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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> on 2012/05/16 11:57:02 UTC
[PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Hello All,
I would like to propose the creation of an
ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in the
UX community is growing.
It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and channel
our creative energy ;)
I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join me.
I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
Regards,
Kevin
AOO User Experience Designer
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com>.
Hi.
2012/5/16 Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
> Hello All,
>
> I would like to propose the creation of an
> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
>
> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in the
> UX community is growing.
>
> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and channel
> our creative energy ;)
>
> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join me.
>
> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
>
+1
Kevin, create on JIRA about mailing list. :)
You need have at least three moderators.
Albino
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com>.
Hi.
I'll reinforce what Rob said.
We can use the marketing list, the UX is also a form of marketing
ooo-marketing [at] incubator [dot] apache [dot] org
Albino
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Yue Helen <he...@gmail.com>.
I will personally join the UX discussion...although not sure if I have time
to be the moderator; if you do need the 3rd one, I'm happy to help for
now. I'm not a UX profession, but I ever had a small UX design team, and
involved a lot of discussion with them, and I knew office product quite
well and very interested in this area ^o*.
Good that some people here are interested to join the discussion...I
suggest we can do discussion on both lists with different focus. UX mail
list and blog gives us some space to focus on UX
strategy/plan/design/issues, while we still need to reach users/developers
on the dev list or user list to get their voice quite frequently...for
example, do the user study, and get feedback, review designs, and actually
many to do! Let's give it a try...
Helen
2012/5/17 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> Am Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2012 um 21:04 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > 2012/5/16 Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> >
> > >
> > > On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > > From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> > > > nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> > > > ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> > > > created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> > > > communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> > > > At least not yet.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> > Actually, I would like to know who else is involved with UX. I've posted
> > some threads about this issue here and received few replies. As long I
> can
> > see, there are three to five people wishing to start this up, me, Kevin,
> > Albino and maybe we could count on Raul. When I created PT-BR wiki
> > section, a guy who contacted me at my wiki discussion page (Adailton if I
> > can remember), but I'm not sure if he is in this list, and I don't know
> if
> > he is involved with UX. Anybody else?
> >
> I think UX is close related to dev and I would prefer to keep the
> discussion here on ooo-dev for now. Use a well chosen tag [UX] or a longer
> one but the discussion should take place here on the dev list. We can of
> course create a list on demand when we think the traffic is so huge that a
> separate list make sense.
>
> Juergen
> >
> > --
> > Paulo de Souza Lima
> > http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> > Curitiba - PR
> > Linux User #432358
> > Ubuntu User #28729
> >
> >
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
Am Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2012 um 21:04 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> 2012/5/16 Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>
> >
> > On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> > > nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> > > ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> > > created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> > > communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> > > At least not yet.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
>
> Actually, I would like to know who else is involved with UX. I've posted
> some threads about this issue here and received few replies. As long I can
> see, there are three to five people wishing to start this up, me, Kevin,
> Albino and maybe we could count on Raul. When I created PT-BR wiki
> section, a guy who contacted me at my wiki discussion page (Adailton if I
> can remember), but I'm not sure if he is in this list, and I don't know if
> he is involved with UX. Anybody else?
>
I think UX is close related to dev and I would prefer to keep the discussion here on ooo-dev for now. Use a well chosen tag [UX] or a longer one but the discussion should take place here on the dev list. We can of course create a list on demand when we think the traffic is so huge that a separate list make sense.
Juergen
>
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>.
2012/5/16 Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
>
> On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> > nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> > ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> > created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> > communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> > At least not yet.
>
> Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
Actually, I would like to know who else is involved with UX. I've posted
some threads about this issue here and received few replies. As long I can
see, there are three to five people wishing to start this up, me, Kevin,
Albino and maybe we could count on Raul. When I created PT-BR wiki
section, a guy who contacted me at my wiki discussion page (Adailton if I
can remember), but I'm not sure if he is in this list, and I don't know if
he is involved with UX. Anybody else?
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Hello All,
Thanks for the input. Here is what I'm hearing...
- project acknowledges that design matters, this is great
- interest in UX-related activities and supporting discussion is high
- UX community, is just restarting, and is still growing it's numbers
- development would prefer to have visibility into the design conversation
- design and development need to work together
- if a ux mailing list were created, it should only be a tool as part of a
broader UX community development strategy
- ux planning is different that a design conversation
Some good thoughts here. Thanks for sharing.
