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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Brad O'Hearne <br...@neurofire.com> on 2006/02/24 08:47:19 UTC
why use mod_jk?
After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd just wipe
my mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can proxy
requests using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk as an
integration technique between httpd and tomcat, if integration is *not*
in-process, which I understand is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
Brad
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Mladen Turk <ml...@jboss.com>.
Brad O'Hearne wrote:
> After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd just wipe
> my mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can proxy
> requests using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk as an
> integration technique between httpd and tomcat,
Faster up to 50% over mod_proxy by using constant connection pool.
Uses AJP protocol (binary HTTP)
Load balancing
Graceful shutdown of nodes in the cluster
Hot standby
Domain model clustering
> if integration is *not*
> in-process, which I understand is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>
In-process integration is bad idea because most modern web servers
offer so called master-child mechanism, where the master process
monitors the child and recycles it in case of error.
If you put JVM inside web server process address space then you'll
be not able to have load balancing and multiple backend servers, and
if some cgi script kills your web server child process, it will kill
your application server as well.
Apache is using multiple child processes for serving requests, and
that would mean that you would need that many JVM instances.
Prefork mpm or Apache 1.3 creates a separate process for each client
connection, so for 100 concurrent client connections you would
end up with 100 JVM instances.
That's the reason why JNI was usable only on Windows or Netware which
mpm's have a single child process. Even on those, things like
MaxRequestsPerChild 10000 would try to kill the Tomcat after each 1000
requests. Since it would try to start a new instance befor killing the
old one, you'll end up in server crash.
So, totally unusable. Having process separation between web and
application server rises both stability and overall security.
Regards,
Mladen.
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Which direction: mod_jk or mod_proxy_ajp? (was: why use mod_jk?)
Posted by Brad O'Hearne <br...@neurofire.com>.
I suppose this question deserved its own thread. Before I spend any
more time trying to get this configured, I would like to know what is
the best way to proceed: mod_jk or mod_proxy_ajp?
Thanks,
Brad
On Feb 24, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Brad O'Hearne wrote:
> Jess,
>
> Thanks for the reply. Responses below:
>
> On Feb 24, 2006, at 6:51 AM, Jess Holle wrote:
>
>> If you're using Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x, mod_jk is pretty simple
>> overall.
>>
>> No, you don't want to even try in-process stuff and, yes, if you
>> have a firewall in between Apache and Tomcat that drops idle
>> connections you should read carefully (this is covered by the docs).
>>
>> The only big complaint I have is that the mod_jk docs don't make
>> it terribly clear (or didn't last I checked) exactly how to set
>> jvmRoute in Tomcat and how extraordinarily critical this is when
>> doing load balancing. The Tomcat docs don't make this terribly
>> clear either -- apart from a comment in server.xml. Most everyone
>> I know who tries mod_jk load balancing gets hung up on this one
>> point unless/until I give them a detailed explanation. Apart from
>> the lack of clear/obvious information on this in the mod_jk docs
>> (which should include it considering most folk won't think to
>> check both mod_jk and Tomcat docs), this is actually very simple
>> as well, though.
>>
>
> None of the configuration steps in and of itself are difficult.
> Building mod_jk is not difficult. Editing configuration files is
> not difficult. Its after you've put it all together, exactly as
> noted on a hodge-podge of Googled URLs, and it doesn't work, and
> one cryptic line in a log file, and the right connections not being
> made between apache and tomcat, which send you into hours of trial
> and error. With regards to your comments above, I didn't tangle
> with load balancing at all, and apache and tomcat reside on the
> same box, no firewall between them. Yes, you'd think this would be
> simple.
>
>> I am looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp as it is supposed be a tiny
>> bit faster.
>
> You say you are "looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp" -- does this
> mean its not available yet, or you just aren't using it yet? While
> I am glad to learn now of mod_proxy_ajp, I guess this kind of adds
> to my frustration a bit -- what is the way to go now and why:
> mod_proxy_ajp or mod_jk?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Brad
>
>>
>> --
>> Jess Holle
>>
>> Brad O'Hearne wrote:
>>> mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe
>>> that "how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a
>>> mystery / unknown. This seems like it would be question #1 on any
>>> Tomcat FAQ.
