You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ian <ia...@amham.net> on 2012/05/27 11:35:44 UTC
[Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
Hi,
I am interested in looking into the ODF documents produced by AOO with
a respect to the document schema etc.
One thing I noticed when creating a simple almost "Hello World"
document is that there are some unused and probably not required font
infomation in the content.xml.
<office:font-face-decls>
<style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari1"
svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"/>
<style:font-face style:name="URW Bookman L" svg:font-family="'URW
Bookman L'" style:font-adornments="Light"
style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif"
svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" style:font-family-generic="roman"
style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans"
svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" style:font-family-generic="swiss"
style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari"
svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"
style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="文泉驛正黑" svg:font-family="文泉驛正黑"
style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
</office:font-face-decls>
Is this by design? Why? Or some sort of bug?
Only the URW Bookman font is used by the few lines of text in the document.
And looking into the Styles xml document I see tons of possibly
redundant entries. There for possible future edits of the document? Eg
Footer styles.
Cheers,
Ian
Re: Fwd: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
Posted by Ian <ia...@amham.net>.
Thanks Rob,
makes sense,
The automatic styles seem non intuitively named to me, but thanks for
the explanation.
I shall check it out to clarify it in my little brain.
Cheers,
Ian
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Ian <ia...@amham.net> wrote:
>> Thanks Andrew,
>>
>> I am coming to that conclusion. I'm not sure why some of the styles
>> are there though.
>>
>> Are there some default styles in a vanilla new text document. The one
>> I have may have been based on some other and inherited its styles etc?
>>
>
> Think of it this way: a document is created based on a default
> template that has definitions for a harmonious set of styles. When
> the document is saved, it saves the definitions for all of these
> styles, not just the ones actually in use. Imagine if it were
> otherwise. I create a document that uses only header-1 and default
> paragraph styles. If I save with only those definitions, what happens
> when I (or someone else) tries to edit the document and wants to add a
> header-2, or a list, or a quotation? These style definitions would
> not exist.
>
> So, you really want to save the harmonious set of style definitions,
> so these styles have expected relationships in terms of font face,
> size, etc.
>
> That said, there is nothing wrong, from an ODF perspective, to omit
> unused style definitions. You could create a document like this from
> the Apache ODF Toolkit, and it would load correctly in OpenOffice.
> But, depending on the intended use, the user might expect to be able
> to pick from the full set of styles.
>
>> I see in the spec there are automatic styles too... which are inherant
>> in a given object. I will do some head scratching and more
>> reading/digging.
>>
>
> It works like this: Automatic styles are the styles created on the
> fly when the user directly applies attributes to objects rather than
> using a predefined, named style. So if you select some text and click
> the bold icon, and increase the font size to 14pt, then an automatic
> style is created to express that combination of attributes.
>
> -Rob
>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
>> <an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I did not bother to check the spec, but I will hazard a guess that the
>>> problem is that the information is in the style itself. If the information
>>> is in the style, then if it is not persisted then it will be lost.
>>>
>>> Are you looking at a style that has a parent style? I expect that if I
>>> create a child style and do NOT set a specific attribute, that it inherits
>>> the value from the parent and will not, therefore, be persisted into the
>>> file. The parent will have the values persisted, of course....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/27/2012 06:06 AM, Ian wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah I think I see why the font declarations are there now.
>>>> They are required to meet some of the style definitions.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm not sure why all those styles attriburtes are there?
>>>>
>>>> <style:text-properties style:use-window-font-color="true"
>>>> style:font-name="Liberation Serif" fo:font-size="12pt"
>>>> fo:language="en" fo:country="US" style:letter-kerning="true"
>>>> style:font-name-asian="文泉驛正黑" style:font-size-asian="12pt"
>>>> style:language-asian="zh" style:country-asian="CN"
>>>> style:font-name-complex="Lohit Devanagari"
>>>> style:font-size-complex="12pt" style:language-complex="hi"
>>>> style:country-complex="IN" fo:hyphenate="false"
>>>> fo:hyphenation-remain-char-count="2"
>>>> fo:hyphenation-push-char-count="2"/>
>>>>
>>>> Are they required?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Ian<ia...@amham.net>
>>>> Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM
>>>> Subject: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in looking into the ODF documents produced by AOO with
>>>> a respect to the document schema etc.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I noticed when creating a simple almost "Hello World"
>>>> document is that there are some unused and probably not required font
>>>> infomation in the content.xml.