Based on this feedback here are some thoughts and proposal to move forward,
- to keep design and development working closely on the enhancement of our
current offering, and to work together on the design direction of future
release let's continue to use ooo-dev for user experience discussions
- given our limited UX resources, this is less effort, and requires less
co-ordination, admin and maintenance
- we will continue to tag subject lines
- we can shrink our current tag from [USER EXPERIENCE DESIGN] to [UX]
- we can also add secondary tags to make the subject lines easier for
ooo-dev subscribes to scan and parse
- some examples:
[PROPOSAL][UX]
[UX][PLANNING]
[UX][RESEARCH]
[UX][DESIGN]
[UX][REQUEST FOR DESIGN FEEDBACK]
etc...
- we will try to make the tags simple, understandable and align with the
information architecture of our UX wiki, so it is obvious where information
comes from and where it needs to go
- we will try to standardize this tags, and publish this information to
allow people to create email rules
- we will iterate on this process and we move forward
- the UX community can identify resources to ensure that all UX related
threads are addressed, like a sub-moderator
- we'd request that the formal ooo-dev moderators keep us honest on this
activity ;)
- I volunteer to assume this responsibility moving forward
Thoughts? Feedback welcome.
In the interim, I will continue to update the AOO UX wiki, and start to
promote our open activities and seek volunteers.
Regards,
Kevin
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2012, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Kevin Grignon
> > > <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> Hello All,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to propose the creation of an
> > >> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
> > >>
> > >> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest
> in
> > the
> > >> UX community is growing.
> > >>
> > >
> > > From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> > > nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> > > ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> > > created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> > > communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> > > At least not yet.
> >
> > Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
>
>
> +1 Suggest subj title [USX] here for all topics within User Experience
> space.
>
>
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > >
> > > But we have other lists that have been successful. Some of the native
> > > language lists, for example have done quite well.
> > >
> > > So if you do go for a separate UX list, I'd highly recommend that you
> > > couple it with some outreach and recruitment plan that goes beyond the
> > > participants on the ooo-dev list. Maybe a blog post would help,
> > > something that we can promote via our other tools (social media,
> > > announcement list, etc.) to bring new interested parties to the new
> > > list.
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > >> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and
> > channel
> > >> our creative energy ;)
> > >>
> > >> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join
> > me.
> > >>
> > >> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
> > >> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Kevin
> > >>
> > >> AOO User Experience Designer
> >
> >
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Hello All,
Re: "[UX]" and "where then do we go from here?"
I've create a new AOO UX home page on the mediawiki:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
>From this page the UX community can start to self-organize and get to work!
To join the UX community, visit the new UX community member page:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersand
capture you information.
Please spread the word :)
Regards,
Kevin
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:
> You're already here- just start applying the [UX]
> tag to relevant Subject: headers.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 12:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
> >
> >
> > On 2012-05-17, at 07:47 , RGB ES wrote:
> >
> >> 2012/5/17 Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>:
> >>> FWIW, I meant what I said about promoting the
> >>> idea of a separate UX group here. Early efforts
> >>> to fork off subgroups are often failures at Apache,
> >>> and they don't need to be if you keep all the traffic
> >>> on the dev list. Using tags like [UX] in the subject
> >>> are a good way of getting a gauge for how much talking
> >>> needs to be done on-list about the topic. If it becomes
> >>> burdensome or distractive to discuss UX here, THEN ask
> >>> for a list.
> >>
> >> +1.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Ricardo
> > +1, too.
> >
> > So. Let's imagine that there are going to be, if not already, lots of +1s
> > and people who want to participate, at least a little, like me. (I ave
> ulterior
> > motives.) Where then do we go from here?
> >
> > Louis
> >
>
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:11:51 +0200
RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>:
> > On Fri, 18 May 2012 06:26:33 +0100
> > Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> >
> >> One aspect of the User Experience which frequently manifests itself for Users is a bad file save, leading to a corrupt file, which is partially or totally irrecoverable
> >
> > Sorry! My previous posting got away before I had completed it.