>>>
>>> So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a
>>> Tomcat resource which explains the configuration of it?
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Barker wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message news:
>>>> 43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
>>>>
>>>>> After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd
>>>>> just wipe my mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If
>>>>> Apache can proxy requests using mod_proxy, what is the benefit
>>>>> of using mod_jk as an integration technique between httpd and
>>>>> tomcat, if integration is *not* in-process, which I understand
>>>>> is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use
>>>> the term lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it
>>>> doesn't work at all.
>>>>
>>>> You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat
>>>> developers: It is expected that people will migrate to
>>>> mod_proxy_ajp with Httpd 2.2+, and mod_jk is expected to move to
>>>> supporting IIS/SunOne only (and, the later only if somebody
>>>> steps up with interest :).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>.
Brad O'Hearne wrote:
>> I am looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp as it is supposed be a tiny bit
>> faster.
>
> You say you are "looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp" -- does this mean
> its not available yet, or you just aren't using it yet? While I am
> glad to learn now of mod_proxy_ajp, I guess this kind of adds to my
> frustration a bit -- what is the way to go now and why: mod_proxy_ajp
> or mod_jk?
mod_proxy_ajp is only for Apache 2.2 and higher. We're still in the
process of moving to 2.2.
2.2.0 seems good, though, so you could jump right to it if you don't
have other issues.
--
Jess Holle
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Brad O'Hearne <br...@neurofire.com>.
Jess,
Thanks for the reply. Responses below:
On Feb 24, 2006, at 6:51 AM, Jess Holle wrote:
> If you're using Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x, mod_jk is pretty simple
> overall.
>
> No, you don't want to even try in-process stuff and, yes, if you
> have a firewall in between Apache and Tomcat that drops idle
> connections you should read carefully (this is covered by the docs).
>
> The only big complaint I have is that the mod_jk docs don't make it
> terribly clear (or didn't last I checked) exactly how to set
> jvmRoute in Tomcat and how extraordinarily critical this is when
> doing load balancing. The Tomcat docs don't make this terribly
> clear either -- apart from a comment in server.xml. Most everyone
> I know who tries mod_jk load balancing gets hung up on this one
> point unless/until I give them a detailed explanation. Apart from
> the lack of clear/obvious information on this in the mod_jk docs
> (which should include it considering most folk won't think to check
> both mod_jk and Tomcat docs), this is actually very simple as well,
> though.
>
None of the configuration steps in and of itself are difficult.
Building mod_jk is not difficult. Editing configuration files is not
difficult. Its after you've put it all together, exactly as noted on
a hodge-podge of Googled URLs, and it doesn't work, and one cryptic
line in a log file, and the right connections not being made between
apache and tomcat, which send you into hours of trial and error. With
regards to your comments above, I didn't tangle with load balancing
at all, and apache and tomcat reside on the same box, no firewall
between them. Yes, you'd think this would be simple.
> I am looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp as it is supposed be a tiny
> bit faster.
You say you are "looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp" -- does this mean
its not available yet, or you just aren't using it yet? While I am
glad to learn now of mod_proxy_ajp, I guess this kind of adds to my
frustration a bit -- what is the way to go now and why: mod_proxy_ajp
or mod_jk?
Thanks for your help.
Brad
>
> --
> Jess Holle
>
> Brad O'Hearne wrote:
>> mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe
>> that "how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a
>> mystery / unknown. This seems like it would be question #1 on any
>> Tomcat FAQ.
>>
>> So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a
>> Tomcat resource which explains the configuration of it?
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> Bill Barker wrote:
>>
>>> "Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message news:
>>> 43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
>>>
>>>> After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd
>>>> just wipe my mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If
>>>> Apache can proxy requests using mod_proxy, what is the benefit
>>>> of using mod_jk as an integration technique between httpd and
>>>> tomcat, if integration is *not* in-process, which I understand
>>>> is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use
>>> the term lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it
>>> doesn't work at all.
