You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by Gary Aitken <ah...@dreamchaser.org> on 2012/12/10 07:03:59 UTC
Text flow questions
Hi all,
I've attached an odt file derived from something I was working on that is driving
me nuts as far as text flow is concerned. I don't understand how anchoring
affects text flow, or why in some cases text does not fill up a hole on the page.
If someone can point me to a detailed explanation of how the filling works I
would appreciate it.
Questions regarding the attached document:
1. If Frame3 is moved to the right so there is whitespace between it and Frame4,
the text begins on a line even with the top of Frame3 and Frame4, and fills the
whitespace between the two frames and the space immediately below Frame4.
However, as it stands with Frame3 overlapping Frame4, it does not fill the space
immediately below Frame4. Why not?
2. Why is paragraph 3 forced to page 2? Why doesn't it start in the empty
space to the left of Frame5?
If paragraph 2 is shortened by one line, Frame5 shifts up and paragraph three
begins in the whitespace between Frame5 and Frame9. If paragraph 2 is
shortened 3 more lines, Frame5 shifts up further and paragraph 3 moves
up and begins in the space to the right between Frame5 and Frame7. Shorten by
another 4 lines, to the point where the top of Frame5 is slightly above the
bottom of Frame2, and the text finally begins to use the whitespace to the
left of Frame5. Why didn't paragraph 3 us the space to the left of Frame5
in the first place?
3. Why doesn't paragraph 3 start in the empty space below Frame9? This
may be the same as the last part of #2, but originally there was another box
in the lower left corner of the page, and I wanted the text to begin in the
space between it and Frame8, immediately below Frame9.
4. Frame10 is anchored to paragraph4. If I move it up slightly, the anchor symbol shifts to paragraph3. Why doesn't it stay anchored to its original paragraph?
5. If I move Frame10 up to where its anchor shifts to paragraph 3 and release
the mouse, the frame jumps up to page 1, and its anchor point shifts to the
left margin below paragraph 2. Why doesn't it stay anchored to paragraph
3, and why doesn't it stay where I dropped it?
I would be much appreciative of any pointers to explanations of why this
works the way it does. "It's a bug," is also a valid answer, although any
explanations which would help me to work around bugs would also be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Gary
Re: Text flow questions
Posted by Gary Aitken <op...@dreamchaser.org>.
(resend to get the subject right, sorry for the duplication)
Thank you!
That helps a lot, and I can modify the wrapping options to work for this document.
However, I am puzzled because of the following:
>> 1. If Frame3 is moved to the right so there is whitespace between it and Frame4,
>> the text begins on a line even with the top of Frame3 and Frame4, and fills the
>> whitespace between the two frames and the space immediately below Frame4.
>> However, as it stands with Frame3 overlapping Frame4, it does not fill the space
>> immediately below Frame4. Why not?
> Wrapping Optimal for Frame3 doesn't allow text to the left of the Frame
> If you change the wrapping for Frame3 from Optimal to Parallel you will see that it >fill the gaps.
If I change Frame3 to use "Before" wrapping, and leave Frame4 at "Optimal",
it does not fill in the space under Frame4. I can get that space to fill by
changing Frame4 to use "None". But why doesn't option "After" or "Optimal"
or "Parallel" also work for Frame4? Just because it can't fill anything to
the right because it is physically blocked by the box on the right (that is
different from the box on the right forbidding text to its left) doesn't mean
it should refuse to use the rest of the space which is actually available.
Indeed, the "Parallel" option fills the space to the left of Frame4, but not
the space below, even if Frame3 is set to "Before". If Frame3 is set to
"Before" and Frame4 is set to "Parallel", why does it fill the space to the
left of Frame4 but not the space below it? In this case all three frames
say it is ok to put text below Frame4, and Frame2 and Frame4 say it is ok to
put text to the left of Frame4, and in both cases Frame4 cannot put text to
its right because Frame3 is in the way. But it puts text to the left and
not below.
As you describe it for Frame3, "Optimal" is behaving the same as "After",
allowing no text to its left. How is "Optimal" different from "After"?
According to the 3.3 documents "Optimal" only prevents text to its side
if there is less than 2cm available space, and in this case there is more
than that.
>> 3. Why doesn't paragraph 3 start in the empty space below Frame9? This
>> may be the same as the last part of #2, but originally there was another box
>> in the lower left corner of the page, and I wanted the text to begin in the
>> space between it and Frame8, immediately below Frame9.