> >
> > In my programming days (some 25-30 years ago) it was de rigeur that the original file was never over-written until the new file had been completely saved, so that if there was a crash (app, OS, or power failure) the original file existed, perhaps as a .bak file, but there, untouched. This does not happen in OpenOffice (all forks as far as I know). Some thought needs to be given to this and to the defaults of the backup ("always create backup" to be on by default).
> >
> > Many of the instances of corrupt files are caused by User error (too quick shutdown before write buffers are flushed?); a part of the User Experience is to ensure against the stupidity of Users.
> >
>
> +1
>
> There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
> work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
> extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
> forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when
> they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to
> eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension?
Yes, Ricardo, I agree. That option should bbe the default and the switch to turn it off should be well hidden (but available to those who really need it). On the Forum we often get Users complaining that the OS cannot identify their file; diagnosis is almost always that the file has no extension (Windows is stupid about identifying file applications if no extension!).
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
RE: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I agree with Regina that deciding whether and how to add an extension automatically is a tricky case.
I also suspect that the dialog may be standard bits from the platform, at least in the case of Windows.
- Dennis
PS: For me, the crime was the Windows Shell coming with common extensions not shown by default. This just screws everybody up and it is also a threat opportunity.
-----Original Message-----
From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.henschel@t-online.de]
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 07:36
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Hi Ricardo,
RGB ES schrieb:
> 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell<of...@iol.ie>
[..]
> There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
> work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
> extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
> forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because
> when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we
> need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file
> extension?
There is no "correct" file extension for all cases. For example consider
text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not
remembered, but always starts with being checked.
Kind regards
Regina
>
> Regards Ricardo
>
RE: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by Hans Zybura <hz...@zybura.com>.
> From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.henschel@t-online.de]
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:33 PM
> RGB ES schrieb:
> > 2012/5/18 Regina Henschel<rb...@t-online.de>:
> >> Hi Ricardo,
> >>
> >> RGB ES schrieb:
> >>
> >>> 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell<of...@iol.ie>
> >>
> >> [..]
> >>
> >>> There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
> >>> work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
> >>> extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
> >>> forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because
> >>> when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we
> >>> need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file
> >>> extension?
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no "correct" file extension for all cases. For example
> >> consider text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check
> >> box is not remembered, but always starts with being checked.
Currently, this check box is indeed always checked when the "save as" dialog opens, with WinXP and Win7, at least.
That does not alter the fact, that for Windows users this checkbox is 1) totally useless 2) confusing and therefore producing unnecessary support cases.
1) From an UX perspective, a file without file name extension is broken.
2) An option that is not really optional is confusing. Confusion is the most counterproductive UX.
To add some more complexity, there are differences in behavior on WinXP versus Win7.
WinXP: In case of a new document, the default suggestion in the input field for the file name has no extension, i.e. it reads "Untitled 1". If you uncheck automatic extensions and then forget to manually add the correct extension, your file is saved without extension, which essentially means broken.
Win7: The default suggestion in the input field has the default extension for this file type added, i.e. it reads "Untitled 1.odt" with a new writer document. When the user unchecks automatic extensions before or after changing the name, the default extension is still there. Most users will only change the file name part and not delete the extension, I think. So the risk of getting a broken file is somewhat reduced on Win7.
By far most of OpenOffice users work with Windows. I really can't see a reason to stick with a counterproductive automatic extensions check box.
> >>
> >
> > You have a point here... ;)
> >
> > But this makes me think on the difference between "Save As" and
> > "Export": if you create a cvs file from a spreadsheet document I think
> > you are "exporting" it, not just "saving us" because you are losing
> > format and properties like formulas, etc.
> >
> > I think that those specially ambiguous file types belongs to "Export"
> > (which is now pretty empty), not to "Save / Save As". By reorganizing
> > "Export" and "Save / Save As" it is possible to let the file extension
> > option on the Export dialogue and erase it from "Save / Save As". Does
> > this make sense?
>
> Currently a filetype goes to "Save/ Save As", when an export _and_ an
> import filter exists. It does not distinguish whether something is lost.
> If you do not save to 'ODF1.2 extended' always something is lost.
>
> I remember there had been a similar discussion on OOo, and especially
> saving to .doc had been controversial. And also the discussion about this
> check box is not new and as far as I remember the removal of that check box
> has been rejected. But I would need to search for those discussions.