>>>>
>>>> <office:font-face-decls>
>>>> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari1"
>>>> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"/>
>>>> <style:font-face style:name="URW Bookman L" svg:font-family="'URW
>>>> Bookman L'" style:font-adornments="Light"
>>>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>>> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif"
>>>> svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" style:font-family-generic="roman"
>>>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>>> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans"
>>>> svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" style:font-family-generic="swiss"
>>>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>>> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari"
>>>> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"
>>>> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>>> <style:font-face style:name="文泉驛正黑" svg:font-family="文泉驛正黑"
>>>> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>>> </office:font-face-decls>
>>>>
>>>> Is this by design? Why? Or some sort of bug?
>>>>
>>>> Only the URW Bookman font is used by the few lines of text in the
>>>> document.
>>>>
>>>> And looking into the Styles xml document I see tons of possibly
>>>> redundant entries. There for possible future edits of the document? Eg
>>>> Footer styles.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew Pitonyak
>>> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
>>> Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>>>
Re: Fwd: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Ian <ia...@amham.net> wrote:
> Thanks Andrew,
>
> I am coming to that conclusion. I'm not sure why some of the styles
> are there though.
>
> Are there some default styles in a vanilla new text document. The one
> I have may have been based on some other and inherited its styles etc?
>
Think of it this way: a document is created based on a default
template that has definitions for a harmonious set of styles. When
the document is saved, it saves the definitions for all of these
styles, not just the ones actually in use. Imagine if it were
otherwise. I create a document that uses only header-1 and default
paragraph styles. If I save with only those definitions, what happens
when I (or someone else) tries to edit the document and wants to add a
header-2, or a list, or a quotation? These style definitions would
not exist.
So, you really want to save the harmonious set of style definitions,
so these styles have expected relationships in terms of font face,
size, etc.
That said, there is nothing wrong, from an ODF perspective, to omit
unused style definitions. You could create a document like this from
the Apache ODF Toolkit, and it would load correctly in OpenOffice.
But, depending on the intended use, the user might expect to be able
to pick from the full set of styles.
> I see in the spec there are automatic styles too... which are inherant
> in a given object. I will do some head scratching and more
> reading/digging.
>
It works like this: Automatic styles are the styles created on the
fly when the user directly applies attributes to objects rather than
using a predefined, named style. So if you select some text and click
the bold icon, and increase the font size to 14pt, then an automatic
style is created to express that combination of attributes.
-Rob
> Thanks again.
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
> <an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>>
>> I did not bother to check the spec, but I will hazard a guess that the
>> problem is that the information is in the style itself. If the information
>> is in the style, then if it is not persisted then it will be lost.
>>
>> Are you looking at a style that has a parent style? I expect that if I
>> create a child style and do NOT set a specific attribute, that it inherits
>> the value from the parent and will not, therefore, be persisted into the
>> file. The parent will have the values persisted, of course....
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/27/2012 06:06 AM, Ian wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah I think I see why the font declarations are there now.
>>> They are required to meet some of the style definitions.
>>>
>>> But I'm not sure why all those styles attriburtes are there?
>>>
>>> <style:text-properties style:use-window-font-color="true"
>>> style:font-name="Liberation Serif" fo:font-size="12pt"
>>> fo:language="en" fo:country="US" style:letter-kerning="true"
>>> style:font-name-asian="文泉驛正黑" style:font-size-asian="12pt"
>>> style:language-asian="zh" style:country-asian="CN"
>>> style:font-name-complex="Lohit Devanagari"
>>> style:font-size-complex="12pt" style:language-complex="hi"
>>> style:country-complex="IN" fo:hyphenate="false"
>>> fo:hyphenation-remain-char-count="2"
>>> fo:hyphenation-push-char-count="2"/>
>>>
>>> Are they required?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Ian<ia...@amham.net>
>>> Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM
>>> Subject: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am interested in looking into the ODF documents produced by AOO with
>>> a respect to the document schema etc.
