loggingtoolkit4j">IBM's
  @@ -35,12 +35,12 @@
   API. In particular, the two share the same basic components, namely
   loggers, levels, handlers and formatters. In log4j, these components
   are called categories, priorities, appenders and layouts
  -respectively. Pairwise, they are similar in purpose. As such, the
  +respectively. Pairwise, they are identical in purpose. As such, the
   terms logger and category, level and priority, handler and appender,
   formatter and layout will be used interchangeably in the remainder of
   this document.
   
  -<p>Even after a casual glance it should be apparent that the log4j and
  +<p>Even after a casual review it should be apparent that the log4j and
   JSR47 APIs are <em>very</em> similar. For one, they are the only
   logging APIs which are based on a named hierarchy. If you understand
   one API, then understanding the other is trivial. There are
  @@ -58,11 +58,11 @@
   contains a link to its parent but a parent does not have links to its
   children.
   
  -<p>At first glance, this might look like a trivial implementation
  +<p>At first glance, this might look like a mundane implementation
   detail but it is actually quite fundamental.
   
   <ol>
  -<p><b><li>Configutation order matters</b>
  +<p><b><li>Configuration order matters</b>
   
   <p>In JSR47, when you set the level of a logger, say
   <code>wombat</code>, JSR47 traverses the tree below
  @@ -75,11 +75,11 @@
   of a single field. Children categories dynamically inherit the
   priority of their parent by traversing the hierarchy tree upwards.
   
  -<p>It follows that if you configure the level for logger "foo.bar1"
  -before configuring the level for "foo", then the latter instruction
  -will overwrite the first. It will be as if the first instruction for
  -configuring "foo.bar1" had never existed. This is not a show stopper
  -but it will bite you time and again.
  +<p>It follows that with JSR47 if you configure the level for logger
  +"foo.bar1" before configuring the level for "foo", then the latter
  +instruction will overwrite the first. It will be as if the first
  +instruction for configuring "foo.bar1" had never existed. This is not
  +a show stopper but it will bite you time and again.
   
   <p>In log4j, categories can be configured in any order. Thus, you do
   not have to worry about configuration order.
  @@ -112,6 +112,8 @@
   at a time making resource bundles and hence internationalization quite
   unmanageable.
   
  +</ol>
  +
   <h2>Bogus Levels</h2>
   
   <p>JSR 47 defines the levels <code>ALL</code>, <code>SEVERE</code>,
  @@ -141,17 +143,18 @@
   JMS channels, automatically generate email etc. It can roll log files
   by size or date and log asynchronously.
   
  -<p>JSR47 can log to the console, to files and to a memory buffer.
  +<p>JSR47 can log to the console, to files, to sockets and to a memory
  +buffer.
   
   <p>Log4j has an extensible and powerful layout called the
  -PatternLayout. JSR47 offers the much weaker
  +<code>PatternLayout</code>.  JSR47 offers the much weaker
   <code>SimpleFormatter</code> as an alternative.
   
   <p>Log4j supports configuration through property files as well as XML
   documents. JSR47 currently admits only property files. Moreover, the
  -language of JSR47 configuration files is very weak. For example, you
  +language of JSR47 configuration files is very weak. In particular, you
   can only configure one instance of a given handler class. <em>This
  -means that you can log to jsut one file at a time.</em>
  +means that you can log to just one file at a time.</em>
   
   <p>There are many other details in which log4j differs from
   JSR47. Even if the log4j core is small, the project contains a total
  @@ -163,6 +166,37 @@
   day. Log4j has been ported to C++ and Python. Commercial companies
   provide products based on log4j.
   
  +<p>By the way, log4j runs fine under JDK 1.1. JSR 47 will run under
  +JDK 1.4 and only under JDK 1.4.
  +
  +<h2>Error Handling</h2>
  +
  +In JSR 47 when an error occurs then either a
  +<code>RunTimeException</code> is thrown to the user or (in handlers
  +only) an internal field is set. In the first case, the
  +<code>RunTimeException</code> will cause your application to crash. In
  +the latter case, you can retrieve the last caught exception in the
  +handler checking the <code>getException</code> method of that
  +handler. <em>The former is totally unacceptable while the latter is
  +impractical.</em>
  +
  +<p>In log4j, under no circumstances are exceptions thrown at the
  +user. However, all appenders have an associated
  +<code>ErrorHandler</code>.  This <code>ErrorHandler</code> is invoked
  +by the appender whenever a handler-specific error occurs.  By default,
  +log4j appenders are associated with an
  +<code>OnlyOnceErrorHandler</code> which emits a message on the console
  +for the first error in an appender and ignoring all following errors.
  +
  +<p>An <code>ErrorHandler</code> can implement an arbitrary error
  +handling policy. For example, after a failure to write to a database a
  +<code>JDBCAppender</code> can be redirected to fall back on a
  +<code>FileAppender</code>. This functionality is supported in XML
  +configuration files. You do not need to change a single line of client
  +code.
  +
  +<p>But again who cares about errors right?
  +
   <h2>Performance</h2>
   
   <p>In log4j, caller localization information is optional. In JSR47 it
  @@ -172,15 +206,20 @@
   
   
   <h2>Lobby Sun</h2>
  -
  -<p>If you feel that these differences are imporant, then this is your
  -chance to lobby Sun to adopt log4j as the logging API shipped in JDK
  -1.4 or <b>at the least change the way parents and children loggers
  -interact.</b> This is an implementation detail and does not affect the
  -public API.  Please direct your polite and personalized request to <a
  -href="mailto:java-logging-input@eng.sun.com">java-logging-input@eng.sun.com</a>.
   
  -<p>
  +<p>If you feel that these differences are important, then this is your
  +chance to lobby Sun to adopt log4j as the logging API shipped with JDK
  +1.4. The JSR47 API is still at the public-review stage meaning that it
  +can still be modified. In six months time whining about JSR47 will be
  +too late.
  +
  +<p>Please direct your polite and personalized request to <a
  +href="mailto:java-logging-input@eng.sun.com">java-logging-input@eng.sun.com</a>
  +with a cc: to <a href="mailto:cgu@qos.ch">cgu@qos.ch</a>.
  +
  +<p>You may wish to look at a <a
  +href="pub-support/index.html">compilation</a> of previous requests
  +sent to Sun by our community.
   
   </body>
   </HTML>
  
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/AbeMirrashidi.html
  
  Index: AbeMirrashidi.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:11:07 -0700 (PDT) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Abe Mirrashidi &lt;abe@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR 47 <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>I have been using log4j for nearly a year now and it is a quite robust 
  and</DIV>
  <DIV>widely used API. It is great that Sun is incorporating logging into 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>jdk, but quite ridiculous to include an inferior, brand new, 
  unadopted</DIV>
  <DIV>standard. It makes much more sense to adopt log4j as the de jure 
  standard,</DIV>
  <DIV>as it is already the de facto standard.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Sincerely yours,</DIV>
  <DIV>Abraham Mirrashidi</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/AlexBlewitt.html
  