>>>
>>> You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat
>>> developers: It is expected that people will migrate to
>>> mod_proxy_ajp with Httpd 2.2+, and mod_jk is expected to move to
>>> supporting IIS/SunOne only (and, the later only if somebody steps
>>> up with interest :).
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>.
If you're using Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x, mod_jk is pretty simple overall.
No, you don't want to even try in-process stuff and, yes, if you have a
firewall in between Apache and Tomcat that drops idle connections you
should read carefully (this is covered by the docs).
The only big complaint I have is that the mod_jk docs don't make it
terribly clear (or didn't last I checked) exactly how to set jvmRoute in
Tomcat and how extraordinarily critical this is when doing load
balancing. The Tomcat docs don't make this terribly clear either --
apart from a comment in server.xml. Most everyone I know who tries
mod_jk load balancing gets hung up on this one point unless/until I give
them a detailed explanation. Apart from the lack of clear/obvious
information on this in the mod_jk docs (which should include it
considering most folk won't think to check both mod_jk and Tomcat docs),
this is actually very simple as well, though.
I am looking forward to mod_proxy_ajp as it is supposed be a tiny bit
faster.
--
Jess Holle
Brad O'Hearne wrote:
> mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe that
> "how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a mystery /
> unknown. This seems like it would be question #1 on any Tomcat FAQ.
>
> So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a Tomcat
> resource which explains the configuration of it?
>
> Brad
>
>
> Bill Barker wrote:
>
>> "Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
>> news:43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
>>
>>
>>> After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd just
>>> wipe my mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can
>>> proxy requests using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk
>>> as an integration technique between httpd and tomcat, if integration
>>> is *not* in-process, which I understand is not recommended for
>>> Tomcat 5.5?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use the
>> term lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it doesn't
>> work at all.
>>
>> You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat
>> developers: It is expected that people will migrate to mod_proxy_ajp
>> with Httpd 2.2+, and mod_jk is expected to move to supporting
>> IIS/SunOne only (and, the later only if somebody steps up with
>> interest :).
>>
>>
>>
>>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>.
Brad O'Hearne wrote:
> Ok, I understand what it is trying to do here. But I assume there is a
> connector that has to be loaded in Tomcat to enable listening for the
> ajp protocol on port 8009, no? Is there documentation about this
> anywhere?
From Tomcat's side of the connection there is no difference to speak of
between mod_proxy_ajp and mod_jk.
--
Jess Holle
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Feb 24, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Brad O'Hearne wrote:
> Question below:
>
> On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:05 AM, Bill Barker wrote:
>
>>
>> "Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
>> news:43FEC571.60007@neurofire.com...
>>> mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe
>>> that
>>> "how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a mystery /
>>> unknown.
>>> This seems like it would be question #1 on any Tomcat FAQ.
>>>
>>> So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a Tomcat
>>> resource which explains the configuration of it?
>>>
>>
>> Nope, since it all under the Httpd project :). You can start with:
>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html, and then move
>> on to
>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy_ajp.html.
>>
>> The simplest configuration looks like:
>> ProxyPass /myapp ajp://localhost:8009/myapp
>
> Ok, I understand what it is trying to do here. But I assume there
> is a connector that has to be loaded in Tomcat to enable listening
> for the ajp protocol on port 8009, no? Is there documentation about
> this anywhere?
>
On the Tomcat side, there is no difference (really) between
whether the web server is using mod_jk or mod_proxy_ajp.
Both use AJP for the link, so you'd use the AJP connector.
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Brad O'Hearne <br...@neurofire.com>.
Question below:
On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:05 AM, Bill Barker wrote:
>
> "Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
> news:43FEC571.60007@neurofire.com...
>> mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe
>> that
>> "how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a mystery /
>> unknown.
>> This seems like it would be question #1 on any Tomcat FAQ.
>>
>> So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a Tomcat
>> resource which explains the configuration of it?