>
> Kind regards
> Regina
Kind regards, Hans
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>.
RGB ES schrieb:
> 2012/5/18 Regina Henschel<rb...@t-online.de>:
>> Hi Ricardo,
>>
>> RGB ES schrieb:
>>
>>> 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell<of...@iol.ie>
>>
>> [..]
>>
>>> There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
>>> work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
>>> extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
>>> forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because
>>> when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we
>>> need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file
>>> extension?
>>
>>
>> There is no "correct" file extension for all cases. For example consider
>> text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not
>> remembered, but always starts with being checked.
>>
>
> You have a point here... ;)
>
> But this makes me think on the difference between "Save As" and
> "Export": if you create a cvs file from a spreadsheet document I think
> you are "exporting" it, not just "saving us" because you are losing
> format and properties like formulas, etc.
>
> I think that those specially ambiguous file types belongs to "Export"
> (which is now pretty empty), not to "Save / Save As". By reorganizing
> "Export" and "Save / Save As" it is possible to let the file extension
> option on the Export dialogue and erase it from "Save / Save As". Does
> this make sense?
Currently a filetype goes to "Save/ Save As", when an export _and_ an
import filter exists. It does not distinguish whether something is lost.
If you do not save to 'ODF1.2 extended' always something is lost.
I remember there had been a similar discussion on OOo, and especially
saving to .doc had been controversial. And also the discussion about
this check box is not new and as far as I remember the removal of that
check box has been rejected. But I would need to search for those
discussions.
Kind regards
Regina
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2012/5/18 Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>:
> Hi Ricardo,
>
> RGB ES schrieb:
>
>> 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell<of...@iol.ie>
>
> [..]
>
>> There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
>> work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
>> extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
>> forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because
>> when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we
>> need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file
>> extension?
>
>
> There is no "correct" file extension for all cases. For example consider
> text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not
> remembered, but always starts with being checked.
>
You have a point here... ;)
But this makes me think on the difference between "Save As" and
"Export": if you create a cvs file from a spreadsheet document I think
you are "exporting" it, not just "saving us" because you are losing
format and properties like formulas, etc.
I think that those specially ambiguous file types belongs to "Export"
(which is now pretty empty), not to "Save / Save As". By reorganizing
"Export" and "Save / Save As" it is possible to let the file extension
option on the Export dialogue and erase it from "Save / Save As". Does
this make sense?
Regards
Ricardo
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>.
Hi Ricardo,
RGB ES schrieb:
> 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell<of...@iol.ie>
[..]
> There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
> work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
> extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
> forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because
> when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we
> need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file
> extension?
There is no "correct" file extension for all cases. For example consider
text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not
remembered, but always starts with being checked.
Kind regards
Regina
>
> Regards Ricardo
>
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>:
> On Fri, 18 May 2012 06:26:33 +0100
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
>
>> One aspect of the User Experience which frequently manifests itself for Users is a bad file save, leading to a corrupt file, which is partially or totally irrecoverable
>
> Sorry! My previous posting got away before I had completed it.
>
> In my programming days (some 25-30 years ago) it was de rigeur that the original file was never over-written until the new file had been completely saved, so that if there was a crash (app, OS, or power failure) the original file existed, perhaps as a .bak file, but there, untouched. This does not happen in OpenOffice (all forks as far as I know). Some thought needs to be given to this and to the defaults of the backup ("always create backup" to be on by default).
>
> Many of the instances of corrupt files are caused by User error (too quick shutdown before write buffers are flushed?); a part of the User Experience is to ensure against the stupidity of Users.
>
+1
There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file
work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the "add file
extension" on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the
forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when
they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to
eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension?
Regards
Ricardo
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Fri, 18 May 2012 06:26:33 +0100
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> One aspect of the User Experience which frequently manifests itself for Users is a bad file save, leading to a corrupt file, which is partially or totally irrecoverable
Sorry! My previous posting got away before I had completed it.
In my programming days (some 25-30 years ago) it was de rigeur that the original file was never over-written until the new file had been completely saved, so that if there was a crash (app, OS, or power failure) the original file existed, perhaps as a .bak file, but there, untouched. This does not happen in OpenOffice (all forks as far as I know). Some thought needs to be given to this and to the defaults of the backup ("always create backup" to be on by default).