  Index: AlexBlewitt.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:58:14 +0100 (BST) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Alex Blewitt &lt;Alex.Blewitt@ioshq.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Sender: ukasb001@krud.int.ioshq.com 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: mailto: ; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Log4J as standard logging mechanism <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>I am writing to let you know that I believe there are some 
  fundamental</DIV>
  <DIV>flaws in the logging mechanism currently shipped with JDK 1.4. I 
  believe</DIV>
  <DIV>that these are well summarised in the document</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; <A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>In particular, multiple debugging levels (FINE, FINER, FINEST) are 
  very</DIV>
  <DIV>difficult to separate in real terms.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Additionally, having looked through the source code of both Log4J and 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>associated JSR 47 specification, I believe that more work and test 
  hours</DIV>
  <DIV>have gone into the Log4J rather than JSR specifications.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>As such, I believe that you should consider adopting the de-facto 
  standard</DIV>
  <DIV>of Log4J as the logging utility in Java, rather than settle for 
  second</DIV>
  <DIV>best.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Regards,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Alex Blewitt.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>/***************************************************************\</DIV>
  <DIV>|*&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Alex 
  Blewitt&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * Hug, and the world hugs with you 
  *|</DIV>
  <DIV>|*&nbsp; Alex.Blewitt@ioshq.com&nbsp; 
  *&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  *|</DIV>
  <DIV>|* Mobile: +44 7966 158 647 *&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Spread a little 
  happiness&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *|</DIV>
  <DIV>\***************************************************************/</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/AndersKristensen.html
  
  Index: AndersKristensen.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:07:25 -0400 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Anders Kristensen &lt;akristensen@dynamicsoft.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; 
  U) <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Accept-Language: en <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: Ceki G�lc� &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR 47 vs log4j <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hi,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>This is to let you guys on the JSR 47 expert group know that I agree</DIV>
  <DIV>with most of the points brought up by Ceki in his discussion of JSR 
  47:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp; <A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I guess it's not essential to have the JSR 47 API be all singing, all</DIV>
  <DIV>dancing in its first incarnation, but it would be unfortunate if the</DIV>
  <DIV>design precludes the sort of improvements mentioned by Ceki in later</DIV>
  <DIV>versions (and while I haven't looked very closely at JSR 47, I 
  suspect</DIV>
  <DIV>many more points could be made).</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Regards,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Anders Kristensen</DIV>
  <DIV>logj4 developer and spec lead for JSR 116</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/AndyDePue.html
  
  Index: AndyDePue.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Request to use log4j as Java logging standard 
  instead of JSR 47. <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: 
  java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 
  5.0.3&nbsp; March 21, 2000 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>From: 
  AndyDePue@kyrus.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 
  10:21:33 -0700 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-MIMETrack: Serialize by 
  Router on GV-TYR/GV/Kyrus(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 06/13/2001 
  <BR>&nbsp;01:19:57 PM <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hello,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp; I have been involved on at least ten projects where logging has 
  been</DIV>
  <DIV>necessary.&nbsp; With this much experience logging (both building 
  logging</DIV>
  <DIV>libraries and using third party libraries), I can tell you that when 
  I</DIV>
  <DIV>discovered log4j, I had never seen anything like it.&nbsp; It is, simply, 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>best logging package I have ever used.&nbsp; Not just the big things, but 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>little details are what make it great.&nbsp; After a thorough review of JSR 
  47,</DIV>
  <DIV>I see it falls short on many of these details.&nbsp; In all honesty, if 
  JSR47</DIV>
  <DIV>became the logging standard, I would never use it as long as log4j 
  still</DIV>
  <DIV>existed in an up-to-date state.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Please have mercy on us developers and heed this appeal!</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Andy DePue</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/BrentSprecher.html
  
  Index: BrentSprecher.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Brent Sprecher" &lt;brent@servidium.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Logging API concerns. 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:24:43 -0600 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 
  5.50.4133.2400 <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
  <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=GENERATOR>
  <STYLE></STYLE>
  
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear sir or madam,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As a current log4j user and developer, I feel the 
  need to comment on the JRS47 logging API. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The company I work for has produced a Swing based 
  GUI that leverages the power of log4j and provides developers with a 
  sophisticated logging interface for managing log messages. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am currently in the process of extending our 
  application to plug into the JDK 1.4 beta java.util.logging package, and have 
  frankly been quite dissapointed. A number of basic features that I have come to 
  expect from a logging package are missing or poorly implemented.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In particular, the way that Level inheritance and 
  Handler inheritance are implemented makes using this package awkward at best. At 
  the very least, you should consider implementing Handler inheritance in the same 
  fashion as log4j.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also find it annoying that I&nbsp;have to use the 
  log( ) method on a Logger object in order to pass an exception to be logged. Why 
  is there no implementation such as severe(String msg, Throwable 
  exception)?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The list could go on ... for example, the way 
  properties files are used for configuration is very&nbsp;annoying 
  ....</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For a good summary of the issues with the 
  java.util.logging package, I refer you to&nbsp;<A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A>. 
  I agree with all of the points raised by this article, and would whole heartedly 
  support including the log4j logging implementation in the JDK!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Brent Sprecher</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Product Engineer</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Servidium Inc. (</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><A 
  href="http://www.servidium.com">http://www.servidium.com</A>)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(403) 263-3287</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/CarlBacher.html
  
  Index: CarlBacher.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:32:25 -0500 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Carl Bacher &lt;cbacher@us-rx.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Accept-Language: en <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: 
  java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 1.4 Java Logging 
  <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>After reviewing the jdk 1.4 logging api and discussing it's impact 
  with</DIV>
  <DIV>others, I'd like to suggest that you consider the Apache Group's 
  log4j</DIV>
  <DIV>api architecture as a possible alternative to be included in the 1.4</DIV>
  <DIV>release.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Log4j has been tested rigorously, has been enhanced greatly on a very</DIV>
  <DIV>tight feedback loop, and is built upon a solid architecture. Log4j 
  also</DIV>
  <DIV>stresses memory management and performance issues and has a 
  tremendous</DIV>
  <DIV>array of output destination options.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I will continue to use log4j regardless. I'd just hate to see Sun 
  pass</DIV>
  <DIV>up the opportunity to utilize a superior piece of open-source 
  software.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thank you for your ear,</DIV>
  <DIV>Carl Bacher</DIV>
  <DIV>Sr. Java Developer, Wellinx</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/ChristopherTaylor.html
  
  Index: ChristopherTaylor.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Christopher Taylor" 
  &lt;cstaylor@java-internals.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "Ceki G�lc�xj/A==" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Please adopt Log4J as the replacement for JSR47 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:45:51 -0700 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 
  6.00.2462.0000 <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
  <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=GENERATOR>
  <STYLE></STYLE>
  
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would strongly suggest that Sun refrain from 
  offering&nbsp;yet another logging framework.&nbsp; Log4J has the mindshare, the 
  development community, and the flexibility that JSR47 currently does not.&nbsp; 
  Since Sun has already moved Servlet and JSP development over to the Jakarta 
  project, why not let Jakarta handle the logging as well?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Christopher Taylor</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Log4J developer</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/CourtDemas.html
  
  Index: CourtDemas.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:23:41 -0700 (PDT) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Court Demas &lt;courtdemas@yahoo.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Reply-To: court@acm.org <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: please adopt log4j in jdk1.4 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>I urge you to consider this document: </DIV>
  <DIV><A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>It is a critique of the JSR47 logging system, to be included in the 
  JDK</DIV>
  <DIV>1.4.&nbsp; I agree with the author that the log4j api should be 
  adopted</DIV>
  <DIV>instead.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>court</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>__________________________________________________</DIV>
  <DIV>Do You Yahoo!?</DIV>
  <DIV>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 </DIV>
  <DIV>a year!&nbsp; <A href="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/DanTanner.html
  
