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Posted to dev@airflow.apache.org by Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> on 2016/08/22 18:29:59 UTC
Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Hey all-
Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_committers/archives/all,
similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
"Airflow_committers."
As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
*has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
on the next IPMC report...
-Jakob
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
Why not use to IRC instead? Airflow_users for user user related questions and airflow_dev for developing related questions. Both obviously open to anyone but with a different topic. With a good channel bot archives will be available automatically and public. If really needed a log can even be sent to the mailing list.
Or whatever else that allows a faster stream and topic based discussion publicly.
B.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:42, Chris Nauroth <cn...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Jakob. Please make these changes. Additionally, I ask that if any prior discussion on the private Gitter channel culminated in a significant project decision (design choice, whether or not to commit a pull request, etc.), then please recap that publicly on ASF infrastructure (mailing list, JIRA, etc.). If any of the discussion was a PMC decision that legitimately needed a restricted audience, then please use the private mailing list.
>
> --Chris Nauroth
>
> On 8/22/16, 11:29 AM, "Jakob Homan" <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all-
> Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
> discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_committers/archives/all,
> similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
> "Airflow_committers."
>
> As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
> *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
> to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
> exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
>
> We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
> on the next IPMC report...
>
> -Jakob
>
>
>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Chris Nauroth <cn...@hortonworks.com>.
I agree with Jakob. Please make these changes. Additionally, I ask that if any prior discussion on the private Gitter channel culminated in a significant project decision (design choice, whether or not to commit a pull request, etc.), then please recap that publicly on ASF infrastructure (mailing list, JIRA, etc.). If any of the discussion was a PMC decision that legitimately needed a restricted audience, then please use the private mailing list.
--Chris Nauroth
On 8/22/16, 11:29 AM, "Jakob Homan" <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all-
Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_committers/archives/all,
similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
"Airflow_committers."
As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
*has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
on the next IPMC report...
-Jakob
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
Unfortunately chat rooms cannot be made public/private after creation. See
https://github.com/gitterHQ/gitter/issues/676
I have created #airflow and #airflow-dev on freenode.net (IRC). I have requested
logging with botbot.me (https://botbot.me), although that may take a while to come
through. Links to the logs will updated once available.
If you are behind a corporate firewall or don’t have an irc client you can try this:
Dev:
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#airflow-dev
Users:
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#airflow
Otherwise do the usual.
Cheers
Bolke.
> Op 23 aug. 2016, om 04:37 heeft siddharth anand <sa...@apache.org> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Sure, we can make it public for posterity if that will alleviate concerns
> about openness. I don't think it will provide any value to do so because
> it will create 2 channels for the same group and will then be super hard
> for anyone to follow a conversation. As it is, with JIRA emails, PR emails,
> and dev list emails, I find it impossible to keep up. I'm completely unable
> to keep up with most gitter conversations as it is.
>
> I'd vote to just delete that channel. Gitter, AFAIK, does not support the
> option to provide a read only archive of a dead (unjoinable) channel, so I
> feel closing the channel via filing an infra request is the best route.
>
> Ironically, the committers' channel above was created prior to the Apache
> Incubation move to discuss the move to Apache and to coordinate the work
> required. Once Airflow moved to the Apache Incubator and the Git repo's
> ownership transitioned to the ASF Infra team, we (the members of the
> channel) lost the ability to delete this channel and let it continue its
> life out of laziness.
>
> -s
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So we ask infra to make it public?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 23 aug. 2016, at 04:02, siddharth anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> No one on this thread owns that channel, so all we can do is leave it.
>> The
>>> owner is ASF Infra.
>>>
>>> -s
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gitter is fine and the public channel I linked to in the original
>>>> email is fine. It's functionally no different than IRC. The channel
>>>> just has to be open for any one rather than invite only.
>>>>
>>>> -Jakob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22 August 2016 at 13:10, Maxime Beauchemin
>>>> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think Gitter must have just transferred along as we moved the repo.
>> I'm
>>>>> personally open to using IRC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Max
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they
>>>>>> (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this
>>>>>> happening on ASF infrastructure?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bolke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all-
>>>>>>> Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
>>>>>>> discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
>>>>>>> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_
>>>>>> committers/archives/all,
>>>>>>> similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
>>>>>>> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
>>>>>>> "Airflow_committers."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
>>>>>>> *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
>>>>>>> to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
>>>>>>> exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
>>>>>>> on the next IPMC report...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Jakob
>>>>
>>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by siddharth anand <sa...@apache.org>.
Sure, we can make it public for posterity if that will alleviate concerns
about openness. I don't think it will provide any value to do so because
it will create 2 channels for the same group and will then be super hard
for anyone to follow a conversation. As it is, with JIRA emails, PR emails,
and dev list emails, I find it impossible to keep up. I'm completely unable
to keep up with most gitter conversations as it is.
I'd vote to just delete that channel. Gitter, AFAIK, does not support the
option to provide a read only archive of a dead (unjoinable) channel, so I
feel closing the channel via filing an infra request is the best route.
Ironically, the committers' channel above was created prior to the Apache
Incubation move to discuss the move to Apache and to coordinate the work
required. Once Airflow moved to the Apache Incubator and the Git repo's
ownership transitioned to the ASF Infra team, we (the members of the
channel) lost the ability to delete this channel and let it continue its
life out of laziness.