Many of the instances of corrupt files are caused by User error (too quick shutdown before write buffers are flushed?); a part of the User Experience is to ensure against the stupidity of Users.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
[UX] The Save Process
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
One aspect of the User Experience which frequently manifests itself for Users is a bad file save, leading to a corrupt file, which is partially or totally irrecoverable
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
You're already here- just start applying the [UX]
tag to relevant Subject: headers.
----- Original Message -----
> From: Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 12:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
>
>
> On 2012-05-17, at 07:47 , RGB ES wrote:
>
>> 2012/5/17 Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>:
>>> FWIW, I meant what I said about promoting the
>>> idea of a separate UX group here. Early efforts
>>> to fork off subgroups are often failures at Apache,
>>> and they don't need to be if you keep all the traffic
>>> on the dev list. Using tags like [UX] in the subject
>>> are a good way of getting a gauge for how much talking
>>> needs to be done on-list about the topic. If it becomes
>>> burdensome or distractive to discuss UX here, THEN ask
>>> for a list.
>>
>> +1.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ricardo
> +1, too.
>
> So. Let's imagine that there are going to be, if not already, lots of +1s
> and people who want to participate, at least a little, like me. (I ave ulterior
> motives.) Where then do we go from here?
>
> Louis
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <lu...@gmail.com>.
On 2012-05-17, at 07:47 , RGB ES wrote:
> 2012/5/17 Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>:
>> FWIW, I meant what I said about promoting the
>> idea of a separate UX group here. Early efforts
>> to fork off subgroups are often failures at Apache,
>> and they don't need to be if you keep all the traffic
>> on the dev list. Using tags like [UX] in the subject
>> are a good way of getting a gauge for how much talking
>> needs to be done on-list about the topic. If it becomes
>> burdensome or distractive to discuss UX here, THEN ask
>> for a list.
>
> +1.
>
> Regards
> Ricardo
+1, too.
So. Let's imagine that there are going to be, if not already, lots of +1s and people who want to participate, at least a little, like me. (I ave ulterior motives.) Where then do we go from here?
Louis
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2012/5/17 Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>:
> FWIW, I meant what I said about promoting the
> idea of a separate UX group here. Early efforts
> to fork off subgroups are often failures at Apache,
> and they don't need to be if you keep all the traffic
> on the dev list. Using tags like [UX] in the subject
> are a good way of getting a gauge for how much talking
> needs to be done on-list about the topic. If it becomes
> burdensome or distractive to discuss UX here, THEN ask
> for a list.
+1.
Regards
Ricardo
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
FWIW, I meant what I said about promoting the
idea of a separate UX group here. Early efforts
to fork off subgroups are often failures at Apache,
and they don't need to be if you keep all the traffic
on the dev list. Using tags like [UX] in the subject
are a good way of getting a gauge for how much talking
needs to be done on-list about the topic. If it becomes
burdensome or distractive to discuss UX here, THEN ask
for a list.
HTH
>________________________________
> From: Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 7:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
>
>2012/5/16 Xin Li <lx...@gmail.com>
>
>> +1. count me in
>> I think it will be helpful for the ux issue discussion if we have a ooo-ux
>> list or some other space for ux.
>>
>>
>Just for the records: In my view, UX is lot more than the software itself.
>It has to do with how users get answers to their questions and doubts also.
>And this has less to do with documentation than the easy access to it and
>all information about the software and the community communication
>channels. So, UX has to overview all those activities and make suggestions
>on how to improve them all.
>
>Regards
>
>--
>Paulo de Souza Lima
>http://almalivre.wordpress.com
>Curitiba - PR
>Linux User #432358
>Ubuntu User #28729
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>.
2012/5/16 Xin Li <lx...@gmail.com>
> +1. count me in
> I think it will be helpful for the ux issue discussion if we have a ooo-ux
> list or some other space for ux.
>
>
Just for the records: In my view, UX is lot more than the software itself.
It has to do with how users get answers to their questions and doubts also.
And this has less to do with documentation than the easy access to it and
all information about the software and the community communication
channels. So, UX has to overview all those activities and make suggestions
on how to improve them all.