  Index: DanTanner.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Dan Tanner &lt;dtanner@is.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com '" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: input <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 
  13 Jun 2001 10:27:06 -0500 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: 
  Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>My background is:</DIV>
  <DIV>I currently use log4j.&nbsp; I don't have any personal attachments to 
  it.&nbsp; There</DIV>
  <DIV>is room for improvement for it, but it has become a well-honed tool 
  for</DIV>
  <DIV>logging through heavy use and development, and I hope you remain as open 
  as</DIV>
  <DIV>possible in making the best of the proposed spec and log4j.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I think you need to:</DIV>
  <DIV>- Do performance comparisons between your latest implementation and 
  log4j.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>- Provide a response to Ceki G�lc�'s critique on a point-by-point basis, 
  and</DIV>
  <DIV>make it publicly available for further responses from those currently 
  using</DIV>
  <DIV>some sort of logging tool.&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>i.e. Do you agree with each point?&nbsp; If not, why?</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>This component will be especially important to Sun's image for supporters 
  as</DIV>
  <DIV>well as competitors.&nbsp; If successful, it will show the immense value of 
  open</DIV>
  <DIV>community involvement in creating the best software.&nbsp; It is a 
  huge</DIV>
  <DIV>opportunity to show that you mean what you say.&nbsp; If unsuccessful, 
  it'll look</DIV>
  <DIV>like the bickering that occurs too often in the linux community.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Therefore, I urge you once again to think carefully and openly to 
  make</DIV>
  <DIV>java.util.logging a utility people are happy to embrace.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thanks.</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/DavidMaharaj.html
  
  Index: DavidMaharaj.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Originating-IP: [24.19.162.220] <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "David Maharaj" &lt;admaharaj@msn.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: log4j and jsr 47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:26:32 -0700 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2001 18:26:32.0766 (UTC) 
  FILETIME=[5F1F1DE0:01C0F436] <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hi,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; I have only recently started using a logging api and was thrilled 
  when I found log4j. It is simple to use and considering the number of us already 
  using it, well tested. I especially appreciate that it is easily extendable to 
  my own uses and that it leaves the smallest footprint on my code. It gives me 
  complete control over extending it and how and where I output my information. I 
  also am very interested in configuring logging at a particular hierarchy 
  and&nbsp; not letting configuration at too high a level overwrite some of the 
  lower level logging that I may be most interested in at a given time.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Please reconsider shaping jsr47 to log4j. We are a lot of happy 
  customers and would like to see the jdk1.4 composed of the best apis.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Thanx for your time,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Dave Maharaj</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Sun Certified Java Programmer</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR clear=all>
  <HR>
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A 
  href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A><BR>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/DavidOwens.html
  
  Index: DavidOwens.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Sender: dowens@synxis.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:00:20 -0600 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: David Owens &lt;dowens@synxis.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-3 i686) 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Accept-Language: en <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  JDK 1.4 logging API <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-scanner: scanned by 
  Inflex 0.1.5c - (<A href="http://www.inflex.co.za/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.inflex.co.za/</A>) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>To whom it may concern,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I think it is a great idea to create a common logging API for java. </DIV>
  <DIV>Many developers</DIV>
  <DIV>have wanted something more flexible than System.out.println() and 
  less</DIV>
  <DIV>difficult</DIV>
  <DIV>than writing to output streams explicitly.&nbsp; However, this need 
  has</DIV>
  <DIV>already been </DIV>
  <DIV>fulfilled and widely adopted by the development community.&nbsp; The 
  API</DIV>
  <DIV>which accomplished</DIV>
  <DIV>this is called Log4J.&nbsp; An attempt at JSR47 would be like reinventing 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>wheel, and </DIV>
  <DIV>would initially lead only to a less mature, and less flexible logging</DIV>
  <DIV>package.&nbsp; Not</DIV>
  <DIV>to mention all the time wasted creating and testing it.&nbsp; I think 
  you</DIV>
  <DIV>should reconsider</DIV>
  <DIV>launching such a project and instead consider packaging Log4J with 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>JDK.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thank you for your time and consideration,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>David Owens</DIV>
  <DIV>Software Engineer</DIV><BR>
  <DIV><A href="file://c:\program%20files\qualcomm\eudora\attach\dowens1.vcf" 
  EUDORA="ATTACHMENT" 
  file="file://c:\program%20files\qualcomm\eudora\attach\dowens1.vcf"><IMG 
  alt="c:\program files\qualcomm\eudora\attach\dowens1.vcf" 
  src="file://c:\program files\qualcomm\eudora\icons\31d070.jpg"> dowens1.vcf 
  </A></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/EllisTeer.html
  
  Index: EllisTeer.html
  ===================================================================
  
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:35:16 -0700 (PDT) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Ellis Teer &lt;e_teer@yahoo.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR47 vs. log4j <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>To whom it may concern,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I feel that the differences between log4j and the JSR47 API outlined at 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>following URL are significant.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV><A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I also feel, that rather than reinventing the wheel the JSR47 group 
  should</DIV>
  <DIV>incorporate the log4j API rather than recreating it.&nbsp; The standards 
  put forth</DIV>
  <DIV>by the JSR group will eventually replace any similarly functioning external 
  API</DIV>
  <DIV>due to its incorporation into the JDK.&nbsp; For the number of people who 
  already</DIV>
  <DIV>use log4j, such as myself, it feels that Sun by way of including this new 
  API</DIV>
  <DIV>in the JDK is forcing users of log4j to switch.&nbsp; I understand that 
  there are</DIV>
  <DIV>licensing issues but I suspect Ceki would be accommodating in this 
  regard.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>In addition, by incorporating such projects into the API rather than 
  recreating</DIV>
  <DIV>them from scratch I believe Sun will promote more projects like these to 
  move</DIV>
  <DIV>forward rather than possibly dissuading programmers from creating new API's 
  for</DIV>
  <DIV>fear that their work will become useless by Sun's recreation of their 
  features</DIV>
  <DIV>in the next JDK.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I point to the success of Tomcat as an example.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Sincerely,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>-Ellis Teer</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>__________________________________________________</DIV>
  <DIV>Do You Yahoo!?</DIV>
  <DIV>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 </DIV>
  <DIV>a year!&nbsp; <A href="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/EndreStolsvik.html
  
  Index: EndreStolsvik.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Authentication-Warning: jeeves.stud.ntnu.no: endrs owned 
  process doing -bs <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 
  12:26:26 +0200 (MET DST) <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Endre 
  St�lsvik &lt;Endre@Stolsvik.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-X-Sender:&nbsp; &lt;endrs@jeeves.stud.ntnu.no&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Logging API - JSR47 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-10 
  <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>There has been lots of critique on the logging API being defined by</DIV>
  <DIV>the JSR47 expert group.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Log4j is a Open Source logging package that has been around for 
  several</DIV>
  <DIV>years and have had _lots_ of time to develop. It quite recently became 
  an</DIV>
  <DIV>Apache project, and has after this gotten even more downloads, usage 
  and</DIV>
  <DIV>hence improvements.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I urge the expert group to at least take into serious consideration 
  all</DIV>
  <DIV>the inputs it has gotten from various projects, while the standard 
  still</DIV>
  <DIV>is in the "public-review stage".</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Ceki G�lc� is the "main man" for the log4j project, and have written 
  a</DIV>
  <DIV>condensed "report" of what he feels is the "worst" design choices 
  that</DIV>
  <DIV>have been done in the JSR47.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Read:&nbsp; <A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I cannot understand why the JSR47 cannot _base_ their work on this 
  _widely</DIV>
  <DIV>used_ logging package that's already been out in the fields for 
  years.</DIV>
  <DIV>Several other logging packages' teams have complained about the 
  JSR47's</DIV>
  <DIV>API. If Sun actually mean that their JSR process is _somewhat_ open, 
  it</DIV>
  <DIV>would be rather idiotic to not take all this feedback into 
  consideration.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thank you for your time.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>-- </DIV>
  <DIV>Mvh,</DIV>
  <DIV>Endre</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/EoinFlood.html
  