> Frame8 prevent text on the left (Optimal wrapping)
Again, just because it can't fill on the right because it's physically blocked
doesn't mean it should not use the rest of the space it is allowed to use. In
general, wrapping should use all of the space it is allowed to use, unless some
other object specifically prevents it from doing so. Again, what is the
difference between "Optimal" and "After" if it's not the 2cm rule?
Given the pictures of wrapping options in the Frame/Wrap dialog and the
descriptions of the wrap options in the documentation, what are the rules to
determine whether or not a space is filled? Which of the following statements
(if any) are true:
1. In order to fill a space, the wrap options of all surrounding frames
must specifically allow text in the space.
2. In order to fill a space, the wrap option of any one of the surrounding
frames must specifically allow text in the space.
3. Something else??
Again, I can now see how to get what I want in any particular document by
trying different wrap options, but it is not at all clear to me what the
algorithm is. Is is also not clear to me what the difference between the
"After" and "Optimal" options are, since the 2cm rule is not being applied.
>> 5. If I move Frame10 up to where its anchor shifts to paragraph 3 and release
>> the mouse, the frame jumps up to page 1, and its anchor point shifts to the
>> left margin below paragraph 2. Why doesn't it stay anchored to paragraph
>> 3, and why doesn't it stay where I dropped it?
> You should check values in the Frame window when you move Frames, this way you
> can see what the impact is.
Thanks.
> In general: if you want the position of your Frames fixed anchor them to Page
> while setting the position From left to Entire page or Page text area and From
> Top to to Entire page or Page text area.
> If you want them to flow with the paragraph anchor them to the paragraph or
> character.
> Because you have mixed settings for different Frames you got unpredictable
> results.
But there is only one frame of interest here,
and it is being anchored to one of two paragraphs,
both of which are on the same page, page2.
There is nothing else on page2.
If I set Frame10's "Position" on the "Type" tab to:
Horizontal, 3" from Left Paragraph Area
Vertical 0.25" from Top of Paragraph text area
It positions correctly, relative to it's anchor in paragraph 4
If I drag it to where the anchor first indicates paragraph 3,
the top of the frame is about 2cm below the top margin of page 2,
and paragraph 3 is still starting at the top of page 2.
If I release the mouse there,
Frame10 jumps into the previous page (page 1)
and is positioned at the very bottom of the page.
At this point its anchor is shown to be at the bottom of paragraph two,
not at the top of paragraph three;
and its position is now reported as:
Horizontal, 3" from Left Paragraph Area (correct)
Vertical 2.32" from Top of Margin (totally wrong)
Why did the vertical reference change?
Why did it not stay at 0.25" from paragraph text area,
and re-anchor to paragraph 3?
It appears impossible to anchor it to paragraph 3.
If one claims the text on page1 is wrapping the way it is supposed to,
then it should be possible to anchor Frame10 to paragraph 3 on page2.
If it is anchoring in the wrong place because of using different kinds of
frame anchoring and frame text flow options on page 1,
then something is wrong with the way the anchoring and text flow is behaving,
since in principle one should be able to use arbitrary anchoring and
arbitrary text flow options for each frame;
that's why you are allowed to set them on a per-frame basis.
I think there is a bug in the behavior somewhere,
but it's not clear to me exactly what it is.
I think there is something wrong with the way text wrap "Optimal" is working,
since it is not obeying the 2cm rule;
but there is probably also something else wrong which is causing
the Frame10 anchoring problem.
Thanks for any further clarification.
Gary
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Text flow questions
Posted by Gary Aitken <ah...@dreamchaser.org>.
On 12/10/12 12:47, Don wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I am using OOo3.3.0.
>
> I can highlight each of your frames then go to Format>Wrap>Page Wrap, which will allow me to move that frame anywhere on the page with the text wrapping around it. This must be done for each frame.
Interesting.
Thanks, that's a bit of a help.
Unfortunately I had cut my real problem down to make a test case,
and that doesn't solve the problem there.
I've attached a version with an additional frame, Frame11.
Even using the Format/Wrap/PageWrap you describe,
I cannot get the text to fill in the space below Frame9 and between Frame11
and Frame8. It will fill in to the left of Frame5, and to the right of
Frame6, but not the rest.
Any ideas what's going on in questions #4 and #5 below?
Thanks!
> On 12/10/2012 1:03 AM, Gary Aitken wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've attached an odt file derived from something I was working on that is driving
>> me nuts as far as text flow is concerned. I don't understand how anchoring
>> affects text flow, or why in some cases text does not fill up a hole on the page.
>>
>> If someone can point me to a detailed explanation of how the filling works I
>> would appreciate it.