>>
>
> Nope, since it all under the Httpd project :). You can start with:
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html, and then move
> on to
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy_ajp.html.
>
> The simplest configuration looks like:
> ProxyPass /myapp ajp://localhost:8009/myapp
Ok, I understand what it is trying to do here. But I assume there is
a connector that has to be loaded in Tomcat to enable listening for
the ajp protocol on port 8009, no? Is there documentation about this
anywhere?
Brad
>
>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> Bill Barker wrote:
>>
>>> "Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
>>> news:43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
>>>
>>>> After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd
>>>> just wipe my
>>>> mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can proxy
>>>> requests
>>>> using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk as an
>>>> integration
>>>> technique between httpd and tomcat, if integration is *not* in-
>>>> process,
>>>> which I understand is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use
>>> the term
>>> lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it doesn't work
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat
>>> developers: It
>>> is expected that people will migrate to mod_proxy_ajp with Httpd
>>> 2.2+, and
>>> mod_jk is expected to move to supporting IIS/SunOne only (and,
>>> the later
>>> only if somebody steps up with interest :).
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Bill Barker <wb...@wilshire.com>.
"Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
news:43FEC571.60007@neurofire.com...
> mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe that
> "how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a mystery / unknown.
> This seems like it would be question #1 on any Tomcat FAQ.
>
> So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a Tomcat
> resource which explains the configuration of it?
>
Nope, since it all under the Httpd project :). You can start with:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html, and then move on to
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy_ajp.html.
The simplest configuration looks like:
ProxyPass /myapp ajp://localhost:8009/myapp
> Brad
>
>
> Bill Barker wrote:
>
>>"Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
>>news:43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
>>
>>>After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd just wipe my
>>>mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can proxy requests
>>>using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk as an integration
>>>technique between httpd and tomcat, if integration is *not* in-process,
>>>which I understand is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use the term
>>lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it doesn't work at all.
>>
>>You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat developers: It
>>is expected that people will migrate to mod_proxy_ajp with Httpd 2.2+, and
>>mod_jk is expected to move to supporting IIS/SunOne only (and, the later
>>only if somebody steps up with interest :).
>>
>>
>>>Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Brad O'Hearne <br...@neurofire.com>.
mod_proxy_ajp? Yet another twist. Its just hard for me to believe that
"how do I integrate tomcat and apache httpd?" is such a mystery /
unknown. This seems like it would be question #1 on any Tomcat FAQ.
So where can I found out more about mod_proxy_ajp. Is there a Tomcat
resource which explains the configuration of it?
Brad
Bill Barker wrote:
>"Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
>news:43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
>
>
>>After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd just wipe my
>>mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can proxy requests
>>using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk as an integration
>>technique between httpd and tomcat, if integration is *not* in-process,
>>which I understand is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use the term
>lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it doesn't work at all.
>
>You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat developers: It is
>expected that people will migrate to mod_proxy_ajp with Httpd 2.2+, and
>mod_jk is expected to move to supporting IIS/SunOne only (and, the later
>only if somebody steps up with interest :).
>
>
>
>>Brad
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: why use mod_jk?
Posted by Bill Barker <wb...@wilshire.com>.
"Brad O'Hearne" <br...@neurofire.com> wrote in message
news:43FEBA07.3020707@neurofire.com...
> After wasting time trying to configure mod_jk, I thought I'd just wipe my
> mind free and just play dumb for a moment. If Apache can proxy requests
> using mod_proxy, what is the benefit of using mod_jk as an integration
> technique between httpd and tomcat, if integration is *not* in-process,
> which I understand is not recommended for Tomcat 5.5?
>
Actually, in-process with mod_jk is only supported (and, I use the term
lightly :) for TC 3.3.x. For any higher versions it doesn't work at all.
You've managed to grasp the deep, dark plan of the Tomcat developers: It is
expected that people will migrate to mod_proxy_ajp with Httpd 2.2+, and
mod_jk is expected to move to supporting IIS/SunOne only (and, the later
only if somebody steps up with interest :).
> Brad
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