  Index: EoinFlood.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:31:28 +0100 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Eoin Flood &lt;eoin.flood@orbiscom.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Accept-Language: en <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  Log4J vs JSR47 <BR></SPAN><BR><BR>
  <DIV>As a long time 'user' of the log4j framework I would like to add my voice 
  in</DIV>
  <DIV>support of log4j over JSR47.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>log4j is now an extremly widely used, stable and extensible framework</DIV>
  <DIV>which has been tried, tested and trusted by thousands of developers</DIV>
  <DIV>around the world.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I would ask you to seriously consider the points which Ceki makes in</DIV>
  <DIV><A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thanks</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Eoin Flood</DIV><BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>**********************************************************************</DIV>
  <DIV>The information contained in this message is confidential and </DIV>
  <DIV>is intended for the addressee(s) only.&nbsp; If you have received </DIV>
  <DIV>this message in error or there are any problems please notify </DIV>
  <DIV>the originator immediately.&nbsp; The unauthorised use, disclosure, </DIV>
  <DIV>copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This</DIV>
  <DIV>message and any attachments have been scanned for viruses.</DIV>
  <DIV>Orbiscom Ltd. will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or </DIV>
  <DIV>consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents </DIV>
  <DIV>of this message by a third party or as a result of any virus being</DIV>
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  <DIV><A href="http://www.orbiscom.com/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">www.Orbiscom.com</A></DIV>
  <DIV>**************************************</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/GuyLichtman.html
  
  Index: GuyLichtman.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Guy Lichtman &lt;lichtman@omnisky.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  'Ceki G?lc?' &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  please consider adopting log4j <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 
  Jun 2001 09:46:54 +0200 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet 
  Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
  <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4613.1700" name=GENERATOR>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=381183207-13062001>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=381183207-13062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=381183207-13062001><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>I think log4j 
  is a widely used logging package. My company is currently&nbsp;using this 
  package and we plan to keep using it in the future. I reviewed the java 1.4 
  logging package and I can say that log4j offers us added functionality that we 
  need and use (automatically generate email, </FONT><FONT face=Arial>JMS 
  channels). I hope that you will reconsider this decision or at least come out 
  with a package that log4j can be easily&nbsp;implemented into (I think this 
  requires some modification as stated by </FONT><FONT face=Arial>Ceki G�lc� in 
  </FONT></FONT><A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html"><FONT 
  color=#000000 face=Arial 
  size=2>http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</FONT></A><FONT 
  face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;).</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV></SPAN><SPAN class=381183207-13062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hope you 
  will&nbsp;reconsider,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Guy Lichtman</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OmniSky Israel</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/HenrikFredholm.html
  
  Index: HenrikFredholm.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: henrik.fredholm@telenor.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  Please adopt log4j as the logging API shiped with JDK 1.4 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:17:49 +0200 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hi,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Could you please adopt log4j as the logging API shiped with JDK 1.4. This 
  is</DIV>
  <DIV>an excelent API that I feel is superior to JSR47 and addresses the needs 
  we</DIV>
  <DIV>have for loging. It even works with existing JDKs. We have adopted it 
  as</DIV>
  <DIV>standard for all J2EE BEA WebLogic based projects in our 
  organization.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thanks </DIV>
  <DIV>Henrik Fredholm</DIV>
  <DIV>J2EE Coordinator/Architect for</DIV>
  <DIV>Telenor Mobil</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/HenrikLundahl.html
  
  Index: HenrikLundahl.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: henrik.lundahl@jayway.se (Henrik Lundahl) 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR 47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: 
  Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:00:39 +0200 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: 
  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
  <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR>
  <STYLE></STYLE>
  
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Would you please reconsider using the JSR47 API as 
  the logging toolkit in JDK 1.4. There is already a well tested and widely used 
  logging API for Java, namely Log4j from jakarta <A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j</A>. 
  Consider incorporating this into JDK 1.4 instead!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've used Log4j in my master thesis project and I 
  haven't had any problems with it.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards, Henrik Lundahl, Jayway AB, 
  Sweden.</FONT></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/HenryLi.html
  
  Index: HenryLi.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: 
  java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 
  5.0.5&nbsp; September 22, 2000 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>From: 
  Henry.Li@expeditors.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 
  2001 11:42:12 -0700 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-MIMETrack: Serialize 
  by Router on notes-smtp01.chq.ei/Servers/Expeditors(Release 5.0.6a 
  <BR>&nbsp;|January 17, 2001) at 06/13/2001 11:46:41 AM <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>I don't know how many companies are using Log4J. I extended the log4j 
  for</DIV>
  <DIV>our company and the extension is now used as one of our companies</DIV>
  <DIV>enterprise components. Log4J is so easy to use, easy to extend and easy 
  to</DIV>
  <DIV>configure. I don't see any reason that sun should recreate a logging 
  API</DIV>
  <DIV>which does the exact same thing.</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JamesProkash.html
  
  Index: JamesProkash.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Prokash, Jim" &lt;JProkash@TICENTERPRISES.COM&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  Adopt log4j as the logging API <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 
  Jun 2001 10:10:03 -0400 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet 
  Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>To whom it may concern:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp; I am writing to ask you to adopt log4j as the logging API shipped 
  with</DIV>
  <DIV>JDK1.4.&nbsp; I have successfully, and easily, used the log4j package in 
  several</DIV>
  <DIV>projects.&nbsp; Log4j was a Javaworld Editors' Choice Finalist for 
  2001,</DIV>
  <DIV>indicating to me that I am not the only satisfied user of log4j.&nbsp; 
  The</DIV>
  <DIV>critique, <A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A> , 
  written by</DIV>
  <DIV>log4j's author highlights several advantages of log4j over the 
  current</DIV>
  <DIV>recommendation.&nbsp; Although seemingly similar, I am concerned about 
  having to</DIV>
  <DIV>learn another logging API.&nbsp; Why reinvent the "logging" wheel when 
  a</DIV>
  <DIV>comprehensive solution already exists?</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Thank you for your time and consideration of this issue.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Sincerely,</DIV>
  <DIV>James Prokash</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JasonHeirtzler.html
  
  Index: JasonHeirtzler.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:33:17 -0700 (PDT) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Jason Heirtzler &lt;jheirtzler@yahoo.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hello,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I am concerned about the possability that JSR47</DIV>
  <DIV>may be included in JDK 1.4. If this happens, it</DIV>
  <DIV>will become the defacto standard and many people</DIV>
  <DIV>will have no choice but pick JSR47 over log4j,</DIV>
  <DIV>no matter what the technical merits may be of</DIV>
  <DIV>one vs the other.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>With log4j we have a very workable solution that</DIV>
  <DIV>the community enjoys, that supports all of us</DIV>
  <DIV>that are using JDK 1.x, JDK 1.2, and JDK 1.3. log4j</DIV>
  <DIV>is very well debugged, well optimized, and enjoys</DIV>
  <DIV>much support from the greater java community.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I would ask you to consider everyone's best</DIV>
  <DIV>interest and favor this existing package and</DIV>
  <DIV>not reinvent the wheel.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I sincerely hope we can accomplish this and</DIV>
  <DIV>build on top of the community's hard work to</DIV>
  <DIV>make java development the best it can be.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Best regards,</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>__________________________________________________</DIV>
  <DIV>Do You Yahoo!?</DIV>
  <DIV>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 </DIV>
  <DIV>a year!&nbsp; <A href="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JasonKitcat.html
  
