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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com> on 2010/06/28 23:31:35 UTC
[Discussion] Tapestry 5 documentation reference
Hi,
I would like to contribute to the great documentation effort started by
Ulrich and Robin as designer. I have seen all the work done to migrate the
existing documentation to confluence and macro to identify deprecated
documentation.
Will the documentation continue to be generated from xdoc and apt files, or
will it be fully maintained via confluence ?
Actually this WE, i have started to think on what should be the plan for a
reference guide and how to organize chapters. We have a lot of starters for
new comers but in my opinion with User guides, we miss to many existing and
interesting informations because of the lack of a structured TOC.
This thought has lead me to this simple (and sorry if it sounds stupid)
question : What is Tapestry 5 ?
In fact, tapestry-core corresponds to the module we use to build Web
applications, then 'core' Tapestry is Web application development. After
that i made a quick overview of modules present on trunk to get familiar
with fresh developments, here is the list :
we have the most popular and most used :
- tapestry-ioc
- tapestry-spring
- tapestry-upload
- tapestry-hibernate and hibernate-core
- tapestry-test
but also
- tapestry-func
- tapestry-beanvalidator
- tapestry-jmx
- tapestry-webflow
+ all the existing third party libraries...
My conclusion is that Tapestry is really so much more than a Web Framework
and the IOC is central.
So to design the plan,
Should i address IOC first and then talk about web application development
as any other part of the documentation ?
or
Should i emphasize on the Web development and make it central, and give a
plan for every contribution ?
Anyway i would be pleased to contribute to the documentation effort for my
first contribution as committer, so suggestions are very welcome.
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-Creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: [Discussion] Tapestry 5 documentation reference
Posted by Kalle Korhonen <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:31:35 -0300, Christophe Cordenier
> <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My conclusion is that Tapestry is really so much more than a Web Framework
>> and the IOC is central.
> Agreed. But, when you say Tapestry, the first idea that comes to the mind of
> almost anyone is the web framework, so we should be careful about that and
> be very emphatic about Tapestry-IoC not being dependent on Tapestry-core.
> I've seen at least one person doing this mistake.
You might be buying Ferrari because it has the greatest engine, but
still, the car salesman is not selling you the engine, he's selling
you the flawless car; the whole package. The user guide needs to be
the same thing for developers as the web application is to the end
users. It needs to be easily approachable and easily show you what you
can do with it, not explain the technical merits of the engine, err..
IoC framework. While Tapestry may have a decent IoC framework, it's
developing web applications that people are using it for.
Kalle
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Re: [Discussion] Tapestry 5 documentation reference
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:31:35 -0300, Christophe Cordenier
<ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
Hi!
> Will the documentation continue to be generated from xdoc and apt files,
> or will it be fully maintained via confluence ?
I don't know, but I guess the Confluence option would be the better one.
> Actually this WE, i have started to think on what should be the plan for
> a reference guide and how to organize chapters. We have a lot of
> starters for new comers but in my opinion with User guides, we miss to
> many existing and interesting informations because of the lack of a
> structured TOC.
Nice!
> This thought has lead me to this simple (and sorry if it sounds stupid)
> question : What is Tapestry 5 ?
> In fact, tapestry-core corresponds to the module we use to build Web
> applications, then 'core' Tapestry is Web application development. After
> that i made a quick overview of modules present on trunk to get familiar
> with fresh developments, here is the list :
I think that the documentation should have two main entry points: one for
tapestry-core, another for tapestry-ioc. Under tapestry-ioc would be found
the documentation for tapestry-upload, tapestry-beanvalidator and
tapestry-webflow, i.e, anything that is related directly to web
development. Everything else would be part of the documentation of
Tapestry-IoC, including pointers to third-party packages.
> My conclusion is that Tapestry is really so much more than a Web
> Framework and the IOC is central.
Agreed. But, when you say Tapestry, the first idea that comes to the mind
of almost anyone is the web framework, so we should be careful about that
and be very emphatic about Tapestry-IoC not being dependent on
Tapestry-core. I've seen at least one person doing this mistake.
> Should i address IOC first and then talk about web application
> development as any other part of the documentation ?