>>>
>>> One thing I noticed when creating a simple almost "Hello World"
>>> document is that there are some unused and probably not required font
>>> infomation in the content.xml.
>>>
>>> <office:font-face-decls>
>>> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari1"
>>> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"/>
>>> <style:font-face style:name="URW Bookman L" svg:font-family="'URW
>>> Bookman L'" style:font-adornments="Light"
>>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif"
>>> svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" style:font-family-generic="roman"
>>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans"
>>> svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" style:font-family-generic="swiss"
>>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari"
>>> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"
>>> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>> <style:font-face style:name="文泉驛正黑" svg:font-family="文泉驛正黑"
>>> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>>> </office:font-face-decls>
>>>
>>> Is this by design? Why? Or some sort of bug?
>>>
>>> Only the URW Bookman font is used by the few lines of text in the
>>> document.
>>>
>>> And looking into the Styles xml document I see tons of possibly
>>> redundant entries. There for possible future edits of the document? Eg
>>> Footer styles.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Pitonyak
>> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
>> Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>>
Re: Fwd: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
Posted by Ian <ia...@amham.net>.
Thanks Andrew,
I am coming to that conclusion. I'm not sure why some of the styles
are there though.
Are there some default styles in a vanilla new text document. The one
I have may have been based on some other and inherited its styles etc?
I see in the spec there are automatic styles too... which are inherant
in a given object. I will do some head scratching and more
reading/digging.
Thanks again.
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
<an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>
> I did not bother to check the spec, but I will hazard a guess that the
> problem is that the information is in the style itself. If the information
> is in the style, then if it is not persisted then it will be lost.
>
> Are you looking at a style that has a parent style? I expect that if I
> create a child style and do NOT set a specific attribute, that it inherits
> the value from the parent and will not, therefore, be persisted into the
> file. The parent will have the values persisted, of course....
>
>
>
> On 05/27/2012 06:06 AM, Ian wrote:
>>
>> Ah I think I see why the font declarations are there now.
>> They are required to meet some of the style definitions.
>>
>> But I'm not sure why all those styles attriburtes are there?
>>
>> <style:text-properties style:use-window-font-color="true"
>> style:font-name="Liberation Serif" fo:font-size="12pt"
>> fo:language="en" fo:country="US" style:letter-kerning="true"
>> style:font-name-asian="文泉驛正黑" style:font-size-asian="12pt"
>> style:language-asian="zh" style:country-asian="CN"
>> style:font-name-complex="Lohit Devanagari"
>> style:font-size-complex="12pt" style:language-complex="hi"
>> style:country-complex="IN" fo:hyphenate="false"
>> fo:hyphenation-remain-char-count="2"
>> fo:hyphenation-push-char-count="2"/>
>>
>> Are they required?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Ian<ia...@amham.net>
>> Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM
>> Subject: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am interested in looking into the ODF documents produced by AOO with
>> a respect to the document schema etc.
>>
>> One thing I noticed when creating a simple almost "Hello World"
>> document is that there are some unused and probably not required font
>> infomation in the content.xml.
>>
>> <office:font-face-decls>
>> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari1"
>> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"/>
>> <style:font-face style:name="URW Bookman L" svg:font-family="'URW
>> Bookman L'" style:font-adornments="Light"
>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif"
>> svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" style:font-family-generic="roman"
>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans"
>> svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" style:font-family-generic="swiss"
>> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari"
>> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"
>> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>> <style:font-face style:name="文泉驛正黑" svg:font-family="文泉驛正黑"
>> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
>> </office:font-face-decls>
>>
>> Is this by design? Why? Or some sort of bug?
>>
>> Only the URW Bookman font is used by the few lines of text in the
>> document.
>>
>> And looking into the Styles xml document I see tons of possibly
>> redundant entries. There for possible future edits of the document? Eg
>> Footer styles.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ian
>>
>
> --
> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>
Re: Fwd: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
I did not bother to check the spec, but I will hazard a guess that the
problem is that the information is in the style itself. If the
information is in the style, then if it is not persisted then it will be
lost.
