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Posted to dev@plc4x.apache.org by Julian Feinauer <j....@pragmaticminds.de> on 2019/07/01 06:50:08 UTC

Re: [DOCUMENTATION] Suggestion for improving documentation making it more accessible

Hi all,
hi Lukas,

excellent idea (fully agree with Chris).
We at pi where pretty busy with our representation at the fair last week... so now everything is going back to normal and one can hope, to see more from us on the lists again : )

Julian

Am 28.06.19, 19:12 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:

    Hi Lukas
    
    10000000 +1 to that.
    
    Great suggestions!
    
    I'm currently digging some holes and trenches in my front yard, but I'll get back to you more detailed as soon as I don't have mud and dirt on my fingers... You know... Macs keyboards don't like that 😉
    
    Chris
    
    Holen Sie sichOutlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
    
    ________________________________
    From: Lukas Ott <ot...@gmail.com>
    Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 9:51:23 AM
    To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
    Subject: [DOCUMENTATION] Suggestion for improving documentation making it more accessible
    
    Hi all,
    
    I am Lukas. I met some of you at the PLC4X Top Level Party in Frankfurt,
    Germany.
    
    As i am not a fulltime developer (some Python scripting excluding) I am
    struggling a lot with the documentation. How to start improving a
    documentation when you do not know how to start?
    
    So my suggestion / idea to the PLC4X Team is the following:
    
    1) I setup a clean VM (e.g. with Ubuntu) .
    
    2)  We setup a websession, which we record and install PLC4X from a users
    perspectice (me) and a developer from the PLC4X team who is willing to walk
    me through it. (I assume 1 to max 2h session)
    
    3) We install some virtual runtime PLCs to connect to (as this helps to
    just learn an test in one environment and helps beginners like me to
    experiment without asking for access to PLC4X VPN which only increases
    effort for Chris and his employer.
    -> My suggestion here is: https://www.openplcproject.com/ Where you can
    easily create a HelloWorld PLC Programm using MODBUS as Protocol.
    And https://open62541.org/ (OPC UA) -> Easy to setup Server and yes I know
    Chris is not a fan of OPC UA.
    Other suggestions? Concerning virtual PLC Runtime environments? for Testing
    and Learning how to use PLC4X?
    
    4) create a "Hello-World" Programm (currently in Java right?) using
    Intellij IDEA as IDE connecting to the local runtimes PLCs.
    
    Addionally we save what will be put into the console/ terminal - to enable
    me to right a Getting Started Guide for Beginners like .
    
    5) Take the recorded session (eventually edit it) and put it somewhere
    (PLC4X Youtube Channel? - private Youtube Channel? - To be disscussed.
    
    What do you think?
    
    Best
    
    *Lukas Ott*
    Business Analyst
    
    Industry Consulting Manufacturing - North and Central Europe
    DXC Technology <http://www.dxc.technology/de/>
    
    Hewlett-Packard-Str. 1, 61352 Bad Homburg, Germany
    
    M: +49.173.705.2298 | lott3@dxc.com | LinkedIn
    <https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukas-ott> | Twitter Me
    <https://twitter.com/rochbenritter>

Re: [DOCUMENTATION] Suggestion for improving documentation making it more accessible

Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi all,

ok ... so I just finished what I was working on for the past week or so and now will try to add a more detailed response :-)

First off all, thank you for your email. It was very helpful. Especially your suggestion with a simulator. 
Being so focused on Siemens devices I must have completely lost track of the idea that simulators for other systems could be available.
The Siemens PLC Simulators are some times more expensive as the real PLCs, which is sort of nuts.

Perhaps we should start searching and evaluating PLC simulators a little more. 
Your OpenPLC project suggestion is definitely something we should investigate.

Regarding a Docker image with installed PLC4X: This is not quite how PLC4X works. You can't really install it like you would install ordinary software.
It's more to be thought of as a Library, which you can use to build applications. 
We do have multiple examples in our repo, which demonstrate how to do so for the various types of frameworks PLC4X supports.

But I think I would be a good Idea to provide some pre-configured VMs or containers that provide a pre-configured simulation system.
Then we would update the examples to work on these systems and document how to do so.

Then we could create some videos, as you suggested and publish them. 

I think this would really simplify getting started for new people. 

So who on this list knows about PLC simulators with nice licensing that would allow creating such images. 

Also should we discuss how we would be allowed to publish such VM images. I know this is sort of a topic at the ASF.
Feedback is greatly appreciated for this too.

Chris


Am 01.07.19, 08:50 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" <j....@pragmaticminds.de>:

    Hi all,
    hi Lukas,
    
    excellent idea (fully agree with Chris).
    We at pi where pretty busy with our representation at the fair last week... so now everything is going back to normal and one can hope, to see more from us on the lists again : )
    
    Julian
    
    Am 28.06.19, 19:12 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
    
        Hi Lukas
        
        10000000 +1 to that.
        
        Great suggestions!
        
        I'm currently digging some holes and trenches in my front yard, but I'll get back to you more detailed as soon as I don't have mud and dirt on my fingers... You know... Macs keyboards don't like that 😉
        
        Chris
        
        Holen Sie sichOutlook für Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
        
        ________________________________
        From: Lukas Ott <ot...@gmail.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 9:51:23 AM
        To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
        Subject: [DOCUMENTATION] Suggestion for improving documentation making it more accessible
        
        Hi all,
        
        I am Lukas. I met some of you at the PLC4X Top Level Party in Frankfurt,
        Germany.
        
        As i am not a fulltime developer (some Python scripting excluding) I am
        struggling a lot with the documentation. How to start improving a
        documentation when you do not know how to start?
        
        So my suggestion / idea to the PLC4X Team is the following:
        
        1) I setup a clean VM (e.g. with Ubuntu) .
        
        2)  We setup a websession, which we record and install PLC4X from a users
        perspectice (me) and a developer from the PLC4X team who is willing to walk
        me through it. (I assume 1 to max 2h session)
        
        3) We install some virtual runtime PLCs to connect to (as this helps to
        just learn an test in one environment and helps beginners like me to
        experiment without asking for access to PLC4X VPN which only increases
        effort for Chris and his employer.
        -> My suggestion here is: https://www.openplcproject.com/ Where you can
        easily create a HelloWorld PLC Programm using MODBUS as Protocol.
        And https://open62541.org/ (OPC UA) -> Easy to setup Server and yes I know
        Chris is not a fan of OPC UA.
        Other suggestions? Concerning virtual PLC Runtime environments? for Testing
        and Learning how to use PLC4X?
        
        4) create a "Hello-World" Programm (currently in Java right?) using
        Intellij IDEA as IDE connecting to the local runtimes PLCs.
        
        Addionally we save what will be put into the console/ terminal - to enable
        me to right a Getting Started Guide for Beginners like .
        
        5) Take the recorded session (eventually edit it) and put it somewhere
        (PLC4X Youtube Channel? - private Youtube Channel? - To be disscussed.
        
        What do you think?
        
        Best
        
        *Lukas Ott*
        Business Analyst
        
        Industry Consulting Manufacturing - North and Central Europe
        DXC Technology <http://www.dxc.technology/de/>
        
        Hewlett-Packard-Str. 1, 61352 Bad Homburg, Germany
        
        M: +49.173.705.2298 | lott3@dxc.com | LinkedIn
        <https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukas-ott> | Twitter Me
        <https://twitter.com/rochbenritter>