Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Tapestry 5.9.1 released

[Giulio Micali <gi...@gmail.com>]

Switched to it 2 weeks ago from an old 5.1 personal project but:
- i spent 1 week to upgrade tapestry-boot with the *-jakarta libraries, and
honestly i made a mess with the filter, not knowing what i was doing.
- There were "javax.servlet" Exceptions everywhere, I found the jakarta
maven deps just by accident...ecc...
A waste of time.

Isn't it time to take charge of that project ad include it in your packages
? and the same for the Eclipse plugin.
They are not mantained by almost 10 years.

Just my 2 cents,

Cheers,
Giulio

Il giorno mer 29 apr 2026 alle ore 14:47 Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
thiagohp@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Hello!
>
> Tapestry 5.9.1 has been released and it's a recommended upgrade for
> projects using Tapestry 5.7.0+.
>
> Highlights:
>
> TAP5-2814 Upgrade ASM to 9.9
> TAP5-2758 Constructor/Builder injection should support @Symbol for
> List/Collection/Map even without @Inject
> TAP5-2813 NPE when @Cached applied to method returning a generic type
> in multiple classloader mode
>
> Happy coding!
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Software developer/engineer
> Apache Tapestry consultant, committer and project management committee
> member
> You can sponsor my work on Tapestry at
> https://github.com/sponsors/machina-br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>

-- 
Giulio Micali

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Tapestry 5.9.1 released

[Giulio Micali <gi...@gmail.com>]

Hi Volker,
I don't get if you are fooling me or what. you call 7 classes a "project",
when 85% or more of that is a copycat of your code ?

I don't call it a project, I call it a demo, a contribution "already
forked, already died, nobody cares".
If you don't agree with this definition, i can understand: you haven't the
need to fork.
Do you really think that the author copied so much for a different reason
that he had no choice, except hoping that you will integrate the idea in a
module, where it belongs ?

And yes, sarcasm again. After all,it's the more appropriate answer to
condescension.

Because if you get a technical(o strategic, as you wish) advice and you
tell me "It's a bad idea, we don't want to taint our splendid framework
putting that ***** of spring in the frontline", that is a serious answer.
People will see it, and does their Math.
if you(Ben) quote the entire history of open source, licensing(remember,
85%), no-time(10 years) ecc.., and you(you) suggest ME to continue
refreshing the copy/paste routine of YOUR code in another repo ?

Then you must be kidding. Very professional.
And no thanks, I already had been there, putting a fork of your code in the
trashcan because at each version the internals changes(when it wasn't
javascript).
if YOU want, I'll send you the project privately, rewritten with feet, but
it works and has the right dependencies resolved for spring boot 3.3.5 and
jakarta in the pom.
Your effort will be only the gradle module and code restyle.

Have fun


Il giorno mar 12 mag 2026 alle ore 11:32 Volker Lamp <vl...@apache.org> ha
scritto:

> Hi Giulio,
>
> I think Ben's reply was actually quite thorough and good-faith — he
> explained the real constraints the project faces, outlined concrete
> ideas for improvement, and even invited further contributions.
> Summarizing it as "fork or die" doesn't do it justice.
>
> That said, your frustration is understandable, and the points you raised
> about the developer experience are welcome. (The aggressive/sarcastic
> tone isn't, though.) The javax/jakarta migration was painful for
> everyone, and Spring Boot-style bootstrapping — just adding a dependency
> and having things work — is what many find convenient.
>
> We're a small team of volunteers, and we genuinely can't do everything —
> but that also means contributions from people who have just gone through
> the pain of modernizing old code are especially valuable. You clearly
> have a good understanding of what's missing. You could contribute back
> to the community by taking "ownership" of tapestry-boot. Happy to
> include a reference to it on the Tapestry website.
>
> The door is open.
>
> Cheers
>
> Volker
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>

-- 
Giulio Micali

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Tapestry 5.9.1 released

[Volker Lamp <vl...@apache.org>]

Hi Giulio,

I think Ben's reply was actually quite thorough and good-faith — he 
explained the real constraints the project faces, outlined concrete 
ideas for improvement, and even invited further contributions. 
Summarizing it as "fork or die" doesn't do it justice.