  Index: JasonKitcat.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Sender: fproject@mail.kia.net <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:19:48 +0100 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Jason Kitcat &lt;jeep@free-project.org&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: log4j v. JSR47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hello,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>While a happy Java user for many years it seems incredible that you have 
  ignored all the work and community support behind log4j (let alone it's 
  technical superiority) to create a new product.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Of particular concern to us at the FREE e-democracy project is that 
  GNU.FREE is backwards compatible with as many version of the JVM as possible. 
  The fact that log4j supports 1.1 upwards and JSR47 will only work with 1.4 
  upwards indicates that we never be able to consider your propose 
  alternative.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Please withdraw it and join the community, I'm sure there's lots you could 
  contribute to the log4j team.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>All the best,</DIV>
  <DIV>Jason</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>-- </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The FREE 
  e-democracy project</DIV>
  <DIV>----------------------------------------</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A 
  href="http://www.free-project.org/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.free-project.org</A></DIV>
  <DIV>----------------------------------------</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;secure, private and reliable Free Software</DIV><BR>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JoeLoda.html
  
  Index: JoeLoda.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Loda, Joe" &lt;Joe.Loda@mpct.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  JSR47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:34:15 -0500 
  <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>I feel that the feature set of log4j is stronger than JSR47, and would 
  urge</DIV>
  <DIV>you to consider log4j as the JDK 1.4 logging utility.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>---</DIV>
  <DIV>Joe Loda, mpct Solutions Corporation, Chicago</DIV>
  <DIV>joe.loda@mpct.com</DIV>
  
  
  No                   revision
  
  
  No                   revision
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JohnMunsch.html
  
  Index: JohnMunsch.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "John Munsch" &lt;jmunsch@pdxinc.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: I'm not a big letter writer, but... <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:04:42 -0500 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Importance: Normal <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <META content=Word.Document name=ProgId>
  <META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Generator>
  <META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK 
  href="cid:filelist.xml@01C0F3F8.A56FCB20" rel=File-List>
  <STYLE>
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  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I would be hard pressed to find any 
  logging system better than the one in Log4J. I used it at a previous employer 
  and just managed <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">today</SPAN></I> to 
  convince my new employer that it should replace a proprietary system they paid 
  to have built that wasn�t serving them well.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P>&nbsp;</O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Putting Log4J into JDK1.4 is a 
  decision that I have a hard time believing anyone would ever regret. It is truly 
  easy to use, has a lot of flexibility, and an official Sun stamp of approval 
  along with their careful improvements to the code would only benefit end users 
  like me. Any system that doesn�t offer as much functionality, flexibility and 
  ease of use as Log4J is, I think, an unfortunate 
  choice.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P>&nbsp;</O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">While I cannot speak to all the 
  points raised in a recent comparison of Log4J to JSR47 I can speak to two in 
  particular:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal 
  style="MARGIN-LEFT: 20.9pt; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 20.9pt"><FONT 
  face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">-<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Functionality: the wide set of <SPAN 
  class=SpellE>appenders</SPAN> that come standard with Log4J has been a big 
  selling <SPAN class=GramE>point</SPAN> everywhere I�ve used it. Even if we do 
  not use all of the <SPAN class=SpellE>appenders</SPAN>, it�s not hard to imagine 
  customers of ours who will be interested in using some of the additional ones 
  provided (i.e. NT event logging or Unix <SPAN 
  class=SpellE>Syslog</SPAN>).<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal 
  style="MARGIN-LEFT: 20.9pt; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 20.9pt"><FONT 
  face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN 
  style="mso-list: Ignore">-<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN 
  style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Levels: I can vouch for having 
  arguments about how to use the five simple levels in Log4J between myself and 
  just one other programmer (not loud shouting type arguments, but serious 
  disagreements over when each should be used). Adding additional levels was the 
  last thing on our minds and I believe really unneeded for most projects. I don�t 
  think ALL, OFF, FINE, FINER and FINEST really add anything to the party, BUT, if 
  they were deemed important they could easily be added to the existing Log4J 
  system when it was folded into the JDK1.4.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P>&nbsp;</O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">John <SPAN 
  class=SpellE>Munsch</SPAN><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P>&nbsp;</O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Note: I am not acting in any 
  official capacity for my employer, but rather just giving my two cents as a Java 
  developer with experience using an excellent API.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JohnVolkar.html
  
  Index: JohnVolkar.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: John Volkar &lt;jvolkar@etransport.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 
  13 Jun 2001 07:19:27 -0400 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: 
  Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>After a review of the beta JDK 1.4, and the logging API, we have 
  decided</DIV>
  <DIV>that it is unfortunate that the logging mechanism is not pluggable.&nbsp; 
  In our</DIV>
  <DIV>systems we use log4j in a very specific and customized fashion, the 
  JSR47</DIV>
  <DIV>logging mechanism is wholly unsuited to our needs.&nbsp; That's fine, but 
  we'd</DIV>
  <DIV>really like to use the Sun provided api (because of client perceptions, 
  no</DIV>
  <DIV>*real* reason otherwise) and plug-in our own implementation (which would 
  be</DIV>
  <DIV>our special configuration of Log4j).</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Please, before it's too late, change JSR47 to either:</DIV>
  <DIV><X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>A) use Log4j 
  directly</DIV>
  <DIV>or:<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>B) clearly define an API 
  via an interface, and make the</DIV>
  <DIV>implementation pluggable.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Regards</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>John Volkar</DIV>
  <DIV>Senior Software Engineer II</DIV>
  <DIV>Descartes Systems Group (DSGX)</DIV>
  <DIV>Pittsburgh PA</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/JonStevens.html
  
  Index: JonStevens.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:57:49 -0700 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Log4J Vote <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>From: 
  Jon Stevens &lt;jon@latchkey.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  &lt;jcp@apache.org&gt;, Ceki G�lc�/A== &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Dear Members of JSR47:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>This is my vote to drop whatever you have for JDK1.4 and use Log4J as 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>standard instead. Using an open source implementation of a Logging system 
  is</DIV>
  <DIV>highly preferable to using something that has been defined behind the 
  walls</DIV>
  <DIV>of the JCP because Log4J has been able to take input from more people 
  over</DIV>
  <DIV>time and this has helped create a more useful product. I also believe 
  Ceki</DIV>
  <DIV>is a wizard when it comes to designing Logging systems.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>His Critique on his website is also well written and shows many of 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>problems with JSR47. Even if you do make the modifications that he 
  suggests,</DIV>
  <DIV>it would be a duplication of what is already available and that seems 
  quite</DIV>
  <DIV>unnecessary to have two implementations of the exact same thing.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>thanks,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>-jon stevens</DIV>
  <DIV>Member: JSR-053, JSR-107</DIV>
  <DIV>Member: Apache Software Foundation</DIV>
  <DIV>Co-Founder: Jakarta Apache Project</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/KnutErikBallestad.html
  