Are you looking at a style that has a parent style? I expect that if I
create a child style and do NOT set a specific attribute, that it
inherits the value from the parent and will not, therefore, be persisted
into the file. The parent will have the values persisted, of course....
On 05/27/2012 06:06 AM, Ian wrote:
> Ah I think I see why the font declarations are there now.
> They are required to meet some of the style definitions.
>
> But I'm not sure why all those styles attriburtes are there?
>
> <style:text-properties style:use-window-font-color="true"
> style:font-name="Liberation Serif" fo:font-size="12pt"
> fo:language="en" fo:country="US" style:letter-kerning="true"
> style:font-name-asian="文泉驛正黑" style:font-size-asian="12pt"
> style:language-asian="zh" style:country-asian="CN"
> style:font-name-complex="Lohit Devanagari"
> style:font-size-complex="12pt" style:language-complex="hi"
> style:country-complex="IN" fo:hyphenate="false"
> fo:hyphenation-remain-char-count="2"
> fo:hyphenation-push-char-count="2"/>
>
> Are they required?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ian<ia...@amham.net>
> Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM
> Subject: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am interested in looking into the ODF documents produced by AOO with
> a respect to the document schema etc.
>
> One thing I noticed when creating a simple almost "Hello World"
> document is that there are some unused and probably not required font
> infomation in the content.xml.
>
> <office:font-face-decls>
> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari1"
> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"/>
> <style:font-face style:name="URW Bookman L" svg:font-family="'URW
> Bookman L'" style:font-adornments="Light"
> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif"
> svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" style:font-family-generic="roman"
> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans"
> svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" style:font-family-generic="swiss"
> style:font-pitch="variable"/>
> <style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari"
> svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"
> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
> <style:font-face style:name="文泉驛正黑" svg:font-family="文泉驛正黑"
> style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
> </office:font-face-decls>
>
> Is this by design? Why? Or some sort of bug?
>
> Only the URW Bookman font is used by the few lines of text in the document.
>
> And looking into the Styles xml document I see tons of possibly
> redundant entries. There for possible future edits of the document? Eg
> Footer styles.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
Fwd: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
Posted by Ian <ia...@amham.net>.
Ah I think I see why the font declarations are there now.
They are required to meet some of the style definitions.
But I'm not sure why all those styles attriburtes are there?
<style:text-properties style:use-window-font-color="true"
style:font-name="Liberation Serif" fo:font-size="12pt"
fo:language="en" fo:country="US" style:letter-kerning="true"
style:font-name-asian="文泉驛正黑" style:font-size-asian="12pt"
style:language-asian="zh" style:country-asian="CN"
style:font-name-complex="Lohit Devanagari"
style:font-size-complex="12pt" style:language-complex="hi"
style:country-complex="IN" fo:hyphenate="false"
fo:hyphenation-remain-char-count="2"
fo:hyphenation-push-char-count="2"/>
Are they required?
Cheers,
Ian
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ian <ia...@amham.net>
Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM
Subject: [Dev] Redundant information in ODF document
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Hi,
I am interested in looking into the ODF documents produced by AOO with
a respect to the document schema etc.
One thing I noticed when creating a simple almost "Hello World"
document is that there are some unused and probably not required font
infomation in the content.xml.
<office:font-face-decls>
<style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari1"
svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"/>
<style:font-face style:name="URW Bookman L" svg:font-family="'URW
Bookman L'" style:font-adornments="Light"
style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif"
svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" style:font-family-generic="roman"
style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans"
svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" style:font-family-generic="swiss"
style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="Lohit Devanagari"
svg:font-family="'Lohit Devanagari'"
style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
<style:font-face style:name="文泉驛正黑" svg:font-family="文泉驛正黑"
style:font-family-generic="system" style:font-pitch="variable"/>
</office:font-face-decls>
Is this by design? Why? Or some sort of bug?
Only the URW Bookman font is used by the few lines of text in the document.
And looking into the Styles xml document I see tons of possibly
redundant entries. There for possible future edits of the document? Eg
Footer styles.
Cheers,
Ian