That said, your frustration is understandable, and the points you raised 
about the developer experience are welcome. (The aggressive/sarcastic 
tone isn't, though.) The javax/jakarta migration was painful for 
everyone, and Spring Boot-style bootstrapping — just adding a dependency 
and having things work — is what many find convenient.

We're a small team of volunteers, and we genuinely can't do everything — 
but that also means contributions from people who have just gone through 
the pain of modernizing old code are especially valuable. You clearly 
have a good understanding of what's missing. You could contribute back 
to the community by taking "ownership" of tapestry-boot. Happy to 
include a reference to it on the Tapestry website.

The door is open.

Cheers

Volker



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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Tapestry 5.9.1 released

[Giulio Micali <gi...@gmail.com>]

Hi Ben,
a simple "fork or die" would have been enough as reply.

Of course these kind of answers always made look Tapestry as a "personal
toy" for few elected, not a so called "Opensource Framework" where people
contributes.
This is your "visibility", and I'm glad to see that nothing has changed in
15 years.

Maybe it wasn't clear that it was my contribution, a report of
user-experience, So i'll make it more explicit:
<contrib>
Problems:
- Nobody in 2026 wants to write a web.xml, build a WAR, make an
installation of tomcat and find an exotic way to deploy the war. We are not
in the stone age.
- people wants to add dependencies to their maven project, and the
application will run: this is provided 99% by SPRING BOOT, you like it or
not.
- 15 years ago, you were in competition with JSF, that sucks. Today(let's
say 8 years ago) there is Angular.
- Angular copied your component/template system: coming from Tapestry, it
took me 1 hour to make my first POC, not 1 week just to bootstrap your IOC.
- Angular has the advantage to be already on client side. You will never be
capable to provide all the "special effects" provided by thousands of
components in the NPM repo.
- the ONLY 2 reasons to NOT use Angular instead of Tapestry:
   1> different language than the server side
   2> an entire different build system(and some people ike me doesn't want
to manage a local NPM repo in his home/company lab).
   Not big deals, but may count.

Consequence:
- your framework had been forgotten.

Solution:
- stay tuned with the framework that REALLY starts the application(that is
not made only by frontend).
</contrib>


Besides,I guess you haven't even watched the project you can't afford "to
cooperate" with.

Here it is the original one: (for spring boot 1.4)
https://github.com/code8/tapestry-boot/tree/master/src/main/java/info/code8/tapestry/

It contains a very huge amount of code: 7 classes.
- 6 of those classes you don't need even to open, you will recognize the
names. They are an outdated copy of yours. (and the servlet filter does NOT
manage the ASYNC request handler)
- the last is a spring initializer, used to start the Registry, and I don't
understand why a poor guy must write code to start an IOC: shouldn't be the
opposite ?

Now, that was HIS contribution, but is unmantained by 9 years. Guess why ?


Good luck, with this attitude you will need it.

Il giorno sab 9 mag 2026 alle ore 11:53 Ben Weidig <be...@netzgut.net> ha
scritto:

> Hi Guilio,
>
> the whole javax/jakarta forced migration was a mess for many open-source
> projects, especially when they wanted to support both variants.
>
> You updated a project with a 17-year-old Tapestry version using another
> repository that’s almost 10 years without any updates? Even moving only the
> version from javax to Jakarta can be quite a lot of work…
>
>
> We actually discussed how to improve working with third-party projects, but
> “taking charge” and including them directly into the Tapestry project is
> almost never a viable option.
>
> We have quite limited resources, and every new module/project we add to the
> main project creates a long-term commitment to keep it up-to-date, react to
> any upstream issues, and make sure dependencies don’t clash, etc.
>
> Furthermore, a project might not even have a compatible license to begin
> with.
> tapestry-boot, for example, lacks one completely, making it impossible to
> use that code in any way.
>
> From the GitHub docs: “However, without a license, the default copyright
> laws apply, meaning that you retain all rights to your source code and no
> one may reproduce, distribute, or create derivative works from your work.”
>
>
> https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository#choosing-the-right-license
>
>
> The tapestry-eclipse plugin is a different beast.
> My colleagues and I use it every day, and I thought about forking it in the
> past. But Dmitry keeps it running, there’s a software update-site, and it
> works for the parts we use it for.
>
> Let’s say we’d fork it into Tapestry project.
> I’ve never worked on an Eclipse plugin before, and as far as I know, none
> of the other active devs have, too.
> So we’d need to support a project that no one knows how to actually do.
> If a new Eclipse version is released and breaks it, the community now
> expects us to fix it, draining resources we could use for other things.
>
> And what about IntelliJ?
> Why is there only an “official” Eclipse plugin?
>
> There are so many cool things out there that would be nice to be included
> directly in Tapestry.
> But if we start including them, there’s no end to the work and additional
> technical debt it would create…
>
>
> But there’s still something we want to do, as there are a lot of awesome
> third-party projects out there that many people have never heard about, us
> included!
> We’d like to make them more visible and support them to be more up-to-date.
>
> We’re thinking about creating a “community umbrella” for third-party
> projects.
>
> One thing would be “awesome” list for what’s out there, like
> https://github.com/akullpp/awesome-java
>
> The other thing would be allowing people to bring their project under the
> umbrella, so they are discoverable at one place and are closer to the
> primary project.
> Being its own thing, the umbrella would not same commitment/expectations as
> the primary project does.
>
> The community projects might not get updated as soon as a new Tapestry
> version is released.
> But having them under one roof makes problems more visible, and anyone can
> provide a PR to update, and they can have maintainers outside of Apache
> committers.
>
>
> Of course, there are still a lot of question marks to such an idea… like
> how to keep it separated from Apache Tapestry, to not bring in
> trademark/license issues.
>
> What format should the umbrella have?
> GitHub organisation?
> What projects should be eligible?
> Who decides?
> ...
>
>
> Our current focus as a project is on strengthening the foundation.
>
> The next release, 5.10, will have a totally revamped build/Gradle setup
> that hopefully will serve us well for a few years.
> A new website is almost done, with versioned documentation and an easier
> way to participate.
> There are a lot of things in the works currently, but also even more things
> that need to be done in the future.
>
> You have to remember that we are all volunteers and our resources are
> limited.
> We try our best to move the project forward.
> But that also means that some things will take longer than others, or never
> get done at all.
> And it might not be easily clear why something was prioritized, or not.
>
> But as this is open-source, anyone is invited to join and contribute ;-)
>
> Cheers
> Ben
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2026 at 5:32 AM Giulio Micali <gi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Switched to it 2 weeks ago from an old 5.1 personal project but:
> > - i spent 1 week to upgrade tapestry-boot with the *-jakarta libraries,
> and
> > honestly i made a mess with the filter, not knowing what i was doing.
> > - There were "javax.servlet" Exceptions everywhere, I found the jakarta
> > maven deps just by accident...ecc...
> > A waste of time.
> >
> > Isn't it time to take charge of that project ad include it in your
> packages
> > ? and the same for the Eclipse plugin.
> > They are not mantained by almost 10 years.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents,
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Giulio
> >
> > Il giorno mer 29 apr 2026 alle ore 14:47 Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
> > thiagohp@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > Tapestry 5.9.1 has been released and it's a recommended upgrade for
> > > projects using Tapestry 5.7.0+.
> > >
> > > Highlights:
> > >
> > > TAP5-2814 Upgrade ASM to 9.9
> > > TAP5-2758 Constructor/Builder injection should support @Symbol for
> > > List/Collection/Map even without @Inject
> > > TAP5-2813 NPE when @Cached applied to method returning a generic type
> > > in multiple classloader mode
> > >
> > > Happy coding!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> > > Software developer/engineer
> > > Apache Tapestry consultant, committer and project management committee
> > > member
> > > You can sponsor my work on Tapestry at
> > > https://github.com/sponsors/machina-br
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Giulio Micali
> >
>


-- 
Giulio Micali

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Tapestry 5.9.1 released

[Ben Weidig <be...@netzgut.net>]

Hi Guilio,

the whole javax/jakarta forced migration was a mess for many open-source
projects, especially when they wanted to support both variants.

You updated a project with a 17-year-old Tapestry version using another
repository that’s almost 10 years without any updates? Even moving only the
version from javax to Jakarta can be quite a lot of work…


We actually discussed how to improve working with third-party projects, but
“taking charge” and including them directly into the Tapestry project is
almost never a viable option.