  Index: KnutErikBallestad.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Reply-To: &lt;knut.erik.ballestad@jarepta.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Knut Erik Ballestad" 
  &lt;knut.erik.ballestad@jarepta.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Logging API. 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:53:18 +0200 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 
  9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Importance: High 
  <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Would you PLEASE consider using the open-source Log4J API instead of</DIV>
  <DIV>introducing yet another</DIV>
  <DIV>API in Java. Log4J has existed a long time already, and we have been 
  using</DIV>
  <DIV>it without any</DIV>
  <DIV>problems at all in many large production-level application for the last 
  12</DIV>
  <DIV>months.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>After what I have been able figure out the API of JSR47 is similar to 
  Log4J,</DIV>
  <DIV>but less powerful and a lot less 'tried and tested'. It also has a (in 
  my</DIV>
  <DIV>view) bad design flaw, since it can throw exceptions.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Hope you will at least consider using Log4J as the 'standard' in 
  future</DIV>
  <DIV>JDK's instead.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>________________________________________________</DIV>
  <DIV>Knut Erik Ballestad</DIV>
  <DIV>jobb:&nbsp;&nbsp; 9082 6078&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  knut.erik.ballestad@jarepta.com</DIV>
  <DIV>hjem:&nbsp;&nbsp; 2216 2034&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; knut.erik@ballestad.com</DIV>
  <DIV>________________________________________________</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/MichaelMoser.html
  
  Index: MichaelMoser.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Reply-To: &lt;michael.moser@freesurf.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Michael Moser" &lt;mmo@zurich.ibm.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: "Ceki G�lc�" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:57:27 +0200 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 
  9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Importance: Normal 
  <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hello,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I have been using log4j for more than a year now and think its well 
  tested</DIV>
  <DIV>and serves its purpose splendidly.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Comparing log4j and the upcoming JDK 1.4 logging API I consider log4j</DIV>
  <DIV>superior and would urge you to adopt it as your new standard logging API. 
  I</DIV>
  <DIV>don't see any point in re-inventing (and thereby changing for worse) 
  an</DIV>
  <DIV>already excellent piece of work.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>With kind regards,</DIV>
  <DIV>Michael Moser</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>-------------</DIV>
  <DIV>Dr. Michael Moser&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Telephone: +41-(0)1 362 0743 
  (P)</DIV>
  <DIV>Frohburgstr. 
  19&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +41-(0)1 724 8539 (B)</DIV>
  <DIV>CH-8006 
  Z�rich&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  +41-(0)76 420 8539 (M)</DIV>
  <DIV>Switzerland&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Internet : michael.moser@freesurf.ch</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/MichaelStacey.html
  
  Index: MichaelStacey.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Sender: michael.stacey@mail.lexi.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:25:42 -0400 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Michael Stacey 
  &lt;michael@lexi.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR47: 
  logging api <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-MDRemoteIP: 172.16.3.15 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Return-Path: michael@lexi.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Sirs:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; After attending JavaOne and 
  reviewing the proposed logging API described in</DIV>
  <DIV>JSR 47, I wish to register a vote for using the log4j api instead.&nbsp; 
  Various performance and flexibility features of log4j seem superior to those 
  proposed in</DIV>
  <DIV>JSR 47.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In particular, we make heavy use 
  of the ability of log4j to automatically</DIV>
  <DIV>generate email in particular cases.&nbsp; With the proposed api in JSR 47, 
  we would need</DIV>
  <DIV>to rewrite a handler to accomplish the task we are already using in 
  log4j.</DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>------------------</DIV>
  <DIV>Michael Stacey</DIV>
  <DIV>Systems Analyst</DIV>
  <DIV>Lexi-Comp, Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>1100 Terex Rd</DIV>
  <DIV>Hudson OH 44236</DIV>
  <DIV>330 650-6506</DIV><BR><BR><BR>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/NelsonMinar.html
  
  Index: NelsonMinar.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:36:47 -0700 (PDT) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: nelson@monkey.org (Nelson Minar) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: java-logging-input@eng.sun.com <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: Logging API comments: line numbers, conditional 
  compilation, log4j <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Hello there, and thank you so much for your work on JSR47! I'm 
  looking</DIV>
  <DIV>forward to having a logging facility built in to J2SE. I've been a</DIV>
  <DIV>user of log4j in commerical projects for almost two years now, and</DIV>
  <DIV>have come to depend on the tool. It will be good to have something</DIV>
  <DIV>similar in Java.</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>Three comments on the proposal, based on looking at the 1.4 API:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I was disappointed to see no VM level support for logging. I want to</DIV>
  <DIV>be able to print out file and line numbers in my log messages. You 
  can</DIV>
  <DIV>do this with log4j, but it's done via runtime hack of parsing the</DIV>
  <DIV>string representation of a Throwable. The VM could help with this, if</DIV>
  <DIV>it were in the 1.4 standard. The JSR47 alternative (passing in</DIV>
  <DIV>sourceClass and sourceMethod as strings to Logger) is not very</DIV>
  <DIV>helpful, I can't imagine code authors writing and maintaining 
  those.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I was also disappointed to see no compiler level support for 
  compiling</DIV>
  <DIV>out logging entirely. Everyone I know has some variant of a static</DIV>
  <DIV>final boolean that they switch on. It's important when shipping</DIV>
  <DIV>proprietary code - it can be dangerous to leave the logging strings</DIV>
  <DIV>in. But Java has a long history of no conditional compilation, so I</DIV>
  <DIV>guess that's why there is no support for it.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>But my main comment is that I am frankly mystified as to why JSR47</DIV>
  <DIV>does not more closely resemble log4j, or why log4j was not just</DIV>
  <DIV>adopted wholesale. Log4j is the defacto standard logging API, and has</DIV>
  <DIV>had years of development and use. It has several advanced features</DIV>
  <DIV>that are missing from JSR47. Ceki has written up a detailed review</DIV>
  <DIV>that I mostly agree with:</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; <A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV>
  <DIV>For what it's worth, the big omissions in JSR47 to me are some sort 
  of</DIV>
  <DIV>equivalent to PatternLayout, and the limited handler inheritance</DIV>
  <DIV>properties of JSR47.</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>Frankly, at this point I don't see any reason to use JSR47 instead of</DIV>
  <DIV>log4j, except that it will ship in Java 1.4 platforms. I see lots of</DIV>
  <DIV>reasons log4j is better. Is it too late to bring the Java 1.4 API</DIV>
  <DIV>closer to log4j?</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thank you</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp; Nelson</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  nelson@monkey.org</DIV>
  <DIV>.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  .&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .&nbsp;&nbsp; .&nbsp; . . <A 
  href="http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/</A></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/PaulGrinchenko.html
  
  Index: PaulGrinchenko.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Paul Grinchenko &lt;PaulG@DataChannel.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  JSR47 - Critique <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 
  17:15:44 -0700 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail 
  Service (5.5.2653.19) <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
  <META content="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12" name=Generator>
  <P><FONT size=2>I completely agree with the written below and consider myself as 
  an experienced Log4J user.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; <A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  target=_blank>http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>It will be really difficult to produce something more advanced 
  or flexible than Log4J right now. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>At this situation I 
  don't see the reason for reinventing the wheel again. That was my point.</FONT> 
  </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Thanks for listening.</FONT> </P>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/RalfHaug.html
  
  Index: RalfHaug.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Ralf Haug &lt;Ralf.Haug@thinkXML.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  JSR47 - Log4J <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 
  10:16:05 -0400 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail 
  Service (5.5.2650.21) <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
  <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR>
  <DIV><SPAN class=682391614-13062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'd like to support 
  adoption of Log4J as the official JDK 1.4 logging standard for the reasons 
  stated in <A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A>&nbsp;. 
  In addition, Log4J has a very successful track record, so unless there are good 
  reasons against it, it should be adopted.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=682391614-13062001><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=682391614-13062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ralf 
  Haug</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=682391614-13062001><FONT face=Arial 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=682391614-13062001><FONT face=Arial size=2>Chief Software 
  Architect, thinkXML</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/RichardWilliams.html
  