Regards
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Xin Li <lx...@gmail.com>.
+1. count me in
I think it will be helpful for the ux issue discussion if we have a ooo-ux
list or some other space for ux.
2012/5/17 Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2012, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Kevin Grignon
> > > <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> Hello All,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to propose the creation of an
> > >> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
> > >>
> > >> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest
> in
> > the
> > >> UX community is growing.
> > >>
> > >
> > > From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> > > nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> > > ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> > > created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> > > communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> > > At least not yet.
> >
> > Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
>
>
> +1 Suggest subj title [USX] here for all topics within User Experience
> space.
>
>
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > >
> > > But we have other lists that have been successful. Some of the native
> > > language lists, for example have done quite well.
> > >
> > > So if you do go for a separate UX list, I'd highly recommend that you
> > > couple it with some outreach and recruitment plan that goes beyond the
> > > participants on the ooo-dev list. Maybe a blog post would help,
> > > something that we can promote via our other tools (social media,
> > > announcement list, etc.) to bring new interested parties to the new
> > > list.
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > >> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and
> > channel
> > >> our creative energy ;)
> > >>
> > >> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join
> > me.
> > >>
> > >> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
> > >> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Kevin
> > >>
> > >> AOO User Experience Designer
> >
> >
>
--
Best regards,
Xin Li 李欣
UX designer
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
On Wednesday, May 16, 2012, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
>
> On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Kevin Grignon
> > <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> Hello All,
> >>
> >> I would like to propose the creation of an
> >> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
> >>
> >> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in
> the
> >> UX community is growing.
> >>
> >
> > From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> > nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> > ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> > created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> > communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> > At least not yet.
>
> Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
+1 Suggest subj title [USX] here for all topics within User Experience
space.
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> > But we have other lists that have been successful. Some of the native
> > language lists, for example have done quite well.
> >
> > So if you do go for a separate UX list, I'd highly recommend that you
> > couple it with some outreach and recruitment plan that goes beyond the
> > participants on the ooo-dev list. Maybe a blog post would help,
> > something that we can promote via our other tools (social media,
> > announcement list, etc.) to bring new interested parties to the new
> > list.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and
> channel
> >> our creative energy ;)
> >>
> >> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join
> me.
> >>
> >> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
> >> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Kevin
> >>
> >> AOO User Experience Designer
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Kevin Grignon
> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I would like to propose the creation of an
>> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
>>
>> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in the
>> UX community is growing.
>>
>
> From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
> nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
> ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
> created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
> communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
> At least not yet.
Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested.
Regards,
Dave
>
> But we have other lists that have been successful. Some of the native
> language lists, for example have done quite well.
>
> So if you do go for a separate UX list, I'd highly recommend that you
> couple it with some outreach and recruitment plan that goes beyond the
> participants on the ooo-dev list. Maybe a blog post would help,
> something that we can promote via our other tools (social media,
> announcement list, etc.) to bring new interested parties to the new
> list.
>
> -Rob
>
>> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and channel
>> our creative energy ;)
>>
>> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join me.
>>
>> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
>> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin
>>
>> AOO User Experience Designer
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Kevin Grignon
<ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I would like to propose the creation of an
> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
>
> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in the
> UX community is growing.
>
>From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does
nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the
ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were
created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not
communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation.
At least not yet.
But we have other lists that have been successful. Some of the native
language lists, for example have done quite well.
So if you do go for a separate UX list, I'd highly recommend that you
couple it with some outreach and recruitment plan that goes beyond the
participants on the ooo-dev list. Maybe a blog post would help,
something that we can promote via our other tools (social media,
announcement list, etc.) to bring new interested parties to the new
list.
-Rob
> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and channel
> our creative energy ;)
>
> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join me.
>
> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> AOO User Experience Designer
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Posted by Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>.
2012/5/16 Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
> Hello All,
>
> I would like to propose the creation of an
> ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list.
>
> The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in the
> UX community is growing.
>
> It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and channel
> our creative energy ;)
>
> I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join me.
>
I'm not sure if I am eligible to be a moderator, but if I am, I would be
happy to contribute on it.
>
> I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience
> leading, managing and delivering user experience projects.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> AOO User Experience Designer
>
Regards.
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729