I don't think so, for the reasons I stated above.
> Should i emphasize on the Web development and make it central, and give a
> plan for every contribution ?
I think we could keep Web development as central, but raise the visibility
of Tapestry-IoC inside the documentation. For example, in the first page,
give a description of tapestry-core first and then talk about tapestry-ioc.
> Anyway i would be pleased to contribute to the documentation effort for
> my first contribution as committer, so suggestions are very welcome.
Cool! :)
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: [Discussion] Tapestry 5 documentation reference
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
Actually, I almost agree with all the thoughts here, especially about
defining Web application development as central, but i have another question
: What is a reference guide ?
In my humble opinion, it should not stand for a user guide, or articles, or
community wikis and so on... It's all about referencing the API in a human
readable format, i.e. 'How to implement a AppModule class?' we have the
ServiceBinder, build, contribute, decorate, advise methods, symbols,
@SubModule, services overrides... This will not be 'How to override the
ApplicationState service so i can benefit from my companies SSO system ?' or
anything else
This is why i think that getting started with tapestry-ioc is maybe more
natural for a technical documentation as it is the heart and soul of
Tapestry.
2010/6/29 Tom van Dijk <to...@tvandijk.nl>
> Actually, I'm still busy learning Tapestry and I started with the IoC. Why
> should it not be a starting point? I think it's essential to understand that
> piece first.
>
>
> Igor Drobiazko schreef:
>
> First of all Tapestry is a web framework and that is the reason why
>> developers start using it.Tapestry IoC is the heart and sole of Tapestry
>> but
>> it should not be the starting point for beginners. Tapestry IoC is not the
>> reason why developer start using Tapestry. In most cases they even do not
>> know about IoC concepts but relealize the strength during learning.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Christophe Cordenier <
>> christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like to contribute to the great documentation effort started by
>>> Ulrich and Robin as designer. I have seen all the work done to migrate
>>> the
>>> existing documentation to confluence and macro to identify deprecated
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> Will the documentation continue to be generated from xdoc and apt files,
>>> or
>>> will it be fully maintained via confluence ?
>>>
>>> Actually this WE, i have started to think on what should be the plan for
>>> a
>>> reference guide and how to organize chapters. We have a lot of starters
>>> for
>>> new comers but in my opinion with User guides, we miss to many existing
>>> and
>>> interesting informations because of the lack of a structured TOC.
>>>
>>> This thought has lead me to this simple (and sorry if it sounds stupid)
>>> question : What is Tapestry 5 ?
>>>
>>> In fact, tapestry-core corresponds to the module we use to build Web
>>> applications, then 'core' Tapestry is Web application development. After
>>> that i made a quick overview of modules present on trunk to get familiar
>>> with fresh developments, here is the list :
>>>
>>> we have the most popular and most used :
>>> - tapestry-ioc
>>> - tapestry-spring
>>> - tapestry-upload
>>> - tapestry-hibernate and hibernate-core
>>> - tapestry-test
>>>
>>> but also
>>>
>>> - tapestry-func
>>> - tapestry-beanvalidator
>>> - tapestry-jmx
>>> - tapestry-webflow
>>>
>>> + all the existing third party libraries...
>>>
>>> My conclusion is that Tapestry is really so much more than a Web
>>> Framework
>>> and the IOC is central.
>>>
>>> So to design the plan,
>>>
>>> Should i address IOC first and then talk about web application
>>> development
>>> as any other part of the documentation ?
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> Should i emphasize on the Web development and make it central, and give a
>>> plan for every contribution ?
>>>
>>> Anyway i would be pleased to contribute to the documentation effort for
>>> my
>>> first contribution as committer, so suggestions are very welcome.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Christophe Cordenier.
>>>
>>> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
>>> Co-Creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
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>
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Developer of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: [Discussion] Tapestry 5 documentation reference
Posted by Tom van Dijk <to...@tvandijk.nl>.
Actually, I'm still busy learning Tapestry and I started with the IoC.
Why should it not be a starting point? I think it's essential to
understand that piece first.