  Index: RichardWilliams.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Richard Williams &lt;richard.williams@cst-hsv.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: FW: JSR-47 Protest <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:26:55 -0500 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) 
  <BR></SPAN><BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>&gt;&nbsp; -----Original Message-----</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; From: 
  <X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>Richard 
  Williams&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Sent:<X-TAB>&nbsp;</X-TAB>Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:26 PM</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; 
  To:<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Subject:<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>JSR-47 
  Protest</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; </DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Please bring the JSR-47 implementation inline with the Apache 
  Log4J</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; logging implementation. Log4J has become the defacto standard within 
  our</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; organization and we would like to see it used as the Java standard. 
  The</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; syslog support in Log4J is mission critical to our operation.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; </DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Thanks,</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; </DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Richard Williams</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; CTO</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Computer Systems Technology, Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Huntsville, AL</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Voice: 256-890-3076</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; Email: rwilliam@cst-hsv.com</DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; </DIV>
  <DIV>&gt; </DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/RobertMahoney.html
  
  Index: RobertMahoney.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:39:46 -0400 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: rmahoney@ieaccess.net (Robert Mahoney) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Reply-To: Robert Mahoney &lt;rmahoney@ieaccess.net&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR47 vs Log4j <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: The Polarbar Mailer; version=1.20dev; build=138 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer-Platform: Windows NT; 
  architecture=x86; version=4.0 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer-Java-VM: IBM Corporation; version=JDK 1.1.8 IBM 
  build n118p-20000915 (JIT ibmjitc V3.5-IBMJDK1.1-20000915); compiler=ibmjitc 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: undisclosed-recipients:; <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; I would like to register my opposition to using JSR47 as the 
  official Java</DIV>
  <DIV>logging API.&nbsp; I've used Log4j (&nbsp; <A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/)" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/)</A>&nbsp; and find it</DIV>
  <DIV>a much better and robust API.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Please adopt Log4j as the official logging API for 
  java.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thank you,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Robert Mahoney</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/RonJacobs.html
  
  Index: RonJacobs.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Ron Jacobs &lt;rjacobs@gforce.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: A 
  Plea for LOG4J Consideration (RE: JSR47 Critique) <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:21:10 -0700 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>I agree with many others that, in most respects, LOG4J is a superior 
  API</DIV>
  <DIV>and implementation for logging events within Java code. I have been 
  using</DIV>
  <DIV>the API since last Summer and have been impressed with its progress 
  since</DIV>
  <DIV>that time. If you have not given LOG4J a good look in the last year,</DIV>
  <DIV>please look again!</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Let me be clear: My plea primarily is that the features and 
  capabilities</DIV>
  <DIV>already available with LOG4J must be included within JSR-47 in order 
  for</DIV>
  <DIV>me to be able to adopt JSDK 1.4 logging. A secondary issue for me is 
  API</DIV>
  <DIV>compatibility. I have segregated logging within its own layer and so 
  if</DIV>
  <DIV>I have to adapt for a new API I am well prepared. Again, my primary 
  plea</DIV>
  <DIV>is that features, extensibility, and performance not be 
  sacrificed.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thanks, Ron</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>R. M. Jacobs</DIV>
  <DIV>voice:&nbsp; 408-865-9410</DIV>
  <DIV><A href="mailto:rjacobs@gforce.com" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">mailto:rjacobs@gforce.com</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>gForce </DIV>
  <DIV>Enterprise eLearning Solutions</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  Get there faster.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV><A href="http://www.gforce.com/" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.gforce.com</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>-----Original Message-----</DIV>
  <DIV>From: Ceki G�lc� [<A href="mailto:cgu@qos.ch" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">mailto:cgu@qos.ch</A>]</DIV>
  <DIV>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:38 PM</DIV>
  <DIV>To: LOG4J Users Mailing List</DIV>
  <DIV>Cc: log4j-dev@jakarta.apache.org; log4j-announce@log4j.org;</DIV>
  <DIV>general@jakarta.apache.org</DIV>
  <DIV>Subject: JSR47 Critique</DIV><BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>Greetings,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Here is a written critique of JSR47, the logging API shipped with </DIV>
  <DIV>JDK 1.4:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp; <A href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html" 
  EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html</A></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>If you agree with its contents, then you are encouraged to send a</DIV>
  <DIV>personalized request to</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>&nbsp; java-logging-input@eng.sun.com</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>asking them to adopt log4j as the logging API shipped with JDK</DIV>
  <DIV>1.4. Please cc: me if and when you choose do so. Thank you in 
  advance.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>--</DIV>
  <DIV>Ceki G�lc�</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/StacyCurl.html
  
  Index: StacyCurl.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Stacy Curl &lt;stacy.curl@xtempus.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  Preference for Log4J over JSR47 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 
  13 Jun 2001 13:33:13 +0100 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: 
  Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
  <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=GENERATOR>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=324163011-13062001>I would like to say 
  that I find that the Log4J project to be superior to JSR47 on many grounds, most 
  of which are succintly set forth in <FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=324163011-13062001><A 
  href="http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html">Ceki 
  G�lc�'s</A>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=324163011-13062001>critique of JSR47.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=324163011-13062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=324163011-13062001>I found the 
  presences of logging levels like FINE, FINEST to be quite meaningless across an 
  entire API; but possibly meaningful withing a single company (a small company), 
  however a much better alternative is to just have that company define their own 
  logging levels. I was hoping that JSR47 would draw a line in the Java sands, and 
  say: From now on you can integrate logging of 3rd party products into your own 
  logging systems, but if 3rdparty products actually use FINE / FINEST, etc, they 
  are highly likely to view the meaning as being different; so how can I now 
  integrate ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=324163011-13062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=324163011-13062001>I'm also somewhat 
  disturbed by the way in which JSR47 lacks an SPI. I've quite liked the way in 
  which other areas of software have been commoditized by Javasoft; I felt that 
  was very statesmans-like, it's also generates so-called best-of-breed 
  implementations. JSR47 however does not commoditize the market, but actually 
  punishes the best logging product for Java there is: log4j, this is, in my 
  opinion, a foolish step to make. You may find that not everyone will appreciate 
  the reduced functionality that JSR47 offers and stick with log4j. Had you 
  provided JSR47 with an SPI then it would not have been long before log4j would 
  have implemented the SPI; and bingo! JSR47 would have gathered support 
  immediately (much like JAXP has). It's a pity that the main factor in creating 
  JSR47 has been the Not Invented Here syndrome.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=324163011-13062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=324163011-13062001>In summary: I think 
  that Log4J should be made the standard logging API for Java, and not 
  JSR47.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P><B><FONT face=Arial>Stacy Curl</FONT></B> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><A 
  href="mailto:Stacy.Curl@xtempus.com">Stacy.Curl@xtempus.com</A><BR><A 
  href="http://www.xtempus.com/">www.xtempus.com</A> | wap.xtempus.com<BR>Tel +44 
  (0)20 7665 5999<BR>Fax +44 (0)20&nbsp;7665 5998</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Xtempus Ltd<BR>New London House<BR>172 Drury 
  Lane<BR>London WC2B 5QR </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=1><B>This message is for the named person's use only. 
  It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged 
  information.&nbsp; No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any 
  mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete 
  it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and 
  notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, 
  distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended 
  recipient. </B></FONT></P>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/SteveWingfield.html
  
