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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org> on 2011/07/14 20:59:37 UTC
Committers and Contributors and PPMC
It is important to distinguish between contributors generally and the subset of contributors who happen to be committers. There are technical prerequisites and prerogatives to being a committer.
Many people have been contributors to OpenOffice.org when it was under the stewardship of Sun and Oracle. Many of those individuals, and others, are contributing here via the ooo-dev list, the community wiki, and even submission of patches. Contribution of code and patches and bug reports is currently rather limited until the code base has moved and there is an issue tracker in place. There is opportunity for extensive contribution of all kinds.
All contributions matter and a lively contributor community is critical. The committers simply have more they can do with regard to making changes directly rather than submitting them to a committer for review and acceptance.
Not all committers are on the PPMC (and, although rare in practice, not all PPMC members need be committers). The Initial Committers are also invited to be PPMC members and it is their option to join or not. Ordinarily, invitation of a committer to join the PPMC is done separately.
The PPMC deals with private matters (e.g., the invitation of committers and PPMC members) and security issues that require discretion and secrecy leading up to resolution.
It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when issues come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are binding and the votes of other project contributors and observers are not, although I am confident that non-binding votes are given careful attention.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: eric b [mailto:eric.bachard@free.fr]
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:12
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Commiters list
Hi,
Le 14 juil. 11 à 18:50, Frank Peters a écrit :
> Eric,
>
>> On this page http://incubator.apache.org/projects/
>> openofficeorg.html ,
>> there is a list of commiters. So far, I participated to the incubator
>> project, and I thought I was counted in the list.
>
> are you a committer (i.e. do you have commit rights)?
>
I'm listed on the incubator wiki page : http://wiki.apache.org/
incubator/OpenOfficeProposal
As "Initial Commiter"
>> Did I miss something ? How to be added in the list ?
>
> Become a committer. I think you will need to be invited by the PPMC.
I'm not sure to understand the "not invited". As reminder, I'm
OpenOffice.org developer since 2005, and did a lot for OpenOffice.org.
I really wonder what happens.
> But for that, you will need to sign a CLA which you do not want to
> do as you stated earlier.
>
In the current list, not everybody signed the ICLA, so why is it
important ?
Regards,
Eric Bachard
--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 7/14/2011 3:45 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> My impression is that voting is done on the list with +1,0,-1
> tabulation. That is how ballots have happened on the PPMC and it is
> how the ballots on the general@incubator are conducted.
Correct - in virtually all cases voting is done on the appropriate list
with +1/-1 (and various flavors of +0/-0 if you want to abstain). Note
that having the vote results on the mailing list - and there are often
comments included in votes - helps the whole community, including
lurkers, to understand how and why decisions are made here at Apache.
Note that each (P)PMC ends up having it's own details of how it reaches
consensus on dev@ and private@ lists. Some PMCs indeed only [VOTE] on
releases and new committers/new PMC members; for other decisions, they
have a simple discussion that continues until the general consensus of
the project is obvious (typically with more experienced PMCs). Other
PMCs [VOTE] on a variety of issues including significant technical or
code changes. Some projects use [VOTE]s, or even better, quick [POLL]s
just to gauge overall interest in specific new ideas or suggestions -
like "Hey, is it worth mocking up this crazy idea to see if we should
implement it?"
I think it will be primarily up to the actual committers on this project
to decide the general way that consensus is reached on this list. Note
that in healthy projects PMC members and committers certainly do pay
attention to the votes of non-committers on the list! However only
committers or PMC members (depending on the kind of vote) cast binding
votes, since they - especially PMC members - are the ones responsible
for managing the project.
I think an important concept to document well is that this is the Apache
OpenOffice podling. While it shares most of the code and the
trademarks, and a number of the goals of the OpenOffice.org project, it
is *not* the same project, nor will it be exactly the same community.
We need to find a positive and helpful way to say that, so we can manage
expectations of the many past committers (or contributors) on the
OpenOffice.org project when they come here and expect the same abilities
to help manage this new project.
- Shane
>
> The only case I can foresee off hand that might lead to [VOTE], if a
> [DISCUSS] does not demonstrate consensus, might be over the name of
> the project, the deliverable, and the domains of web sites once
> openoffice.org has transferred to Apache and we know the ASF policy,
> legal, and trademark constraints that have to be honored.
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message----- From: acolorado@gmail.com
> [mailto:acolorado@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexandro Colorado Sent:
> Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:20 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc:
> Dennis E. Hamilton Subject: Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Daniel
> Shahaf<d....@daniel.shahaf.name>wrote:
>
>> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:37 -0700:
>>> It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when
>>> issues come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are
>>> binding and the votes of other project contributors and observers
>>> are not, although I am confident that non-binding votes are given
>>> careful attention.
>>
>> That's correct. Furthermore, voting on technical issues is the
>> very rare exception rather than the rule. (Read: almost never
>> happens)
>>
>> We strongly prefer to operate by consensus.
>>
>
> Is this done through a rudimentary process of +1 on mailing lists or
> is there an app to perform quick polling campaings?
>
Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
What Dennis said.
There does exist a mechanism for conducting anonymous votes among
a specified group of individuals, for the *exceptionally* rare situation
where a straight email vote is inappropriate.
Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 12:45:17 -0700:
> My impression is that voting is done on the list with +1,0,-1
> tabulation. That is how ballots have happened on the PPMC and it is
> how the ballots on the general@incubator are conducted.