>>
>> Questions regarding the attached document:
>>
>> 1. If Frame3 is moved to the right so there is whitespace between it and Frame4,
>> the text begins on a line even with the top of Frame3 and Frame4, and fills the
>> whitespace between the two frames and the space immediately below Frame4.
>> However, as it stands with Frame3 overlapping Frame4, it does not fill the space
>> immediately below Frame4. Why not?
>>
>> 2. Why is paragraph 3 forced to page 2? Why doesn't it start in the empty
>> space to the left of Frame5?
>>
>> If paragraph 2 is shortened by one line, Frame5 shifts up and paragraph three
>> begins in the whitespace between Frame5 and Frame9. If paragraph 2 is
>> shortened 3 more lines, Frame5 shifts up further and paragraph 3 moves
>> up and begins in the space to the right between Frame5 and Frame7. Shorten by
>> another 4 lines, to the point where the top of Frame5 is slightly above the
>> bottom of Frame2, and the text finally begins to use the whitespace to the
>> left of Frame5. Why didn't paragraph 3 us the space to the left of Frame5
>> in the first place?
>>
>> 3. Why doesn't paragraph 3 start in the empty space below Frame9? This
>> may be the same as the last part of #2, but originally there was another box
>> in the lower left corner of the page, and I wanted the text to begin in the
>> space between it and Frame8, immediately below Frame9.
>>
>> 4. Frame10 is anchored to paragraph4. If I move it up slightly, the anchor
>> symbol shifts to paragraph3. Why doesn't it stay anchored to its original
>> paragraph?
>>
>> 5. If I move Frame10 up to where its anchor shifts to paragraph 3 and release
>> the mouse, the frame jumps up to page 1, and its anchor point shifts to the
>> left margin below paragraph 2. Why doesn't it stay anchored to paragraph
>> 3, and why doesn't it stay where I dropped it?
>>
>> I would be much appreciative of any pointers to explanations of why this
>> works the way it does. "It's a bug," is also a valid answer, although any
>> explanations which would help me to work around bugs would also be appreciated.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Text flow questions
Posted by Don <do...@msn.com>.
Gary,
I am using OOo3.3.0.
I can highlight each of your frames then go to Format>Wrap>Page Wrap,
which will allow me to move that frame anywhere on the page with the
text wrapping around it. This must be done for each frame.
Hope this helps.
Don
On 12/10/2012 1:03 AM, Gary Aitken wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've attached an odt file derived from something I was working on that is driving
> me nuts as far as text flow is concerned. I don't understand how anchoring
> affects text flow, or why in some cases text does not fill up a hole on the page.
>
> If someone can point me to a detailed explanation of how the filling works I
> would appreciate it.
>
> Questions regarding the attached document:
>
> 1. If Frame3 is moved to the right so there is whitespace between it and Frame4,
> the text begins on a line even with the top of Frame3 and Frame4, and fills the
> whitespace between the two frames and the space immediately below Frame4.
> However, as it stands with Frame3 overlapping Frame4, it does not fill the space
> immediately below Frame4. Why not?
>
> 2. Why is paragraph 3 forced to page 2? Why doesn't it start in the empty
> space to the left of Frame5?
>
> If paragraph 2 is shortened by one line, Frame5 shifts up and paragraph three
> begins in the whitespace between Frame5 and Frame9. If paragraph 2 is
> shortened 3 more lines, Frame5 shifts up further and paragraph 3 moves
> up and begins in the space to the right between Frame5 and Frame7. Shorten by
> another 4 lines, to the point where the top of Frame5 is slightly above the
> bottom of Frame2, and the text finally begins to use the whitespace to the
> left of Frame5. Why didn't paragraph 3 us the space to the left of Frame5
> in the first place?
>
> 3. Why doesn't paragraph 3 start in the empty space below Frame9? This
> may be the same as the last part of #2, but originally there was another box
> in the lower left corner of the page, and I wanted the text to begin in the
> space between it and Frame8, immediately below Frame9.
>
> 4. Frame10 is anchored to paragraph4. If I move it up slightly, the anchor symbol shifts to paragraph3. Why doesn't it stay anchored to its original paragraph?
>
> 5. If I move Frame10 up to where its anchor shifts to paragraph 3 and release
> the mouse, the frame jumps up to page 1, and its anchor point shifts to the
> left margin below paragraph 2. Why doesn't it stay anchored to paragraph
> 3, and why doesn't it stay where I dropped it?
>
> I would be much appreciative of any pointers to explanations of why this
> works the way it does. "It's a bug," is also a valid answer, although any
> explanations which would help me to work around bugs would also be appreciated.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Gary
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org