  Index: SteveWingfield.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Steve Wingfield &lt;steve.wingfield@informix.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  JSR47 enhancement request <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 
  2001 11:32:54 -0500 <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail 
  Service (5.5.2653.19) <BR></SPAN><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
  <META content="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12" name=Generator>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Sun,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm very pleased to see that JDK1.4 is going to have 
  a logging API associated with it.&nbsp; And in particular I think the JSR47 
  specification has some good ideas behind it.&nbsp; However, I'm concerned that, 
  in its current form, it contains some shortcomings that will affect its 
  usability and performance.&nbsp; Namely, </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>1.&nbsp; Performance -- It seems that setting the log 
  level of the root logger in JSR47 recursively sets the log level of all 
  descendant loggers.&nbsp; The projects I've worked on tended to have trees with 
  a large depth to them, which would result in a performance hit under this 
  scheme.&nbsp; Allowing descendant loggers to determine their log level as needed 
  would seem to be more performant.</FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>2.&nbsp; Usability -- There are a number of areas I'm 
  concerned about in terms of usability.&nbsp; The following lists the major 
  ones:</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Error Handling -- I believe a logging facility should 
  be as unobtrusive as possible.&nbsp; In its current form, it looks like JSR47 
  requires programmers to explicitly catch potential runtime exceptions to avoid a 
  program crash.&nbsp; In my experience, it's been more useful to have a logging 
  package mostly suppress errors (perhaps, at minimum, reporting an error to a 
  standard location like stdout/stderr), rather than having to code around error 
  handlers.&nbsp; </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Setting of Log Levels -- I'm a little concerned about 
  the fact that setting a parent logger's log level will overwrite all of its 
  children's log levels.&nbsp; I'm not convinced that it will always be convenient 
  to first set a parent logger's level prior to setting a child's log level.&nbsp; 
  But in the JSR47 scheme, if you don't set the log levels in the correct order, 
  you will unintentionally overwrite a child's log level.&nbsp; I'm afraid that 
  this will at minimum cause confusion, and at worst be intractable in some cases. 
  </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Inheriting Parent Handlers -- It doesn't seem like 
  this is explicitly possible in JSR47.&nbsp; Global handlers provide some of this 
  functionality, but they are not as flexible as the idea of true handler 
  inheritance.&nbsp; The same limitation exists for resource bundles.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Supporting Multiple Concurrent Handlers -- It doesn't 
  seem that you can have a logger write to more than one handler at a time.&nbsp; 
  This capability can be&nbsp; extremely useful at times; for example, in tech 
  support cases, it's nice to be able to add a socket as a log recipient, in 
  addition to the usual log file.</FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>There are some other areas where I believe 
  improvements could be made, such as log entry formatting, and a more extensive 
  list of log handlers, but the preceding are the ones that really concern 
  me.&nbsp; </FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Currently there exists another java logging package 
  called log4j, available from <A href="http://jakarta.apache.org" 
  target=_blank>http://jakarta.apache.org</A>, that addresses these items.&nbsp; 
  I've been using it on various projects, and have been extremely impressed with 
  its robustness, flexibility, and ease of use.&nbsp; I'm certainly not your 
  stereotypical die hard fanatic that, once familiar with a software package, will 
  never sway from it or try anything new.&nbsp; In fact, I'm eager to learn and 
  become proficient with any Java standard API's that come out.&nbsp; However, the 
  issues I mentioned above are, I'm afraid, too weighty to allow me to use the 
  current form of the JSR47 specification in place of the package I've been 
  using.&nbsp; I hope that you'll take these comments into consideration and 
  either adopt log4j as the logging API for JDK1.4, or at least revise the current 
  specification to handle the above listed items.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sincerely,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Steven 
  Wingfield</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>steve.wingfield@informix.com</FONT> 
  </P>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/ThomasFenner.html
  
  Index: ThomasFenner.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "Fenner, Thomas" &lt;T.Fenner@klopotek.de&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: WG: [log4j-announce]JSR47 Critique <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:25 +0200 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Importance: high <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) 
  <BR></SPAN><BR><BR>
  <DIV>Dear sun,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>please dont invest your energy by inventing the wheel again.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Jakarta's LOG4J-project is already a very well working component of 
  our</DIV>
  <DIV>software and we are very pleased with it.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>So why dont you take this chance to pick up that library into JDK1.4 
  ?</DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV>:) Thomas Fenner (t.fenner@klopotek.de)</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/TonyDean.html
  
  Index: TonyDean.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: Tony Dean &lt;Tony.Dean@sas.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>To: "'java-logging-input@eng.sun.com'" 
  &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: 
  "'cgu@qos.ch'" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:40:51 -0400 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service 
  (5.5.2653.19) <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>Concerning JSR47 public review:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I definitely feel the importance of circumventing the following JSR47 
  short-coming with Log4j methodology:</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>*<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>handler 
  inheritance from ancestor loggers (categories)</DIV>
  <DIV>*<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>ability to 
  configure multiple instances of a handler class (restriction of logging to only 
  one file at a time is totally unacceptable)</DIV>
  <DIV>*<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>printf-like 
  formatting is a big plus in convenience</DIV>
  <DIV>*<X-TAB>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</X-TAB>configuration via 
  XML format</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Thank you for your consideration.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Tony Dean</DIV>
  <DIV>SAS Institute Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>919.531.6704</DIV>
  <DIV>tony.dean@sas.com</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>SAS... The Power to Know</DIV>
  <DIV><A href="http://www.sas.com/" EUDORA="AUTOURL">http://www.sas.com</A></DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/WilliamJaynes.html
  
  Index: WilliamJaynes.html
  ===================================================================
  <SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Delivered-To: cgu@qos.ch <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>From: "William Jaynes" &lt;jaynes@umich.edu&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>To: &lt;java-logging-input@eng.sun.com&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Cc: "Ceki G�lc�xj/A==" &lt;cgu@qos.ch&gt; 
  <BR></SPAN><SPAN class=EUDORAHEADER>Subject: JSR47 vs. log4j <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:37:12 -0400 <BR></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=EUDORAHEADER>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 
  <BR></SPAN><BR>
  <DIV>To whom it may concern,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I urge the JSR group to consider adopting the log4j API rather than 
  the</DIV>
  <DIV>JSR47 proposal.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Log4j has been developed over a period of years by a large number of</DIV>
  <DIV>experienced developers who use it themselves. It is a product of the</DIV>
  <DIV>best practices of the opensource tradition, forged in the fire of 
  public</DIV>
  <DIV>scrutiny, public debate, public development, public contributions, 
  and</DIV>
  <DIV>mass public testing. The quality and thoroughness that comes from such 
  a</DIV>
  <DIV>process can not be approached by any committee, no matter how 
  brilliant</DIV>
  <DIV>or experienced the committee members may be.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I believe that Sun should defer to Log4j, for the same good reasons 
  that</DIV>
  <DIV>it deferred to Tomcat.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Respectfully,</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>William Jaynes</DIV>
  
  
  1.1                  jakarta-log4j/docs/pub-support/index.html
  
  Index: index.html
  ===================================================================
  <HTML>
  
  <HEAD>
  <TITLE>Compilation of requests</TITLE>
  </HEAD>
  
  <BODY>
  
  
  <p>We thank the individuals listed below for their support in our
  effort to convince Sun to adopt log4j as the logging API shipped with
  JDK 1.4.
  
  <p>Do not hesitate to contact <a href="cgu@qos.ch">cgu@qos.ch</a> in
  case you are uncomfortable seeing your name or the contents of your
  request reproduced publicly.
  
  <p><UL>
  
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