-s
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So we ask infra to make it public?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 23 aug. 2016, at 04:02, siddharth anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > No one on this thread owns that channel, so all we can do is leave it.
> The
> > owner is ASF Infra.
> >
> > -s
> >
> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gitter is fine and the public channel I linked to in the original
> >> email is fine. It's functionally no different than IRC. The channel
> >> just has to be open for any one rather than invite only.
> >>
> >> -Jakob
> >>
> >>
> >> On 22 August 2016 at 13:10, Maxime Beauchemin
> >> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I think Gitter must have just transferred along as we moved the repo.
> I'm
> >>> personally open to using IRC.
> >>>
> >>> Max
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they
> >>>> (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
> >>>>
> >>>> Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this
> >>>> happening on ASF infrastructure?
> >>>>
> >>>> Bolke.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey all-
> >>>>> Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
> >>>>> discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
> >>>>> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_
> >>>> committers/archives/all,
> >>>>> similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
> >>>>> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
> >>>>> "Airflow_committers."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
> >>>>> *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
> >>>>> to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
> >>>>> exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
> >>>>> on the next IPMC report...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Jakob
> >>
>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
So we ask infra to make it public?
Sent from my iPhone
> On 23 aug. 2016, at 04:02, siddharth anand <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> No one on this thread owns that channel, so all we can do is leave it. The
> owner is ASF Infra.
>
> -s
>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gitter is fine and the public channel I linked to in the original
>> email is fine. It's functionally no different than IRC. The channel
>> just has to be open for any one rather than invite only.
>>
>> -Jakob
>>
>>
>> On 22 August 2016 at 13:10, Maxime Beauchemin
>> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think Gitter must have just transferred along as we moved the repo. I'm
>>> personally open to using IRC.
>>>
>>> Max
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they
>>>> (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this
>>>> happening on ASF infrastructure?
>>>>
>>>> Bolke.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey all-
>>>>> Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
>>>>> discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
>>>>> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_
>>>> committers/archives/all,
>>>>> similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
>>>>> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
>>>>> "Airflow_committers."
>>>>>
>>>>> As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
>>>>> *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
>>>>> to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
>>>>> exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
>>>>> on the next IPMC report...
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jakob
>>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by siddharth anand <sa...@apache.org>.
No one on this thread owns that channel, so all we can do is leave it. The
owner is ASF Infra.
-s
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gitter is fine and the public channel I linked to in the original
> email is fine. It's functionally no different than IRC. The channel
> just has to be open for any one rather than invite only.
>
> -Jakob
>
>
> On 22 August 2016 at 13:10, Maxime Beauchemin
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think Gitter must have just transferred along as we moved the repo. I'm
> > personally open to using IRC.
> >
> > Max
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they
> >> (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
> >>
> >> Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this
> >> happening on ASF infrastructure?
> >>
> >> Bolke.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hey all-
> >> > Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
> >> > discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
> >> > https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_
> >> committers/archives/all,
> >> > similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
> >> > https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
> >> > "Airflow_committers."
> >> >
> >> > As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
> >> > *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
> >> > to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
> >> > exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
> >> >
> >> > We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
> >> > on the next IPMC report...
> >> >
> >> > -Jakob
> >>
>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com>.
Gitter is fine and the public channel I linked to in the original
email is fine. It's functionally no different than IRC. The channel
just has to be open for any one rather than invite only.
-Jakob
On 22 August 2016 at 13:10, Maxime Beauchemin
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think Gitter must have just transferred along as we moved the repo. I'm
> personally open to using IRC.
>
> Max
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they
>> (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
>>
>> Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this
>> happening on ASF infrastructure?
>>
>> Bolke.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey all-
>> > Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
>> > discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
>> > https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_
>> committers/archives/all,
>> > similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
>> > https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
>> > "Airflow_committers."
>> >
>> > As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
>> > *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
>> > to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
>> > exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
>> >
>> > We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
>> > on the next IPMC report...
>> >
>> > -Jakob
>>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Maxime Beauchemin <ma...@gmail.com>.
I think Gitter must have just transferred along as we moved the repo. I'm
personally open to using IRC.
Max
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they
> (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
>
> Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this
> happening on ASF infrastructure?
>
> Bolke.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey all-
> > Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
> > discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
> > https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_
> committers/archives/all,
> > similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
> > https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
> > "Airflow_committers."
> >
> > As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
> > *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
> > to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
> > exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
> >
> > We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
> > on the next IPMC report...
> >
> > -Jakob
>
Re: Private channel being used for discussion on gitter
Posted by Bolke de Bruin <bd...@gmail.com>.
Also who is the owner of this room? It seems created by Apache so they (INFRA?) can set it to public? Logs will be public then by default.
Wasn't there some discussion on a more relaxed requirement of this happening on ASF infrastructure?
Bolke.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 22 aug. 2016, at 20:29, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all-
> Apparently there is a private channel being used for project
> discussion on gitter (the archive would be here:
> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/Airflow_committers/archives/all,
> similar to the public archive of the regular gitter channel:
> https://gitter.im/apache/incubator-airflow/archives/all), titled
> "Airflow_committers."
>
> As has been discussed before, all non-PMC level ASF communication
> *has* to be in a public accessible forum (preferably that is archived
> to an ASF list). Even if well intentioned, these channels are
> exclusionary and absolutely verboten per ASF.
>
> We need to open or shut that channel down and make sure we note this
> on the next IPMC report...
>
> -Jakob