Igor Drobiazko schreef:
> First of all Tapestry is a web framework and that is the reason why
> developers start using it.Tapestry IoC is the heart and sole of Tapestry but
> it should not be the starting point for beginners. Tapestry IoC is not the
> reason why developer start using Tapestry. In most cases they even do not
> know about IoC concepts but relealize the strength during learning.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Christophe Cordenier <
> christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to contribute to the great documentation effort started by
>> Ulrich and Robin as designer. I have seen all the work done to migrate the
>> existing documentation to confluence and macro to identify deprecated
>> documentation.
>>
>> Will the documentation continue to be generated from xdoc and apt files, or
>> will it be fully maintained via confluence ?
>>
>> Actually this WE, i have started to think on what should be the plan for a
>> reference guide and how to organize chapters. We have a lot of starters for
>> new comers but in my opinion with User guides, we miss to many existing and
>> interesting informations because of the lack of a structured TOC.
>>
>> This thought has lead me to this simple (and sorry if it sounds stupid)
>> question : What is Tapestry 5 ?
>>
>> In fact, tapestry-core corresponds to the module we use to build Web
>> applications, then 'core' Tapestry is Web application development. After
>> that i made a quick overview of modules present on trunk to get familiar
>> with fresh developments, here is the list :
>>
>> we have the most popular and most used :
>> - tapestry-ioc
>> - tapestry-spring
>> - tapestry-upload
>> - tapestry-hibernate and hibernate-core
>> - tapestry-test
>>
>> but also
>>
>> - tapestry-func
>> - tapestry-beanvalidator
>> - tapestry-jmx
>> - tapestry-webflow
>>
>> + all the existing third party libraries...
>>
>> My conclusion is that Tapestry is really so much more than a Web Framework
>> and the IOC is central.
>>
>> So to design the plan,
>>
>> Should i address IOC first and then talk about web application development
>> as any other part of the documentation ?
>>
>> or
>>
>> Should i emphasize on the Web development and make it central, and give a
>> plan for every contribution ?
>>
>> Anyway i would be pleased to contribute to the documentation effort for my
>> first contribution as committer, so suggestions are very welcome.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Christophe Cordenier.
>>
>> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
>> Co-Creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Discussion] Tapestry 5 documentation reference
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
First of all Tapestry is a web framework and that is the reason why
developers start using it.Tapestry IoC is the heart and sole of Tapestry but
it should not be the starting point for beginners. Tapestry IoC is not the
reason why developer start using Tapestry. In most cases they even do not
know about IoC concepts but relealize the strength during learning.
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Christophe Cordenier <
christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to contribute to the great documentation effort started by
> Ulrich and Robin as designer. I have seen all the work done to migrate the
> existing documentation to confluence and macro to identify deprecated
> documentation.
>
> Will the documentation continue to be generated from xdoc and apt files, or
> will it be fully maintained via confluence ?
>
> Actually this WE, i have started to think on what should be the plan for a
> reference guide and how to organize chapters. We have a lot of starters for
> new comers but in my opinion with User guides, we miss to many existing and
> interesting informations because of the lack of a structured TOC.
>
> This thought has lead me to this simple (and sorry if it sounds stupid)
> question : What is Tapestry 5 ?
>
> In fact, tapestry-core corresponds to the module we use to build Web
> applications, then 'core' Tapestry is Web application development. After
> that i made a quick overview of modules present on trunk to get familiar
> with fresh developments, here is the list :
>
> we have the most popular and most used :
> - tapestry-ioc
> - tapestry-spring
> - tapestry-upload
> - tapestry-hibernate and hibernate-core
> - tapestry-test
>
> but also
>
> - tapestry-func
> - tapestry-beanvalidator
> - tapestry-jmx
> - tapestry-webflow
>
> + all the existing third party libraries...
>
> My conclusion is that Tapestry is really so much more than a Web Framework
> and the IOC is central.
>
> So to design the plan,
>
> Should i address IOC first and then talk about web application development
> as any other part of the documentation ?
>
> or
>
> Should i emphasize on the Web development and make it central, and give a
> plan for every contribution ?
>
> Anyway i would be pleased to contribute to the documentation effort for my
> first contribution as committer, so suggestions are very welcome.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-Creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de