We have quite limited resources, and every new module/project we add to the
main project creates a long-term commitment to keep it up-to-date, react to
any upstream issues, and make sure dependencies don’t clash, etc.

Furthermore, a project might not even have a compatible license to begin
with.
tapestry-boot, for example, lacks one completely, making it impossible to
use that code in any way.

From the GitHub docs: “However, without a license, the default copyright
laws apply, meaning that you retain all rights to your source code and no
one may reproduce, distribute, or create derivative works from your work.”

https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository#choosing-the-right-license


The tapestry-eclipse plugin is a different beast.
My colleagues and I use it every day, and I thought about forking it in the
past. But Dmitry keeps it running, there’s a software update-site, and it
works for the parts we use it for.

Let’s say we’d fork it into Tapestry project.
I’ve never worked on an Eclipse plugin before, and as far as I know, none
of the other active devs have, too.
So we’d need to support a project that no one knows how to actually do.
If a new Eclipse version is released and breaks it, the community now
expects us to fix it, draining resources we could use for other things.

And what about IntelliJ?
Why is there only an “official” Eclipse plugin?

There are so many cool things out there that would be nice to be included
directly in Tapestry.
But if we start including them, there’s no end to the work and additional
technical debt it would create…


But there’s still something we want to do, as there are a lot of awesome
third-party projects out there that many people have never heard about, us
included!
We’d like to make them more visible and support them to be more up-to-date.

We’re thinking about creating a “community umbrella” for third-party
projects.

One thing would be “awesome” list for what’s out there, like
https://github.com/akullpp/awesome-java

The other thing would be allowing people to bring their project under the
umbrella, so they are discoverable at one place and are closer to the
primary project.
Being its own thing, the umbrella would not same commitment/expectations as
the primary project does.

The community projects might not get updated as soon as a new Tapestry
version is released.
But having them under one roof makes problems more visible, and anyone can
provide a PR to update, and they can have maintainers outside of Apache
committers.


Of course, there are still a lot of question marks to such an idea… like
how to keep it separated from Apache Tapestry, to not bring in
trademark/license issues.

What format should the umbrella have?
GitHub organisation?
What projects should be eligible?
Who decides?
...


Our current focus as a project is on strengthening the foundation.

The next release, 5.10, will have a totally revamped build/Gradle setup
that hopefully will serve us well for a few years.
A new website is almost done, with versioned documentation and an easier
way to participate.
There are a lot of things in the works currently, but also even more things
that need to be done in the future.

You have to remember that we are all volunteers and our resources are
limited.
We try our best to move the project forward.
But that also means that some things will take longer than others, or never
get done at all.
And it might not be easily clear why something was prioritized, or not.

But as this is open-source, anyone is invited to join and contribute ;-)

Cheers
Ben


On Sat, May 9, 2026 at 5:32 AM Giulio Micali <gi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Switched to it 2 weeks ago from an old 5.1 personal project but:
> - i spent 1 week to upgrade tapestry-boot with the *-jakarta libraries, and
> honestly i made a mess with the filter, not knowing what i was doing.
> - There were "javax.servlet" Exceptions everywhere, I found the jakarta
> maven deps just by accident...ecc...
> A waste of time.
>
> Isn't it time to take charge of that project ad include it in your packages
> ? and the same for the Eclipse plugin.
> They are not mantained by almost 10 years.
>
> Just my 2 cents,
>
> Cheers,
> Giulio
>
> Il giorno mer 29 apr 2026 alle ore 14:47 Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
> thiagohp@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > Tapestry 5.9.1 has been released and it's a recommended upgrade for
> > projects using Tapestry 5.7.0+.
> >
> > Highlights:
> >
> > TAP5-2814 Upgrade ASM to 9.9
> > TAP5-2758 Constructor/Builder injection should support @Symbol for
> > List/Collection/Map even without @Inject
> > TAP5-2813 NPE when @Cached applied to method returning a generic type
> > in multiple classloader mode
> >
> > Happy coding!
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> > Software developer/engineer
> > Apache Tapestry consultant, committer and project management committee
> > member
> > You can sponsor my work on Tapestry at
> > https://github.com/sponsors/machina-br
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> Giulio Micali
>