>
> The only case I can foresee off hand that might lead to [VOTE], if
> a [DISCUSS] does not demonstrate consensus, might be over the name of
> the project, the deliverable, and the domains of web sites once
> openoffice.org has transferred to Apache and we know the ASF policy,
> legal, and trademark constraints that have to be honored.
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: acolorado@gmail.com [mailto:acolorado@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexandro Colorado
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:20
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Dennis E. Hamilton
> Subject: Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>wrote:
>
> > Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:37 -0700:
> > > It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when issues
> > > come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are binding and
> > > the votes of other project contributors and observers are not,
> > > although I am confident that non-binding votes are given careful
> > > attention.
> >
> > That's correct. Furthermore, voting on technical issues is the very
> > rare exception rather than the rule. (Read: almost never happens)
> >
> > We strongly prefer to operate by consensus.
> >
>
> Is this done through a rudimentary process of +1 on mailing lists or is
> there an app to perform quick polling campaings?
>
> --
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
>
RE: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
My impression is that voting is done on the list with +1,0,-1 tabulation. That is how ballots have happened on the PPMC and it is how the ballots on the general@incubator are conducted.
The only case I can foresee off hand that might lead to [VOTE], if a [DISCUSS] does not demonstrate consensus, might be over the name of the project, the deliverable, and the domains of web sites once openoffice.org has transferred to Apache and we know the ASF policy, legal, and trademark constraints that have to be honored.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: acolorado@gmail.com [mailto:acolorado@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alexandro Colorado
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:20
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Dennis E. Hamilton
Subject: Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>wrote:
> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:37 -0700:
> > It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when issues
> > come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are binding and
> > the votes of other project contributors and observers are not,
> > although I am confident that non-binding votes are given careful
> > attention.
>
> That's correct. Furthermore, voting on technical issues is the very
> rare exception rather than the rule. (Read: almost never happens)
>
> We strongly prefer to operate by consensus.
>
Is this done through a rudimentary process of +1 on mailing lists or is
there an app to perform quick polling campaings?
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>wrote:
> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:37 -0700:
> > It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when issues
> > come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are binding and
> > the votes of other project contributors and observers are not,
> > although I am confident that non-binding votes are given careful
> > attention.
>
> That's correct. Furthermore, voting on technical issues is the very
> rare exception rather than the rule. (Read: almost never happens)
>
> We strongly prefer to operate by consensus.
>
Is this done through a rudimentary process of +1 on mailing lists or is
there an app to perform quick polling campaings?
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:37 -0700:
> It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when issues
> come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are binding and
> the votes of other project contributors and observers are not,
> although I am confident that non-binding votes are given careful
> attention.
That's correct. Furthermore, voting on technical issues is the very
rare exception rather than the rule. (Read: almost never happens)
We strongly prefer to operate by consensus.
Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> wrote:
> It is important to distinguish between contributors generally and the
> subset of contributors who happen to be committers. There are technical
> prerequisites and prerogatives to being a committer.
>
Might be good to have it on the wiki as on defined roles. I am sure apache
has that somewhere but is easier to point people to an OOo structure site.
Right now we only hang a list of people involved with the project.
> Many people have been contributors to OpenOffice.org when it was under the
> stewardship of Sun and Oracle. Many of those individuals, and others, are
> contributing here via the ooo-dev list, the community wiki, and even
> submission of patches. Contribution of code and patches and bug reports is
> currently rather limited until the code base has moved and there is an issue
> tracker in place. There is opportunity for extensive contribution of all
> kinds.
>
> All contributions matter and a lively contributor community is critical.
> The committers simply have more they can do with regard to making changes
> directly rather than submitting them to a committer for review and
> acceptance.
>
> Not all committers are on the PPMC (and, although rare in practice, not all
> PPMC members need be committers). The Initial Committers are also invited
> to be PPMC members and it is their option to join or not. Ordinarily,
> invitation of a committer to join the PPMC is done separately.
>
> The PPMC deals with private matters (e.g., the invitation of committers and
> PPMC members) and security issues that require discretion and secrecy
> leading up to resolution.
>
> It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when issues come
> to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are binding and the votes
> of other project contributors and observers are not, although I am confident
> that non-binding votes are given careful attention.
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eric b [mailto:eric.bachard@free.fr]
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:12
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Commiters list
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Le 14 juil. 11 à 18:50, Frank Peters a écrit :
>
> > Eric,
> >
> >> On this page http://incubator.apache.org/projects/
> >> openofficeorg.html ,
> >> there is a list of commiters. So far, I participated to the incubator
> >> project, and I thought I was counted in the list.
> >
> > are you a committer (i.e. do you have commit rights)?
> >
>
>
> I'm listed on the incubator wiki page : http://wiki.apache.org/
> incubator/OpenOfficeProposal
>
> As "Initial Commiter"
>
>
>
> >> Did I miss something ? How to be added in the list ?
> >
> > Become a committer. I think you will need to be invited by the PPMC.
>
>
> I'm not sure to understand the "not invited". As reminder, I'm
> OpenOffice.org developer since 2005, and did a lot for OpenOffice.org.
>
> I really wonder what happens.
>
>
>
> > But for that, you will need to sign a CLA which you do not want to
> > do as you stated earlier.
> >
>
> In the current list, not everybody signed the ICLA, so why is it
> important ?
>
>
> Regards,
> Eric Bachard
>
>
> --
> qɔᴉɹə
> Education Project:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
> Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
> L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
> Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org